Mexico swine flu deaths spur global epidemic fears
- Thread starter Delirious
- 141 comments
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- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Send a letter into the local paper asking why they are doing it when they don't do it for the seasonal flu which spreads faster and has a higher fatality rate every year.
EDIT: I just saw this: Ron Paul on CNN stopping just short of accusing the government of scaremongering to gain more power. Well, actually he does everything but use the word.
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- 29,103
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Yes, a bit overdramatic - but at the same time, Ron Paul is completely wrong to say that swine flu is "a total non-event". A study published in the journal Science on Monday reports that, clinically, this strain of flu is as severe as the Asian flu strain of 1957, which killed 2 million people. Ron Paul is basically trying to say that the whole issue is being purposely exploited by government in order to attain more power over people, by means of instiling fear - just a tad paranoic, and a not-untypical whine of his (which, ironically, could easily be construed as political posturing itself). Even if governments across the globe have over-reacted (which I don't think they have) and/or the media have made too much of a big deal out of it (as they typically do with just about everything these days), Ron Paul is playing a dangerous game trying to turn this into a political issue. According to his paranoid take, new variants of flu virus exist solely to give Big Government an excuse to further their evil socialist tendencies... what nonsense. So what if he has 'seen it all before' - it doesn't mean that he must be right this time.
Judging from the report published in Science, it looks pretty clear that this strain of H1N1 flu virus still poses a pandemic risk, that it really is more dangerous than seasonal flu, but that most of us probably needn't worry too much about it (one thing Ron Paul is right about). One thing the political and media reaction to this has revealed, however, is that it is very difficult to get a coherent message across. In this regard, I don't think Ron Paul's attempts to politicize this issue does us any favours at all - by all means, advise people to keep things in perspective and not to worry unduly about the minimal risk this virus currently poses to you, but for goodness' sake, don't try to tell me that the swine flu story is a socialist plot
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- 86,503
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
I can think of one government (or indeed parliament) which has significantly overplayed the risk - and which would hope that the story had rumbled on just into this week. So that other news didn't merit significant coverage...
The Asian 'Flu pandemic of 1957 - though I am not old enough to remember
- killed about as many people in "developed" countries as a normal year of influenza, and only about twice the rate of normal seasonal 'flu now (about 70,000 deaths in 1957-58 in the USA, compared to about 36,000 a year presently). In "less developed" countries, the situation seems more severe, running at four times the rate (2 million in 1957-58 worldwide, compared to about 500,000 a year presently).
It should be noted that the typical 'flu death is someone who is very young, very old or in some way immunocompromised (HIV, transplant patient on immunosuppressants, someone recovering from a prior infection/illness). The same seems to apply to headline-grabbing influenzae - indeed of the three to die in the USA so far, one was a Mexican child who had arrived in the country three weeks earlier and another was a 30 year old man with an underlying heart condition (I'm not aware of the status of the other).
Given that the virus has the infectivity of influenza and access to both of the continental land masses and Australia and Japan and the UK and has so far managed only 4,300 confirmed infections and killed 53 in three weeks (by comparison, the UK alone has seen nearly 200 deaths from seasonal 'flu in the same timeframe), you'd have to say that the risk of either infection or death anywhere really is very minimal.
The Asian 'Flu pandemic of 1957 - though I am not old enough to remember
- killed about as many people in "developed" countries as a normal year of influenza, and only about twice the rate of normal seasonal 'flu now (about 70,000 deaths in 1957-58 in the USA, compared to about 36,000 a year presently). In "less developed" countries, the situation seems more severe, running at four times the rate (2 million in 1957-58 worldwide, compared to about 500,000 a year presently).It should be noted that the typical 'flu death is someone who is very young, very old or in some way immunocompromised (HIV, transplant patient on immunosuppressants, someone recovering from a prior infection/illness). The same seems to apply to headline-grabbing influenzae - indeed of the three to die in the USA so far, one was a Mexican child who had arrived in the country three weeks earlier and another was a 30 year old man with an underlying heart condition (I'm not aware of the status of the other).
