LSD Settings: How they really work in GT5?

Question: what should my LSD settings be?

Track: Fuji
Car: FGT (Championship event A-spec)
controller: Wheel G25

my driving style: I know the track fairly well, but I am discouraged at the car tending to oversteer into spinout.

I like to approach every turn in a high speed straight, down shift one, or two gears, (with a sudden brake stomp) and take the turns with 50-75% constant throttle, then "squeeze the trigger" on the way out, only landing full throttle on the settled straight, in a higher gear, knowing if I pull the trigger too much, the car will over steer. (not always, but it very well might)

so, which are the best LSD IT, accel, decel settings for me?

so far I found this setting to be great!

Aero: 70/90
LSD: 12/25/15
Height: -5/0
Spr: 13.7/14.8
Ext: 6/8
Com: 5/7
Roll: 5/6
Cam: -2.7/-1.5
Toe: -0.30/-0.10
Brakes: 4/1
as found on : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147815&highlight=result&page=8

safe avg lap time: 1:17:5
best lap 1:13:xxx

I have a bunch of questions:

why is the decel so low, yet still works fantastic on throttle trailing through tough Fuji corners?

OT:why are my toes in the negatives, yet this car chisels its way wonderfully through the corners?

thanks for reading.
edit: I turned SRF on , as the only aid to ensure a gold victory in the whole championship. For practice, or free runs, I turn it off.
 
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I would say you need higher LSD on the FGT... but I'm not a pro and SRF flaws the whole setting, so you can't really tune it the same for either with or without SRF.

There are almost 10 tunes for the FGT try them!
 
Even I am running higher LSD settings on the FGT and I tend to like lower settings. I can't remember exactly without being in front of my PS3, but I think I am 15/35/35?

And I am not running the rear toe out. Am around +10 on rear toe.
 
The FGT championship is one of the last events I have to do besides the enduros. I find it odd that there is an event that requires you to cycle the UCD until you can find the car. They should've made the car available in the new dealer.
 
I know, I saw it weeks ago and figured I'd just buy it when I was going to do the event. Now I have the credits and time to do it (since PSN is down I'm doing all sorts of a-spec stuff) but I can't get the car.
 
Rotary Junkie
No. The cars with open diffs list 0/0/0.
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I just saw that today on an Audi RS6 but I'm quite sure there are cars with -/-/- (SpecV?). My PS3 isn't running at the moment and I can't look it up but if there is -/-/- what could this mean? Or do I just imagine something that's not there?
 
chuyler1
Yes I think the EVOs with Yaw control have dashes.
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The Yaw Controller has its own menu if the EVO you own has that feature...

The Mine's Skyline is also a bit funky, it's the only car I've found that lets you customize only the rear differential but the front is hard locked to 3/18/?.
 
I think I see where I made my errors in my explanation.

I speak of wheel resistance and the shorter path creating a greater amount of resistance. This is just how I see it in my mind as Nowaddays working on cars is a lot more electrical, and so I use the resistance point for my brain processing. The resistance point is not the tire but the wheels side of the LSD.

As a wheel gets lighter it's ability to apply power is reduced. The heavier the weight is on a tire, the more power it can put down with that tire. The lighter it is the lower the amount of applicable power. The difference in wheel speed creates resistance in the LSD, the INT clutches are what resist the difference in wheel speed by the set amount (this is the resistance I speak of). The set amount is our Initial Torque setting. And the difference needs to exceed the int setting in order to make the LSD Start slipping. If set to 10 the difference in wheel speed needs to exceed 10% for the LSD to start slipping, otherwise it remains "locked". When slipping the available power is reduced by the amount required to make the LSD slip. If it's set to 10, we have 90% available power remaining when the LSD is slipping.

As your taking a corner with an int setting of 10, once we achieve a difference in wheel speed greater than 10% the LSD is activated (until then it acts like it's locked) or starts "slipping" it then sends the remaining available power through the acceleration torque setting before going to the wheel. If we have a accel setting of 40, when the LSD is activated it will retain 40% of the available power (after taking the loss to activate the LSD) above the minimum amount the tire can handle. If this were locked 100% of available power would be 90% of the torque going in to the diff, if it were set to 50, we would retain 50% of the 90% of available power above what the minimum amount he tire can handle. If the diff were open we would only use the minimum amount the tire with the least ability can handle.

As the tire gets light the minimum it can handle is reduced, while as he outside gets heavier the minimum it can handle is increased. The LSD sends power based ONLY off the wheel with the least ability. If one sides ability is reduced the power delivered to both sides is reduced based off he amount the tire with the least ability can handle. With an open diff the wheels will get only the minimum the wheel with the least ability can handle. A locked diff will give 100% of available power at all times, even If this amount greatly exceeds the tire with the least ability's ability (roasting the inside tire). While an LSD will give the amount the wheel with the least ability can handle plus the amount retained by the LSD, remember the amount retained by the LSD is reduced by the amount required to activate the LSD.

