Making a ferrari

[James2097]

What can I say, I love the bumps, I like it getting skittered around by the bumps! I tried the semi-racing suspension initially, but found it much too race-car hard-arse for my liking. I think the car simply goes TOO fast with semi-racing suspension, it gets a very comparable ring time to the 360 with sports suspension.

With the harder suspension, the car doesn't lean over enough for me, I like it to really get some momentum sideways, leanin' a bit when it drifts!

 

[the Interceptor]

You touched a sore spot there, James. It's kind of hard to tune a car the way you think it would drive stock, if it had been in the game. Personally, I think that the 360 Modena would be stock with the sports suspension. With the semi-racing one, it is too quick. Nevertheless, I put this into the liking of everybody that gives it a shot. Try both, and use what you like better. You are quicker with the semi-racing, but a tad too quick for a stock 360 maybe.

Your choice! 💡

Anyway, here are my settings for the RUF RGT, being a copy of the Porsche 911 GT3 (996):

• BBS 012 rims
• Hard sports tires for the rear, mediums for the front
• sports suspension (ride height 80/90, damper 5 both)
• Weight (plus 50kg at the middle)
• Oil change after at least 30 miles / 50 km

The original RGT already drives very well. But it has too much grip overall and especially at the back. The original GT3 actually is a track car for the road, so this needs to be rather sharp. I reduced grip with harder tires, but it still grips rather good. It's a bit quicker at the top end than the GT3, but the acceleration is on par, and it feels like a track car you can use on the road. I bought a yellow one by the way. When I started thinking about making a GT3 RS, which is an even sharper GT3, I noticed that I had gone too far with this already. So, I softened and slowed this a bit, and now I'll do the RS.

Okay, here we go with the copy of the Porsche 911 GT3 RS (996):

• Enkei 022 rims
• Racing Exhaust
• Soft sports tires at the front, mediums at the back
• Racing brakes
• Brake balance controller (8/4)
• Semi-racing suspension (springs 9 both, ride height 80/90, remains stay stock)
• Racing flywheel
• Weight reduction stage 1
• Port polish
• Engine balancing
• Rollcage

I know that this has more power and weighs less than the original RS, but it had to be sharper and quicker than the GT3, so I had to do it. The thing drives really excellent, but still, you can feel the difference in power and grip compared to a race car.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[SUROKIA]

thats what i did
with my GT3 RS
white with those red enkei rims that look similar
i"i know there are about 3 red enkei rims but you can choose)

 

[GT4_Rule]

Man this is an interesting project. Its turning out nicely, I suppose 👍 Kudos to SUROKIA for making this thread and same to those who are putting up settings to imitate real-life cars!

Im going to try the Spirra and the RGT later.

 

[McLaren]

good thread 👍

Has anyone tried to turn the Cizeta into a Testarossa? the engines are quite different - V16 compared to a Flat 12 - but the styling is close enough.

Hmm, sounds like a project for sunday afternoon!

edit: seems the Testarossa is somewhat underpowered against the Cizeta - 390hp to 560hp, but the ferrari is almost 100kg lighter, so I might make one up and pretend it's a 'super modified' version of the TR521M, which had around 440hp

I think it would be easier to get the Cizeta to mimic its distant relative, the Diablo. Both are more straight-line speed cars after all.

 

[Dark Elite]

I just added the upgraded computer type and the oil change, so don't forget those!

Yep, I did that.

Having tested out your original settings for the Spirra, Interceptor, I found it couldn't be much closer - the only problem I have is that the brakes are a little weak with the 200kgs of ballast, and the car also pushes a little wide mid-corner.

So, I solved both of these problems by taking some of the weight off, making 150kgs still there, and swapped the tyres over - soft front, medium rear sports.

Testing at Infineon Sports, which suits this car very well, I'd done what I was aiming for - a real sideways-spec Spirra!

I imagine this is now very close to the 360's performance, it's quite neutral until you annoy it, then it will just kick its arse round and you're looking where you're going out of the side window.
There is a strong snap-back much of the time, but the car is MR so you have to expect this. It does give you a lot of warning, unlike most MRs, so it is easily controllable, and makes for excellent S-Bend linking! This car will just go into a corner at 45 degrees and hold it, right to the limit. Excellent.

