Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio de España 2022Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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NASCAR is notorious for being much more difficult for outsiders than it appears. Just ask Montoya, Danica, Marcos Ambrose among others. Over a career, you may snag a win or two on courses that suit you but consistent success is rare if you haven’t spent a lifetime in the series.
 
NASCAR is notorious for being much more difficult for outsiders than it appears. Just ask Montoya, Danica, Marcos Ambrose among others. Over a career, you may snag a win or two on courses that suit you but consistent success is rare if you haven’t spent a lifetime in the series.
I don't disagree with your statement. James Davison has never been very good and JJ Yeley has not had the level of success his background would lead you to believe (nor has Scott Speed or Scott Pruett). On the other hand, drivers like Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Mark Donohue are successful drivers with an F1 background as is Tony Stewart with an IndyCar background.
 
If Ricciardo wants to trundle around in 24th instead of 14th, go ahead. I wouldn't begrudge him wanting to go to NASCAR because he wants to but it would be foolish of him to go there thinking he'll be a big star.
 
If Ricciardo wants to trundle around in 24th instead of 14th, go ahead. I wouldn't begrudge him wanting to go to NASCAR because he wants to but it would be foolish of him to go there thinking he'll be a big star.
He doesn't think that at all. He knows he'll have his ass handed to him by those that have been doing this their entire lives. He says as much in the GQ Sports video. :lol:
 
I don't disagree with your statement. James Davison has never been very good and JJ Yeley has not had the level of success his background would lead you to believe (nor has Scott Speed or Scott Pruett). On the other hand, drivers like Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Mark Donohue are successful drivers with an F1 background as is Tony Stewart with an IndyCar background.
Stewart is really the only guy who broke out.
Andretti won once (although it was a big one), Gurney won 5 times, all at the same road course (Riverside) and Donohue’s sole win also came at the Riverside road course. And this was in an era when drivers crossed over here and there rather than completely switching disciplines as a career move.
 
Stewart is really the only guy who broke out.
Andretti won once (although it was a big one), Gurney won 5 times, all at the same road course (Riverside) and Donohue’s sole win also came at the Riverside road course. And this was in an era when drivers crossed over here and there rather than completely switching disciplines as a career move.
Don't want to jump too far off-topic, but Gurney only had a total of 15 races, Andretti only 14 and Donohue only 6.
 
Sad to hear you thought it was boring. Yeah the last 20 laps or so didn't have much action but the first half was some of the most exciting racing all year. I always enjoyed watching someone defend their position skillfully more than watching someone charge through the field. It's like an extended tension and a real clinic on racecraft.
yeh, ok the first half was great - I was just so tired and frustrated after how badly it fizzled out at the end I forgot.

I rate the first half 9/10 and the second half 1/10.

First half was great with some mega clinical defensive driving that was within the limits of rules and sportsmanship, and other highlights I loved to see
  • a Mercedes (or redbull or Ferrari) in an incident and shuffle to recover from the back
  • a Ferrari ( or Red Bull or Mercedes) mix up with a gravel trap excursion
  • a Red Bull ( or Ferrari or Mercedes) mix up with a gravel trap excursion
  • a Red Bull ( or Ferrari or Mercedes ) have easy DRS passes clipped with a faulty DRS
  • a Ferrari ( or Red Bull or Mercedes ) go out with a mechanical DNF

Second half was so tepid. There were lots of cars shuffling positions but it was just Tyres+DRS resulting in passing that seemed like going through motions to sort into order of performance / strategy choice. Team orders and strategy calls deciding the position of the first two cars.

This years cars and tyres seems to be a good formula, but it's a shame that the top 6 cars seem so much further ahead of the midfield.
 
As much as i dislike the fact that live F1 is now behind a pay wall and that when i do get to watch the highlights they're late on a Sunday evening, i do like that the boring bits get edited out. You do sometimes get a skewed impression of how a race has panned out, but with a highlights show, even one where you get to watch the majority of a race as you do with the C4 coverage, few races feel particularly boring.
 
Why are people surprised that Red Bull applied team orders? They've historically done it nearly every season since 2011. They have a strict no1/no2 hierarchy going back to the Vettel and Webber days. Purposely gave a weaker strategy to Perez once Leclerc was out of the picture, whilst letting Verstappen past (Perez actually got past Russell much easier) in the second stint. Not to mention, Perez wasn't even allowed to participate in Practice 1! They gave it to their test driver instead.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Danny Ric walk away from F1 at the end of this season. That was a really painful race.
Ricciardo doesn't strike me as the type to just give up and walk away. Especially since the current state of his career is entirely the result of his own actions. I think he'll want to take any contract he can get, hoping that one day he'll be driving for a midfield team that randomly becomes a dominant force.
 
Ricciardo doesn't strike me as the type to just give up and walk away. Especially since the current state of his career is entirely the result of his own actions. I think he'll want to take any contract he can get, hoping that one day he'll be driving for a midfield team that randomly becomes a dominant force.
That seems to be his entire career strategy. To accidentally fall ass backwards into a dominant car and hope he has a weak team mate.
 
