Mad FinnTuners Co. - Finished 081213 - The Final Countdown, 4, 3, 2, 1, OUT!
- Thread starter Greycap
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- PumpinNumbies
Cancel! Taking the spam elsewhere. Sorry!
- 5,814
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- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Sorry peace to the Finns.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Reset it. That way I can avoid possible dual facepalms 
Greycap already has all cars, so he can tune one without sending it to him, I think..
Greycap already has all cars, so he can tune one without sending it to him, I think..- 375
- racer39658
OK, so, about 6 months ago, I tried a couple of the Madd Finn tunes. Being pretty experienced at Gran Turismo (I've been playing racing games since Pole Position, and Gran Turismo since the first version), I ignored the whole "expert" comment. Hell, I can beat any AI, or any of my friends, without a problem.
Well, I came out of it thinking that the tunes were total blech, figuring that the "expert" label was a way to cover up a bad tune by saying it was driver error if you couldn't get it to work.
Fast forward to today. I'm running the supercar race for some credits, and I see my old MFT cars collecting dust. I figure, what they hey, even last place pays decent. Bearing in mind that I've been playing a fair amount in the intervening 6 months, and could race circles against myself from 6 months ago, I climbed in the Spirra.
OK, experience makes a huge difference. That "Expert" label really does mean something. Yes, the car is still twitchy. But the corner speed is so nice it'll have you giggling like a school girl (of course, you'll crash if you don't pause it while giggling, so be prepared). Throttle control and smart braking are vital, and if you run smooth, this car is just plain fast. While I may not be comfortable running it through bumpier tracks, it did just fine at Trial Mountain (my best lap was over a second faster than a run in a tuned Scuderia at 20 PP higher).
Feeling giddy after the easy win, I jump in the second "bad" car, the RUF BTR. I don't think I finished a race with it on my original try, what with it driving like a RR car and everything (oh, wait... it IS a RR car). With some careful throttle control, and a major line adjustment (slow in, fast out... late apex... easy on the brakes), I found myself getting fairly comfortable in this car as well. Not as fast as the Spirra (off by about a second), but a very competant car as long as you remember what you're driving, and another easy win in the Supercar seasonal at Trial Mountain.
The moral of the story is this: when the tag says expert, believe it. These two cars require your attention, focus, and patience. If you treat them like they want, though, they will reward you well.
Well, I came out of it thinking that the tunes were total blech, figuring that the "expert" label was a way to cover up a bad tune by saying it was driver error if you couldn't get it to work.
Fast forward to today. I'm running the supercar race for some credits, and I see my old MFT cars collecting dust. I figure, what they hey, even last place pays decent. Bearing in mind that I've been playing a fair amount in the intervening 6 months, and could race circles against myself from 6 months ago, I climbed in the Spirra.
OK, experience makes a huge difference. That "Expert" label really does mean something. Yes, the car is still twitchy. But the corner speed is so nice it'll have you giggling like a school girl (of course, you'll crash if you don't pause it while giggling, so be prepared). Throttle control and smart braking are vital, and if you run smooth, this car is just plain fast. While I may not be comfortable running it through bumpier tracks, it did just fine at Trial Mountain (my best lap was over a second faster than a run in a tuned Scuderia at 20 PP higher).
Feeling giddy after the easy win, I jump in the second "bad" car, the RUF BTR. I don't think I finished a race with it on my original try, what with it driving like a RR car and everything (oh, wait... it IS a RR car). With some careful throttle control, and a major line adjustment (slow in, fast out... late apex... easy on the brakes), I found myself getting fairly comfortable in this car as well. Not as fast as the Spirra (off by about a second), but a very competant car as long as you remember what you're driving, and another easy win in the Supercar seasonal at Trial Mountain.
The moral of the story is this: when the tag says expert, believe it. These two cars require your attention, focus, and patience. If you treat them like they want, though, they will reward you well.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Good to hear that your mind has changed. 👍
- 6,016
- Finland
I'm finally enough back in shape to try to craft somewhat sensible responses for these. Around 15 hours of sleep over 5 days of physical exercise tends to throw one's ability to think out of whack quite effectively...
GfxJG - I'm also pretty sure it isn't the fastest one around, at least on fast circuits. On slow ones it might do quite well being able to be turned with the throttle while many others try to understeer as the power gets to the front wheels. Then again it's right on a par with the stable RS8 that has equal PP so I guess it does its job after all.
