Microsoft Reveals Next-Gen Console: "Xbox Series X"

[JoshMead]

Probably going to wait a year or two before buying the X-Pillar. Backwards compatible or not, new game lineups for console launches are typically poor.

Ultimately, these companies can throw their performance figures at me all they like, but all I'm anxious about are the upcoming game libraries. Not saying that the current gen has been bad, the open-world action/adventure fans have certainly been spoiled rotten. But it has been an anticlimactic run in my experience, especially for arcade racing games and proper, mature FPS titles. Without the presence of the indie market and fair share of PC-to-console ports, I have to say I would have had a miserable experience. Most of the Sony/Microsoft exclusives were not my cup of tea, and the multiplat AAA market was a train wreck throughout.

What I want to see from Sony are more exclusives that aren't of the open-world action/adventure, story-focused nature. Just more variety in general like their PS2/PS3 libraries, even if it means bringing back dead/less popular IPs like Twisted Metal, MAG, MotorStorm, Killzone, Resistance, and Sly Cooper. Microsoft on the other hand needs to bring their A-game for new exclusives in general, they can't keep recycling the same three franchises forever. If this new Xbox comes with its acclaimed specs, but only a puddle of exclusives, it'll be akin to purchasing a house with a 10-car garage to store a single moped.

 

[Tired Tyres]

No doubt, Motorsport 8 will be 4k@60 with RT. Keep in mind, that same game will be available on original Xbox One, so overall quality will be on par with current Forza games.

Not a snowball in hell's chance. It will be 1080/1440 at 60 with RTX. 4K 60 will be without RTX.

 

[Whitestar]

We are talking about true next gen GPU technology that isnt even available on PC right now. I think its save to say Series X isnt build for 1080p. It should be a locked 4K machine, even with Raytracing enabled. Framerate will depend on the type of game.

Well, AFAIK it's just RDNA2 that doesn't exist anywhere right now. The other features will only bring AMD on parity with Nvidia's Turing as I understand it. So it's more of a generational leap really.
Good that you mention framerate. Given what we have on the PC right now highly doubt we'll have 4K RT @ 60fps. It'll probably be 4K RT @ 30fps.

Not a snowball in hell's chance. It will be 1080/1440 at 60 with RTX. 4K 60 will be without RTX.

I will certainly be shocked and amazed if they somehow pull off locked 4K 60fps with "full" RT.

 

[RaceFuchs]

Not a snowball in hell's chance. It will be 1080/1440 at 60 with RTX. 4K 60 will be without RTX.

I think what @inCloud said here might be true. Since Forza 8 will be available on Vanilla Xbox One / One S, i am not so sure what to expect here for car models and track details. Turn 10 even nailed dynamic weather and slight daytime changes in Forza 7, what else could Series X bring to the table? We might see the same overall graphical quality in Forza 8 across all plattforms, but Raytracing on Series X. Maybe even an optional 120hz output without it.

The important question here is how complex their Raytracing technique is. If its just reflections, 4K@60 should be possible on a 12 Tf machine.

 

[RaceFuchs]

For 800$ its price/performance ratio would be super high and hardcore gamers would buy it like hot cakes. Especially, if M$ would bundle it with Elite 3 gamepads or will offer it by subscription model.

IMO, series X wouldnt be only one, there would be Xbox Series S(?) with zen2 and RDNA2 GPU comparable to One X in 200-350$ price range.

Rumors hint that the Series S might just have 4 Teraflops, which is lesser then the Xbox One X. It will have the basic next gen architecture but it wont pack a punch in terms of brute GPU power. I excpect Microsoft to target the 1080p audience with this model, without a raytracing chip and propably with a smaller SSD.

Personally i would be happy to pay 799 for the Series X, but i think it will be sold for 499, just like the One X at launch.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I think what @inCloud said here might be true. Since Forza 8 will be available on Vanilla Xbox One / One S, i am not so sure what to expect here for car models and track details. Turn 10 even nailed dynamic weather and slight daytime changes in Forza 7, what else could Series X bring to the table? We might see the same overall graphical quality in Forza 8 across all plattforms, but Raytracing on Series X. Maybe even an optional 120hz output without it.