This is very simple to simulate and has not changed at least since GT4. What has changed is the tires relationship with grip/slip. This inadvertently effects the LSD while the LSD has stayed the same, based on simple math.

It seems people think adding weight reduces the wheels ability, but it does the opposite, the more weight on the tire the higher level of power can be applied through it. The lighter the weight is on the tire the lower the amount of power the tire can handle becomes.
 
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It seems people think adding weight reduces the wheels ability, but it does the opposite, the more weight on the tire the higher level of power can be applied through it...
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:tup:Yes adding weight will promote interlocking of the tire with the road surface....but don't forget about the loss of relative traction (loss in the tire's cornering efficiency).Look at a tire performance curve(traction/vertical load=cornering efficiency)...As weight is increased,the traction also increases,but the increase in traction become less and less as the weight is increased.(more vertical load=less cornering efficiency)A tire's cornering efficiency reduces quickly when it is asked to support more and more weight.

"Adrenaline"Don't get hung up on who claims or appears to be more knowledgeable in real world experience.This includes me as well.
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You're RIGHT!! Its just a game ...they can't program everything in the game...there's also a lack of data if you want to do the math....
I guess it includes me too.
 
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Nicktune
:tup:Yes adding weight will promote interlocking of the tire with the road surface....but don't forget about the loss of relative traction (loss in the tire's cornering efficiency).Look at a tire performance curve...As weight is increased,the traction also increases,but the increase in traction become less and less as the weight is increased.(more vertical load=less cornering efficiency)A tire's cornering efficiency reduces quickly when it is asked to support more and more weight.
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That's not exactly correct and contradicting.

You say...

".As weight is increased,the traction also increases"

And right after you say...

"the increase in traction become less and less as the weight is increased."

o_O whut?!?

The tires cornering efficiency is also reduced as power put through the tire is increased. However your slightly incorrect.

If we have a eccono box 16" wheel with a juicy 195/55/16 tire, and 500lb of weight supported, it has a crap load more grip than the same tire supporting 5lb. At the same time the tire with 500lb will resist sliding a crap load more than a tire with 5lb. It's when the weight pushing down becomes force pushing sideways that cause the grip loss you speak of. If the 500lb pushing down on the tire becomes 495lb of force pushing sideways & only 5lb remains pushing down, it's going to sliiiiiiiide.

Turning cases the weight of the vehicle to force on the tires sideways progressively as it decreases downward pressure. The more of the weight causing sideways force the lower the amount of weight is pushing down on the tire. The less weight pushing down, the less grip you have, at the same time as the available grip is reduced by the increase in sideways pressure.

As the weight pushing down on the tire is decreased the tires ability to put down power is decreased, at the same time, as the force pushing sideways is increased the tires ability to put down power is also decreased.

In a corner the inside tire has a weight loss & the outside has a weight gain (weight transfer), while both sides get the same amount of grip loss due to sideways force (causing an equal weight loss to sideways force increase ratio) meaning with an LSD the inside tire is always closer to exceeding it's tires limits than the outside, and more likely to break out because of the LSD, while many other things usually cause the outside to break traction first if it does.
 
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Hey Motor, I was just skimming the OP again. I'm inline with all your theory, and GVE-R is a great place to tune. It's got a high speed turn, mid speed turn, and low speed hairpin. Plus it has a decent straight to reveal a car's overall potential.

As for your final comment about outside wheelspin under throttle, I completely agree. If you touch the throttle and get an instant red outside drive wheel, you can't blame the LSD. The car just has too much torque. The solution I have found (short of more precise throttle modulation) is to run taller gears. space out 1st-3rd and keep the car in a lower rpm band and the LSD will do a better job putting the power down. This implies some short shifting though, so drivers still handicapping themselves with automatic transmissions need not apply.
 
I want to thank everyone for the effort that it takes to try to explain these theories to us laymen.

I have gone over it all myself over and over and still can't get a handle on the LSD.

Motor City Hami has a great idea here and I am going to give this a serious look.

Just one question, when you say start with the Init. at 10 what do you start the Decel/Accel at? Do you start with 10/10/10?

I don't want to start a new debate but if Hami could give me a heads up that would be great.

Oh and what is wrong with the Wings?
 
jimbobclay
I want to thank everyone for the effort that it takes to try to explain these theories to us laymen.


Just one question, when you say start with the Init. at 10 what do you start the Decel/Accel at? Do you start with 10/10/10?
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Yep - I'll 2nd the applause for Motor City Hami for this thread, it's worth it's weight in gold.

The LSD can vary for different people and cars, so it's very difficult to accurately give figures to start with e.g. someone with a steering sensitivity set to maximum might rn different braking sensitivity figure than someone with steering sensitivity to minimum.

I've just switched from a pad to a G27 and my diff setting now are totally different as a "start".

