MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

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Jordan
According to a source from the Wall Street Journal, Boeing and Rolls-Royce receive live telemetry data from 777 engines in 30 minute intervals. Apparently, the data from Flight 370 indicates the plane kept flying over four hours after the transponder was disabled.

Neither Boeing nor Rolls-Royce will make an official statement about the data, and for some reason this hasn't been announced by the authorities. :confused:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282
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So basically what you're saying is they flew the entire estimated time it should have as in respect to the travel plan and then even flew into their reserves...this makes no sense at all more so now.

prisonermonkeys
Whatever it was that the Chinese satellites spotted, they can't find it now.

The only scenario that I can think of to make sense of this is that the authorities believe the plane was hijacked - whether by passengers or crew - and has landed somewhere. They are making a show out of searching for the plane, waiting to see what the hijackers do. This implies that they have a fair idea as to where it could be, but don't want the hijackers to know.

As to why they might be doing this, I can only assume they want to avoid another Entebbe. Possibly if they think the plane has landed somewhere sensitive, like Myanmar
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That would be the biggest engineering by world govt's first off and though I think it would be spearheaded by the American's the other half of me says no and that China has the reigns and Boeing and RR are playing along to save face.

Though I doubt there is any reason they'd need to. The Trent 800 has been in use for more than 2 decades now and the engine it was derived from is still in use and twice that age. So basically one "accident" isn't going to put a question mark on the reliability more so it would be the people who maintained them coming under scrutiny. Boeing I can understand more so wanting to save face because of these warnings we just learned about but even still, we're talking about air frames that have been around two decades as well and the extend range version that is the subject of this case is only 12 years old.

TenEightyOne
Or a non-sub-write Clancy. One of his novels has Ryan becoming President after terrorists fly a 747 into... the Capitol Building? The White House?

Anyway, it's not the novel where Princess Diana fires an AK-47 from a speedboat.

Let's say the plane really has been landed somewhere. What's the likelihood that at least one of the superpowers now know exactly where? Pretty high, I'd say.
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High enough to where all players at this point in time know, and I'd say now they know we know and they want us all....

@axletramp I've already asked this myself a few pages back and it seems others don't want to start this dialogue possibly because there really isn't much to say afterwards but why.
 
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Jordan
According to a source from the Wall Street Journal, Boeing and Rolls-Royce receive live telemetry data from 777 engines in 30 minute intervals. Apparently, the data from Flight 370 indicates the plane kept flying over four hours after the transponder was disabled.

Neither Boeing nor Rolls-Royce will make an official statement about the data, and for some reason this hasn't been announced by the authorities. :confused:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282
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Maybe it flew to Panau.
 
TenEightyOne
Certainly money and resources aren't a limitation as this is a large-scale operation.

WSJ shows a map giving a potential flight range based on the length of time that the transponder was reportedly active. It's not correct because it's circular... they haven't taken into account wind drift at cruising altitude which could potentially add a 300-ish-mile offset over 4 hours cruising (dependent on heading, obviously).

The potential overall range if it kept flying beyond that is even greater as the plane was fuelled for Beijing and would therefore have had more range as a mandatory precaution.

@axletramp there are certainly some credible theories in there. For 11/9 I'd say that the aircraft actually hit a container full of fluid, if you look at the delay from the impact at one side to the pressure ejection at the other you can imagine the kind of awful pressures that the remaining body of the aircraft was piling into.

The SilkAir findings are relevant in terms of human intent but very out-of-date in a technical sense. From memory that was an analogue 737 I think?


Anyhow, here's the WSJ map I referred to;

AI-CH295_MALMAP_G_20140313035406.jpg
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Even though about three billion people live in that circle, it's understandable that in the unlikely event that the plane crashed on land no-one witnessed it. There are huge rural areas in that circle of mountains, deserts and jungles, particularly in China and Australia that could be virtually uninhabited. But the fact we have found no evidence of it so far suggests it's more than likely somewhere in the ocean.
 