The important question here is how complex their Raytracing technique is. If its just reflections, 4K@60 should be possible on a 12 Tf machine.

I know what they did with Forza 7. I've got an X-Box One X. This is a mere twice as powerful. That's nothing as long as my memory of it being 6TF is correct.

My gaming PC has a 3900 CPU and 2070 Super. It runs Quake 2 RTX at 4K at 17 fps. When I switch RTX off I get 999 fps. There's only a three digit display so I don't know the real number. I can run Destiny 2 at 60 at 4K. That doesn't have RTX just really badly implemented HDR.

The 2080 TI has a good but not proportional advantage over the 2070 Super but I doubt it could pull a good fps number at 4K with RTX. Hence I think it will be 1080/1440 with RTX and 4K without it on the Xbox.

 

[RaceFuchs]

The 2080 TI has a good but not proportional advantage over the 2070 Super but I doubt it could pull a good fps number at 4K with RTX. Hence I think it will be 1080/1440 with RTX and 4K without it on the Xbox.

Quake 2 RTX is badly optimized brute-force raytracing firing on all cylinders, a tech demo basically. I think the performance of RT games like Control or Metro Exodus is a better represenation of what we might see in Forza.

Truth is, the higher the resolution, the more rays you need, which is a problem, of course. Personally i stick with 1440p in most PC games because i play on my TV, the difference in resolution isnt really noticable when sitting on the couch. But having Forza run sub-4K on the Series X would feel a bit off.

I also think that the difference between the 2070 and the 2080 ti is bigger then numbers might suggest. There are tuned models with up to 15 Tf, my 2070 offers just 8 Tf, not sure about your Super. But im positive the Series X will match the overall performance of an 2080 ti PC. The raytracing capabilitys remain a mystery, though. Digital Foundry doubts that it will match the RTX cards in that field because of the size abd costs of the RT chip.

 

[Whitestar]

I'm also wondering if RT on the new consoles will take off, or how soon it will take off.

We have talked a lot about it here but on PC its debut has been lackluster to say the least. It's been 1.5 years and today "the number of showcase games for the technology can be counted on one hand" to quote Hardware Unboxed. Hopefully, with consoles, 30xx series from Nvidia, and AMD's next Navi card all coming out implementations will be much better and more widespread.

 

[RaceFuchs]

I'm also wondering if RT on the new consoles will take off, or how soon it will take off.

We have talked a lot about it here but on PC it's debut has been lackluster to say the least. It's been 1.5 years and today "the number of showcase games for the technology can be counted on one hand" to quote Hardware Unboxed. Hopefully, with consoles, 30xx series from Nvidia, and AMDs next Navi card all coming out implementations will be much better and more widespread.

My personal experience with it has been a mixed bag as well. Reflections in Control look awesome with RT, very cool stuff. Metro Exodus offers some astonishing lighting and shadow effects, but my PC struggled with the frame rate in some areas. Quake 2 RTX is a travesty in my humble opinion, its still the same game like 1997, just with nice illumination and the worst frame rate i ever experienced on my machine.

Raytracing certainly has a future, the ACC tech demo looked very nice, but at the end of the day, i doubt its worth the performance drop. There is a reason Kunos dropped it. Lets see what Turn 10 can do with it and how much of a difference this really makes while playing the game.

 

[redhed17]

M$?

Sale numbers is an outmoded metric.
https://seasonedgaming.com/2020/02/...judged-by-user-count-not-hardware-units-sold/

Mmm, so sell 10 machines, but they are all using them constantly, as well their brothers, sisters and significant others etc, and so that is a success! You have to get as many machines into peoples homes as possible so you can get a significant number of users.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Interesting assessment.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/xbox-series-x-gpu-rdna-2

 

[Jtheripper]

Interesting assessment.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/xbox-series-x-gpu-rdna-2

Tks, just a rehash though, and they still don't have all info.

 

[rhalgr]

We might see the same overall graphical quality in Forza 8 across all plattforms, but Raytracing on Series X. Maybe even an optional 120hz output without it.

I expect the Series X version to look significantly better than the last gen versions. Graphics can scale.

Rumors hint that the Series S might just have 4 Teraflops, which is lesser then the Xbox One X

Right, but you need to consider that Lockhart rumoured 4TF GPU will be much more efficient than the GPU in the X. More than enough for 1080p gaming and next gen visuals.

