CodeRedR51
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Minimum wage strike nationwide in the states
- Thread starter GENERALSAVANT
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Danoff
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...which is why I said it that way. You should think of it that way.
CodeRedR51
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Ok.....doesn't really change anything for me.
In my opinion those that do not support raising the minimum wage are saying "it's ok to live in poverty, but maybe you could find a better job". Reality is these lower paying jobs will always be there, so someone will always be getting crap wages. Anyone that argues that costs/prices will rise don't really look at the fact that prices rise every year anyway. That makes the current minimum wage look worse and worse every year. At some point it will have to be raised, and I think at the moment $10 is a fair number. (although as stated, still on the low side)
Keef
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You do realize that Warren Buffet can be considered in poverty in the US if his income during a year is below a certain level, right? It has nothing to do with what you're worth or your investments or anything. People like Buffet often earn money in non-traditional ways and there are numerous wealthy people in the country classified as "in poverty" because of that.
In my opinion not only should the minimum wage be lowered but the minimum working age should also be lowered. This would lead to motivated high school students getting a jump start on their working lives by taking the low-time, low-paying jobs which are virtually worthless to anybody else. Hey kid, you wanna sweep floors or fold jeans for 3-4 hours after school every afternoon for $5.00 an hour? Fifteen hours at $5 an hour is $75 a week. He could have himself a new videogame or a leather jacket or new shoes every single week. There are plenty of kids that age who aren't dumb and would jump at the chance to make their own money.
CodeRedR51
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Difference is we're not talking about kids here. Lowering the minimum wage? That's crazy talk.
CodeRedR51
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Danoff
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That's the first thing people assume, that their cheesburger will double in price.
You guys are funny. Again, costs go up every year anyway so that argument is invalid.
It's really not about rising costs, it's about what the job is worth. Employers won't pay more than the job is worth. If you make the minimum wage higher than the job is worth, the job gets axed. If you make minimum wage high enough, the company gets axed. A company that relies on low wages to exist - perhaps a burger joint - will fold up shop if they have to pay more for their labor than that labor brings in.
Minimum wage violates human rights (specifically the right to contract), it is counter productive, puts people out of work, and should be abolished entirely... entirely. As in $0/hr is the minimum wage.
- 40,866
I remember this being threatened a few months ago, and my question now remains the same as it was then: What is the end game here?
I can certainly understand (and now, even personally relate) to the people who work in retail (or any job that requires real customer interaction and training) who get the short end of the stick in terms of wages when a lot of work and responsibility is involved; and if they were all to strike I'm sure there would be a true effect. But strikes really only work when the public at large sees it and uses it as a rallying point; and putting your minimum wage zero aptitude fast food job on the line to make that rallying point isn't going to work when, at the point that technology advances enough that you could be fired and replaced with a vending machine, the public at large would probably be happier.
I can certainly understand (and now, even personally relate) to the people who work in retail (or any job that requires real customer interaction and training) who get the short end of the stick in terms of wages when a lot of work and responsibility is involved; and if they were all to strike I'm sure there would be a true effect. But strikes really only work when the public at large sees it and uses it as a rallying point; and putting your minimum wage zero aptitude fast food job on the line to make that rallying point isn't going to work when, at the point that technology advances enough that you could be fired and replaced with a vending machine, the public at large would probably be happier.
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Typically just goods/services with a decreasing demand and an overwhelming supply really go down (short of some sort of limited-time sale). Others might be those in which competition increases tremendously and suddenly, although that's usually just in a temporary fad situation. Items or commodities in which there's government control (or some other price fix) might compare.
Inflation essentially guarantees that most items get more expensive, usually at a 2-3% yearly rate of all combined goods/services, according to somewhat-artificial measurements like the Consumer Price Index. It's fair to say they don't compare specific goods and services that have remained popular for the past twenty years, like cable or internet, but they're also not even secondary needs.
Still, to play devil's advocate here: if it's okay for the wealthy to desire more wealth, corner and dominate their market, and sustain their ways of life, why shouldn't the lowest wage earners try to leverage the same...by eking out other "fellow" employees into obsolescence?
Also, if fast-food workers go on strike, I think our health might improve somewhat. (An unexpected upshot - suddenly we don't need the industry as much?) But I think there would still be many folks willing to work (in a time of 7% unemployment) to take their place after a few days, and that would be that; someone would fill the voids left by working for that previously so-called undesirable wage. If we were in the era of 2-3% unemployment, a strike would have more merit, and ultimately be more successful.
