Men's Rights

[eran0004]

The problem with the tweet? Well it's complete nonsense. To say men cannot experience sexism is like saying white people cannot experience racism. It defies logic.

It doesn't say men cannot experience sexism, it says that there is no such thing. And that depends entirely on what you mean by sexism.

 

[The McMerc]

It doesn't say men cannot experience sexism, it says that there is no such thing. And that depends entirely on what you mean by sexism.

So if I were to say all men should be killed because they are stupid that wouldn't be sexist?

 

[TenEightyOne]

As long as aggressive in-your-face feminism exists, I have no reason whatsoever to stand opposed to a counter-weight of sorts.

The counter-weight exists, it's normalised society, as it stands.

Those who assume your average Joe - like myself - is a potential rapist at any time because of what I've got in my pants - really have big problems.

That's a slightly childish way of putting it. Got a source to show that equality campaigners automatically call your demographic rapists?

It doesn't say men cannot experience sexism, it says that there is no such thing. And that depends entirely on what you mean by sexism.

Please elaborate...

 

[eran0004]

So if I were to say all men should be killed because they are stupid that wouldn't be sexist?

If you were in a position of power and seriously claimed that all men should be killed because they are stupid, then yes it would. And that seems to be her point, that kind of statements from people in power doesn't exist.

 

[Joel]

So if I were to say all men should be killed because they are stupid that wouldn't be sexist?

Like many isms there's an academic definition used atop an ivory tower which isn't really the way average people use the word. Like most people, when I say sexist or racist I mean prejudiced ideas or opinions attributed to sex or race. In social justice communities they mean power + prejudice on a macro scale, and are talking more about institutional racism. The difference in that context is that men holding prejudiced views will also have the institutional power to oppress women based on those views. If women believe men are meatheads they don't have the power to leverage that prejudice, while if men believe women are weak and need to be protected, they have the power to leverage that into millenia of women being confined to homemaking.

I don't agree entirely with that stuff, just explaining. The realities are always more complicated. It's the same thing with race issues, when people say "you can't be racist against white people", they mean your prejudices against white people aren't going to become an institutional bias against white people, because white people already control the institutions.

That's a slightly childish way of putting it. Got a source to show that equality campaigners automatically call your demographic rapists?

Amazes me how much people miss the point on this stuff. The evil feminists aren't literally saying that every single man is a rapist. They're saying that the aggregate of a male dominated culture's beliefs about women lead to women being the victims of sexual assault and rape at much higher rates. They're not saying all men are rapists, they're not saying all rapes are committed by men with female victims. They're saying that in our society women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault because of beliefs men hold.

It's like if I said the rate of concussions among American football players is higher than among PGA golfers, and then people rushed to find examples of NFL players who don't have concussions and said "not all NFL players!". Or rushed to find an example of a golfer with a concussion to say "golfers get concussions too!".

 

[Carbonox]

The counter-weight exists, it's normalised society, as it stands.

That's a slightly childish way of putting it. Got a source to show that equality campaigners automatically call your demographic rapists?

Where did I paint equality campaigners like that? Throughout my post, I didn't see myself taking jabs at anyone but the angry, nasty, radical souls that have gone from true equality campaigners to misandrists with an illogical hatred towards a whole gender.

I could link you to /r/pussypass to show how far women can get with ludicrous claims in our current society though...

 

[Exorcet]

I think there might be legitimate reasons for a support group to focus on one group of people. The easiest example would probably involve location, like Africans focusing on issues in Africa. Sure there are problems elsewhere, but they can make the biggest impact at home.

That said I agree with the notion put forth earlier that the goal should be equality for everyone. That's how I see things.

 

[Famine]

If you were in a position of power and seriously claimed that all men should be killed because they are stupid, then yes it would. And that seems to be her point, that kind of statements from people in power doesn't exist.

Except her point is from only the very top level - that of government - as she perceives there to be a patriarchy.

"Power" is only the sum total of force you can muster in an instant (literally... power = force/time). Women can easily display a sexist attitude towards men if, at that moment, they have more power than men.

 

[A2K78]

I don't support rights for anybody(male, female, child, or whatever) other than the rights of the individual. All this talk of gender equality is stupid an reinforce the collectivist/marxist mindset.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't support rights for anybody(male, female, child, or whatever) other than the rights of the individual. All this talk of gender equality is stupid an reinforce the collectivist/marxist mindset.

So the rights of all people should be equal?

 

[eran0004]

Except her point is from only the very top level - that of government - as she perceives there to be a patriarchy.

"Power" is only the sum total of force you can muster in an instant (literally... power = force/time). Women can easily display a sexist attitude towards men if, at that moment, they have more power than men.

Indeed, it seems like she's talking about structural sexism.

I don't support rights for anybody(male, female, child, or whatever) other than the rights of the individual. All this talk of gender equality is stupid an reinforce the collectivist/marxist mindset.

