LSD Guide Summaries

[Highlandor]

Highlander its because they use different means to achieve the same thing. The GT LSD doesn't replicate any of them in particular, rather it replicates all of them.

Cool - no worries 👍

Another presumption (off topic though), I'm guessing this is the same situation as with the brakes - Polyphony attempted to put everything together 'as one' and done as good a job as they thought they could do, or had time / resource for (or there was some other kind of reason for the limitation), possibly??

Rather than going down the real life route and having many different types or options.

I don't know anything about LSDs in real life, but I've uprated the brakes on my car, I know there are different pads, discs and calipers, also different materials, sizes and types (i.e. discs) etc etc - but in GT5 we get nothing like this.

There must be a reason for this as other area's of the game there are options available i.e. engine tuning, suspension, tyres, aero. The lack of options for the brakes is detrimental to the credibility of the game (in my opinion) as this is such a large, or important, factor when modifying a car in real life, either for street use or especially track use, which is what GT5 is all about as there's no free roam.

I guess maybe they had a cut off point somewhere and the brakes and LSD's were on the wrong side of it (for us anyway, in my opinion).

I don't know how much is possible on a video game on a console though, there's probably a good reason that I know nothing about that maybe meant this is why GT5 is like this.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Cool - no worries 👍

Another presumption (off topic though), I'm guessing this is the same situation as with the brakes - Polyphony attempted to put everything together 'as one' and done as good a job as they thought they could do, or had time / resource for (or there was some other kind of reason for the limitation), possibly??

Rather than going down the real life route and having many different types or options.

I don't know anything about LSDs in real life, but I've uprated the brakes on my car, I know there are different pads, discs and calipers, also different materials, sizes and types (i.e. discs) etc etc - but in GT5 we get nothing like this.

There must be a reason for this as other area's of the game there are options available i.e. engine tuning, suspension, tyres, aero. The lack of options for the brakes is detrimental to the credibility of the game (in my opinion) as this is such a large, or important, factor when modifying a car in real life, either for street use or especially track use, which is what GT5 is all about as there's no free roam.

I guess maybe they had a cut off point somewhere and the brakes and LSD's were on the wrong side of it (for us anyway, in my opinion).

I don't know how much is possible on a video game on a console though, there's probably a good reason that I know nothing about that maybe meant this is why GT5 is like this.

Yeah, there is a reason. No fade.

You probably noticed IRL if you get a little "Spirited" with your driving, the brake pedal gets a little soft. If you keep driving hard and pushing the brakes they can fade out, your foot on floor, no braking forces slowing down the car.

We upgrade the brakes to reduce their tendency to fade out under hard use. Pads that operate stable at high temps, disks that use drill holes for heat and slots for pad dust all to keep the brakes stable and operating regularly under high temps.

On the track some aggressive brake sets ups don't even work well until they are heated up to op temp.

GT doesn't simulate brake fade, making anything beyond a sensitivity adjustment useless and pointless. Even drum brakes, it all makes no difference without any fade.

In GT the brakes never get to what would be considered "operating" temp and so they don't feel right, way too grabby lap after lap.

PD just isn't charging us Cr for a bunch of stuff to get the ability to adjust sensitivity. I wish they just did a little better job on the brake physics.

 

[Highlandor]

True, brake fade isn't represented in the game, but then again it wasn't in GT4 either but we still had 2 brake upgrades we could purchase for some cars (others had these as standard - I think).

There were also different LSD's aswell in GT4, albiet the 'same' LSD but either a simplified version (one way), a full custom one and I think there was a third aswell - not actual different types which were highlighted on another thread here, somewhere.

I understand what your saying, my point was a general one though, it seems strange that these two area's of car modification has been 'grouped' together when other aspects of tuning / modifying a car in GT5 are covered in more detail, with more options.

I don't like to say "compared to real life" as I think that will open up a huge can of worms. Different people have different experiences of motorsports and tuning / modifying cars in real life, so opinions would be subjective and potentially end up turning this thread into another riot..which I think was the whole point the OP started this thread, to avoid this.

