Mr. Thompson and Video Games.

[sukerkin]

I'm starting to get the idea that if I went to have a browse of this site I'd be in danger of getting my soapbox out and having a rant .

I think that the core idea of how video gaming can have a detrimental influence on certain people has been swamped by their 'Crusading Zeal' to ban everything!

Ah well ...

 

[Grand Prix]

The biggest problem is that parents don't play games with their kids. If more parents were to play games, then that would eliminate the generalizations and produce more understanding of the gaming community for them. They can see for themselves whether the game their kid is playing is okay, and why so many people, even adults up to age 30, play games. I don't think that will happen until our generation of parents though. Today's generation is far too busyworking at steel mills and bank offices, instead of the computer industry, which is where the future is.

 

[Swift]

They can see for themselves whether the game their kid is playing is okay, and why so many people, even adults up to age 30, play games. .

Good points. But considering I'll be 30 in less then 2 years. I'm quite sure I'll still be playing games.

 

[FoolKiller]

The biggest problem is that parents don't play games with their kids. If more parents were to play games, then that would eliminate the generalizations and produce more understanding of the gaming community for them. They can see for themselves whether the game their kid is playing is okay, and why so many people, even adults up to age 30, play games. I don't think that will happen until our generation of parents though. Today's generation is far too busyworking at steel mills and bank offices, instead of the computer industry, which is where the future is.

I agree.

My dad is the reason why I play games. He bought an Atari when I was younger and then a commodore and then a Super Nintendo. After the Playstation came out he gave up because there were "too many buttons." For Christmas though my brother and I bought him the Atari controllers that plug in to your TV. He's 55 and still loves games but he has no computer skills whatsoever and his reflexes suck. He will still watch me play when he visits and is amazed at what has happened since Pong.

 

[Flame-returns]

All but 3 of those facts are nonsense and I object to being called a social outcast, my social skills are fine and I have been playing videogames all my life.

Fact: Video games have been proven to prevent the development of the proper social skills and interaction needed for a long happy and enjoyable life. Young gamers are prone to being burdened with depression and sadness all throughout their life.

Not true, if these people took their heads out of the sand they would notice that recent scientific research shows that VIDEO GAMES help children develop both social skills and puzzle solving skills. I very rarely suffer depression and it is only ever very mild, I would not be suprised if the children of these "mothers" suffered depression, even psychotic tendencies.

Fact: Hardcore gaming not only leads to video game addiction and abrupt lifestyle changes, but to crime and felony as well. Hardcore gamers never buy computer video games. Instead, downloading illegally copied video games or “warez” is the only method acceptable by the underground. Buying a legit copy is grounds for abandonment by community groups. You may not be buying your child videogames, but they can illegally obtain them off the internet.

I have never downloaded an illegaly copied game, I am a member of several video game communities...

OMG GTP please dont abandon me, I didnt mean that, all my games are illegaly copied, honestly, PLEEASSEEE!!!

Encourage your child to be more active. Arrange for your child to go over to a friends house for the afternoon, setup a gathering party at your home, or even sign up your child for an after school sport or activity.

These kids have every right to feel suicidal, I am not athletic I am infact useless at all sports. If anyone even considered signing me up aginst my will I would have the murdered in cold blood, I am not violent, I am simply individual.

 

[Zrow]

I was going to make a new thread, but I happened to stumble upon this old one.

I'm sure we have some Penny-Arcade readers here, so I'm interested in hearing your response to the latest happenings between Jack Thompson and basically the whole gaming industry.

 

[Duke]

Cliff Notes or linkage, please? I've read some Penny Arcade strips, but I can't say I'm current. Thanks.

 

[Zrow]

Okay, it starts here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php?date=2005-10-12

Look about halfway down the page and it starts with the header "Jack Thompson".

Continues here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php?date=2005-10-14

And probably the most interesting things here (down the page some after the initial newspost): http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php?date=2005-10-14

WARNING: There's some harsh language in a few of the posts.