PeterJB
Even though about three billion people live in that circle, it's understandable that in the unlikely event that the plane crashed on land no-one witnessed it. There are huge rural areas in that circle of mountains, deserts and jungles, particularly in China and Australia that could be virtually uninhabited. But the fact we have found no evidence of it so far suggests it's more than likely somewhere in the ocean.
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Think I remember seeing an episode of ACI where a plane crashed into a jungle and it took investigators a while to find it.
 
prisonermonkeys
Now the Malaysians have dismissed the idea that the plane kept flying for hours.
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At this rate Malaysia will soon be announcing that Kuala Lumpur was just a figment of the world's imagination and that this was all a terrible dream. The US will provide satellite proof that Malaysia did it for the insurance while the Chinese will quietly occupy the Spratly Islands and use Malaysian reconnaissance photos to prove that they were really there all along.
 
I wake up and find I'm in Bizarrostan.

Neither Lewis Carroll nor Ian Fleming could weave a more nonsensical plot.
 
TenEightyOne
At this rate Malaysia will soon be announcing that Kuala Lumpur was just a figment of the world's imagination and that this was all a terrible dream. The US will provide satellite proof that Malaysia did it for the insurance while the Chinese will quietly occupy the Spratly Islands and use Malaysian reconnaissance photos to prove that they were really there all along.
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So basically we were viewing an extended cut of lost...that's a bit sick on the Malaysian gov't part.

Dotini
I wake up and find I'm in Bizarrostan.

Neither Lewis Carroll nor Ian Fleming could weave a more nonsensical plot.
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What part is non-sense?
 
I never saw Lost, so if I just wrote it then I apologise :D

Just read this, @prisonermonkeys mentioned earlier that Malaysia were denying reports that the plane continued to transmit.

"The Wall Street Journal said that U.S. aviation investigators and national security officials believed the Boeing 777 flew for a total of five hours, based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from its Rolls-Royce Trent engines as part of a standard monitoring program. (r.reuters.com/ruw57v)

"Those reports are inaccurate," Malaysian Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein told a news conference. "As far as both Rolls-Royce and Boeing are concerned, those reports are inaccurate. The last (data) transmission from the aircraft was at 01:07 a.m.(local time) which indicated that everything was normal."

The whole thing sounds like a complete cluster****.

They either really are working behind the scenes on some incredible jungle rescue...or they just have no idea of what to do.
 
This plane has been hijacked to use it for an attack on the next NSS meeting in the Hague.

There. Silly story.
 
GTPorsche
The story doesn't mention it, but the US Navy is moving the USS Kidd to the Indian Ocean to begin searching for the plane.
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Are you sure Malaysian hasn't informed the U.S that no such ocean exists

TenEightyOne
I never saw Lost, so if I just wrote it then I apologise :D

Just read this, @prisonermonkeys mentioned earlier that Malaysia were denying reports that the plane continued to transmit.

"The Wall Street Journal said that U.S. aviation investigators and national security officials believed the Boeing 777 flew for a total of five hours, based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from its Rolls-Royce Trent engines as part of a standard monitoring program. (r.reuters.com/ruw57v)

"Those reports are inaccurate," Malaysian Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein told a news conference. "As far as both Rolls-Royce and Boeing are concerned, those reports are inaccurate. The last (data) transmission from the aircraft was at 01:07 a.m.(local time) which indicated that everything was normal."

The whole thing sounds like a complete cluster****.

They either really are working behind the scenes on some incredible jungle rescue...or they just have no idea of what to do.
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OR both
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Are you sure Malaysian hasn't informed the U.S that no such ocean exists
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Malaysia just confirmed that they've used radar plots, satellite images and a special camera to find Thailand.

Earlier reports that they'd found the plane were hastily amended when it turned out that the airline has, according to the head of Malaysian air safety "more than one that looks like that".
 
TenEightyOne
Malaysia just confirmed that they've used radar plots, satellite images and a special camera to find Thailand.
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By special they probably mean the camera a nice retired American couple gave them, oh those beach photos will make a great postcard.

Earlier reports that they'd found the plane were hastily amended when it turned out that the airline has, according to the head of Malaysian air safety "more than one that looks like that".
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:lol: gee they don't say, I'm not psychic but I'd be willing to bet my bank account they have an entire fleet that looks like it, I could be the head of air safety there and still live here.:dopey::sly:
 
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Strange coincidence. Irani people I know told me they were upset by some Malaysian document attacking them recently and decided to boycott traveling there. Some days later that plane disappears. Now there's a report saying the plane flew for 4 hours after the last transponder signal.

