McLaren MP4-12C: Lets make it better.

[paskowitz]

So the reviews are in for the newest McLaren and the verdict is roughly a unanimous, its pretty much the best super car currently available. The praise for the car seems to be emphatically unequivocal.

Unfortunately, in GT5 (and that other "sim" game on the other console), the car handles like crap. It does not simply steer, only over and under steers. That along with the fact that it has crazy amounts of wheel spin on acceleration. More than the F1, which is just not right. It is very twitchy on braking and corner exit. It is a bit like the Enzo, kinda all over the place.

I would love this car to handle like the real thing, so I am humbly requesting a tune of this car. Assuming the only parts installed are suspension, tires (sports only) and diff, what setting will settle this car out? I do not want to make it unreasonably faster than the real car, but it needs to be more stable.

Thanks. 👍

 

[Z1-AV69]

Your asking for quite a brave task. Something with the modeling of this car seems not to be right. The real-world descriptions say it brakes awesome and allows higher corner speeds than other cars of that range while in game those are the two big weaknesses of this car. It especially seems to lack front grip while the traction of the rear is good. The biggest strength of the car is imho the transmission. The stock one actually works with every tune and the shifting is imho the best in the whole game.
The MP4-12C was the first supercar in my garage, yet even after thousands of kilometers I couldn't find any magic trick to really overcome the lack of front grip. One has to be very careful not to ask too much different things from the front tires. Anyway, this is what I use as a "close to stock" tune:

I'd recommend adding a GT-Auto rear wing to your list, it helps quite a bit. The type A has subtle looks and does the job just as well as the bigger one. I'd recommend using the sports exhaust too, because imho that is the only exhaust producing a good sound.

Aero: 0/20
LSD: 8/30/15 (stock LSD is good too)
Height: -12/-10
Springs: 10.0/10.0
Damper Ext: 2/2
Damper Com: 2/2
Anti-Roll: 1/1
Camber (-): 1.0/0.7
Toe: 0.00/0.00
Brakes: 5/5 (ABS=1)

I like it on sports softs.

Edit: I you like it a little harder, increase all the dampers and rollbars by 1.
Edit 2: new & better tune here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5294425#post5294425

 

[Poppins]

Id go more like this

Aero: 0/20
LSD: 20/50/20 (stock LSD is good too)
Height: -20/-20
Springs: 10.0/12.0
Damper Ext: 5/5
Damper Com: 6/6
Anti-Roll: 5/5
Camber (-): 1.0/1.0
Toe: -0.10/+0.20
Brakes: 5/5 (ABS=1)

 

[Nvedamuthu]

Yeah, considering the reviews, I'm thinking about dishing out the dough for this car. Hopefully these settings will work.

 

[Poppins]

Ill do a little tune for it right now, I bought it and hated the ****in thing.

Doesnt want to turn. Ill figure it out though.

 

[gemini-erau]

my buddy has been tuning that car since the game came out basically, he still cant get it to behave properly, though he has gotten it to do some phenomenal things

 

[Seismica]

It looses traction over every slight bump, it doesn't grip enough and it has far too much wheelspin.

But yet, when you know how to treat it, this thing is faster than the 458 Italia and the 430 Scuderia at near any circuit (Exceptions are mainly very tight or very bumpy circuits). You have to be very gentle on the throttle. This thing has so much torque that is can out-accelerate the equivalent Ferrari when it's not at full throttle. It can even out-accelerate the Enzo. Just gently press the throttle and watch how quickly your speed goes up, it's acceleration is incredible. But if you apply too much it looses traction, which makes this car a bit of a beast to drive, kind of like the TVR Speed 12.

You of course, have to break much earlier for a corner than you do in say an 430 Scuderia, but the laptimes don't lie. I haven't attempted tuning myself, but how hard can it be to tweak the suspension to make this thing a little easier over the bumps and a little gripper in the medium speed corners? I'm sure a little brake balance tweaking can be good too.