Maybe I'm just going down a dead end road (or more likely, just look at things differently or from the wrong perspective), I'm sure this has been covered 100 times already aswell - therefore, point closed on my behalf.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Yeah, we got ripped off in GT4. PD just finally decided to stop charging us for nothing. Well they could of charged us for the controller, but I guess it's them giving us a gift after years of ripping us off. lol.

 

[Basilea]

Some thoughts on LSD settings. If you drive with ABS (1 or higher) there is almost no reason for changing the decel! I just set it to 5 and that is fine with all cars... I believe decel is only needed when driving without ABS or what car do I have to buy to find out that I'm wrong with this conclusion on decel?

Initial and Accel still are a bit unclear (a lot)... it has to do with tyres... on comforts/sports you can't have the same LSD setting as with racing tyres!

For example, playing around with a Clio on racing softs, first I looked at the stock LSD that has 7/30/15. Changed the decel to 5. On exit the outside tyre burns so I lowered the accel to 22 and that was fine, then I changed to sport soft and the outside tyre burns again, till I lowered accel to around 15... then I just decided to start tuning on racing softs...

On racing softs I can set Initial up to 60 and Accel to 5 and I don't have any wheelspin or tyre burning at all... the same result with both inital and accel at 60! If I set initial at 5 then I can't go up to 60 for accel or the outside wheel is burning, to get rid of that I need a accel of around 15-25! I can't see a big difference in handling for the Clio either way, maybe slightly more oversteer (what I think the car needs) the higher the initial is...

Now, what is the best in this case? 60/60/5 or 60/5/5 or 5/~20/5

 

[Motor City Hami]

what car do I have to buy to find out that I'm wrong with this conclusion on decel?

Try a Shelby GT500. I needed to bump up decel a bit even with ABS one. The Formula Gran Turismo also needed some stability help under braking. And, it's been a while since I touched this car, but try a maxed out Toyota GT1.

I do agree with you that most cars can get away with decel between 5 and 10 and often 5 is enough.

 

[Basilea]

Ok the Shelby GT350? is a horribly unstable car, that possible needs more decel! I somewhere else said I might try tuning that one after I'm better at it but this could take some time and then we have GT6 or so...

What do you think on the initial and accel for the clio? Would you go with the highest possible initial, as it gives traction and fit accel to something reasonable? Or leave accel at 5? I have to test again on some different tracks...

 

[Motor City Hami]

Ok the Shelby GT350? is a horribly unstable car, that possible needs more decel! I somewhere else said I might try tuning that one after I'm better at it but this could take some time and then we have GT6 or so...

What do you think on the initial and accel for the clio? Would you go with the highest possible initial, as it gives traction and fit accel to something reasonable? Or leave accel at 5? I have to test again on some different tracks...

I just tuned the Shelby GT500 and really like that car now. Feel free to borrow my LSD settings as your starting point. I am at 30/30/10. Tune posted in my garage.

As for initial and accel, there seems to be a wide range of success from many of the respected tuners on GTP. I can't make really high settings work for my driving style. I don't like the mid corner to exit understeer that higher numbers seem to bring. I'd rather have a car jump off the corner and get back to throttle as close to apex as possible. I'm one of the traditionally low LSD tuners. A few other tuners who I have respect for are traditionally higher LSD tuners.

One thing I have noticed about LSDs, the really fast tuners are rarely at the absolute max or minimum of the accel or initial settings. I don't see very many tunes with 5 or 60 initial or accel. I would recommend that you avoid testing one far extreme vs. the other. Try comparing 10 and 40 or 15 and 30 or even 10 and 20 or 40 vs 50. I think you will learn more of what works for you by playing around in the middle for a while, then let things drift toward whichever end you are seeing the most improvement. With my style, I tend to start low and work my way up until the car is tuned. Just what's working for me.

 

[Basilea]

I just tuned the Shelby GT500 and really like that car now. Feel free to borrow my LSD settings as your starting point. I am at 30/30/10. Tune posted in my garage.

As for initial and accel, there seems to be a wide range of success from many of the respected tuners on GTP. I can't make really high settings work for my driving style. I don't like the mid corner to exit understeer that higher numbers seem to bring. I'd rather have a car jump off the corner and get back to throttle as close to apex as possible. I'm one of the traditionally low LSD tuners. A few other tuners who I have respect for are traditionally higher LSD tuners.