I know Malaysia are denying it. I know it's impossible to fly 1000 miles more than trip's original destination (not considering 400nm reserves). I know it's against the Jetstream. However I can't seem to take off my tin foil hat on this one.
 
ildd
@Keef @TenEightyOne if you don't mind me asking, have either of you flown a plane of this magnitude IRL, carrying passengers? Or even a 747.
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I haven't, and my opinion on how the plane would've operated without power is based on my swept-wing aerodynamics, performance and airline systems college courses.

Anyways, I see the new info about the engine maintenance info has already been posted. According to one of the articles, it looks like American investigators (who were finally given access to information thanks to Malaysia's ridiculously poor management of this situation) have openly considered sketchy business as a possibility. Given my school-related knowledge of previous accidents and the investigation process, I'm glad to see they immediately considered sketchy business. Some crazy things have happened but this accident is so weird it's suspicious.

At one briefing, according to this person, officials were told investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted "with the intention of using it later for another purpose."
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As I've said before, the technology exists in militaries around the world to hide a specific target from radar detection via another vehicle. If you know it could happen, you have to consider it as a possibly given this ridiculous lack of evidence. It seems American investigators have definitely put that option on the table.
 
TenEightyOne
EDIT: The actual SATCOM directive - I gave a bum steer earlier based on the dates I'd seen for the directive. This is it, and it's pretty clear that preventative action is needed. There's no reason to think that Malaysian Airlines didn't take that action, obviously. @Crash , over to you! I could design the system but I couldn't build anything to put it in ;)
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Looks like I found and read the wrong AD. I just read the one that you linked. The interesting thing is it says "...any indication of contact of a certain fastener to a bonding jumper...", which leads me to believe that there's unexpected galvanic corrosion causing the cracks up there.

Malaysian Airlines is an experienced operator of 777 and is a reputable airline. This isn't "Air Famine in Random War Zone" we're talking about. Malaysian should be following these directives and checking the planes. Only thing is they might have checked but missed the crack.

In terms of the original scribed or etched lines with painting that I referred to, I thought about it more and I think that may actually be referring to certain processes and steps taken during the manufacturing process rather than during final painting of livery.

Jordan
Neither Boeing nor Rolls-Royce will make an official statement about the data, and for some reason this hasn't been announced by the authorities. :confused:
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Neither company can make any substantial statements. Any real public statements made that may impact a recovery operation or an investigation can lead to civil action and penalties from the government. All information from post crash must be fed only to regulatory agencies (FAA, NTSB, etc.), and they get to decide when to release info to the public. The manufacturers' hands are tied.

LMSCorvetteGT2
So basically what you're saying is they flew the entire estimated time it should have as in respect to the travel plan and then even flew into their reserves...this makes no sense at all more so now.
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It actually kind of makes sense...

Here's another plausible scenario, this one doesn't have any nefarious intentions.

Plane is on autopilot. Something caused the plane to rapidly decompress, quick enough so that everyone on board loses consciousness almost immediately but not enough to be from catastrophic structural failure. Pilots can't get masks on quick enough. However, plane can still fly, and plane is still on autopilot, so the plane keeps flying and flying until it runs out of fuel, and without fuel, and with no conscious flight crew to glide it down, the plane falls out of the sky into the middle of the ocean, undetected.

With this, there are still certain pieces of the puzzle that don't fit, and I obviously don't know if that is what happened (and I'm not sure if we will even truly ever know), but that to me seems at least plausible.

AT's theory of pilot suicide or rouge agents onboard taking control of the aircraft seems plausible as well.

I have a feeling that governments aren't sharing with each other and with the public all that they know, and that they are looking at the wrong places...
 
Crash
Plane is on autopilot. Something caused the plane to rapidly decompress, quick enough so that everyone on board loses consciousness almost immediately but not enough to be from catastrophic structural failure. Pilots can't get masks on quick enough. However, plane can still fly, and plane is still on autopilot, so the plane keeps flying and flying until it runs out of fuel, and without fuel, and with no conscious flight crew to glide it down, the plane falls out of the sky into the middle of the ocean, undetected.
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That happened before, and some male flight attendant tried to take over only to pass out himself. Still, in that particular crash it didn't lose radar contact and they sent a fighter jet to check on it.

edit

helios flight 522
 
Keef
As I've said before, the technology exists in militaries around the world to hide a specific target from radar detection via another vehicle. If you know it could happen, you have to consider it as a possibly given this ridiculous lack of evidence. It seems American investigators have definitely put that option on the table.
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You could maybe fool non military radar with these, but any kind of ECM probably should have put a military radar on alert. You'd hide the airliner, but you'd be alerting those nearby that you were hiding something.
 