You have to get as many machines into peoples homes as possible so you can get a significant number of users.

PS Now exist and is part of Playstation core strategy next gen. No PS5 needed for this, although it will be important to sell hardware imo. But judging the performance of PS5 with consoles sold, would do it a disservice. I think Yoshida statement is on the money.

 

[inCloud]

or how soon it will take off

After devs drop current gen completely(1-2 years). RT is a much more efficient(from dev perspective) way to implement illumination.

I expect the Series X version to look significantly better than the last gen versions. Graphics can scale.

By using new render. Asset quality will be the same

Rumors hint that the Series S might just have 4 Teraflops, which is lesser then the Xbox One X

RX 5500 XT(RDNA1) is 5.2 TFLOPS, R9 390(GCN2) is 5.2, but RX5500XT is much faster than 390. Xbox One X GPU(GCN2.0) is 6 TFLOPS, Lockhart GPU(RDNA2) is rumored as 4TLOPS+ GPU. With 35% increase in performance from new architecture those two GPUs could be on par.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Major Nelson interviews Jason Ronald (Xbox Director of PM Beard)

 

[mekonrider]

No VR, no purchase.

As a racing fan, once you've gone VR you can't go back.

 

[RaceFuchs]

No VR, no purchase.

As a racing fan, once you've gone VR you can't go back.

I dont think so. I enjoy my Oculus from time to time, escpecially Dirt Rally 2.0. But there is also a downside to it, the need to wear a headset is just one of them. VR has some insane hardware requierements. I can play Raceroom in native 4K, locked 60 fps with max details and 60+ AI cars on track. But as soon as i play in VR, im stuck with 900p and still get some small performance issues. With more then 20 AI cars, i gets pretty much unplayable. So yeah, VR is cool, but i still enjoy classic gaming more.

 

[RaceFuchs]

For those looking forward to GDC in March - and potentially seeing something Forza 8/ Raytracing related - youre in bad luck. GDC has just been canceled because of Coronavirus. Might happening in Summer now.

https://gdconf.com/news/important-gdc-2020-update

 

[rhalgr]

@RaceFuchs

In light of this, we plan to move our presence to a digital-only event March 16-18th held on www.microsoft.com/gamestack. This event will feature the majority of our planned game developer sessions and experiences, which will be streamed live and available on demand.

https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-game-stack-pulls-out-of-gdc-2020/

Hopefully this includes the GDC presentation of Turn10.

 

[inCloud]

RX 5500 XT(RDNA1) is 5.2 TFLOPS, R9 390(GCN2) is 5.2, but RX5500XT is much faster than 390. Xbox One X GPU(GCN2.0) is 6 TFLOPS, Lockhart GPU(RDNA2) is rumored as 4TLOPS+ GPU. With 35% increase in performance from new architecture those two GPUs could be on par.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Another rumour, but this one has some plausibility due to the source.

https://www.t3.com/news/ps5-and-ps5...-year-to-outflank-xbox-series-x-says-new-leak

 

[RaceFuchs]

Another rumour, but this one has some plausibility due to the source.

https://www.t3.com/news/ps5-and-ps5...-year-to-outflank-xbox-series-x-says-new-leak

Fine by me. I dont want to buy a compromized 399 dollar console. I want the full package. Price of the top consoles will still be very attractive compared to gaming PCs.

Not so sure if FOUR new consoles will make it for launch, though. Supply situation in China isnt looking good.

 

[redhed17]

Fine by me. I dont want to buy a compromized 399 dollar console. I want the full package. Price of the top consoles will still be very attractive compared to gaming PCs.

Not so sure if FOUR new consoles will make it for launch, though. Supply situation in China isnt looking good.

I watched a video on the Digital Foundry site last week (I didn't understand it all) which said that there may be a lower level XBox X, and I thought that was stupid, and now Sony are rumoured to do the same thing. Microsoft seem to love confusion in their line up, but Sony are normally, this is it, and we me change down the line when the tech lets us make it smaller and cheaper to produce. If this is true I can see contusion ahead.