Now of course that information is going to be a bit biased considering the source, but I'd say its a pretty good representation of this Jack Thompson guy. I think it's especially interesting how he words things. Here's his letter to the Sheriff's office in trying to get Penny Arcade shut down:

I think the guy is just on a publicity crusade. Your thoughts?

 

[Famine]

I think if he refers GTAVC as a "cop-killing murder simulator" (when you don't actually HAVE to kill any cops, and any you do kill can be classed as manslaughter) or to people who play it as "computer geeks", he opens himself up to a class action lawsuit.

I bet 4 million geeks have more money than him.

 

[Swift]

This guy needs a wife or something. Does he even have children?

Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney) for the stuff that he's done. I mean he went after Sims 2 without any proof of anything.

What I'm trying to figure out is why he doesn't ask the PARENTS to stop buying the games for their children. It seems that would be a lot easier then trying to sue...Oh my bad, there's no money in that.

 

[Zrow]

Look at what he does - he puts 'cop killing' in quotes to make it as if they aren't his own words. That's the kind of tactic Thompson uses, and I guess some people buy into it. I hope that the police he sent this to can see through his fake patronage, though I sincerely doubt they'd take this fax seriously anyway.

 

[Zrow]

What I'm trying to figure out is why he doesn't ask the PARENTS to stop buying the games for their children.

Oh come on, parents don't share any responsibility in what their kids participate in. Duh?

 

[Zrow]

Hah, it just keeps getting better.

"The NFL wouldn't allow it's name to be used, so that tells you something."

That's a quote from Jack Thompson during a CNN interview in reference to a new Midway football game. What he neglects to mention is the fact that EA Games purchased the rights to use "NFL" in its games, so Midway legally can't use it. It has nothing to do with the actual game itself.

This is the kind of thing Jack Thompson does - and tries to pass himself off as some kind of expert in the matter.

 

[xcsti]

Yeah I he really does a great job throwing around the little power he does have. Worst of all the media eats it all right up. I hope PA puts up a stand and sends him home with a sore ass.

 

[Duke]

He actually sounds a lot like a German-American psychiatrist named Dr. Frederic Wertham from the '50s. He was on a crusade against comic books, the video games of their time. His landmark book Seduction of the Innocent lambasted comics as a major cause of juvenile delinquency. He interviewed hundreds of delinqunets and found that a large majority of them read comic books - so of course he leapt straight to the conclusion that the comics were the cause of the delinquency. He conveniently neglected to mention that almost exactly the same percentage of normal kids read comic books, too - this was the '50s, remember.

In Seduction of the Innocent he pulled all kinds of slimy tricks like reprinting a page from a comic book showing a young woman, but he added large black rectangles over her breasts and crotch. The intended result is of course that all the hysterical comics haters assumed the woman was naked... when in the real original illustration she was wearing a fairly modest 2-piece bathing suit.

He was able to stir up a huge amount of backlash, and eventually the industry created the Comics Code Authority (much like the PMRC or ESRB boards) that approved most comic books for sale.

Even though there were a number of people in the media who were critical of comic books, Dr. Wertham's book Seduction of the Innocent, published in 1954, had the most devastating effects. In this book Dr. Wertham stated that in his studies with children, he found comic books to be a major cause of juvenile delinquency. This assertion was based mostly on guilt by association. The vast majority of kids in those days read comic books, including the ones who became delinquents. But according to Dr. Wertham, comic books caused the children to become delinquents.

But comics went much further than just turning kids into juvenile delinquents. According to Wertham, comic books were giving kids wrong ideas about the laws of physics, because Superman could fly! He also charged that comic books were implementing and re-enforcing homosexual thoughts because Robin was drawn with bare legs, that were often wide open, and that Robin seemed devoted and attached to only Batman. Dr. Wertham also stated that Wonder Woman was giving little girls the "wrong ideas" about a woman's place in society.