It really is great fun to drive.

I think I could have digressed a little from the Ferrari theme, making this car more oversteery on throttle than a real 360 Modena would be, so to get back on track (if you'll excuse the pun ) with that, I think the gearbox is a little sluggish when compared with the 360's - If we give it a twin-plate clutch and a semi-racing flywheel, I reckon we can make it swap cogs with less delay and rev faster like the Ferrari would. I'll try it out 👍

I'm loving this project so far

DE

 

[the Interceptor]

Right now, I'm up to making a 360 challenge stradale, which will presumably lead to a softer Spirro-360. I know it is not perfect concerning brakes, weight, gearbox and stuff, but it's not supposed to be either. Imagine you'd drive a stock Ferrari 360 Modena, then compare it to the car with your setup. You'll notice that it is quicker than it should be, cause when you're tuning something up, you usually tweak it until you like it. I was trying to tweak it until it feels like a 360 Modena, and I already got carried away.

EDIT:
I got into my Spirra 360 again, and I must agree with James: it's too quick! So, I'm just altering the setup again, after that I'll make a Spirra 360 challenge stradale.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[viperpilot]

damn nice project, i bought a Spirra yesterday and today i'm going to try out your setup Interceptor! well done with the 911GT3 and RS, maybe i'll try them out too.....what about the clutch and the flywheel D.E. mentioned? can i use them, or will it destroy my "360"??

viper

Edit: i searched for the Diablo, and i found that the '95 Diablo SE30 Jota has the nearest power-figures: 595HP to the 568HP of the Cizeta.....
http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Lamborghini/1995/Diablo_SE30_Jota/

 

[the Interceptor]

...what about the clutch and the flywheel D.E. mentioned? can i use them, or will it destroy my "360"??

That's mostly a thing of personal taste. I wanted the standard Spirro 360 not to rev up and change gear too quickly, to retain the correct distance to the challenge stradale I'm just making, and to keep it as original as possible. A sports flywheel is okay (I'll add that), but the clutch should remain original in my book, cause the Ferrari 360 doesn't change gear too quickly either. The CS however has the F1 gearbox, therefor it will get the 3 plate clutch.

Of course, everybody can alter parts and settings to the specific liking, but I am trying to get as close to the original cars as possible.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[viperpilot]

thanks that's what i wanted to know! i'll try it out, and let you know later.......

viper

 

[the Interceptor]

@ Viper: 👍

Here are my settings for the Spirro 360 challenge stradale:

• Semi-racing exhaust
• NA stage 2
• Medium sports tires at the front, softs at the back
• Racing brakes
• Brake balance controller (7/4)
• Semi-racing suspension (spring rate 5.8 both, height 132mm both, remains stay stock)
• Triple-plate clutch
• Racing flywheel

I'm not quite happy with the brakes yet, but otherwise, this thing is just furious. In acceleration and top speed it's a bit quicker than the original 360 CS, but I think it's okay like this. Soft sports tires make it a bit more tail-happy, but I think it shouldn't be.

Have a go and tell me what you think!

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[viperpilot]

i tried the "normal" 360, and i think it understeer too heavy for me. could be my driving-style or the 200kg plus. i removed 50kg, and with the remaining 150kg, i was able to do the real times for 400m (12,9/12,938) and nearly the 1000m time (23,2/22,8). the first times are the real one's, second times are mine. as said above, i think it understeers a lot, and the tail is unforgiveable for mistakes. but maybe i'm not used to it......going to try your 360CS-setup.

viper

 

[sachmeister]

Cool project guys, keep the good work up!
Only thing I'd like to add is : you're missing the obvious:

LOTUS ESPRIT V8.... its a 355 copy/competitor!
Great handling aswell.
Sure you'll have to get the non-turbo version!
I'd love to try it out but haven't got my ps2 with me!!!!
But I do have a red Esprit Turbo pushing nearly 700 horses, its a mean son of a ....
Let me know what u think guys..

