LSD settings help

[P0UP0N]

I have been a player since the first GT but, I have never used an LSD in any of my setups basically due to lack of understanding. Apex isn't much help either so I thought I would try to get some answers here. Can someone give me a run-down on how to use this device? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm not big on other people's setups due to the fact that they don't fit my particular driving style and are usually slower than what I can produce from the car myself. Thanks in advance!

 

[JackWilson]

I also would like help understanding as its the only part of tuning i do not understand. Help will be much appreciayed.

 

[oppositelock]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=159383#post4538450

 

[P0UP0N]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=159383#post4538450

That was not much help but, thanks anyway... What I am looking for is how it affects my setup, not a blueprint.

 

[oppositelock]

That was not much help but, thanks anyway... What I am looking for is how it affects my setup, not a blueprint.

You're going to get 500 different answers on that. Someone will say high settings cause instability and then someone else will say the opposite. Someone will say you need a high initial and then someone else will say low is best. I'm giving you the tools to make up your own mind. If you don't want to put forth the effort and expect "the answer" on a silver platter, good luck.

 

[P0UP0N]

WOW! For a second there, I thought I was at GameFaqs...

What I meant by starting this thread was to get an understanding on what the settings actually do to the car itself. I did happen across a GT4 LSD guide from Scaff:

Initial Torque Settings
Opening (lower values) Improves the cars manoeuvrability. Reduces the effect of the accel. and decel. LSD settings.
Locking (higher values) Increase the effect of the accel and decel LSD settings up to a point, after which the effect will decrease. Reduces the cars manouverability.

Accel. Settings
Locking (higher value) Increases traction out of corners by limiting wheel spin. Limits the car’s ability to turn, particularly in tight corners.
Opening (lower value) Reduces traction out of corners by increasing the chances of wheel spin. Improves the car’s ability to turn, particularly in tight corners.

Decel Settings
Locking (higher value) Increases stability when decelerating into a corner. Limits the car’s ability to turn.
Opening (lower value) Reduces stability when decelerating into a corner. Improves the car’s ability to turn.



If I have wasted your time, well...

 

[oppositelock]

Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick. It's just that there's been a dozen LSD threads and and they all end up the same. Scaff's guide is about as good you're going to find, even though I disagree with some of it.

 

[Adrenaline]

OppositeLock is correct. Far too many good tuners disagree about how it works in relation to results in game.
There is no definite answer, plain and simple.

Scaff's simple explanation seems pretty on point, but I know many people who say they experience the exact opposite of what he's written.

 

[aga080]

what i want to know: does setting all of the values to 60-60-60 make for a locked differential?

 

[shirakawaa]

what i want to know: does setting all of the values to 60-60-60 make for a locked differential?

No, I think not. Personally, I take "60" on braking and acceleration settings as 60% locked.
The differential never feels completely locked to me with that setting.

By the way, according to how the differential works in GT5, a differential locking the most in most situations would have a 5/60/60 setting. With a 60 setting for initial torque it would start locking only when much torque is applied to it.

 

[budious]

Your car doesn't feel a bit schizoid on 60-60-60? Generally, when I have tried strange combinations of absurdly higher LSD settings together the cars begin to demonstrated jittery snapping motions like Skid Recovery Force is constantly on (it is off) and is repeatedly being counter punched by each side into making the car drive in a straight line.

 

[niky]

5-60-60 is the closest you can get to completely locked, and even then, it only locks up once you've passed the torque threshold.

The answer will vary depending on who you ask and what car you're using, how much power it's making and what tires are on it. The only way to make sure it's right is to use the exact same car and set-up as the tuner you're following or Do-It-Yourself by testing it at a track with the car in question.

 

[budious]

I also noticed 60-5-5 also seems to work as initial 60 naturally overrides the others anyways.

 

[P0UP0N]

This is the discussion I was hoping for! Another question: Is it worth the effort to put an LSD in your ride? I can see some advantages to using the LSD but, I also see some disadvantages as well.

Oppositelock - I meant no offense in any way, I am just trying to get the most out of my tunes.

 

[Adrenaline]

I wouldn't waste time, with any tune that didn't utilize LSD.

 

[budious]

I wouldn't waste time, with any tune that didn't utilize LSD.

I agree, when a tune has an FC LSD with defaults 10/40/20 you're almost better off to try the stock one. Also, some cars have better drivetrain components stock than others, so in some cases you can be downgrading a more sophisticated system that is stock.

 

[oppositelock]

The adjustable LSD can definitely hurt more than help if you don't know how to use it. AWD cars in particular can suffer greatly, even with the default settings. After checking the values of some of the stock diffs it appears most of them are actually pretty decent. It also looks like every car comes equipped with an LSD whether they have one in real life or not. For a lot of people who aren't that into tuning the stock diffs might be the best bet.

 

[budious]

It also looks like every car comes equipped with an LSD whether they have one in real life or not. For a lot of people who aren't that into tuning the stock diffs might be the best bet.