Given that the virus has the infectivity of influenza and access to both of the continental land masses and Australia and Japan and the UK and has so far managed only 4,300 confirmed infections and killed 53 in three weeks (by comparison, the UK alone has seen nearly 200 deaths from seasonal 'flu in the same timeframe), you'd have to say that the risk of either infection or death anywhere really is very minimal.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Considering the definition of pandemic, it isn't hard to reach that point if just one guy gets on a plane. And I am iffy on that study as it is only analyzing the outbreak in Mexico, which was unnoticed for a while. If they judged the outbreak by all cases their numbers would be significantly different.Judging from the report published in Science, it looks pretty clear that this strain of H1N1 flu virus still poses a pandemic risk, that it really is more dangerous than seasonal flu, but that most of us probably needn't worry too much about it (one thing Ron Paul is right about). One thing the political and media reaction to this has revealed, however, is that it is very difficult to get a coherent message across. In this regard, I don't think Ron Paul's attempts to politicize this issue does us any favours at all - by all means, advise people to keep things in perspective and not to worry unduly about the minimal risk this virus currently poses to you, but for goodness' sake, don't try to tell me that the swine flu story is a socialist plot
And regarding Ron Paul: If you take into consideration that his first year in Congress was 1976, where he and one other Congressman, also a doctor, were the only people to vote against the government reactions that resulted in more deaths than the flu and then led to regulations that stifle vaccination production, all in violation of the Constitution, it is easy to see how government does, and did, use scary situations to grab a permanent hold on stuff that it shouldn't even get near. Add to that the fact that some Congress members were discussing similar possible actions (forced vaccination) this time around along with the DHS issuing a memo of actions in the event of pandemic that is nothing short of martial law, and he has a legitimate case. Oh sure, the initial intent is good, but once government gets in the door it is nearly impossible to get them to leave. It's like a stray cat. You give it a little food and the next thing you know you are being awakened at 3:00 AM by it laying on your chest and staring at your face, wanting more food.
I should also add that when Dr. Paul has more time, such as in a book, he does explain that he understands that most government intervention begins as good intention.
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
I love how people are like OMFG SWINE FLU IS A PANDEMIC OH NOES!!!!
when pandemic means. All it takes for it to be a pandemic is one person to be infected in mexico, and one ANYWHERE ELSE in south or north america.
So if Bob (fictional) from Buffalo gets swine flu, then goes to work as a cashier at the duty free store, and John from Canada gets it from him BAM! Pandemic.
when pandemic means. All it takes for it to be a pandemic is one person to be infected in mexico, and one ANYWHERE ELSE in south or north america.
So if Bob (fictional) from Buffalo gets swine flu, then goes to work as a cashier at the duty free store, and John from Canada gets it from him BAM! Pandemic.
- 5,603
- England, Warwickshire
- GTP_Sigma
There's nothing wrong with the word pandemic to describe swine flu as thats exactly what it is, its the media in the first place who seemed to blow the meaning of the word well out of proportion. The word pandemic is now associated with millions of people dying at the hands of a horrific and deadly virus, while that would be a pandemic so its the common cold, and that's not so scary to you and I.
Its a shame really, because people quickly become alarmed when the word 'pandemic' is batted around because nearly all the time its not something that should concern us.
What really annoys me about this whole swine flu media driven frenzy is that it was in this case, essentially crying wolf. There were people who even before we knew any solid details on swine flu, just said 'yeh, well look what happened to bird flu' and this is a dangerous attitude to take.
It's pretty much the media's fault that more people have taken this attitude, and the danger is that when the real day comes and people really need to be careful and take precautions people won't, because everyone thinks its just 'hyped' up by the media again just like swine flu.
- 401
- GTP_mindwise
- xbox?, my pc you mean?
I heard the stories about air circulation, and though i don''t think Biden was right, i certainly don't buy the '3 rows' statement either.
it's old news, but i like his take on just about everything it seems, so here's thunderf00t.
it's old news, but i like his take on just about everything it seems, so here's thunderf00t.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,285
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Pig Flu has invaded my town!
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/stor...tracts-H1N1-Virus/ATlE9qTpukKsu35NJCKoLg.cspx
Apparently everyone in Lake Orion knew about this except me. Way to go mass media, way to go 👍! Apparently since everyone in LO is a busy body and gossips with everyone else the news got around real quick.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/stor...tracts-H1N1-Virus/ATlE9qTpukKsu35NJCKoLg.cspx
Apparently everyone in Lake Orion knew about this except me. Way to go mass media, way to go 👍! Apparently since everyone in LO is a busy body and gossips with everyone else the news got around real quick.
mafia_boy
(Banned)
- 5,570
- GTP_Mafiaboy
Last Wednesday I had to go to hospital for some treatment for an illness I've been suffering from for the past month or so. While in the waiting room, two people walked in to the hospital off the street and said "yeah, we just came off the boat!" (The Pacific Dawn) and then found out there were another 10 potential swine flu carriers being segregated in the waiting room behind some movable barriers.
To say I've been paranoid about it the past week has been an understatement, especially in my present vulnerable state of health.