 

[the Interceptor]

Remember that the 360 is not a race car, it's a very quick road car. In my 360 setup, it still is damn quick for being a stock model. And notice that without your 50kg, you run the 1000m (where weight counts more than to 400m) 0.4 seconds quicker than the real car.

Only thing I'd like to add is : you're missing the obvious:

LOTUS ESPRIT V8.... its a 355 copy/competitor!
Great handling aswell.
Sure you'll have to get the non-turbo version!

As far as I know, there is no non-turbo version in GT4, which counts the Esprit out.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[viperpilot]

you're right about the weight, do you think that the understeer is caused by the setup or by my driving-style? haven't got the time to test the CS-setup, but i'll try as soon as possible!

viper

 

[the Interceptor]

I think it is your driving style, cause I made the car drive very neutral. If you have an understeer tendency, try medium sports tires for the front as well as for the back. Which track did you test it on by the way?

EDIT:
I had a go with the Cizeta, and it comes surprisingly close to its archetype: the Lamborghini Diablo GTR. I picked that one because we're already dealing with 589hp, and the GTR is the only standard model above that (please forgive me my ignorance, viperpilot, but this fits just perfectly!), with 590hp. If you don't have the Cizeta, you can win it at the supercar festival in the professional hall. So here's what I did:

• Speedline 027 rims
• Soft sports wheels for the front, the back remains on mediums
• Racing Brakes
• Semi-racing suspension (springs 11 front/10 back, remains stay stock)
• Rollcage
• Stage 2 weight reduction

Okay, we need to get to 1,395kg, with a stage 2 reduction we get 1,394kg - perfect. The hp is already there, with only one horse difference, which is kind of as close as it can get. To my surprise, the figures match the original almost perfectly:

0-62mph: Diablo 3.5 secs / Cizeta 3.6 secs
topspeed: Diablo 338kph / Cizeta 340kph (before oil change)

However, I'm afraid I have to disappoint everybody that is about to give this baby a go on a racetrack. The Cizeta (and the Diablo) are much more about acceleration and straight line speed than about laptimes. It drives surprisingly well, but it will never be as agile as our RGT3 or the Spirra 360.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Brock5000]

Yep I came to the same conclusion about the Cizeta not long after tinkering with it and to be sure it will never be a supercar that dominates on the track. Like the Lambo and the Testarossa, they are show cars that have plenty of style but not much in the driver's department.

Interesting that you mention the RGT -> GT3, a little while ago I did a similar thing but with the intention of making a Carrera Cup spec car. As you know the cars in the Carrera Cup are based closely on the GT3 with concessions made to racing and the power increase over a stock GT3 appears to come from only a racing exhaust being fitted. All other increase in performance comes from dramatic weight reduction and the adjustable suspension.

Carrera Cup car specs
Power: 400bhp @7300rpm
Torque: 400Nm @ 6500rpm
Weight: 1,150kg

RUF RGT conversion

• White RGT (official colour is Carrera Cup White B9A)
• Racing Exhaust
• Race brakes & balance controller
• Port & Polish
• Racing Suspension
• Racing Transmission
• Adjustable LSD set to 15 / 24 / 36
• Weight Reduction Stage 3 (1,130kg) + 20kg Ballast = 1,150kg
• Roll cage
• No oil change
• Wheels BBS 001 - these appear to most closely match the three-piece, central locking nut BBS rims on Carrera Cup cars.

The above tuning gives the RGT exactly 400PS and 390Nn - not quite a perfect match to the 400bhp / 400Nm of the real thing, but close enough. You could probably make up the difference with an oil change and skipping the port & polish, but I prefer to leave oil changes until the car starts to drop power (not that I often drive a car far enough for this to happen!). I chose the P&P over the engine balancne as the RGT already has its peak power at 7,300rpm and so I felt there was no need to increase the redline.

Suspension tuning can be a very personal thing, especially with a RR car that has a different style to begin with, but I found with only a softening of the bound dampeners to 6 / 6 gave me a very predictable ride. Surely more finess can be extracted given time & testing. Likewise the brake balance is something that you may want to adjust to suit your tastes as the standard 3/3 value feels very flat.

