MS over RATED!!!! WHY?? well let me explain.

[f1king]

Ok first off to be considered a great driver you need to drive like your life depends on it. You must attack with passion, im sorry but im not feeling MS doing that at all. May be in his younger days. And as far as the first 2 championships I wont even count those. The titles where not even contested, I mean who was gonna take the title from him DH I dont think so. And when the first challanger JV came in he did nothing, DH won the title and that was that. The next year JV took it, after that MH 2 times in a row. And true some might argue that ferrari what not tip top at the time but hey he left Benetton just in time, and Frank williams didnt want him anyway so ferrari was the next step up for him. And he won last year because MH had lots of bad luck, as for DC he is a waist of time. And this year I allready said it JPM will be champion, mark my words. Any way I know this is a very MS pro site but I for one dont like him, and yes on paper he is the greatest but its ashame how he did it. I wish he had competition, like senna had mansell, prost, and all three fought hard against each other. And Fangio, Ascari, and Brabham had each other to contend with. MH is a much better driver he has real fire with in.
And if JV stayed at williams I bet that the record books would have looked very differnet right about now.

 

[Talentless]

There is one thing that I was impressed by. Car factored in or not, I think his performance after his leg injury a few seasons ago was very impressive.

 

[vat_man]

Well, as I've mentioned previously, I discount his first two championships because of Benetton's flagrant cheating in 1994 - they should have been thrown out of the championship for traction & launch control being found on their software, and for tampering with the refuelling equipment. If they'd been thrown out they'd have never got hold of the Renault motors for '95, etc.

That's without speculating on how that contact with Damon Hill at Adelaide in '94 came about....

And, he really should have had a couple of races off for that little incident in '97 when he tried to take Jacques off the track - that was the weakest penalty I've EVER seen handed down in motorsport.

I also find him smug and arrogant.

That said, he absolutely dominated in 2000 and 2001, and, let's be honest, if Eddie Irvine had been able to win GPs in '99, I think we can be pretty confident he would have won in 1999 as well (and I'm a BIG Hakkinen fan - I was there in '95 at Adelaide when he nearly killed himself, and then in '96 at Melbourne four months later when his eyes weren't pointing in the same directions, so that gritty little Finn's got my respect - plus how can you hate a guy who considers a question for two minutes, and then answers in a monosyllable).

I don't like Michael Schumacher, and I think he's forever tainted by the goings-on of 94, 95 and 97.

But - he is clearly the best of the current crop of drivers, and has been for some years. He's incredibly fast, able to build and motivate a team around him, and able to exploit every advantage he has. He extracts the maximum he can from every aspect of his performance. Do you ever remember him 'dogging' it on the track, even in '96 and '97 when the Ferraris weren't much good? Geez, with a bit of luck he could have won it in '97.

 

[f1king]

Well he is the best on paper. But in my opinion he is not one of the greatest, as far as skill goes, but talentless you are right about his come back from the leg injury that was his gutsiest preformance.

 

[vat_man]

Well - I don't want to be seen to be 'pro-Michael Schumacher' but I think a couple of points you made are challengeable:
- suggesting that Frank Williams didn't want him is true, but is simplistic. Ferrari and Marlboro offered Michael a very substantial amount of money, an amount that Frank simply wasn't willing to match - Williams has never been about paying drivers huge amounts of money. Frank also knew that Schumacher would have demanded he be number 1, and as we all know that isn't an option at Williams
- Williams went into a decline after Jacques world championship (and you may recall he was with Williams in '98) because of the poor Supertec engines, not because of poor drivers (although the Zanardi thing, and the Frentzen relationship, won't count as highlights). When Jacques was looking at renewal during '98 Williams really had little offer, as the BMW program was still some months off.
- Suggesting Schumacher was lucky last year is a long way off the mark. It was one of the most dominant performances in a World Championship we've seen since 1995. The Mercedes engine was down on power and reliability after the banning of copper-berylium, and Williams took a lot of points from David Coulthard - and let's not discuss launch control.

Your other point about there being no real rival is probably the most valid you made. Much as I love Mika, I don't think he's as good as Schumacher (although he's probably as quick). Villenueve never really showed his full potential (and sadly with current crop of young drivers we're seeing I think he's missed his chance) and Coulthard's just not in the same league.