 

[xcsti]

I think this article answers pretty much all of jacko's arguements

 

[the_undrtaker89]

Wow, do all of you think that games like GTA have nothing to do with kids killing other kids?

 

[xcsti]

Sarcasm?

Kids who want to kill other kids will. Just because the kids who happen to enjoy real violence also may enjoy killing people in the virtual world does not mean that me, a skinny wuss who wouldn't hurt anything, shouldn't be able to burn alive whomever I want in a videogame.

BTW- Bit more background on the dude

 

[the_undrtaker89]

Well these kids have got to be learning to kill other kids from somewhere? Now I'm not saying that videogames are to blame or that these games are telling kids to kill. But when these kids play games like GTA, games they should't be playing, it desensitizes them. I go to school and everyday there's a fight going on. My teacher tells me in his day kids only fought when there was a really good reason. Now everyone wants to be like a rapper and they walk around in gangs. They learn it from somewhere, and it sure as hell isn't their parents. The more death kids see on tv, at a younger age, the more they will begin to accept it and become kinda use to it.

Until they see it in real life that's when it becomes different.

 

[xcsti]

Well these kids have got to be learning to kill other kids from somewhere? Now I'm not saying that videogames are to blame or that these games are telling kids to kill. But when these kids play games like GTA, games they should't be playing, it desensitizes them. I go to school and everyday there's a fight going on. My teacher tells me in his day kids only fought when there was a really good reason. Now everyone wants to be like a rapper and they walk around in gangs. They learn it from somewhere, and it sure as hell isn't their parents. The more death kids see on tv, at a younger age, the more they will begin to accept it and become kinda use to it.

Until they see it in real life that's when it becomes different.

My response to the first part: I don't buy the training theory, which you semi suggest. If I did buy it I'd still have to point out that the main problem in most child murderors was that they were allowed access to weapons they did not respect. Hell I could learn how to kill someone in many ways just watching the history channel for an afternoon, would you consider that deleterious media?

I agree that children are becoming desensitized but I believe that it is the parents responsibility to monitor what the kid is playing/watching. I know when I was 16 I understood the difference between violence on the screen and in the real life. There are 30 year olds who can't get seperated (friend of a friend joined the military because he wanted to be able to express the violence he felt in playing video games). I don't think that you can simply say "this is not appropriate for anyone under 17". Every child is different and the parent is (hopefully) there to distinguish what there kid can take.

 

[Zrow]

Well these kids have got to be learning to kill other kids from somewhere? Now I'm not saying that videogames are to blame or that these games are telling kids to kill. But when these kids play games like GTA, games they should't be playing, it desensitizes them. I go to school and everyday there's a fight going on. My teacher tells me in his day kids only fought when there was a really good reason. Now everyone wants to be like a rapper and they walk around in gangs. They learn it from somewhere, and it sure as hell isn't their parents. The more death kids see on tv, at a younger age, the more they will begin to accept it and become kinda use to it.

Until they see it in real life that's when it becomes different.

Let's say you're right in that video games "teach kids to kill". Is it the video game industries responsibility to monitor what these kids play?

 

[James2097]

Wacko Jacko... Its the responsibility of the censors, and of the parents to respect these ratings.

If kids go watch porn, and then start feeling up the other kids inappropriately and talking super dirty all the time, you'd be silly to say the most appropriate action is to shut down the entire porn industry. Its just making sure that kids don't see content that isn't meant for them. Anything that deserves an R rating usually gets it. Its the consumer that must take into account these ratings and buy appropriately.

The basic problem is that many people (parents especially) still regard the video game industry as primarily for kids, when in actual fact the average age of a gamer is quite old, mid-twenties if I recall correctly. The movie industry has NO problem with violence or sex being in their product. This problem of using games as scapegoats for kid's criminal actions or violence will go away as soon as the game industry has matured enough to be thought of in a similar way to music or movies.