'I would like a XBox X please?'
'Which one?'
'The new one!'
'There are two.'
'Really! What's the difference?'
'One's cheaper but not as powerful'
'But it can still play all the new games properly?'
'No, it is not as powerful a machine, obviously it can't show the games with the same quality.'
'Why have a machine that doesn't show the games the best they can be?'
'Because not everyone will be able to afford the top model.'
'Mmm, not sure I want a next gen games console that is not truly next gen.'
'That's up to you sir.'
'OK, I'll pass for now'
'As you wish sir.'

Now that is just what is in my head, and you can substitute PS5 for XBox X.

Releasing a console, and then either making a more powerful version a year or two down the with improvements, or a year or two down the line, as powerful, but in a smaller package with reduced i/o is one thing, but to have two at release, and one not to be cutting edge seems a bad move. But you assume they know what they are doing.

All this could be moot, because if this Coronavirus continues to escalate at the rate it is, production of all goods around the world will be affected, and especially goods from China, as that is where it originated, will probably have the largest effect on lives. China is the production hub for a large part of global production of goods and components, any changes there can have huge affects around the world.

Maybe it is nothing to worry about, and as Donald says, it is just the 'Flu' and will be gone in a few weeks. I hope the orange one is right, but sadly I doubt it.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I watched a video on the Digital Foundry site last week (I didn't understand it all) which said that there may be a lower level XBox X, and I thought that was stupid, and now Sony are rumoured to do the same thing. Microsoft seem to love confusion in their line up, but Sony are normally, this is it, and we me change down the line when the tech lets us make it smaller and cheaper to produce. If this is true I can see contusion ahead.

'I would like a XBox X please?'
'Which one?'
'The new one!'
'There are two.'
'Really! What's the difference?'
'One's cheaper but not as powerful'
'But it can still play all the new games properly?'
'No, it is not as powerful a machine, obviously it can't show the games with the same quality.'
'Why have a machine that doesn't show the games the best they can be?'
'Because not everyone will be able to afford the top model.'
'Mmm, not sure I want a next gen games console that is not truly next gen.'
'That's up to you sir.'
'OK, I'll pass for now'
'As you wish sir.'

Now that is just what is in my head, and you can substitute PS5 for XBox X.

Releasing a console, and then either making a more powerful version a year or two down the with improvements, or a year or two down the line, as powerful, but in a smaller package with reduced i/o is one thing, but to have two at release, and one not to be cutting edge seems a bad move. But you assume they know what they are doing.

All this could be moot, because if this Coronavirus continues to escalate at the rate it is, production of all goods around the world will be affected, and especially goods from China, as that is where it originated, will probably have the largest effect on lives. China is the production hub for a large part of global production of goods and components, any changes there can have huge affects around the world.

Maybe it is nothing to worry about, and as Donald says, it is just the 'Flu' and will be gone in a few weeks. I hope the orange one is right, but sadly I doubt it.

It looks to me that they are trying to build down to a price for one set of consumers and making the properly powerful version for the consumer who wants the best, which will not be cheap. 12/13 TF is 2080 TI type performance. Google the cost and you'll see why they both want to make a cheap version

 

[RaceFuchs]

I watched a video on the Digital Foundry site last week (I didn't understand it all) which said that there may be a lower level XBox X, and I thought that was stupid, and now Sony are rumoured to do the same thing.

I can see your point, but it's not that stupid. In fact, 12 Teraflops is overkill for owners of a 1080p TV. A cheaper 4 Teraflop machine could be aimed towards customers who only own a Full HD TV. It would still be able to play all the next-gen games. Just without raytracing and presumably without (native) 4K. It might sound a bit off-putting buying a next-gen console which isn't the "true" next-gen plattform, but then again, a 699 dollar console might be a bit off-putting for a large customer base, too. And it is absolutley possible that the Series X could be sold for that price. Looking at the hardware so far, it certainly should. A cheap Series S for 399 dollar or less could be very attractive for all customers who don't need the latest and greatest tech but still want to be able to experience all the newest games for years to come.

Personally i expect that we will only see the Series X this year and the Series S one year later. Its hard to tell which road Sony might be heading, though. Customers already know about PS4 and PS4 Pro, so some might want to buy a PS5 Pro right away and even ask for it. Why not giving those customers what they want and deliver the base PS5 for a cheaper price and the mass-market? I think its not a bad strategy.