 

[f1king]

Well I still have hope for JV if he gets the hell out of BAR for next year, now he is a ballsy driver.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by f1king
Well I still have hope for JV if he gets the hell out of BAR for next year, now he is a ballsy driver.

I really fear Jacques has left it a year too late. There's a 20 year old at McLaren who looked completely at home running to third place on Sunday, and plenty more of young talent around at the moment (Massa, Heidfeld, Webber, Sato), so if any of those guys look any good (and the first three certainly didn't shame themselves on Sunday) Jacques might find he's out of a slot. On top of that, Button looks like he might be back on it again.

The only chance he's got is if Coulthard is outperformed by Raikkonen, and if Renault decide to ditch either Button or Trulli - but there's plenty of young, cheap talent out there to pick from.

 

[Macka]

Originally posted by vat_man


I also find him smug and arrogant.

That said, he absolutely dominated in 2000 and 2001

I don't like Michael Schumacher, and I think he's forever tainted by the goings-on of 94, 95 and 97.

But - he is clearly the best of the current crop of drivers, and has been for some years. He's incredibly fast, able to build and motivate a team around him, and able to exploit every advantage he has. He extracts the maximum he can from every aspect of his performance. Do you ever remember him 'dogging' it on the track, even in '96 and '97 when the Ferraris weren't much good? Geez, with a bit of luck he could have won it in '97.

This pretty much sums it up for me. He IS arrogant and obviously is Bernie's golden boy. HOWEVER he is presently the best on the grid. He's consistent and makes very few mistakes...

I remember one race early last season, at the end of an extended yellow flag, MS was behind the pace car. Right before the green flag, he locked up the rears, then the fronts (by adjusting the brake balance all the way to the front, from the cockpit) He did this to warm the tires just before going back to green.

You just gotta respect that level of mindset.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by Macka


This pretty much sums it up for me. He IS arrogant and obviously is Bernie's golden boy. HOWEVER he is presently the best on the grid. He's consistent and makes very few mistakes...

I remember one race early last season, at the end of an extended yellow flag, MS was behind the pace car. Right before the green flag, he locked up the rears, then the fronts (by adjusting the brake balance all the way to the front, from the cockpit) He did this to warm the tires just before going back to green.

You just gotta respect that level of mindset.

Yup - that's the thing you gotta respect. He pushes everything to the absolute limit.

 

[Fogelhund]

I've never liked MS, and I ditest some of the tactics that he has used in the past.

However, he is easily the best driver of his time, and one of the best of all time. One of the factors that has made him so great, is being able to fabricate Ferrari into the team it is today.

Statistically, the only better is Fangio.

 

[made in holland]

I don't like MS at all.
He is one of the best drivers, but not the best. I think there are 7or 8 drivers just as good as him, or even better. He just has the luck to drive a ferrari, the best car out there.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I think he's a fabulous driver, and clearly the best of the current bunch, so I completely disagree with made in holland['i]'s assertion that there are "7 or 8 drivers just as good as him", unless of course mih is talking about all-time. only Montoya has anything like the on-track ability to consistently harry MS, and I think he's currently lacking the persistence and off-track effort to mount a consistent challenge at the moment.

That said, I think JPM and MS will have some cracking battles this year, at least as good as the one they had in Australia.

I also find some of his tactics unforgiveable, especially given that sometimes he has this clear advantage, but still behaves poorly on the track. It's his only real weakness.

 

[Pupik]

Ok, we get it already, you don't like Mike the Shoe Maker...

Originally posted by f1king
And Fangio, Ascari, and Brabham had each other to contend with.

Actually, Fangio and Brabham hardly ever competed with each other. Brabham's first season was 1955, but his first (nearly-)complete season was 1958, and by then Fangio only did a handful of races. They never fought for any position on the track. Now Fangio and Moss...

I already said in a previous post he's about as sportsmanlike as Senna was. Schumacher symbolically took the genius of Senna during the 1994 Brazilian GP. When Senna spun out, that marked it. Of course, we had no way of knowing what would happen after that...

Montoya or Raikonnen will likely be the next ones to take the crown. The opening (racing) laps at Melbourne testified that.