The difference of games being "interactive" is merely trivial IMO.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well these kids have got to be learning to kill other kids from somewhere? Now I'm not saying that videogames are to blame or that these games are telling kids to kill. But when these kids play games like GTA, games they should't be playing, it desensitizes them. I go to school and everyday there's a fight going on. My teacher tells me in his day kids only fought when there was a really good reason. Now everyone wants to be like a rapper and they walk around in gangs. They learn it from somewhere, and it sure as hell isn't their parents. The more death kids see on tv, at a younger age, the more they will begin to accept it and become kinda use to it.

Until they see it in real life that's when it becomes different.

Did you read this article when it was posted earlier? Youth crime rates have gone down since video games have been around. You hear about it more because the media is different now. You sound like my mom who can only argue her case with "garbage in, garbage out."

Are children impressionable? Yes. If that child wants to be a thug rapper or tries imitating things they see in video games or on TV how is it the fault of the industry? If parents would quit taking these things and turning them into the babysitter then the world would be better. Parents should pay attention to their kids and what they are doing. If you don't notice that your kids are playing something that you don't approve of or that they are building pipe bombs in the garage then it is you who are to blame. The computer and the Playstation do not belong in the bedroom. If your kid is chatting and you don't know who any of the people on their buddy list is then you need to sit down and talk with your child and find out who they are.

The only thing I can say to the gaming industry is that the stores need to enforce the ratings better. The movie and music industry can do it so why can't they?

For every case of a kid playing a violent video game and then performing a violent act I can give you ten of me playing a violent video game, with a light gun no less, and then turning it off to take my wife out to dinner or calling my mom to see how she is doing. So if we use teh rationale that this violent kid was playing a violent game before he committed a violent act so teh game must have made him violent then I can say that I did something nice for my wife or my mother after playing a violent video game so they must make me a better husband and son.

Lifelike games with non-violent themes don't make kids suddenly start doing whatever is in those games. Is it possible that children who are already violent are playing these games because they have a violent tendancy?

 

[xcsti]

The only thing I can say to the gaming industry is that the stores need to enforce the ratings better. The movie and music industry can do it so why can't they?

I wouldn't even claim that. I worked in an electronics department for a while. We never sold M (and even some t games for some reason) to kids under the age of 17. The register just wouldn't allow it. There were many parents who came in and bought violent games for their young children. No store can do anything about that, nor should they have to.

 

[Swift]

I wouldn't even claim that. I worked in an electronics department for a while. We never sold M (and even some t games for some reason) to kids under the age of 17. The register just wouldn't allow it. There were many parents who came in and bought violent games for their young children. No store can do anything about that, nor should they have to.

That's about it right there.

This makes no sense to me. children under the age of 14 CAN'T WORK! So where are they getting the games from? Their parents. Now, if good old Jack Thompson could prove that they were knowingly being sold to minors on a regular basis, he might have half a case. But as it is, he's just going nutz because there is money in it.

 

[FoolKiller]

I wouldn't even claim that. I worked in an electronics department for a while. We never sold M (and even some t games for some reason) to kids under the age of 17. The register just wouldn't allow it. There were many parents who came in and bought violent games for their young children. No store can do anything about that, nor should they have to.

I would rather see the ESRB set a standard the way the movie industry has so that it doesn't leave any room for legislation. The ESRB can say that any store found selling M games to minors don't get any more games or something along that line the way the MPAA does with theaters.

I don't think they should have to nor do I feel it should be an issue that they do it, but if it is the only way to prevent legislation then I will choose that. I feel that the ratings should be enough, as it is for TV, but apparently for people such as Mr. Thompson it isn't.

In all reality we shouldn't need a ratings system except as a courtesy to parents instead of as a standard. But we have the ratings system as a legal protection and if legislation is threatened to a higher degree then some enforcement policy needs to be put in place.

I demand nothing of the industry other than to provide me with quality games. If they want to avoid lawsuits an enforcement policy would be in their best interest. Then they are free of any possible legal fault and these lawsuits would be thrown out as frivolous or overturned in an appeals court.