Many of the old cars will come without one, 0/0/0 settings across the board. However other cars, think it was an RX-7 model, might have an LSD with a value of 50/80/0, which I would assume the latter brake 0 is overridden by initial 50 anyways.

 

[P0UP0N]

I wouldn't waste time, with any tune that didn't utilize LSD.

Online setup with the Amuse RS380 (495hp) around Deep Forest without LSD is 1.11.8 - I will put an FC LSD on and see what I come up with over the next few days. Maybe I can find a happy medium in there with it.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Online setup with the Amuse RS380 (495hp) around Deep Forest without LSD is 1.11.8 - I will put an FC LSD on and see what I come up with over the next few days. Maybe I can find a happy medium in there with it.

He means actually tuning the FC LSD. Using the stock diff can allow values or behaviours that cannot be reproduced with the FC LSD and is therefore at times the better option; but 10/40/20 (default FC LSD setting) is usually useless. Any tuner who's putting something out worth anything will usually know how to tune an LSD rather than leaving it entirely default.

 

[SS_1182]

5-60-60 is the closest you can get to completely locked, and even then, it only locks up once you've passed the torque threshold.

This reflects my own experiences.

 

[Scottster]

To fully understand how to adjust the LSD, one must realize this tuning aspect deals entirely in ratios, NOT absolutes.

For example, A setting of 50/40/40 (not a suggestion, just for discussion), will react differently in a car that weighs 1800kg, vs a car that weighs 1100kg.

Get ready to copy and paste...


LSD TUNING FORMULA:

1) Baseline for LSD Initial Torque Setting:

Convert kg to lb

Baseline Initial Torque setting /2.2 = baseline quotient of combination.
hp/wght ratio

For Example we will use the M3 BMW with LSD settings 50/40/40. "50" is the baseline setting. The BMW weighs 1120kg (2464lbs) and has 677hp. This equates to a 3.6 hp/wght ratio in pounds.

50/3.6=13.89 13.89/2.2= 6.313

This number (6.313) is very important. If we want another vehicle's differential to react like the BMW's, the first step is to find the acceleration setting number that matches 6.313 as close as possible in the new car's hp/weight ratio formula.

For example, The ZR1 Vette weighs 1100kg (2420lbs) with 905hp which equates to a 2.4 hp/wght ratio.

SO,

33/2.4= 13.75/2.2 = 6.25. This is as close as we are going to get with the vette.

2)Baselining Acceleration and Braking.

Now we know what the Initial Torque setting is, we need to match the accel and brake settings. Now, we need to multiply 33 by .8 (the difference between our Torque, and brake in this example, from our initial accel setting of 50). This gives us 26.4.

So the baseline LSD for the Vette is 34/26/26.

I must reiterate, the "6.313" number is not a recommended baseline number I use. I have given you the formula to baseline your set ups off of an LSD setting you like in one car with a certain hp/wght ratio, and have the LSD perform close in a different car with a totally different hp/wght ratio.

Hope this helps.

 

[Adrenaline]

My understanding of LSD is minimal, so take the following with that in mind...
But... That theory seems as if it completely ignores front to back weight ratio.
Are you implying that an LSD set up I like on a car with a 60/40 weight ratio, will preform the same way, when (mathematically calculated and) installed onto a car that carries a 40/60 weight ratio?

It also ignores any form of downforce, spring rates, shocks or other components that come into play when considering tire grip and weight transfer throughout all stages of a corner.

Obviously you're just trying to provide a 'baseline' and while it seems like a decent theory at face value, I remain a skeptic. But I'm more than willing to listen and learn if you can explain where my doubts are unwarranted.

 

[Poppins]

WOW! For a second there, I thought I was at GameFaqs...

What I meant by starting this thread was to get an understanding on what the settings actually do to the car itself. I did happen across a GT4 LSD guide from Scaff:

Initial Torque Settings
Opening (lower values) Improves the cars manoeuvrability. Reduces the effect of the accel. and decel. LSD settings.
Locking (higher values) Increase the effect of the accel and decel LSD settings up to a point, after which the effect will decrease. Reduces the cars manouverability.

Accel. Settings
Locking (higher value) Increases traction out of corners by limiting wheel spin. Limits the car’s ability to turn, particularly in tight corners.
Opening (lower value) Reduces traction out of corners by increasing the chances of wheel spin. Improves the car’s ability to turn, particularly in tight corners.

Decel Settings
Locking (higher value) Increases stability when decelerating into a corner. Limits the car’s ability to turn.
Opening (lower value) Reduces stability when decelerating into a corner. Improves the car’s ability to turn.



If I have wasted your time, well...

Low initial torque makes the diff lock faster (wheel will lock after getting more than 5% torque) . High initial torque makes it not lock up until 60% of torque is transmitted through the one wheel.