What exactly is the right of the individual? And how does gender equality reinforce the collectivist/marxist mindset?

 

[squadops]

Here is a warrior claiming the internet feminist movement, liek this post to end visual rape, has dropped it's equality for all in favor of who's the biggest victim here? I've always wondered who the big boogie man is perpetuating all the injustice.

 

[The McMerc]

Like many isms there's an academic definition used atop an ivory tower which isn't really the way average people use the word. Like most people, when I say sexist or racist I mean prejudiced ideas or opinions attributed to sex or race. In social justice communities they mean power + prejudice on a macro scale, and are talking more about institutional racism. The difference in that context is that men holding prejudiced views will also have the institutional power to oppress women based on those views. If women believe men are meatheads they don't have the power to leverage that prejudice, while if men believe women are weak and need to be protected, they have the power to leverage that into millenia of women being confined to homemaking.

I don't agree entirely with that stuff, just explaining. The realities are always more complicated. It's the same thing with race issues, when people say "you can't be racist against white people", they mean your prejudices against white people aren't going to become an institutional bias against white people, because white people already control the institutions.


Amazes me how much people miss the point on this stuff. The evil feminists aren't literally saying that every single man is a rapist. They're saying that the aggregate of a male dominated culture's beliefs about women lead to women being the victims of sexual assault and rape at much higher rates. They're not saying all men are rapists, they're not saying all rapes are committed by men with female victims. They're saying that in our society women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault because of beliefs men hold.

It's like if I said the rate of concussions among American football players is higher than among PGA golfers, and then people rushed to find examples of NFL players who don't have concussions and said "not all NFL players!". Or rushed to find an example of a golfer with a concussion to say "golfers get concussions too!".

That logic seems to work when you think that yes, we do live in a patriarchal society. However, in schools women make up most of teachers, so would it not be the other way round?

 

[TenEightyOne]

That logic seems to work when you think that yes, we do live in a patriarchal society. However, in schools women make up most of teachers, so would it not be the other way round?

That's true at primary level in both the USA and UK but the balance is much better at secondary level. When you get to governance and curriculum writing... very few women.

 

[The McMerc]

That's true at primary level in both the USA and UK but the balance is much better at secondary level. When you get to governance and curriculum writing... very few women.

In an actual school environment though. Also the curriculum writer for my school is a woman (just commenting)

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You must go to a very tiny school, then.

 

[Imari]

That logic seems to work when you think that yes, we do live in a patriarchal society. However, in schools women make up most of teachers, so would it not be the other way round?

Just because there are some professions (or sections of professions) that are more likely to have a female majority, doesn't say anything about the overall state of the society.

If some professions are male dominated, then either some other professions will be female dominated or you'll have a lot of unemployed females.

 

[The McMerc]

Just because there are some professions (or sections of professions) that are more likely to have a female majority, doesn't say anything about the overall state of the society.

If some professions are male dominated, then either some other professions will be female dominated or you'll have a lot of unemployed females.

I'm not saying we don't live in a male dominated society - I think we do. I'm saying that the notion that sexism against men does not exist because sexism is prejudice + power does not make sense in a matriarchal place like a school, therefore proving that idea to be wrong.

You must go to a very tiny school, then.

No, I actually go to a very large school.

 

[TexRex]

The problem with the tweet? Well it's complete nonsense.

No shortage of that on social media.

How long has this particular "movement" been around, anyway? We're coming up on a century since women here gained the right to vote. I can't help but think it wouldn't have begun at all if not for social media--where it's all too easy to start a "movement." Don't get me wrong, good has come from it, but it's also provided a pedestal for people who probably don't even deserve a piece of paper rolled into a cone to spew their bull through.

Equality sounds great to me. I can also support people being held accountable for their actions.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

No, I actually go to a very large school.

Well, I teach in a very large school, and it takes three people to write the curriculum for a single unit of work in one faculty. So I don't see how you can physically have one person write all of the curriculum content for your school.

 

[The McMerc]

Well, I teach in a very large school, and it takes three people to write the curriculum for a single unit of work in one faculty. So I don't see how you can physically have one person write all of the curriculum content for your school.

I probably worded it badly. She is the curriculum coordinator.

No shortage of that on social media.

How long has this particular "movement" been around, anyway? We're coming up on a century since women here gained the right to vote. I can't help but think it wouldn't have begun at all if not for social media--where it's all too easy to start a "movement." Don't get me wrong, good has come from it, but it's also provided a pedestal for people who probably don't even deserve a piece of paper rolled into a cone to spew their bull through.

Equality sounds great to me. I can also support people being held accountable for their actions.

Anita Sarkeesian however is a very well known feminist who received donations of $250,000 and has a successful YouTube channel with hundreds of thousands of followers; not someone you'd expect to hear nonsense from. Men's Rights groups, to my knowledge, have been around for decades. You're right though, social media has been a big kickstarter for it. Unfortunately, although somewhat inevitably, there are a couple of people who are clearly have it out for women, but mostly there are good people.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I probably worded it badly. She is the curriculum coordinator.