One thing I have noticed about LSDs, the really fast tuners are rarely at the absolute max or minimum of the accel or initial settings. I don't see very many tunes with 5 or 60 initial or accel. I would recommend that you avoid testing one far extreme vs. the other. Try comparing 10 and 40 or 15 and 30 or even 10 and 20 or 40 vs 50. I think you will learn more of what works for you by playing around in the middle for a while, then let things drift toward whichever end you are seeing the most improvement. With my style, I tend to start low and work my way up until the car is tuned. Just what's working for me.

I think I give the Shelby a go tomorrow...

I normally tend to use very low LSD settings! Look at my Mugen Civic with a 8/16/5 and I only have it that high because it looks/feels wrong compared to tunes around here, to have it at 5/15/5... I also have a bit the impresion that initial at 5 gives less acceleration/power feel of a car.

With the accel I also think to work my way up... if it is too low the inside wheel spins then the good spot comes and after that the outside wheel spins/burns... but then initial comes into play and can make everything useless, that's how it looks for the Renault Clio...

 

[Motor City Hami]

Don't know why this thread hasn't been made a sticky yet. What does it take to get a sticky on something so useful and so often requested?

 

[Motor City Hami]

Added praiano63 thoeries on LSDs.

 

[nomis3613]

Hi Motor City Hami,
Can I please change my mind about Initial??

I've done some more testing and I'd like my Initial summary changed to this, please:
LSD Initial
- higher = smoother handling, more stability and sometimes more traction
- lower = "edgier" handling, sometimes less traction

Thanks,
Simon

(PS I am still planning to try out your tuning guide soon...sorry for the delay...)

 

[Motor City Hami]

Made edits to both nomis and powerdome LSD thoeries in the OP.

Still don't know why this thread isn't a sticky. Do I need to donate money to the site to make that happen?

 

[dr_slump]

Made edits to both nomis and powerdome LSD thoeries in the OP.

Still don't know why this thread isn't a sticky. Do I need to donate money to the site to make that happen?

No!
Just ask a mod and pray! If he likes it = sticky, if not........ .

 

[Highlandor]

As I said on page 2, all credit to Motor City Hami for this thread, absolutely agree this should be a sticky, but I guess with it being listed in the "tuning guide" thread (that's already stickied) - I'm presuming the mods consider it already stickied...

Either way, I'd like to pay thanks, once again, for Motor City Hami for doing this.

👍

 

[Motor City Hami]

Added Jackthalad thoery of the LSD.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Added CSLACR, Lambob and MrGrado. Any other tuners wishing to have their LSD thoery added to the op, let me know.

 

[CSLACR]

Updated for a bit of clarity, if only a little.

LSD
Initial: How quickly the LSD activates once it senses wheel spin, meaning a low setting allows lots of wheel spin before "turning on", and a high setting "turns on" almost immediately.
Accel: Affects on-throttle driving. When you're on the throttle, this determines how much faster either wheel is "allowed" to spin more then the other. A low setting will allow you to bake the inside tire exiting corners, a high setting will bake the outside tire.
Decel: Same as accel, but only works when completely off the throttle. The greatest effect of LSD decel is seen when downshifting hard entering a corner on the brakes, though it affects the car whether on the brakes or not.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Updated the OP.

 

[nomis3613]

Motor City Hami, might I highjack for a sec please?

Decel: Same as accel, but only works when completely off the throttle. The greatest effect of LSD decel is seen when downshifting hard entering a corner on the brakes, though it affects the car whether on the brakes or not.

CSLACR, I'd be interested to hear if you've been able to roast the outside wheel using LSD decel. I've never seen LSD decel affect tyre heat under braking.

Cheers,
Simon

 

[CSLACR]

Motor City Hami, might I highjack for a sec please?



CSLACR, I'd be interested to hear if you've been able to roast the outside wheel using LSD decel. I've never seen LSD decel affect tyre heat under braking.

Cheers,
Simon

Depends on the car. It's certainly possible, I reckon setting it high on an F1 car and hard downshifting would do it. Of course you'll probably spin out too.

You have to remember, the decel is powered by "engine braking", which has substantially less power then, umm, the engine. I'm sure if you could apply 400HP of deceleration power, you could get the inside or outside cooking entering turns.