 

[Scottster]

My understanding of LSD is minimal, so take the following with that in mind...
But... That theory seems as if it completely ignores front to back weight ratio.
Are you implying that an LSD set up I like on a car with a 60/40 weight ratio, will preform the same way, when (mathematically calculated and) installed onto a car that carries a 40/60 weight ratio?

It also ignores any form of downforce, spring rates, shocks or other components that come into play when considering tire grip and weight transfer throughout all stages of a corner.

Obviously you're just trying to provide a 'baseline' and while it seems like a decent theory at face value, I remain a skeptic. But I'm more than willing to listen and learn if you can explain where my doubts are unwarranted.

For FR and MR vehicles this formula has been very consistent for me. Yes it is a baseline but I very rarely have to move the Initial Torque or Brake more than +/- 1 step.

In regards to the weight ratio's, that is when I tinker with the Comp and Ext of the shocks.

All I can suggest is playing with it. The M3 BMW racecar is the car I got my current "favorite" baseline quotient from. Find a car and setting you really like, then compute the LSD for the Minolta, the Epson NSX (or similar GT NSX) and the SRT8 Challenger.

In "Absolute" philosophy, they will seem way off. Drive them and I think you will be pleasantly surprised of how the car performs.

 

[P0UP0N]

Thank you Scott - I will definetely try out your equation. I played with the LSD last night with the 380RS and my times on Deep Forest were relatively close to each other. One thing I did like was the ability to control some of the wheelspin on corner exit (online tuning is is a lot less forgiving than offline for some reason).

As far as "not wasting time with any tune that does not utilize LSD," I don't find that point valid at all. Does that mean that you wouldn't waste time on a car that you couldnt adjust downforce or any other component of the car? I can't see the LSD making or breaking a great setup on a car.

 

[87lc2]

To fully understand how to adjust the LSD, one must realize this tuning aspect deals entirely in ratios, NOT absolutes.

For example, A setting of 40/50/40 (not a suggestion, just for discussion), will react differently in a car that weighs 1800kg, vs a car that weighs 1100kg.

Get ready to copy and paste...


LSD TUNING FORMULA:

1) Baseline for LSD Acceleration Setting:

Convert kg to lb

Baseline accel setting /2.2 = baseline quotient of combination.
hp/wght ratio

For Example we will use the M3 BMW with LSD settings 40/50/40. "50" is the baseline setting. The BMW weighs 1120kg (2464lbs) and has 677hp. This equates to a 3.6 hp/wght ratio in pounds.

50/3.6=13.89 13.89/2.2= 6.313

This number (6.313) is very important. If we want another vehicle's differential to react like the BMW's, the first step is to find the acceleration setting number that matches 6.313 as close as possible in the new car's hp/weight ratio formula.

For example, The ZR1 Vette weighs 1100kg (2420lbs) with 905hp which equates to a 2.4 hp/wght ratio.

SO,

33/2.4= 13.75/2.2 = 6.25. This is as close as we are going to get with the vette.

2)Baselining Initial Torque and Braking.

Now we know what the Accel setting is, we need to match the initial torque and brake settings. Now, we need to multiply 33 by .8 (the difference between our Torque, and brake in this example, from our initial accel setting of 50). This gives us 26.4.

So the baseline LSD for the Vette is 26/34/26.

I must reiterate, the "6.313" number is not a recommended baseline number I use. I have given you the formula to baseline your set ups off of an LSD setting you like in one car with a certain hp/wght ratio, and have the LSD perform close in a different car with a totally different hp/wght ratio.

Hope this helps.

Very interesting Scottster, definitely have to give this a try. One question though, where did you get the .8 from? Is that constant?

 

[Scottster]

As far as "not wasting time with any tune that does not utilize LSD," I don't find that point valid at all. Does that mean that you wouldn't waste time on a car that you couldnt adjust downforce or any other component of the car? I can't see the LSD making or breaking a great setup on a car.

You're welcome. In regards to the above mentioned quote, I agree to an extent. If the set-up has the LSD involved, and it's set on the default setting, I wouldn't put much faith in the set-up, because it's not gonna be that fast.

my .02

 

[budious]

For FR and MR vehicles this formula has been very consistent for me. Yes it is a baseline but I very rarely have to move the Initial Torque or Brake more than +/- 1 step.

I am curious, did you research influence of wheelbase length or attempt to make a formula that would account for it as a factor beforehand and decide it was a non-factor, or is it assumption in weight that typically lighter cars have short wheelbases and the heavier ones a long wheelbase?

 

[Adrenaline]

As far as "not wasting time with any tune that does not utilize LSD," I don't find that point valid at all.

Tune any car you want, for as long as you want, without buying a customizable LSD. Take an hour, a day, a week, a month, I don't care.
I guarantee that within 30 minutes, I can make it faster with Custom LSD.
Therefore I stand by my original statement; I won't waste time with any tune, that doesn't take advantage of what a properly set up LSD can do.