I just want one gaming company to counter sue the parents for extortion.

 

[xcsti]

I would rather see the ESRB set a standard the way the movie industry has so that it doesn't leave any room for legislation. The ESRB can say that any store found selling M games to minors don't get any more games or something along that line the way the MPAA does with theaters.

But what about the number of unrated dvd's being sold? The vendors don't see any problem selling them. The movie industry loves to spring them up months after the initial dvd release to increase sales. I really can't believe that the video game industry is especially evil.

 

[FoolKiller]

But what about the number of unrated dvd's being sold? The vendors don't see any problem selling them. The movie industry loves to spring them up months after the initial dvd release to increase sales. I really can't believe that the video game industry is especially evil.

I don't remember saying the video game industry is especially evil. In fact, I am sure others can tell you I think the opposite. For me an enforcement is a legal "cover your butt" move, not an "I want to punish the evil corporation by making them do this" kind of move.

As for unrated DVDs, those are not part of the MPAA system. I would have no problem with a game being put out without a rating. No company is going to do that until the political climate surrounding video games calms down. After it does I predict we will see special unrated versions of games come out with a bonus level or deleted scenes. There is no reason not to. It would be a great money making ploy. I also don't know how the sales of unrated DVDs to minor works. That would be tricky because a special edition Disney cartoon could be unrated just to rush it to shelves. I have seen plenty on unrated DVDs that had nothing bad in them, but the production company decided not to run them back through the ratings process and pay the fees again.


My general philosophy for video games is that my kids will never play violent video games and I will determine what they can or cannot play, but if someone tries to tell me what I am allowed to let my kids play I will fight them all they way.

I was making a suggestion to the gaming industry as a way to survive in a lawsuit happy world. They shouldn't have to do it.

 

[xcsti]

I don't remember saying the video game industry is especially evil. In fact, I am sure others can tell you I think the opposite. For me an enforcement is a legal "cover your butt" move, not an "I want to punish the evil corporation by making them do this" kind of move.

As for unrated DVDs, those are not part of the MPAA system. I would have no problem with a game being put out without a rating. No company is going to do that until the political climate surrounding video games calms down. After it does I predict we will see special unrated versions of games come out with a bonus level or deleted scenes. There is no reason not to. It would be a great money making ploy. I also don't know how the sales of unrated DVDs to minor works. That would be tricky because a special edition Disney cartoon could be unrated just to rush it to shelves. I have seen plenty on unrated DVDs that had nothing bad in them, but the production company decided not to run them back through the ratings process and pay the fees again.


My general philosophy for video games is that my kids will never play violent video games and I will determine what they can or cannot play, but if someone tries to tell me what I am allowed to let my kids play I will fight them all they way.

I was making a suggestion to the gaming industry as a way to survive in a lawsuit happy world. They shouldn't have to do it.

I know you don't think the video game industry is evil, I tacked in a response to the way the media and jacko portrays them (violent evil child haters) at the end of my response to your comments.

I hadn't thought about the number of kids movies and made for tv movies that go unrated. I guess the fees though necesary are limiting.

 

[FoolKiller]

I know you don't think the video game industry is evil, I tacked in a response to the way the media and jacko portrays them (violent evil child haters) at the end of my response to your comments.

Oh, OK.

I hadn't thought about the number of kids movies and made for tv movies that go unrated. I guess the fees though necesary are limiting.

Made for TV gets rated by the TV system but is unrated on DVD, though most give the TV rating. I loved the idea of TV ratings because it undermined what legislators were trying to do to the broadcast industry and now South Park is syndicated on broadcast TV.

Ratings systems really are your way of waiving legal liabilty to the purchaser and should be enough. So far it has been but now people are attacking the system itself and how it is used.

Mr. Thompson feels the need to attack this industry anyway he can and I truly hope he goes bankrupt or someone sues him for filing a frivolous lawsuit with malicious intent.

Maybe I should watch my language before he threatens to sue me.