 

[nomis3613]

Thanks CSLACR. Woops, I always forget that it's more to do with engine braking than "brakes braking"!

 

[Blkracer X]

Howdy all,

Total newbie to the forum.....been looking form the outside finally decided to step in. My 1st question is what are the differences for a online tune vs a offline tune? I've downloaded some tuning guides and such so I've got some reading to do but also how would a tune differ from a "sticks" driver and a "wheeled" (which is the only way to drive) driver? I was racing online with some "clean" drivers speced cars and I was left wonder which way they went lol. So I understand they probably had their cars tuned but how would I decern which tune ........I understand some tunes are meant for certain tracks........just trying to understand what I need to do to achieve competitiveness while racing online.

Thanks in advance to any and all that respond.

 

[dr_slump]

It usually only affects suspension.
My LSD setting looks online and offline almost the same, only minor adjustements needed.

Of course, if you change the suspension, another LSD setting could be needed then. But the way I tune it, is quite the same.

 

[Motor City Hami]

It usually only affects suspension.
My LSD setting looks online and offline almost the same, only minor adjustements needed.

Of course, if you change the suspension, another LSD setting could be needed then. But the way I tune it, is quite the same.

I'm a little different than the Dr. I find that I raise my LSD settings for online and lower them for offline. Suspension stays pretty much the same; sometimes adjusting for a little more rear grip on FR and MR cars.

 

[jakobstrikea]

Motor City Hami, thank you very much for tune of Nissan R390 Road Car. With your settings I improve my time with almost 1,5 sec. Thank you again.

 

[bread82]

Hi All,

My first post here, though I've been reading the various threads on LSD settings for a while. Its been interesting looking into real-life LSD workings and then trying to fathom how/if this applies in GT.

A couple of "real life" links I've found useful:

www.cuscousainc.com/pdf/CUSCO_LSD_GUIDE.pdf

http://www.limited-slip.com/

Fig.7,11 and 13 in the cusco pdf show effect of initial Tq, % of lock, and cam angle...
I'm wondering if the accel/decel sens in GT% are the same as shown either on the % lock graph or the cam angle one..?

Also several links i've read (game and RL) seem to talk about the initial Tq as the point at which the LSD is "activated", but then disagree on what happens at a lower Tq than this. i.e. when the LSD is "inactive".

Some say that below this Init Tq the LSD behaves as fully locked, and you need to exceed this Tq before the LSD allows any slip, at which point the LSD starts to partition the Tq according its accel/decel settings
http://www.racer.nl/tutorial/differentials.htm

Others ( I don't have a link to hand) seem to think that the LSD is completely open until init Tq is reached, at which point it starts to partition the Tq...

Hope people find these links useful.

Cheers,

Bread

 

[CSLACR]

The LSD is absolutely NOT locked while the LSD is inactive.
Real world driving would be next to impossible with a locked differential.

 

[Lambob]

^ Bread82, thanks for the link to http://www.cuscousainc.com/pdf/CUSCO_LSD_GUIDE.pdf

Figure 7 is an excellent representation to show how IT works in this game, where a higher setting, already has some preloaded "limited slip" in effect (shows as approx %40), and has a milder slope with throttle modulation, thus why it makes for a smoother driving experience on the Nur for me.

great find. it was a good read, and shows more how GT5 is actually probably using actual "throttle" position, in regards to Engine RPM/Torque being produced, to translate how the LSD is functioning at any given time.

Time to get some clubsport pedals.

 

[CSLACR]

^ Bread82, thanks for the link to http://www.cuscousainc.com/pdf/CUSCO_LSD_GUIDE.pdf

Figure 7 is an excellent representation to show how IT works in this game, where a higher setting, already has some preloaded "limited slip" in effect (shows as approx %40), and has a milder slope with throttle modulation, thus why it makes for a smoother driving experience on the Nur for me.

great find. it was a good read, and shows more how GT5 is actually probably using actual "throttle" position, in regards to Engine RPM/Torque being produced, to translate how the LSD is functioning at any given time.

Time to get some clubsport pedals.

GT5 doesn't go by throttle position though, I don't believe.
Clubsports sound good though.