Of course, if everyone saved their 90% silver coinage, it wouldn't be worth that much. Or they'd be in Very Good condition from circulation (which is to say, worth $0.25).
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- 4,209
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If you're any good at all, you won't be stuck on minimum wage for long at all. Minimum wage jobs are by nature low-skilled, low-worth jobs and are mainly where teenagers get a foot in the door and gain experience. If they work well, there are probably raises and promotions in the cards.
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Unfortunately, some people just aren't that good. They're never going to rise very high.
We've got a warehouse guy at my work. Lovely guy, but he's just not that smart. He knows it, and he tries really hard, and I try to help him out as best I can and he does pretty well. But he's never really going to get very much higher, because he's simply not capable.
This is the thing about minimum wage jobs. Yeah, some of the people working them are just passing through on their way to something better. But for some people that's the best they can do.
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This, so much this. I have worked a bunch of the bottom of the barrel jobs, and the number of people that put in next to no effort but expect to be rewarded is insane. Weird world of self entitlement because they could sort of fill out a form and drag a mop across a floor, never understood it.
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Looks like I'm coming in late on this, but that statement above is true and false. I'm not picking on you, I hear this argument frequently and I would like to address it. I usually hear these statements from anarco capitalist who would love nothing more than an unregulated market.
As long as there is money, there is coercion or force by way of need. Fact. I'll tell you why, As long as anything has a price on it people will be forced to work to cover the basic needs of living. That is a truncated statement but it's true. Although there is no real gun, the metaphorical gun to anyone's head is a persons need for food, clothing and shelter. So that's everyone from the rich to the homeless.
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Inflation is a by-product of a fractional reserve, fiat currency system. The only way to solve inflation, if you prefer to use a currency, would be to use something of natural scarcity like gold. But that wont happen now, the federal reserve stopped backing our currency with gold ages ago.
Edit: and they ain't gunna switch back.
****Disclaimer to ALL**** I added a video as a point of source information. If you feel you can't handle source information in the form of a video please look away at this time.
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Not really. People are as capable of going out and living off the land as our ancestors were. They just choose not to because working at McDonalds and watching TV in the evenings is easier than living in a shack, keeping a garden and hunting for every meal.
Needs don't go away or change simply because you remove money. You still need food and shelter. Removing money simply removes easy ways to trade for those things. Money doesn't force you into anything that you're not forced into simply by being alive.
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What of it? It's not a necessity.
People are able to live a long time if they don't get unlucky. The human immune system is an impressive thing. If they do get sick, that sucks, but we've had thousands of years where people thought leeches were pretty high tech.
Not having healthcare simply increases the number of fatal things that can happen to you. We don't think of a whole lot of diseases as fatal now that would have been considered death sentences a few hundred years ago. It's a luxury that most people assume that they couldn't do without, whereas the truth is that they could but they wouldn't want to because it's a higher level of risk.
A human doesn't survive if it has no food. Depending on where you live you can survive with no shelter, but I'd say that a significant amount of the world has winters severe enough to kill without it.
Keef
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How many people are capable of pulling a meat patty out of a food warmer and building a crappy burger in less than two minutes? Everybody. There is absolutely no scarcity of labor or skill for such a job. The fact that they get paid what they do would be an inexplicable miracle of fantasy economics if it wasn't already legislated. That job is virtually worthless and any moron off the street is capable of it.
I don't think people realize that the idea of "scarcity" applies to labor just like everything else in economics. Supply and demand. People seem to avoid this argument when talking about labor, I assume because they're pansies who don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Fact: Some people are better than others. Some people are more valuable than others. Some people deserve more than others and some people don't really deserve squat because they can't provide anything valuable to society. If you don't want life to suck then make yourself valuable and get that money.
I'll be damned if some rotten high school kid deserves $12 an hour to do a simpleton job, badly, that a terminal cancer patient could do with their eyes closed.
Inflation adjusted, silver had about the same value in 1964 as it did in 2000. That quarter today has a market value of about $5 because of the dollar's immense inflation since then, not because its legal amount has changed. Scarcity isn't the main reason for their value, it's because of inflation and the fact that they were made out of a metal that was actually worth 25 cents in 1964. Unlike our quarters today which are worth a penny, max.
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