Onboy123 - First, the Stratos. Believe me, the oversteer is certainly there when you really begin pushing it and hunting the last tenths as it won't be going straight in any corner at that point but as you noticed, that's a large part of the fun. Second, the RS200. I'm inclined to believe you didn't quite get the hang of driving it the way it should be driven as it's most definitely faster than the Peugeot but it takes a different style altogether. While the 205 is best handled with care and with some thought applied, the RS200 gives the most out of itself when you're asking 110% from the tyres and forcing it forward just outside the limits of adhesion. It's also a lot more oversteery then the Peugeot but your findings tell otherwise which leads me to wonder if the settings (which you didn't change) were exactly the correct ones after all or if the DS3 makes such a huge difference. And third, the Lancer. Unfortunately I have to agree about the understeer but there's really nothing that can be done to help it - the car simply refuses to react to anything that by all logic should bring the tail out. The only way to make it oversteer on corner exit is to use a more rearward biased torque split but it creates a bunch of problems on its own. The base car is just so boring that even racing modification and all the tuning in the world can't save it. Fast, yes. Fun, no. The only thing it has on the Impreza is better top end power.
racer39658 - That's what experience tends to do! Indeed, the Expert badge isn't a means to cover up a bad tune but it really means that it takes an expert to get the most out of those cars. But when the expert gets behind the wheel they're usually flying when compared to their contemporaries, the Spirra, for example, hangs with GT500 cars despite being just a hopped up road car. Not for many laps but still.
Thanks for all these and more is naturally welcome!
GfxJG - I'm also pretty sure it isn't the fastest one around, at least on fast circuits. On slow ones it might do quite well being able to be turned with the throttle while many others try to understeer as the power gets to the front wheels. Then again it's right on a par with the stable RS8 that has equal PP so I guess it does its job after all.
Onboy123 - First, the Stratos. Believe me, the oversteer is certainly there when you really begin pushing it and hunting the last tenths as it won't be going straight in any corner at that point but as you noticed, that's a large part of the fun. Second, the RS200. I'm inclined to believe you didn't quite get the hang of driving it the way it should be driven as it's most definitely faster than the Peugeot but it takes a different style altogether. While the 205 is best handled with care and with some thought applied, the RS200 gives the most out of itself when you're asking 110% from the tyres and forcing it forward just outside the limits of adhesion. It's also a lot more oversteery then the Peugeot but your findings tell otherwise which leads me to wonder if the settings (which you didn't change) were exactly the correct ones after all or if the DS3 makes such a huge difference. And third, the Lancer. Unfortunately I have to agree about the understeer but there's really nothing that can be done to help it - the car simply refuses to react to anything that by all logic should bring the tail out. The only way to make it oversteer on corner exit is to use a more rearward biased torque split but it creates a bunch of problems on its own. The base car is just so boring that even racing modification and all the tuning in the world can't save it. Fast, yes. Fun, no. The only thing it has on the Impreza is better top end power.
racer39658 - That's what experience tends to do! Indeed, the Expert badge isn't a means to cover up a bad tune but it really means that it takes an expert to get the most out of those cars. But when the expert gets behind the wheel they're usually flying when compared to their contemporaries, the Spirra, for example, hangs with GT500 cars despite being just a hopped up road car. Not for many laps but still.
Thanks for all these and more is naturally welcome!
- 5,303
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
It's only... half a year late, but I owed it to Leon (and Greycap) to finally come through with a review of the Robin, quite possibly one of the most deranged cars in my garage. While I had borrowed it back at the beginning of the year, it had to go back to the MFT garage, so I immediately built myself a replica.
Originally, I drove it at Deep Forest on the recommendation of Leon. An utter rollercoaster there, very nearly feeling too fast for the track, so for the review, I've popped over to GVS, MFT's main-page tuning grounds. I've brought along the MFT Robin, and a "stock" BTR tuned to the same specs. Here we go!
Robin
Oh look, not even 10 seconds after setting tires to tarmac, I'm sideways. In fourth. At nearly 200kph. Needless to say, this is going to be fun.
The first thing you notice dynamically is that the old 911 trait of death-inducing lift-off mid-turn has been dramatically toned down. Some might be tempted to describe it as understeer if one attempts to turn in on lift-off - the word they're looking for is stable. Trail-braking is possible too: this is a good thing, especially on the first turn at Grand Valley, as your feet are busy balancing both pedals as you haul things down. Yes, it will slur over towards the outside of the right-hander if you're too hard on the brakes for too long, but it doesn't feel any worse than a normal car, where the majority of the weight isn't hanging behind the rear axle. Impressive.
True to its makers' origins, this super-BTR responds well to Scandinavian flicks. Using the weight transfer to get the nose pointed in works on varying levels; do it a tiny bit for some line-tightening, or go whole hog and hang the tail out. This is possibly the most impressive thing about this tune - it's oversteery, the steering is super-sharp, but despite both those things, hooliganism is progressive. This isn't the fastest way around a track (well, usually not, more on that later), but it's important to note because you will slide in this car. It will bite you, hard, but after a few laps, you'll quickly learn where the limits are, and the car telegraphs its movements nicely. That double-left after the first hairpin? You can seamlessly paint down two strips of rubber from entry to exit, and because of the nature of that section, barely be any slower than a grip-line. This obviously isn't the case with most turns, however.