On the pad, I usually reduced the braking sensitivty, now with the wheel it's usually around default or slightly higher.

Some with initial, I found throttle and brake control alot easier with pedals than with pad, so before I'd go for max "grip" / stability from the initial and acc, now I run my initial higher to start wth and tweak from there.

For me, this is ROUGHLY what I'd start with, but the differences between the same car at the same PP, but one with sports hards and the other with racing softs - BIG difference.

PAD - steering sensitivity around medium (4)

Front engined Rear wheel drive car - 530pp, sports soft tyres ONLINE

10 (initial)
14 (acc)
5-15 (brake sense)

Mid / Rear engined rear wheel drive car - 530pp sports soft ONLINE
10
14
10-20

4WD / AWD - 530pp sports soft - online (these type of cars normally best to put more drive to rear wheels to help save front tyres i.e. 20 / 80 split)

Fr.....Rr
30 - 10
40 - 14
50 - 10

G27 WHEEL (not pad) - default feedbck of 5, PRO steering.

Front engined Rear wheel drive car - 530pp, sports soft tyres ONLINE

20-30 (initial)
14-18 (acc)
15-25 (brake sense)

Mid / Rear engined rear wheel drive car - 530pp sports soft ONLINE
20-30
14-18
20-30

Simple rules that I found helped alot of guys who were struggling with LSD tuning:

1) Braking sensitivity - ADD the word "engine" to the front of this, this doesn't affect brakes. This figure is all about when you release the brakes or lift off the accelerator.

If car oversteers - increase
If car understeers - decrease

But, your brake figures can also have an affect on this too.

2) Acc Sensitivity

Inside wheel spins - INcrease this figure
Outside wheel spins - DEcrease this figure

This is about as "rough" a guide as possible that can be applied generally without knowing vital infomation.

The diversity of individiual cars, mixed with tuning options and a persons steering settings and driving style means it's almost impossible to be accurate for everyone all of the time.

I've helped alot of guys tuning for online racing, what I find is the golden rule in life - KEEP IT SIMPLE works best.

Yes, a comprehensive guide ould be alot better then what I just posted, but most guys who need help with diffs on GT5 find it easier if things are kept simple at first, don't try and run before you can walk.

Get 2 cars - identical, maybe a NSX type R with more power (around 350bhp) - but fit one with a custom LSD.

Run the stock one, then run the one with the LSD and try and 'tune' the LSD to suit you.

Then do the same with maybe a RX7 Spirit type R.

This way, there is no "interference" from other factors, the differences you make and feel are just from the diff. This has helped alot of guys I know to understand the "power" of the diff and how much it can change a car's feel, balance, grip, stability and handling - and ultimately, lap times too.

All the best - good luck 👍

H
 
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Motor City Hami
I have been re-reading my favorite car handling book, "Tune to Win" by Carrol Smith. Carrol was the god of road race tuning and was involved with Formula One through the late 1990's (the non-driver assist era).
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Thank you for your recent mention of the series of Books that can be read, written by Author Carrol Smith, I have and am currently reading two that my dear wife gifted to me, Drive to Win, and Tune to Win. There is a wealth of knowledge to be had in those two alone, and from your mention, and of course, your own theories, thx MCH.

A year now into GT5, and online Nurburgring Racing, has expanded my quest to gain new knowledge, in better understanding, to take me to the next level, and that is to allow myself to achieve faster than current laptimes, to win.

I have been consistent in most races, often times lending or i should say, sacrificing times, for courtesy and avoiding mishaps from and to others, on the track, (in preparation for my real life expedition there one day soon)

I happen to love this paragraph he wrote, before anything else, really:

"Tuning is like designing, in that, if it were a precise science, all of the cars campaigned by competent organizations would exhibit no faults or vices, drivers would have nothing to bitch about, every modification and tweak would word and the cars would go like stink all of the time. None of this happens. We spend most of our professional lives in one quandry after another- wondering why our bright ideas don't work- and searching for our very own Holy Grail. Once in a while we make a breakthrough and think that we have gained a teneous hold on the handle of the grail. Ineviteably we then find that whatever bit of knowledge we have learned merely lets in enough light to allow us to see a whole new series of problems. The visibility at the best of times is liable to be a bit hazy due to clouds of ignorance."

👍
 
my opinion has changed thru the coarse of time but 6/60/60 seems to work across the board FR MR FF but 4wd my experience has showed 6/60/60 front 5/55/55 or 56 with 35/65 torque split but I drive with a controller not a wheel but driving style dictates more than anything let me know how that works for u OH yeah drive that setup aggressively to keep the locker engaged as much as possible a little braking goes a long way some times you have to slow down to go FAST!!!
 
Hi,

Regarding the 4WD cars, we can tune the LSD on the front and rear drivetrains.
Do you setup the LSD based on the torque split? How?

Regards,
 

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