- 6,515
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- RacingAtHome
I hate that puddle so much. If I could wipe any puddle off the face of the earth, it's that one. It was the catalyst which cost me a race one time. Just ask @Chad151515.
Maybe SMS got puddles RIGHTPS4
- Thread starter slthree
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Map a button to stability control & turn it on just before you hit the puddle, then turn it off once you get through it 
Out of curiosity, (because I forgot to try it) raise the ride height to maximum & see if it's any better.
Also, not sure if it's placebo or not but turning off any LSD seems to help me a bit, it's as if the LSD was trying to hard to fight the slipping wheels & just goes crazy sending me all different directions.
I know it's supposed to help but give it a go with all LSD options off.
Can't believe I'm defending puddles
I hate them too
Out of curiosity, (because I forgot to try it) raise the ride height to maximum & see if it's any better.
Also, not sure if it's placebo or not but turning off any LSD seems to help me a bit, it's as if the LSD was trying to hard to fight the slipping wheels & just goes crazy sending me all different directions.
I know it's supposed to help but give it a go with all LSD options off.
Can't believe I'm defending puddles
I hate them too
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With an open diff, the torque sent to both rear wheels is the same. This is pretty stable. The limited slip diff enables the wheel with more grip to take more torque. This helps you put power down coming out of a corner, but in the case of one wheel aquaplaning in a puddle and the other not in a puddle and having more grip, it will tend to pull the car to one side.
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For the record I'm not a mod. And I won't say what you describe couldn't happen and wouldn't be wrong. But you insulting people wouldn't be the propper response.
I pointed out to you what that line implied to me. If not that what did you mean with it? I sincerely hope for an answer on that one.
You are free to take or leave my pointers about what some things can imply to others. I can say that life becomes more joyous and easier when you realise people can interpret things diffrently. Instead of instantly lashing out and acting as if I was a mod you could've jusy explained what you meant with that line.
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Scaff
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Not quite.
With an open diff the torque is biased to the wheel with the least grip, and if one has no grip at all then it gets all of the torque.
Its why a limited slip diff is called just that, it limits the torque sent to the side that is slipping.
- 149
- England
What does thd article mean with open?
Because if you use a differential and don't lock it or give it friction @Scaff is most defenitly right.
This is a system of gears if you look it up you can see why the wheel without traction would get all the torque.
https://goo.gl/images/Mc1tRG
An open differential will always have a 50:50 torque distribution.
So when the inside wheel starts to slip it will limit the amount of torque that's sent to the outside one.
The higher your locking effect the more torque will be sent to the outside wheel when the inside one loses grip.
At 100% locking effect all torque can be sent to the outside wheel when the inside one loses contact with the road.
Scaff
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I've taught this subject and the web page in question is wrong, an open diff will not send the exact same amount of torque to the two wheels if grip levels differ between them.
What's missing from both pieces here is that an open diff will try and send equal torque to the wheels (which is a statement that actually applies to all diffs), the difference is what happens when you have differing rotation speeds as each wheel.
If an open diff always sent torque 50:50 to each wheel, then when you corner you drivetrain would rip itself apart (which is why fully locked diffs shoul be used with great care at anything above walking pace).
Answer this, if a car with an open diff has one of the driven wheels with zero traction is equal torque supplied to both wheels?
BTW - Toyota agree with me (2:18 onwards)
- 91
You did insult people, both forum members and developers. I can quote your postings here if you like (though I won't, to not drag this thread down and off-topic).
The fact that you cannot see why people interpret your remarks as insults says a lot about *your* communication skills, but I guess that never occurred to you. You're only stating The Truth, right?
And to go on-topic, I agree that for pC3 the puddles should be limited in size and depth. Both track geometry and drainage efficiency should be tweaked such that in realistic heavy rain situations the tracks are still drivable.
Ok then I misunderstood your post or used the wrong terminology.
What I meant was that the amount of torque that's applied to the road, so to speak, is always equal in an open diff.
So if the inside wheel is completely lifted off the road there'll be no longitudinal force on both wheels and the car won't be able to accelerate.
Does that sound more correct?
Scaff
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Close, but still not quite right.
If the wheels are straight and grip levels equal the diff will send 50:50 torque to both wheels, but the moment that's not the case it will change, how much it changes will depend on how much grip is being lost and/or steering directional differences exist. The key point is that with an open diff, the wheel with the least grip will always get the most torque (path of least resistance - quite literally).
The Toyota video explains it really well.
In a purely nontechnical way of describing it, I would say that an open differential does not favor any of the two wheels, loves them both 50%-50% and let's them sort out their differences by themselves . So the stronger one (the wheel with less/no traction, which can spin freely) gets all the torque for itself, leaving nothing for the other sibling!