 

[mykem]

In its stock form, this version in GT5 replicates some of the feel of the actual MP4-12C (from the review I've seen and read). First and foremost is the lack of Stabilizer bars. The first time I drove the car in GT5 (G25 wheel with the FFB set to 10), I knew that something felt different especially regarding suspension and specifically the anti-roll bars. I hadn't know until I began reading the car's review last week but now it's making more sense.

Despite the suppleness in the suspension and the lack of the "stabilizer" bars, the actual car is neither skittish nor does it exhibit a lot of weight shift (think Murcielago or the GTR which this is not). In GT5, you can feel the lack of body-roll and weight shift in the MP4 even compared to the similar 458. Which is probably the reason some of reviewers consider the feel of the car is somewhat cold and sterile. And it's the same sentiment I felt after driving the car in GT5.

Personally, I think the stock MP4-12C behaves closer to the actual car than the version in that other console sim (which to me felt totally character-less to the point of generic). With the Sport Hard which is the tires I use for most supercars (except the F1 which seems to "benefit" from lesser Comfort Soft), both the MP4 and the 458 clock in the high 7:40 on the Nordschleife (remember I have my FFB set to 10 which makes steering more of an effort and add to that the excuse that I tend to drive realistically). With both cars the brake sensitivity/bias is usually set at 5(F):3(R). In my testing both the Enzo and the ZR-1 are faster around that track while the GTR is about the same.

Which brings me to the current discussion as to what time will the MP4-12C do at the 'ring. With the stock tires (not the optional PZero Corsa), I'm betting it's in the 7:24 give and take 4 seconds. With the Corsa, it should be closer to 7:15. Hopefully they'll pay Marc Basseng to do the lap(s).

 

[budious]

Funny you should revive this thread today, I just bought this car today. I noticed the same things you did about the stock Sports Kit suspension. The spring rates are actually quite good for it, but the kit lacks the appropriate dampers and anti-roll bar settings. Purchase the fully customizable suspension, copy over the spring rates from sports kit. Tune the dampers up some more and adjusts the anti-roll bars. I ran a 6:52" on the Nordschleife with Engine Tune 3 and all weight reductions and race soft tires (DS3 and AT). Added rear wing type B, used it at minimum setting of 13, else it understeers like mad.

Also, I don't know if this is a result of the new patch but damage modeling is quite nice:

 

[Z1-AV69]

The stock spring rates are indeed good for the overall balancing. But the the big difference between front and rear makes it impossible to turn in while on the brake. It's manageable, but not optimal.

Can we expect a tune from you, budious? I'd be curios...

 

[budious]

I don't have the setting right in front of me but if I remember correctly, something along the lines of:

Ride Height 0 / 0
Spring Rate 10.0 / 13.0
Extension 7 / 7
Compression 8 / 8
Anti-Roll Bar 4 / 5
default camber/toe

w/ LSD @ 5/5/5
w/ Aero @ 0/13
w/ Engine Tune 3
w/ all weight reduction
w/ chassis reinforcement
w/ race soft
*everything else stock

6:52" clean lap on Nordschleife... was just a rough trial run, not a dailed in tune.

 

[Slurm]

Racing soft tyres. Well I can just about do that time on sports tyres in a Mc F1 with stock power/weight and no aero.

 

[Bigbazz]

I was really disapointed with this car, i'm a big Mclaren fan, the F1 is incredible in game but the Mp4-12c is one of the slowest supercars in its power range. Of all the cars in the 500-700bhp range i tested at the top gear test track, the Mp4-12c was one of the, if not the slowest. Also the car in game sounds like its on helium, it sounds nothing like that in real life. Shame .

I will try your settings however, a 6.52 at Nord is impressive for the Mp4

 

[Slurm]

I just had a go in this at the 'ring, and it's pretty obvious that downforce is the problem: When you fly over the jump, the front wants to touch the sky while the rear stays stuck to the ground. Nothing we can do about that though...

 

[Bigbazz]

Heres an example list of power laps i did at the Top Gear Test Track, every car is stock with sports soft tyres and has had an oil change, apart from the GTR specs Mclaren F1 which is fully modded with no oil change or power upgrades. In each case i did about 3-5 laps around then moved on.