 

[Wolfe]

I can see your point, but it's not that stupid. In fact, 12 Teraflops is overkill for owners of a 1080p TV. A cheaper 4 Teraflop machine could be aimed towards customers who only own a Full HD TV.

I'm pretty sure 1080p is more than sharp enough to properly experience complex physics calculations and physics-based objects, more (and smarter) NPCs, more objects, longer draw distances for active objects, etc...

Not to mention more games (hopefully) adopting 60fps as a minimum standard regardless of their complexity.

 

[redhed17]

I can see your point, but it's not that stupid. In fact, 12 Teraflops is overkill for owners of a 1080p TV. A cheaper 4 Teraflop machine could be aimed towards customers who only own a Full HD TV. It would still be able to play all the next-gen games. Just without raytracing and presumably without (native) 4K.

I have no idea of the ratio of 1080 - 4k users in the world, but I think a higher ratio of 'gamers' will have already, or plan to get, a 4k TV, and boxing oneself into a potentially non 4k capable console seems a bit odd.

It might sound a bit off-putting buying a next-gen console which isn't the "true" next-gen platform, but then again, a 699 dollar console might be a bit off-putting for a large customer base, too. And it is absolutely possible that the Series X could be sold for that price. Looking at the hardware so far, it certainly should. A cheap Series S for 399 dollar or less could be very attractive for all customers who don't need the latest and greatest tech but still want to be able to experience all the newest games for years to come.

I think Microsoft are planning to have games on both the current, and next gen consoles at the same time, and if a lower powered next gen, is not appreciably better than that on a lower powered next gen console, then.... Time will tell how different the same game will look on different on current, next gen 'power' machine, and next gen 'cheap' machines.

Personally i expect that we will only see the Series X this year and the Series S one year later. Its hard to tell which road Sony might be heading, though. Customers already know about PS4 and PS4 Pro, so some might want to buy a PS5 Pro right away and even ask for it. Why not giving those customers what they want and deliver the base PS5 for a cheaper price and the mass-market? I think its not a bad strategy.

The thing about saying that there are different versions of the machine from the start is that it could affect sales. If you know that there are two different versions, and the one you want is not due out for say a year +, then you may not buy on or close to release, and obviously you are not buying games during the delay too. You would hope they know what they are doing. Additional machines to Microsoft's and Sony's console ranges have generally been used as a boost to sales after the initial burst of sales after a couple of years, with either an increase in performance, and/or a reduction in size and price. Nothing to say they can't do something similar after their consoles.

 

[RaceFuchs]

The thing about saying that there are different versions of the machine from the start is that it could affect sales. If you know that there are two different versions, and the one you want is not due out for say a year +, then you may not buy on or close to release, and obviously you are not buying games during the delay too. You would hope they know what they are doing.

Things have changed a bit at Microsoft. The gaming industry has changed and it will transform even more in the next couple of years. They dont really expect people to buy their new console(s). Heck, they dont even expect people to buy their games! They want people to become Game Pass and Xbox Live Gold members. Thats what its all about. There are no Series X exclusive games for the next two years. To play Halo or Forza, you dont need to buy a Series X. You dont need to own an Xbox One. You can play these games on PC via Game Pass. Its all about player choice. You can buy a game or become Game Pass member. You can play on PC, your old Xbox or your new console. Maybe even on your Smartphone via Streaming. Its your choice. Microsoft isnt affraid of alienating any customers because there is nothing to worry about for anyone. Its simply about you becoming a Game Pass and Live Gold member, sticking with the Xbox franchise. Everything else is optional.

But beyond all this, im confident the Series X will sell like hot cakes, no matter the price or the Series S. There are more then enough people who dont want anything more then to get their hands on one of the new consoles, and stock will be limited for quite some time!

 

[Griffith500]

Let's not also forget supersampling.

Just because the output is 1080p, doesn't mean you can't reap the benefits of some extra pixel pumping power.

 

[MrCrynox]

I play my XB1X on a 1080P 27in PC monitor & it looks great. I've compared it to my mates 55 in HDR TV & to be honest I'm happy, I made the right choice. Super sampling works a treat especially on a smaller decent screen.