GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
- 21,632
- GTPHQ
This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Joe Donaldson (@Joey D) on January 8th, 2019 in the Gaming category.
Modifying Your Consoles in Japan Could Now Cost You Dearly Under Revised Law
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 31 comments
- 3,758 views
- 2,227
- Bács-Kiskun
But who checks that if you modify them? 
- 939
- Zürich
LOL the first thing I did with that playstation classic thing is get some of my old games, like the Wipeout series and the GT1 and 2 running on it - all the binaries came from the original disks that I own, and the PS classic was not modified in any way so I haven't actually broken any laws.
DO NOT ask me how I did it on this forum either by public posting or PM as I will not break this forum's rules on this matter. However if you're determined then you know what to do.
What I will say is that PS classic is very poor value for money if you buy it only for the preloaded games.
DO NOT ask me how I did it on this forum either by public posting or PM as I will not break this forum's rules on this matter. However if you're determined then you know what to do.
What I will say is that PS classic is very poor value for money if you buy it only for the preloaded games.
- 269
- WyldAnimal_
Punishment:
In order for there to be a punishable consequence, there has to be a Proven Crime that causes Proven Damages to an entity.
Either financial damages, or physical harm. ( although some laws allow for emotional harm to be considered Harm. )
Ownership:
When you Purchase to Own something, that property in it's entirety is transferred to you, You own it.
Software and Firmware however, tend to not transfer ownership, but instead have a licensing agreement, that allows you to Use the software or firmware until such license is revoked. You don't OWN the Software or Firmware, you only own the Physical Device.
If you create your Own Firmware, or Own Software, and use it on a Device you Own, no Crime has been Committed.
Game Saves:
Data files, files created from use of the Firmware or Software, and stored on, or in, the Physical device, are NOT covered under the Use license of said software or firmware.
The Data did not exist when you Agreed to the terms of the Software or Firmware. You can not be legally held accountable for something
that did not exist when you authorized your Agreement.
Each time a NEW Data file is created, a New License Agreement would have to be created to cover that particular file.
And you would have to Agree to it.
The same is true for a Firmware or Software update.
You must be made Aware of each change or agree to a NEW License agreement each time it changes
From a legal stand point, I don't see how this can be enforceable.
In order for there to be a punishable consequence, there has to be a Proven Crime that causes Proven Damages to an entity.
Either financial damages, or physical harm. ( although some laws allow for emotional harm to be considered Harm. )
Ownership:
When you Purchase to Own something, that property in it's entirety is transferred to you, You own it.
Software and Firmware however, tend to not transfer ownership, but instead have a licensing agreement, that allows you to Use the software or firmware until such license is revoked. You don't OWN the Software or Firmware, you only own the Physical Device.
If you create your Own Firmware, or Own Software, and use it on a Device you Own, no Crime has been Committed.
Game Saves:
Data files, files created from use of the Firmware or Software, and stored on, or in, the Physical device, are NOT covered under the Use license of said software or firmware.
The Data did not exist when you Agreed to the terms of the Software or Firmware. You can not be legally held accountable for something
that did not exist when you authorized your Agreement.
Each time a NEW Data file is created, a New License Agreement would have to be created to cover that particular file.
And you would have to Agree to it.
The same is true for a Firmware or Software update.
You must be made Aware of each change or agree to a NEW License agreement each time it changes
From a legal stand point, I don't see how this can be enforceable.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I agree in a sense, but I also realize that online gaming is a major aspect of modern consoles, and that sort of skews the situation (at least with them).
The basic premise of playing online is eroded if manufacturers let people tinker with their games/saves/systems. If I play Star Wars BF2 against someone with a fully levelled-up Darth Vader, and I lose, I do so within the developers' constructs. That person either played better than me, put in more time to level up a character, or both. If I play against someone who's given themselves invulnerability and the ability to fling their lightsaber from one end of the map to the other, it's no longer a "fair" playing field.
That said, I don't think it should be matter of criminal charges. That's silly. Anybody that modifies a game with online play should just not be able to connect to the servers. And as for old games? I don't see the problem at all: Gameshark was legal all that time, no?
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
I agree, the internet and connected technology has made all this a grey area because certain things need to be in place to keep everything fair online and people shouldn't be able to connect with modded machines but I object to their 'all or nothing' approach where they want to basically criminalise every aspect of console ownership not expressly approved by them, even the ones that don't affect others.
If things like Gameshark and Action Replay were around today manufacturers would probably force shut down consoles using them even if it was nothing to do with online!
All this reminds me of Other OS on the PS3, they took away something people were sold as a feature and something they paid for just because they thought it might be used illicitly, even though that never actually happened. It was nothing to do with PSN.
- 2,083
- Sweden
- RetroJohan
Prisoner 1: So what did you do?
Prisoner 2: I rob a bank.
Prisoner 1: Ok, and you?