For the entire school? We have two per faculty - one for the junior years, and one for the seniors. We have a Head Teacher of Administration who co-ordinates between them, but he doesn't set the content; he works timetables, room allocations and exam centres. And every school I have ever taught in is built along the same lines.

 

[The McMerc]

For the entire school? We have two per faculty - one for the junior years, and one for the seniors. We have a Head Teacher of Administration who co-ordinates between them, but he doesn't set the content; he works timetables, room allocations and exam centres. And every school I have ever taught in is built along the same lines.

Our school is split up into Junior and Senior, which are two different buildings; she is Curriculum Coordinator for the Senior school.

 

[TexRex]

Do you feel you or your education is suffering at the hands of the woman (*shudder*) presiding over your curriculum? It's probably a good use of their abilities; then again, I suppose some people think they have no business doin' nuthin' but birth'n sum babies and fryin' up sum yard bird.

Not to force you into speculation or anything, but how would you imagine the number of women that have committed the act of rape with a male victim compares to the number of male rapists with female victims? How many women have falsely accused men of rape compared to the number of men guilty of rape? Moreover, how many women have falsely accused men of rape compared to women who haven't accused men guilty of rape due to fear and/or humiliation? I'd bet good money on the latters heavily outweighing their respective formers in all instances.

 

[The McMerc]

Do you feel you or your education is suffering at the hands of the woman (*shudder*) presiding over your curriculum? It's probably a good use of their abilities; then again, I suppose some people think they have no business doin' nuthin' but birth'n sum babies and fryin' up sum yard bird.

Not to force you into speculation or anything, but how would you imagine the number of women that have committed the act of rape with a male victim compares to the number of male rapists with female victims? How many women have falsely accused men of rape compared to the number of men guilty of rape? Moreover, how many women have falsely accused men of rape compared to women who haven't accused men guilty of rape due to fear and/or humiliation? I'd bet good money on the latters heavily outweighing their respective formers in all instances.

Please do not think for a second that I believe women's place in society is staying at home cooking and making babies. I have the absolute opposite of that belief. I'm not suggesting for a second that I don't want a woman in charge of my curriculum - in fact I think it's fantastic that she is, if what prisonermonkeys said is true. Yes, you are probably right in that the latters outweigh the formers, but the issue at hand is that all the issues involving men (the formers) are not represented or recognised in society nearly as much as the issue involving women, if at all. All issues, whether they be men's or women's need addressing.

 

[TexRex]

Or, you know, need to not exist at all, thereby eliminating the need to address them. That brings us back to the whole equality thing. Rape isn't an act of sexual release but rather an assertion of dominance committed by those who believe their victim is somehow less than themselves--in a world where all are equal, such a difference wouldn't exist and the act would, perhaps, no longer be committed.

 

[TenEightyOne]

In an actual school environment though. Also the curriculum writer for my school is a woman (just commenting)

So you're not in the UK or Australia, their natcurrics are headed by men (or bodies consisting mostly of men).

 

[The McMerc]

So you're not in the UK or Australia, their natcurrics are headed by men (or bodies consisting mostly of men).

Nope, I live in Australia.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Nope, I live in Australia.

Then the head of the Nat Curric board was a Prof. Barry McGraw up until the primary completion in 2011 (@prisonermonkeys will be able to shed more light on that, I think). While it has a split M/F board the Australian national curriculum executive has, if I recall correctly, a male head (still Prof Barry McGraw), a male deputy and a male COO.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the deployment of curricula but the overall strands around which in-school staff have to deploy their teaching. I'm making the point that the heads of curricula in Oz/UK are men.

As an aside; I remember many years ago that my form head shared an Equality in Education document that had been circulated to state schools (the board had 11 men and 1 woman). To balance teaching (pre-NC) it suggested that wherever a "male" item (such as paint) was mentioned a "female" item (such as salad cream) should be mentioned.

Thank goodness we've moved on a very long way from there.

 

[The McMerc]

Then the head of the Nat Curric board was a Prof. Barry McGraw up until the primary completion in 2011 (@prisonermonkeys will be able to shed more light on that, I think). While it has a split M/F board the Australian national curriculum executive has, if I recall correctly, a male head (still Prof Barry McGraw), a male deputy and a male COO.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the deployment of curricula but the overall strands around which in-school staff have to deploy their teaching. I'm making the point that the heads of curricula in Oz/UK are men.

As an aside; I remember many years ago that my form head shared an Equality in Education document that had been circulated to state schools (the board had 11 men and 1 woman). To balance teaching (pre-NC) it suggested that wherever a "male" item (such as paint) was mentioned a "female" item (such as salad cream) should be mentioned.

Thank goodness we've moved on a very long way from there.

Would you dispute that in an actual, physical school environment is matrairchal?