But I haven't had any symptoms that they all had which has been lucky for me. 👍
To say I've been paranoid about it the past week has been an understatement, especially in my present vulnerable state of health.
But I haven't had any symptoms that they all had which has been lucky for me. 👍
- 15,854
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
Well whats the stats on this now?? it seems the cases are starting to appear far more quickly than before... So many more confirmed cases... what about the mortality rate?? is this flu able to be cured??
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The stats are still much lower than seasonal flu in every conceivable way, considering that most related deaths so far seem to often show other health conditions involved, even ones that were previously undetected.
As for a cure: There is no "cure" for any virus, other than what your body can do naturally, which can be helped along by either a preventative vaccine, or something like Tamiflu, which prevents it from spreading while your body fights it off after you have gotten it.
Even if it does become as widely spread as seasonal flu, which is conceivable as past pandemic influenzas have become part of the seasonal flu mix, it mostly seems to just be killing people with pre-existing conditions. So, people with lung or heart conditions may need to worry the most, but that is the case with everything from spider/snake bites, weather sensitivity, common colds, or anything that adds stress to the body.
mafia_boy
(Banned)
- 5,570
- GTP_Mafiaboy
You go sit near people with swine flu like I had to, then tell me how you feel.
It's really a great feeling having people being infected from foreign shores with something unknown to this country coming within 5 feet of you and now 5 days later, you suddenly have an unmistakable cough that you can't get rid of!!I'm actually getting tested tomorrow because I've gotten worse through the day with this cough and now my son is now showing symptoms of a flu and he didn't go with me to the hospital. We both felt alright this morning when I made my previous post and now I have this super dry cough and my son has it too tonight but not as bad as me.
I'm just waiting to see it explode in Victoria to pandemic proportions because it's already on its way there. You already had another 100 cases confirmed today alone down there, up to 306. Atleast we can track all our cases here in NSW back to that bloody boat!
- 15,486
- UK
You're worried about a cough?
I am intrigued about one thing, if this swine flu originated in Mexico and everyone else who has had it, has some link back to there, how come the virus has gotten so weak? I know the Mexicans got their figures wrong and it was something like 80-100 who died. But how can a strain kill that many, then turn into something resembling a really average cold? Surely a strain maintains the same veracity passing from human to human, or does it weaken it?
I am intrigued about one thing, if this swine flu originated in Mexico and everyone else who has had it, has some link back to there, how come the virus has gotten so weak? I know the Mexicans got their figures wrong and it was something like 80-100 who died. But how can a strain kill that many, then turn into something resembling a really average cold? Surely a strain maintains the same veracity passing from human to human, or does it weaken it?
mafia_boy
(Banned)
- 5,570
- GTP_Mafiaboy
No, I'm worried that after being stuck near swine flu sufferers that I may have gotten it too now and have therefore spread it to my family because my son feels the same. I've just woken up and my chest is completely filled and I've just spent the past 10 minutes trying to cough the stuff out!! No good.
It can mutate into stronger or weaker forms. Diseases are funny things, that's why we spend billions on fighting the big ones.
mafia_boy
(Banned)
- 5,570
- GTP_Mafiaboy
I would've already slapped Nurofen down my guts hours ago Joey except the Doctors have banned me from it, it was making my other illness worse.
*just remembers* Hang on, I've still got some Panadeine Forte somewhere......solution found.
*moves as fast as my feeble body allows me*
Umm, can I pre-apologise to everyone for anything that I may say in the next 24hrs due to the medication after I take it?? Inhibition tends to go after taking it with me.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
It was actually less than 80-100 that died from the flu itself. It was unidentified and thus untreated, and then a lot of people with pre-existing conditions caught it because they didn't know to avoid it. But straight healthy people dying from swine flu in Mexico was less than 10.
But it is a previously unseen strain. We are better off than the Native Americans were when the Europeans landed, but it is still going to require more effort by our bodies to stop it.
But yes, lots of water and rest is the only thing you can do to help yourself if you can't take something like Tamiflu.
- 7,956
- BradleyH131
WINNAR. I may have SWINE FLUUUUU.
I've been hit with a pretty hard case of the Flu (and I never get the Flu), which I seem to have caught off my girlfriend's Uncle who also had it when I went to visit him one night for dinner. His house literally backs onto a primary school (Clifton Hill) which is closed because of all the kids that have been infected with Swine Flu from there.
I've been hit with a pretty hard case of the Flu (and I never get the Flu), which I seem to have caught off my girlfriend's Uncle who also had it when I went to visit him one night for dinner. His house literally backs onto a primary school (Clifton Hill) which is closed because of all the kids that have been infected with Swine Flu from there.
