Minimum wage strike nationwide in the states

[Famine]

And why is that worth $12 - it's similar to what EMTs get paid. Which do you think is more valuable to society?

And naturally you will up the rate for EMTs and firefighters.

What a brilliant idea. In fact, let's increase salaries across the board so that everyone has more money.


Right?

 

[Omnis]

Inflation is a by-product of a fractional reserve, fiat currency system. The only way to solve inflation, if you prefer to use a currency, would be to use something of natural scarcity like gold. But that wont happen now, the federal reserve stopped backing our currency with gold ages ago.

Edit: and they ain't gunna switch back.

****Disclaimer to ALL**** I added a video as a point of source information. If you feel you can't handle source information in the form of a video please look away at this time.

 

[buickgnx88]

What a brilliant idea. In fact, let's increase salaries across the board so that everyone has more money.

Right?

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

I don't follow, can you clarify what you are getting at with this ^? If it's supposed to be a type of ad hominem to me, it's not well received and as a Mod I would imagine you should be an ambassador for gtplanet. The post was to only clarify your statement, you were correct but not complete. To blame it on inflation is like when F1 drivers were blaming Pirelli tires for exploding because that's how they made the tires. True but the fault lied in the use of the tires by the team.

Straight from wikipedia. I'm surprised a mod would do such a thing.

 

[Danoff]

McDonalds makes how much money per hour?
And how long does it take to pull a meat pattie out of a food warmer, add a slice of cheese and 2 buns?

Less than 2 minutes.

They can afford to pay $12/ hour

McDonalds are locally owned franchises, and those guys aren't getting crazy rich. People will not open McDonalds franchises if they have to pay $12/hr for each worker - the entire McDonald's business model would need to be revamped. I promise you, $12/hr means people getting fired and franchises that were on the edge getting borded up.

Do you think that there could be any potential negative consequenses from abolishing minimum wage?

No. Possible some individuals wouldn't like it, but as a whole it would be a good thing.

Looks like I'm coming in late on this, but that statement above is true and false. I'm not picking on you, I hear this argument frequently and I would like to address it. I usually hear these statements from anarco capitalist who would love nothing more than an unregulated market.

As long as there is money, there is coercion or force by way of need. Fact. I'll tell you why, As long as anything has a price on it people will be forced to work to cover the basic needs of living. That is a truncated statement but it's true. Although there is no real gun, the metaphorical gun to anyone's head is a persons need for food, clothing and shelter. So that's everyone from the rich to the homeless.

Uh... no.

Basic needs of living do force you to work, but they don't force you to earn money, and they don't force you to work much - especially not these days. Plenty of farmers will tell you that they live entirely self-sufficiently, providing for all of their own needs. This has been done for thousands of years. But even if you don't want to farm, consider the following.

You don't need a house, that much has been proven by tons of people who live voluntarily without houses (in the US). You don't need a job because you can make enough money standing on the street corner to buy 10 times as many calories per day as you need. Calories to sustain life can be bought for like $1 or maybe $2 TOPS per day. You can make $20 in an hour standing on a street corner. Or you could recycle from dumpsters. But if you're too lazy to do that, there are tons of private charities that have you covered (salvation army for example). But even if you don't want to do that, the government also offers handouts... lots and lots of handouts. You don't need healthcare. Healthcare hasn't even existed for more than a tiny fraction of human existence. Shelter is free. Clothing is given away everywhere in the US (also found in the trash). Hell you can find enough food in the trash to sustain you. I've seen a homeless person (voluntarily homeless mind you, no one has to be homeless in the US as the government will house and feed you), grab bread out of the trash and start munching on it.

There is absolutely nothing, nothing at all forcing you to work. I can tell you exactly which parks to go to to talk to many folks who live without working every single day, and they'll tell you just how unnecessary it is and how those of us who work are all suckers when there's so much free stuff everywhere. So your claim is 100% NOT fact.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

McDonalds are locally owned franchises, and those guys aren't getting crazy rich. People will not open McDonalds franchises if they have to pay $12/hr for each worker - the entire McDonald's business model would need to be revamped. I promise you, $12/hr means people getting fired and franchises that were on the edge getting borded up.



No. Possible some individuals wouldn't like it, but as a whole it would be a good thing.



Uh... no.