A locked differential loves the weak wheel more, so if one starts to spin due to low traction, the diff cuts off torque from it and sends it to the one with more grip.
. So the stronger one (the wheel with less/no traction, which can spin freely) gets all the torque for itself, leaving nothing for the other sibling!A locked differential loves the weak wheel more, so if one starts to spin due to low traction, the diff cuts off torque from it and sends it to the one with more grip.
This here is the bottom line to understand about it. The way it is designed, an open diff is a good example of this physics phenomenon.
Or, to think of it another way, instead of "cutting" torque, a limited slip differential responds to the increase in speed on one side by spinning up the other one too. There is a finite amount of torque being generated, so you're not wrong, of course, but I think of "cutting" torque as more like how a brake-based pseudo-LSD system works.
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
Puddle are perfectly fine in pc2. Problem is when you are against AI on a track flooded track
- 34
- Lancashire
PC2 has got puddles all wrong,shame they have not bothered tweaking it.
Manufacturer race at night with a flooded track was a waste of time,AI so fast impossible to race against not even a hind of slowing for the rain or puddles and me oh great puddle hear the splash as hit puddle car sideways totally out of control.
looks great in practice but shame no patch to sort it.
Manufacturer race at night with a flooded track was a waste of time,AI so fast impossible to race against not even a hind of slowing for the rain or puddles and me oh great puddle hear the splash as hit puddle car sideways totally out of control.
looks great in practice but shame no patch to sort it.
- 6,515
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- RacingAtHome
Would it not be more accurate to say one part is wrong? You say it's all wrong but then just go on to say how it doesn't affect AI.
I'm sure there's a workaround other than the player's physics.
Scaff
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How the puddles work is pretty much as it should be, its the AI's interaction with them that is the issue, not the puddles themselves.
- 34
- Lancashire
The complete loss of control is over exaggerated,hit a puddle and the car goes completely sideways and spins out as player.if the AI behaved the same way there would be cars flying off every puddle,totally unrealistic.
- 34
- Lancashire
Its all wrong,over exaggerated loss of control as a player and no loss of control or speed as the AI.
Scaff
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Have you ever aquaplaned on a race track?
I have, its not over-exaggerated (and as the OP states - this years Daytona had plenty examples of it occurring)
Tracks get a significant degree more surface water build up than normal roads do, not only do most of them not have the crown that a public road has, but the grade of tarmac is significantly better (to maximise grip levels); what all of that does is speed up surface water build up and reduce run-off and clearance.
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- 34
- Lancashire
I Have aquaplaned on a motorway as the revs shot up and lifted the car of the road,just kept the wheel straight and no loss of control unlike PC2 where it snaps sideways...
If the game wants to implement heavy rain and large puddles in career mode then they need to make it more manageable or just put a red flag out to abandon the race like at Daytona.
As I mentioned in career mode at Red bull ring it was undrivable hitting every puddle or river across the track,totally spoiled it.
was having many a close race in the dry in previous races even with 100 set as the speed of the AI at and aggression at 85.
Scaff
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I'm going to hazard a guess that your talking about very different speeds involved here, and motorways are designed to clear as much water as possible, as I've already explained that's not the case with racetracks.
I've also posted a number of videos showing that at race speeds you do get the sideways snap when aquaplaning (as we are also likely talking about wildly different levels of power, torque and driver aids).
Nope, they need to make it as manageable as it is in reality, and in reality on a race track, at race speeds its not anything like as manageable as it is on the road, at road speeds.
That I agree on.
Which is an AI issue, not a physics one.
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- 34
- Lancashire
The one you agreed to ie abandoning the race then why would they implement into a career mode race as its totally undrivable due to the AI flying past every flooded corner or hitting you as your so slow. ?
The times in the race were at very low speeds around 80 mph hardly above motorway speeds and on very slight corners,total snap sideways hitting a puddle..
No I have not raced at 150 mph on a flooded track,as you have and have better experience then the physics must be correct...
But we certainly will agree on disagreeing
even if the patches that could be applied would improve the scenario for the player may not be up to pure sim as all would like..But yes,AI speed is totally broken. just glad to stick to motorway speeds on the road
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
I have spun several times in real life when hitting serious puddles man, apart from some damage in the low end too of course, and on both rwd and fwd; never on a track with a GT car though, so I don't know. I mean It's proving to be challenge agreeing with you on this one.
- 34
- Lancashire
Do you run around with bald tyres ?
Never fortunately spun out on the road in big puddles driving normally even up to 70 mph... for over 35 years
not sure what you mean by some damage to the low end of course ?
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