If a superpower were to risk a hijacking, it could only be China or USA.

If by China, then the route of the plane would be South China Sea to a mainland military airbase.
If by USA, then destination Australia?
 
Crash
Here's another plausible scenario, this one doesn't have any nefarious intentions.

Plane is on autopilot. Something caused the plane to rapidly decompress, quick enough so that everyone on board loses consciousness almost immediately but not enough to be from catastrophic structural failure. Pilots can't get masks on quick enough. However, plane can still fly, and plane is still on autopilot, so the plane keeps flying and flying until it runs out of fuel, and without fuel, and with no conscious flight crew to glide it down, the plane falls out of the sky into the middle of the ocean, undetected.
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A situation like this has happened before, most recently in 2005 with the Greek Helios flight 522.

Numerous mistakes were made by the crew in identifying the problem, this first of which was the misidentification of a warning which sounded in-flight. It was a "low cabin altitude" warning caused by a leak of cabin pressure. They decided the warning was something about takeoff configuration, a serious mistake in judgement considering that warning can only sound on the ground.

Besides the mistakes of the pilots, everything else that happened did so, including the scrambling of millitary jets to inercept the airliner. This should have happened with the Malaysia flight had it continued to fly on autopilot without any communication. This situation has already been covered in the past.

Which brings me back to the idea that if this plane did continue on autopilot or without communication, the things that should have happened to reestablish contact didn't happen and probably for a reason. What the reason is open to speculation.
 
Dotini
If a superpower were to risk a hijacking, it could only be China or USA.

If by China, then the route of the plane would be South China Sea to a mainland military airbase.
If by USA, then destination Australia?
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Why hide the plane in Australia?

By current indications, you could fly the plane back to the Kuala Lumpur airport and the Malaysian Transportation Admin couldn't find it.;):D

GTsail
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
So basically what you're saying is they flew the entire estimated time it should have as in respect to the travel plan and then even flew into their reserves...this makes no sense at all more so now.
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Let's be clear that it wasn't Jordan saying it; he just bought the piece of the puzzle to the table. 👍

The engine data transmission piece of the puzzle hasn't been thrown away. Just used judiciously for all concerned (including Wall Street.)
In addition it is now known that MAS did not purchase the other data transmission packages that were available for this plane, just the RR package.
If they had purchased the additional packages (which they apparently didn't, to keep the cost down, and because they were confident enough in the huge redundancies, active or otherwise, built into the 777) the jet would have been talking a lot more to the Ground.

Also it's being mentioned many times that this was a Trent 800; this may not be so either.
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/777family/pf/pf_200product.page
As far as I can ascertain it would be the Trent 895.

axletramp
How about pilot suicide? I thought this was an interesting read from a random guy on FB which may or may not have some merit:


.........the primary theory is that he committed suicide. Supporting their deliberate-act conclusion, the NTSB report determined that no mechanical failure scenario could result in airplane movements that matched those recorded by the flight data recorder.

.......................NTSB investigators hypothesised that this was so that the Captain could concoct a pretense for First Officer to leave the cockpit before pulling the FDR circuit breaker which would have triggered warning lights on the console. The NTSB, by use of computer modelling, concluded that the crash was the result of deliberate flight control inputs, most likely by the captain.
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None of these were ever proved. But, yes, quite likely.

niky
Depends on how good the satellite cameras are. If you print gigantic photos of jungle canopy on your two mile long concrete runway, think they'll notice? :D
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Sorry. Actual performances may vary and would be highly classified. :)


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Now the search field has been expanded, instead of narrowing down - which is only going to make it more difficult and time-consuming. It looks like finally all the search parties have got their acts coordinated, and are staking out territories to search. Usually we would know the location of the plane, and then go search for the debris. At this point we are still searching for the plane.

Basically back to square one, still working on hypotheses, though maybe the smell is no more red herring, but definitely something rotten.
 

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