Basic needs of living do force you to work, but they don't force you to earn money, and they don't force you to work much - especially not these days. Plenty of farmers will tell you that they live entirely self-sufficiently, providing for all of their own needs. This has been done for thousands of years. But even if you don't want to farm, consider the following.

You don't need a house, that much has been proven by tons of people who live voluntarily without houses (in the US). You don't need a job because you can make enough money standing on the street corner to buy 10 times as many calories per day as you need. Calories to sustain life can be bought for like $1 or maybe $2 TOPS per day. You can make $20 in an hour standing on a street corner. Or you could recycle from dumpsters. But if you're too lazy to do that, there are tons of private charities that have you covered (salvation army for example). But even if you don't want to do that, the government also offers handouts... lots and lots of handouts. You don't need healthcare. Healthcare hasn't even existed for more than a tiny fraction of human existence. Shelter is free. Clothing is given away everywhere in the US (also found in the trash). Hell you can find enough food in the trash to sustain you. I've seen a homeless person (voluntarily homeless mind you, no one has to be homeless in the US as the government will house and feed you), grab bread out of the trash and start munching on it.

There is absolutely nothing, nothing at all forcing you to work. I can tell you exactly which parks to go to to talk to many folks who live without working every single day, and they'll tell you just how unnecessary it is and how those of us who work are all suckers when there's so much free stuff everywhere. So your claim is 100% NOT fact.

It's not about being lazy it's about freeing humans from having to work away 70 years of their lives that as far as I can tell we only get one of. Hippy sounding, I'm aware but it's the only way to get across the idea.

So you live off the garbage of others, work the street corner or work in a debt for labor system IS coercion. Besides living off garbage is surviving not living with, as I stated before, the basic needs for life (food, clothing and shelter). I could go to the GOV shelters and get their handouts but then that's taxes paying for it by someone having to work the system.

Also what of healthcare? Should I not work be homeless, let you or someone else work and pay taxes, then go to a hospital and make your taxes pay for it. Then we're talking coercion and structural violence. that doesn't sound very fair to the hard worker busting their knuckles everyday.

 

[Danoff]

So you live off the garbage of others, work the street corner or work in a debt for labor system IS coercion.

Uh no. None of that is coercion. How you choose to provide for yourself, or even whether you choose to provide for yourself is entirely up to you. Your choice, nobody is forcing you.

Besides living off garbage is surviving not living with, as I stated before, the basic needs for life (food, clothing and shelter).

I don't see the distinction between surviving and living.

I could go to the GOV shelters and get their handouts but then that's taxes paying for it by someone having to work the system.

But not you, you're not forced to work for it.

Also what of healthcare? Should I not work be homeless, let you or someone else work and pay taxes, then go to a hospital and make your taxes pay for it. Then we're talking coercion and structural violence.

But not you, you're not forced to work for it. Also, no you don't need to go to the hospital - hospitals are a relatively new invention.

At this point I'll accept your apology for falsely claiming that you are forced to work for money to provide for yourself.

 

[Pupik]

There are communes, you know. Most fail because the brainwashing gets annoying or the pot runs out. There's no time to watch 17 minute videos when your days are spent harvesting cabbages and other acts of supplication.

 

[Keef]

I don't follow, can you clarify what you are getting at with this ^?

Many of us are rather familiar with modern schools of economic thought, especially the Austrian side. You'll also find that @Omnis is an anarcho-capitalist pig who bathes in rainbow sherbet-flavored idealism and hopes to return to the good ol' days of unregulated beaver pelt and bear claw trading.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

Uh no. None of that is coercion. How you choose to provide for yourself, or even whether you choose to provide for yourself is entirely up to you. Your choice, nobody is forcing you.



I don't see the distinction between surviving and living.



But not you, you're not forced to work for it.



But not you, you're not forced to work for it. Also, no you don't need to go to the hospital - hospitals are a relatively new invention.

At this point I'll accept your apology for falsely claiming that you are forced to work for money to provide for yourself.

And what happens if everyone takes this approach? Then what? The would would be sent into the dark ages, people with cancer wouldn't be able to their treatment from no one working, and billions would die from starvation (I have source material for the use of artificial nitrogen production that's the source for allowing the 6 billion people to live currently on this planet and with that taken away we would only be able to support 1-2 billion). So would you be ok with everyone not working?