Pagani Zonda R '09 (772Bhp) - 1:08.144
Mclaren F1 Road '94 (GTR Specs 616 Bhp) - 1:08.598
Mclaren F1 Road '94 (657 Bhp) - 1:09.404
Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09 (1018 Bhp) - 1:10.152
Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (C6) '09 (652 Bhp) - 1:10.897
Ferrari Enzo 02' (672 Bhp) - 1:10.982
Ferrari 430 Scuderia '07 (517bhp) - 1.11.365
Ferrari 458 Italia '09 (573 Bhp) - 1:11.417
Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR '08 (619Bhp) - 1:11.498
Nissan GT-R Vspec '09 (517 Bhp) - 1:11.571
Ford GT '06 (561 Bhp) - 1:11.574
Mclaren Mercedes SLR '09 (629 Bhp) - 1:11.636
Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 Chrome (642 Bhp) 1:11.705
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 '08 (569Bhp) - 1:11.805
Mercedes SLS AMG '10 (570 Bhp) - 1:11.911
Mclaren MP4-12c 10' (615bhp) - 1:11.981


Take these with a pinch of salt, they are the kind of "jump in the car and give it a blast" laps, done at completely different times over months. Some cars take more time to learn than others before you can go fast, different days will effect my driving, and lastly there have been many patches over the course of the time i did these laps, I don't think they would affect the times but I can't be sure. I can put a bet that most cars will go faster easily, for example i'd put a bet that the 458 would go faster than the scuderia if I tried it again, and the scuderia lap was recent and was far from perfect. I'm sure the Mclaren Mp4-12c could go faster, but it was a fair comparison and i genuinely believe it is probably slowest on my list for a good reason.

 

[budious]

I just had a go in this at the 'ring, and it's pretty obvious that downforce is the problem: When you fly over the jump, the front wants to touch the sky while the rear stays stuck to the ground. Nothing we can do about that though...

Short touch on the brakes before the crest helps, I was able to keep the nose level as it came off the ground, land in rotation if you turn slightly before liftoff, and powerslide around corner, is much pro.

I'd prefer not to use Race Soft... but I was just f'ing around with a new purchase. This was not a tune but a rough trial on my part.

 

[Bigbazz]

Thinking on this, its a shame that some of these roadcars need to be corrected by installing upgrades, one of my favourite things in this game is to drive cars stock. But sometimes it is worth it.

I don't think the problem is that the car is really bad, its just that it is really worse than the other cars in its competition range.

 

[Slurm]

Yeah I don't think it's an awful car, or that it's useless because it doesn't jump well! It's just that you can tell a lot about what's going on by watching how a car behaves over jumps in the game.

 

[Turtle]

I'm a novice tuner, but it seems I'm pretty good at this tuning thing. I bought one of these yesterday, so I may give it a shot (But mine is fully tuned, on sports soft tires, sorry). This should be a good test for me, but I did make a fully tuned Viper ACR decent in the bends, so I might be able to do this. I'll post my results if I can do this, may be a while though, I'm currently busy writing reviews for tunes on these forums, and I don't have much time to play anyway. What tracks should I tune it on? The tracks I have in mind are: Trial Mountain, Suzuka, Monza, Nurburgring Nordschleife, and, Eiger Nordwand Short Track.

 

[Z1-AV69]

I don't have the setting right in front of me but if I remember correctly, something along the lines of:

Ride Height 0 / 0
Spring Rate 10.0 / 13.0
Extension 7 / 7
Compression 8 / 8
Anti-Roll Bar 4 / 5
default camber/toe

w/ LSD @ 5/5/5
w/ Aero @ 0/13
w/ Engine Tune 3
w/ all weight reduction
w/ chassis reinforcement
w/ race soft
*everything else stock

6:52" clean lap on Nordschleife... was just a rough trial run, not a dailed in tune.

This is indeed pretty stable. For my taste not agile enough, I'm always afraid I don't make it trough those light bends. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Adrenaline]

What tracks should I tune it on?

Trial Mountain is usually considered a good place, that can be used at multiple tracks.

 

[budious]

Trial Mountain is a bit extreme in some areas to say it really equates to good tuning that applies to the rest of the courses in game. I think testing on Deep Forest or Nordschleife is more neutral in that regard.