Following the proper lines and trying to limit wheelspin, the best approach is smoothness. Braking is more powerful than the stock balance, which lets you do it in a straight line, turn in, and get on a half-throttle as early as possible. Once you've made it through the majority of the turn, open the taps and prepare for a tiny bit of corrective lock to keep it pointed straight and building speed. If you do need more than a quarter-lock for any reason, the strong LSD settings make opposite-lock corrections much, much easier (and faster) than the stock settings, allowing you to get back to cutting your lap time as quickly as possible.
High speed stability is as good as you would expect from a 600+ horse beast weighing slightly over a ton, with minimal downforce. You will get oversteer, even upwards of 200kph, but it will nudge into it nicely, and most importantly, despite being on race rubber, won't knife-edge into an outside wall when it randomly decides to regain grip during counter-steering.
One last bit; the gearing. Fantastically spaced for GVS, you get a wide powerband, and room for drafting up in sixth if you need it. 2nd gear might appear too short, and when there's any amount of steering angle applied, it probably is. But exiting a hairpin, dropping to 2nd is perfect: the power comes on immediately, and the tires are just at the very limit of adhesion. They'll push you forward, without turning bright red, working much better than simply leaving it in 3rd (my preferred method going around the actual hairpin, since the throttle is much more manageable).
My final lap time was still 1.5sec off the MFT time, though this is with a DS3. A wheel is definitely, definitely better suited for a car like this, as the overriding quality needed is, again, smoothness. Something the controller just can't compete with. That being said, don't let the Expert tag fool you - it's a handful, absolutely, but I urge drivers to try it, as once you master this, nothing shy of an A310 shod in SS/SH will scare you. That and the lap times it is capable of compared to stock are just on another level.
Stock
What a mess. People who don't "get" RUFs, probably have full-tuned a BTR, or worse, a Yellowbird, and not bothered to give it some decent settings, and now I can understand them. The gearing stands out first - despite the slower-reacting chassis, I entered the straight at the same speed as the MFT car, only to be down 15kph by the end of it. The ratios don't take advantage of the wide power band, and are closer-stacked, meaning you're nudging the red in this car before braking, yet you can't even apply full power in the first three gears without guaranteed wheelspin.
I mentioned a slower chassis, and that's what sits at the front of your mind the entire lap - how can this be so slow-witted after the scalpel-sharp responses of the MFT car? Due to the increased amount of power-on oversteer, you end up slowing down more through most turns, having to get on the power later in the exit than the Robin. The stock LSD settings give you more of a workout if you need any corrective lock, delaying the whole "going forward" bit and adding seconds to the lap times. Even worse, the car is more catchy when sliding at any angle; it will randomly hook up with little to no warning, starting an over-correcting spin that will throw you into the nearest Armco.
The brakes are somehow less effective too. Don't ask me how.
After plenty of laps (far more than I gave the MFT), I squeaked to within 1.1sec of my time in the boys' bird. And wasn't happy in any of them.
Conclusion
A grand success, this. It's still a screaming lunatic of a car, but it's now one capable of consistent, repeatable, and most importantly, fast, lap times. It's best suited to a certain kind of track, too; much too stiff and low for the 'Ring, it's deadly at GVS, a ton of fun for zany antics on Deep Forest, and a force to be reckoned with at La Sarthe.
(click for full-size)
Last edited:
- 5,303
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
^And that, people, is how you do a proper review. Thousand thanks, Slipz, it was worth of the wait. 
JackWilson
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- Jack_Wilson247
- o0o0JACK0o0o
Hey guys hows it going? I heard you guys might be able to help me and maybe give me a little advice. Im currently tuning a car for the Million CR FF Shootout and need someone to test my car on GVS and tell me what you think, Ive already sent Greycap a FR and will put the car on share for you to save hassle, I know your probably busy but if you could spare maybe 5/10 minutes of your time that would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks Jack,
PM me if preferred.
Many thanks Jack,
PM me if preferred.
JackWilson
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- Jack_Wilson247
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- 5,303
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So, let me get this straight.. you guys.. want us to test couple cars on GVS, and you, Onboy, are willing to lose couple custom tune jobs we owe to you for that?
Oh, and Onboy.. You hadn't erased the setup from the CT230R So, I drove a lap as it was, then tweaked it until I had erased ~1.5 seconds from it. If you wish, I'll send it back now.
Oh, and Onboy.. You hadn't erased the setup from the CT230R
So, I drove a lap as it was, then tweaked it until I had erased ~1.5 seconds from it. If you wish, I'll send it back now.
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One CT230R on it's way.. And yes, I'm willing to test the cars, since Greycap is bit busy with other hushhush-projects of ours.
Onboy123
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- Onboy123
Ok, there's the tune as the one listed in the shootout was removed:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5472453#post5472453
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5472453#post5472453
- 5,303
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
I'll give it a shot. Where should I post the results?
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Very well. As to what happened.. Well, MFT was the biggest tuning garage, constantly in the top spots of tuner shootouts etc.. then, GT5 arrived and so, we transferred over here in order to continue the crusade of utter tuning domination.
- 5,303
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
That was probably related to one of RJ's garages many former members who liked to start picking up fights with us, just to be proven wrong the hard way.
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