Sorry, I feel your not understanding my point. Maybe in a remote truncated sense someone could go off and live on their own. But being reductionist doesn't solve the problem. You can break down global problems to small metaphors but that doesn't work in the whole picture. I'd post a video or elicit source material but that doesn't seem to work in this forum.

IDK mate, if you'd like more info let me know though an IM and I'll give you all the information about structural violence and coercion but it just seems that every time I express a founded idea here people are not receptive and dare I say it, this might not be the place for philosophical conversations.

 

[Omnis]

@GENERALSAVANT, I just mean to say you're preaching to the choir.


bub.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

Many of us are rather familiar with modern schools of economic thought, especially the Austrian side. You'll also find that @Omnis is an anarcho-capitalist pig who bathes in rainbow sherbet-flavored idealism and hopes to return to the good ol' days of unregulated beaver pelt and bear claw trading.

Look how good words work (an explination ), no confusion. 👍
Thanks

 

[Omnis]

Sorry if I hurt your feels. But, I assure you, your jimmy rustling was overinflated.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

@GENERALSAVANT, I just mean to say you're preaching to the choir.


bub.

Well no preaching, just clarifications to ideas. I'm not in favor of the gold standard. It'll create the same type of class stratification, elitism and corruption we have now. Except instead of someone having billions of dollars it would be gold. Only bonus would be the standard price of gold (I get what you and other anarco's get at) not a bad thing. However I think we're beyond all of this currency stuff though. But good to know what you meant, some of us are "new" and need explanations.

Edit: lol I wasn't jimmied or whatever, I was asking for clarification. But if you insist on telling me how I feel and how it's inflated? Please know you will get something started. I don't appreciate it and there is no need for patronizing.

 

[Danoff]

And what happens if everyone takes this approach? Then what?

They won't (note that they don't). So it's not something you need to worry about. There are too many benefits from choosing not to take that approach for the vast majority of people to choose it.

So would you be ok with everyone not working?

It's not something that I need to be ok with or not because people won't do it (and yes I would if that's what they chose).

Sorry, I feel your not understanding my point.

Try explaining it again.

IDK mate, if you'd like more info let me know though an IM and I'll give you all the information about structural violence and coercion but it just seems that every time I express a founded idea here people are not receptive and dare I say it, this might not be the place for philosophical conversations.

You mean that we didn't all agree with you right away? What did you expect? I'm totally in agreement that the US has a structure of violence and coercion, but not in the way you describe. Also, I think we should discuss this topic here rather than in private - that way others can read it.

 

[Keef]

Sorry if I hurt your feels. But, I assure you, your jimmy rustling was overinflated.

I definitely like this ninja edit better. Good call you commie native American one-with-nature idealist bastard.

 

[Duke]

There was a great quote I saw once that went something like "We're the only species that has to pay to live on the planet we were born on."

Oh, animals spend every waking moment hunting or foraging for food, avoiding being eaten, fighting for a mate, building a nest/den/bower/whatever, raising young, etc. But somehow that's not working? If you feel enslaved by the need to earn a living and don't want to enjoy the benefits of modern society, by all means, return to your hunter/gatherer roots and live in the wilderness.

 

[Omnis]

Well no preaching, just clarifications to ideas. I'm not in favor of the gold standard. It'll create the same type of class stratification, elitism and corruption we have now. Except instead of someone having billions of dollars it would be gold. Only bonus would be the standard price of gold (I get what you and other anarco's get at) not a bad thing. However I think we're beyond all of this currency stuff though. But good to know what you meant, some of us are "new" and need explanations.

Edit: lol I wasn't jimmied or whatever, I was asking for clarification. But if you insist on telling me how I feel and how it's inflated? Please know you will get something started. I don't appreciate it and there is no need for patronizing.

I'm not patronizing you. I'm sorry. You'll have to excuse me-- since we all pretty much know where everyone else stands, it's not so often we're (rather, I'm) completely formal and serious-like. Anyway, I of course appreciate your addition and would like you to know that my humor, while hopefully infectious, is completely benign.

I definitely like this ninja edit better. Good call you commie native American one-with-nature idealist bastard.

Keef, stop setting the tone. Savant is for real.

So, anyway, @GENERALSAVANT, there is probably a thread somewhere on gold as money, etc. If you want to find it to elaborate on your position of what it will create, or create a new thread, I wouldn't mind reading about what you'd have to say.

That'll be the end of this tangent now so we can keep this thread on track.