Prisoner 3: I mod my gaming console
Prisoner 1&2:
Prisoner 2: I rob a bank.
Prisoner 1: Ok, and you?
Prisoner 3: I mod my gaming console
Prisoner 1&2:
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
If you mod your gamesave and you stay offline and no one knows about it, does that count?
Also, does this mean the end of the GTP Hybriding section?
Just another progression in the gaming industry's attempt to constantly overcomplicate itself and take fun out of the equation it seems. I feel I'm getting far too old for this 🤬 with each year that passes
Also, does this mean the end of the GTP Hybriding section?
Just another progression in the gaming industry's attempt to constantly overcomplicate itself and take fun out of the equation it seems. I feel I'm getting far too old for this 🤬 with each year that passes
Novalee
(Banned)
- 708
- Earth
I see it in more simple terms. Esports is big money now, there fore to come across as a dev or publisher who lets people cheat either through glitches bugs altering game saves and how ever else is now messing with peoples money.
I see this as just a start. Once large amounts of cash or prizes is involved the ,landscape has changed. For better. Or worse i think we will see even stiffer laws brought in .
I see this as just a start. Once large amounts of cash or prizes is involved the ,landscape has changed. For better. Or worse i think we will see even stiffer laws brought in .
INEEDNAWZZZ
Premium
- 1,829
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
I really don't see how they could enforce this; unless you go online with it which most people aren't gonna do for obvious reasons. I can understand if you were using to get free games, but realistically modifying something for your own personal use should not be illegal. It's a bit like those stickers you used to see on older PlayStations that said 'warranty void if removed'. From what I remember, they had to stop saying that since technically you own the product and therefore can do what you want with it.
- 16
- United Kingdom
- 86,846
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
In case you're unfamiliar with the forum rules, they're here: https://www.gtplanet.net/aup/. Although you were required to tick a little box to say you'd read and agreed to them when you created your account, and they should sound no different now.
- 5,666
- Paint booth
- FMecha_EXE
GTnForza4ever
(Banned)
- 182
- Location? My Bedroom.
Asians are insane...
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Might want to look at a map.
EDIT: Well damn, maybe I should!
In school/growing up I always figured Japanese weren't technically Asian, but was more so just wrongfully grouped in. Looking it up, it seems that's not entirely the case? Today I learned.
GTnForza4ever
(Banned)
- 182
- Location? My Bedroom.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Yeah, the very angry emoticon must have given it away right?
I mean, what other emotion could you possibly pull from an emoticon that has smile with its tongue out?
Dan
Premium
- 15,396
- United States
2007 called and wants its outdated meme back.
- 6,259
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
I was initially writing a quick reply, but it wound up becoming a wall. It wound up becoming a wall because I realized I had a lot to say as someone who owns a jailbroken PS3 (something repeated often in this post) and has knowledge of both sides of the issue as someone who has played on both jailbroken and non jailbroken systems. My jailbroken system is currently collecting dust while my non jailbroken system is the one I use the most often these days as the only game I used the jailbroken system for is currently not a complete hellhole that requires a jailbroken system to even play like it was previously (that will also be explained in further detail).
There are a lot of angles for me to look at this from as someone who actually does own a jailbroken PS3 (my PS3 with the tag linked to GTP is on a proper OFW PS3 and PS4). I personally look at it as a case of I bought it, I own if. If I choose to jailbreak a PS3 on my own time, so be it. If I leave it offline and don't play games online, I'm not hurting anyone. But if I go online with the jailbroken PS3, I'm breaking ToS for using a console with custom firmware on their severs and they have every right to console ban the system because I didn't abide by the terms required for online play on that system.
On one hand, I look at this as an Esports driven deal since mods absolutely destroy the integrity of competitive gaming. The CSGO incident with OpTic India and the fallout from one of their players being caught with mods during a major absolutely destroyed the reputation of both CSGO Indian players and OpTic itself. Pretty much every CoD on the PS3 is now unplayable with the modder infestation there even if I was playing on the jailbroken system. Good luck playing Black Ops 2 these days especially.
GTAV, the sole reason I even jailbroke the console, has only recently been playable without a jailbroken system (not sure why that is but I'll take it). Those who read the GTAO thread probably have seen some of my posts advising to stay off of the game on previous gen consoles. At the "Peak", I was having to deal with 5-10 modders a day across various sessions I played in. Every time that a modder discovers another modder (regardless of who is or isn't using mods), the aftermath of modders meeting other modders winds up being the same with regards to outcomes- a pissing match about who had the better mod menu with the loser ragequitting the lobby, someone getting kicked from the lobby, or someone being DDoSed. Along with that, there is also a slew of angry players who are now rightfully pissed off because their lobby got ruined by someone being an abusive ass along with an angry modder for having to deal with a modder who was being an abusive ass. That constant theme lead to a crew of 50-75 people now only being an active crew of 3-5 on the PS3 with three of them having jailbroken consoles. The same story pretty much happens on virtually every game that involves some sort of competition on the 3 which lead me to avoid playing most of the games I used to play for a long time.