The LSD settings of 15 / 24 / 36 are an estimation of the Carrera Cup regulations that specify a 40/60% split, which I take to be the acceleration to deceleration ratio. This may seem strange to have higher value for deceleration that acceleration, but in testing I found it to work very well and help the car's stability in braking as well as giving it a bit more bite when under hard acceleration coming out of corners.

Unfortunately, PD has negelected to let us add a rear wing to the RGT so we cannot make any downforce changes, as one can do to the Carrera Cup cars irl. Fortunately, the RGT is fairly well behaved in the stability department and with only 400hp it never really reaches such high speeds that it _needs_ extra downforce.

This Carrera Cup conversion, despite its modest power output, looks promising to compete with the mid spec race cars - Audi TT, Opel Calibra, JGTC etc. A 12 lap foray into the 300 mile Grand Valley enduro gave promising results and I was able to keep up with the leaders to the first pitstop (then I went to bed!).

 

[GT4_Rule]

Some neat specs, man!

 

[SUROKIA]

yeah no non turbo esprit..
but you could say it was a modified F355.
thats what i pretend im doing when i drive the
AuDi Le mans quattro..
im like MODIFIED GALLARDO! it handles SO nicley. stock as a rock it is the best handling car in the game
if you know how to drive awd

 

[the Interceptor]

The Le Mans Quattro as a Gallardo ... hmmm

 

[viperpilot]

the Gallardo sounds interesting!! maybe we can add another car to our "Cars that aren't in GT4, but now they are"-list *gg*
i'll try your GT3/RS/Cup-car-setups as soon as possible guys, they all look so nice!

@ the Interceptor: maybe i have to get used to the car....Edit: is there no oil-change by the GT3 RS??

viper

 

[gregc]

The Le Mans Quattro as a Gallardo ... hmmm

I was thinking Gallardo for the ZZ-II, but the donor car is waaay too light (even fully ballasted it's over 200kg lighter than the Lambo), plus there's not really enough data on the garage screen to do it accurately. I'll look forward to seeing the Le Mans setup though - loving your work so far 👍

 

[the Interceptor]

@ the Interceptor: maybe i have to get used to the car....Edit: is there no oil-change by the GT3 RS??

Yeah, just use it for some days, and then tell if you got used to it, or if it still is as bad. And about the oil change: well, I confess I didn't mention that explicitly, but of course, you'll have to make it one day. So, it was kinda obvious anyway.

I was thinking Gallardo for the ZZ-II, but the donor car is waaay too light (even fully ballasted it's over 200kg lighter than the Lambo), plus there's not really enough data on the garage screen to do it accurately.

There's a much bigger problem with the ZZII - it has a biturbo inline 6, which is too far away from a NA V10.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[gregc]

There's a much bigger problem with the ZZII - it has a biturbo inline 6, which is too far away from a NA V10.

Regards
the Interceptor

Well yeah, there is that too

 

[the Interceptor]

Errr guys, we have a problem! Both cars with the Lambo V10, the Le Mans Quattro and the Nuvolari Quattro, are supercharged. 👎

Any other ideas for a Gallardo copy?

 

[R390GT1]

These are some nice spec's guys. I'd love to try em' out but my stupid game keeps freezing! 👍

 

[GT4_Rule]

I just tried the Challenge Stradale settings. Must say, it does sound alike!

 

[slo-car]

Ok I just tried the 360 and it's bloody good. I'm about to try the CS.

btw, if anyone is interested, I made a replica of a Evo Fq-400 that is pretty close to real life if anyone wants me to post it.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Ok I just tried the 360 and it's bloody good. I'm about to try the CS.

btw, if anyone is interested, I made a replica of a Evo Fq-400 that is pretty close to real life if anyone wants me to post it.

Go do it!

 

[slo-car]

Go do it!

I will first thing in the morning -- I have to go to work in a couple minutes.

As for the 360CS, excellent replica too.