This is indeed pretty stable. For my taste not agile enough, I'm always afraid I don't make it trough those light bends. Thanks for sharing!

I just recalled the spec roughly off the top of my head, but it's possible the rear anti-roll bar was +2; so try 3/5 or 4/6, etc. Should give you some more oversteer in cornering.

 

[Z1-AV69]

I just recalled the spec roughly off the top of my head, but it's possible the rear anti-roll bar was +2; so try 3/5 or 4/6, etc. Should give you some more oversteer in cornering.

I'll probably stay with my setup posted earlier (but with all dampers and rollbars +1 for racing softs). With your power and weight specs (which are very nice for the car) my first lap Nordschleife was 6:48. I think low 6:4x should be possible.
I just like to compare to what others are doing. But I usually find my taste to be quite different. I actually want my cars to have the rear step out if I put the throttle flat during corning. I like to be able to corner very tight too and I don't mind body roll as long as the car is balanced and stays controllable. But anyway: I was just curios what you did, thanks again.

 

[DMoss84]

I agree completely with the original poster.

This car does not reflect real world performance in the game. Of course the devs had to somewhat guess the cars performance in development of the game. Even tho they claim their physics model will reflect performance from build quality - maybe some things were withheld when it came to the mp4-12c..

The car does handle great when dialed in. However, to truly dial this car in on the game takes a LOT of time, trial and error, and applying tuning techniques not used in any other application (that I've come across). I have 4,800 miles on my MP4 and only just figured out the careful balance of changes it needed to compete with the likes of the other supercars of its caliber. Now I almost never place below top 4 in online races against 15 other drivers with it and regularly place first by good margins.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-suspension-walkaround.html

The brake steering is evidently not programmed in, and the suspension is clearly not connected via hydraulics basing how the car responds to roll bars and camber. Also, in game the tires are much skinnier than in real life.

 

[budious]

Good read, didn't know the car had all that engineering behind it. Maybe it will get corrected in a future update.

 

[DMoss84]

Good read, didn't know the car had all that engineering behind it. Maybe it will get corrected in a future update.

Just wait til mclaren posts an official nurburgring lap.

 

[Flamingpancake]

I don't know what everybody is complaining about with the mp4-12c
As long as you have racing softs and good tuning it's a great car and performs in the same league as the r8 merci SV SLS among others. It's a top ten road car in the game!

 

[budious]

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-suspension-walkaround.html

The brake steering is evidently not programmed in, and the suspension is clearly not connected via hydraulics basing how the car responds to roll bars and camber. Also, in game the tires are much skinnier than in real life.

Actually, I'm not entirely sure it is not programmed in anymore. I was playing with this car some more using the default spring rates from included stock Sports Kit on the Fully Customized setup. When you take the car to a track like Rome Circuit, where there are many right hand corners and for the exceptions of the two chicanes you only have two short left turns to make, you will notice the longer and harder you steer this car under throttle through a corner the more rigid and understeer develops, but make a sudden direction change and it results in a snap oversteer in response. While driving on a straightaway you can swerve back and forth and the steering also feels very loose, so now it got me thinking that since this system is computer controlled, then perhaps the Sports Kit defaulting to an anti-roll setting of 1, perhaps mirrors the softest setting and perhaps a factory default. Upgrading to the FC suspension may unlock the ability to reprogram the hydraulic controller to respond differently depending on the anti-roll bar setting programmed for track preferences, etc. Need to play with this some more but it definitely feels different than any other car in this regard.

 

[Poppins]

to me it just feels like it doesnt have enough downforce

 

[peninc]

On sport soft tyres this is actually my favorite car to drive in the whole game narrowly beating out the 458 italia. I did have to put some time into learning the nuances of applying the throttle out of corners but the braking on this car is impeccably stable and it is a monster in acceleration.

I'm not sure why some of you think its its not up to snuff compared to the other cars in its class. I use it to smoke the competition on almost any track. The car is really light though and as a result over bumps it loses traction if you dont anticipate and handle accordingly. That being said i absolutely love it except for the sound. I wish PD could patch that.