On the other hand, I have no idea how effective it will be because the enforcement is key. If they go after the end users with the mods, then the who point is useless because all they've done is console ban people using the mods while letting the actual developers walk away scot free. Based off of the tweet, I would presume that they are going to go after the developers to start with which is the only way they will stop modding from happening. I'd be inclined to say that incarceration should only be served by the most significant offenders and most could probably be taken out with civil cases (as was the case with Take Two shutting down what were the two prominent mod menus on the PS3 at the time in 2017).
If companies are proactive and take out offenders, the gaming companies should be okay. But if they are reactive, the menus and other cheat services that survive will become stronger and more dangerous. Knowing most of the prominent mod menus for GTAO on the PS3 (which again I won't discuss), most are FAR, FAR WORSE than the two they shut down in 2017.
I'll end this wall with this bit-I'm aware of there already being jailbroken PS4s, and the wild card to how dangerous they will be is how long it will take to get them online. At this point, jailbroken 4s cannot be online, but the last time I checked, they were predicting a year before some of them could actually be used for online play. If they come online and Sony nips them in the bud pronto, things should be okay and the integrity of competitive play should be alright. But if they let it become the mess that was the PS3 jailbreak beginnings, then the integrity of multiplayer will be done.
There are a lot of angles for me to look at this from as someone who actually does own a jailbroken PS3 (my PS3 with the tag linked to GTP is on a proper OFW PS3 and PS4). I personally look at it as a case of I bought it, I own if. If I choose to jailbreak a PS3 on my own time, so be it. If I leave it offline and don't play games online, I'm not hurting anyone. But if I go online with the jailbroken PS3, I'm breaking ToS for using a console with custom firmware on their severs and they have every right to console ban the system because I didn't abide by the terms required for online play on that system.
On one hand, I look at this as an Esports driven deal since mods absolutely destroy the integrity of competitive gaming. The CSGO incident with OpTic India and the fallout from one of their players being caught with mods during a major absolutely destroyed the reputation of both CSGO Indian players and OpTic itself. Pretty much every CoD on the PS3 is now unplayable with the modder infestation there even if I was playing on the jailbroken system. Good luck playing Black Ops 2 these days especially.
GTAV, the sole reason I even jailbroke the console, has only recently been playable without a jailbroken system (not sure why that is but I'll take it). Those who read the GTAO thread probably have seen some of my posts advising to stay off of the game on previous gen consoles. At the "Peak", I was having to deal with 5-10 modders a day across various sessions I played in. Every time that a modder discovers another modder (regardless of who is or isn't using mods), the aftermath of modders meeting other modders winds up being the same with regards to outcomes- a pissing match about who had the better mod menu with the loser ragequitting the lobby, someone getting kicked from the lobby, or someone being DDoSed. Along with that, there is also a slew of angry players who are now rightfully pissed off because their lobby got ruined by someone being an abusive ass along with an angry modder for having to deal with a modder who was being an abusive ass. That constant theme lead to a crew of 50-75 people now only being an active crew of 3-5 on the PS3 with three of them having jailbroken consoles. The same story pretty much happens on virtually every game that involves some sort of competition on the 3 which lead me to avoid playing most of the games I used to play for a long time.
On the other hand, I have no idea how effective it will be because the enforcement is key. If they go after the end users with the mods, then the who point is useless because all they've done is console ban people using the mods while letting the actual developers walk away scot free. Based off of the tweet, I would presume that they are going to go after the developers to start with which is the only way they will stop modding from happening. I'd be inclined to say that incarceration should only be served by the most significant offenders and most could probably be taken out with civil cases (as was the case with Take Two shutting down what were the two prominent mod menus on the PS3 at the time in 2017).
If companies are proactive and take out offenders, the gaming companies should be okay. But if they are reactive, the menus and other cheat services that survive will become stronger and more dangerous. Knowing most of the prominent mod menus for GTAO on the PS3 (which again I won't discuss), most are FAR, FAR WORSE than the two they shut down in 2017.
I'll end this wall with this bit-I'm aware of there already being jailbroken PS4s, and the wild card to how dangerous they will be is how long it will take to get them online. At this point, jailbroken 4s cannot be online, but the last time I checked, they were predicting a year before some of them could actually be used for online play. If they come online and Sony nips them in the bud pronto, things should be okay and the integrity of competitive play should be alright. But if they let it become the mess that was the PS3 jailbreak beginnings, then the integrity of multiplayer will be done.
cjr3559
Premium
- 2,810
- Ohio
- cjr3559
Like it or not, think of it as owning a car and driving it on a public highway and abiding by the rules and regulations set forth by the government.
Nobody cares what you do on your own property, but the rules change once you enter that shared road called the internet.
Nobody cares what you do on your own property, but the rules change once you enter that shared road called the internet.
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