Motorsport.com really going for Hamilton today.

Story version one:

Leaked Hamilton photo prompts Spanish GP parc ferme intrigue
A leaked photograph showing Lewis Hamilton walking behind Sergio Perez's Red Bull after Formula 1's Spanish Grand Prix has prompted intrigue over a potential breach of parc ferme rules.
Within which they go hard on "WELL VERSTAPPEN WAS FINED FOR THIS!".

Only it turns out that it's not during parc ferme, thus not a breach of parc ferme rules (the T-cam has been removed, or not yet attached; looks like it was shot on the Friday). And the picture wasn't leaked, it was lifted from a video (uncredited by Motorsport.com).

And the video shows Hamilton avoiding the wing like it's lava as he walks round the back of the car:




Although maybe he ran his hands across it before the video started I guess... Definitely giving it an Inspector Seb on the way past, but that's neither here nor there.

They've put out a corrective Tweet, and added the following as a third paragraph... leaving the entire rest of the article as-is...

A video surfacing online later appears to show Hamilton doing his best to avoid making contact with the wing.
 
I am a bit surprised about the fuzz here concerning the teamorders at RedBull.
Both where on different strategies and Max was (at least) at that time, one second per lap faster then Checo.
As team principal I would like to have the maximum points and not two cars colliding. And it is not a secret that RedBull main focus is the drivers championship and that the care less about the constructors. Hence, they want to keep the #1 on Max his car since he has been the constant fastest factor a few years.
 
rsh
I am a bit surprised about the fuzz here concerning the teamorders at RedBull.
Both where on different strategies and Max was (at least) at that time, one second per lap faster then Checo.
As team principal I would like to have the maximum points and not two cars colliding. And it is not a secret that RedBull main focus is the drivers championship and that the care less about the constructors. Hence, they want to keep the #1 on Max his car since he has been the constant fastest factor a few years.
The problem is moreso that the team orders happened so early in a very long season, and kinda put a damper on an otherwise unusually-exciting Spanish GP. I think there was no doubt that Max was going to pass Checo at some point in the closing laps, but having Max actually go for the pass would've been much more exciting from a spectator standpoint. From a strategy standpoint, the call makes total sense, but it's still a massive buzzkill after what was otherwise a pretty decent race.
 
The fact that Max made that error on his own but still benefitted from team orders twice really rubbed me the wrong way.

Tbf though, every team would do this under these circumstances, even if it’s early in the season. I get their reasoning but I still don’t like it. I just want to see some ****ing battles.
 
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It didn't matter how early in the season it was:

Bottas was second fiddle to Hamilton.
Kovaleinen was second fiddle to Hamilton.
Webber was second fiddle to Vettel.
Berger was second fiddle to Senna.
Fisichella was second fiddle to Alonso.
Coulthard was second fiddle to Häkkinen.
Barrichello was second fiddle to Schumacher.
Irvine was second fiddle to Schumacher.
Herbert was second fiddle to Schumacher.
Brundle was second fiddle to Schumacher.
Verstappen, Lehto and Patrese were second fiddle to Schumacher.

Senna/Prost, Mansell/Piquet, Hamilton/Rosberg situations are so rare. It is much, much more common for teams to do things the team order way in Formula One. You are in a fantasy land if you think it isn't what the status quo is and has been, 'officially' or not.
 
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I never understand this "it's so early in the season for teamorders" argument. Every win counts 25 points. If you didn't take the 7 more points now you can loose a championship later. If you do teamorders do it from the start or you can loose WDC like McLaren with Alonso and Hamilton.
 
I never understand this "it's so early in the season for teamorders" argument. Every win counts 25 points. If you didn't take the 7 more points now you can loose a championship later. If you do teamorders do it from the start or you can loose WDC like McLaren with Alonso and Hamilton.
The simple truth is that if Perez were able to qualify and show race pace as good or better than Verstappen then there would be no team orders. As it stands only a fool would think Perez has a shot at the WDC title so why wouldn't they maximize the points for the driver who has a great shot at it?
 
The fact that Max made that error on his own but still benefitted from team orders twice really rubbed me the wrong way.

Tbf though, every team would do this under these circumstances, even if it’s early in the season. I get their reasoning but I still don’t like it. I just want to see some ****ing battles.
I think I'd add on the point where Perez even said, "Let me by Max" when he was battling George & he still held position. Curious if that would've altered things a bit and allowed Perez to build a better distance.
 
The simple truth is that if Perez were able to qualify and show race pace as good or better than Verstappen then there would be no team orders. As it stands only a fool would think Perez has a shot at the WDC title so why wouldn't they maximize the points for the driver who has a great shot at it?
If that were the case then Red Bull would have backed Webber in 2010 and the second half of 2012 when he was ahead of Vettel in both cases. Same case applies to Verstappen vs Ricciardo when Ricciardo beat him in 2017 and 2018 then decided (against your own rules) to back Verstappen. Do you disagree with Red Bull's decisions then?

We have new rules, new cars, new aero new everything this season. All drivers should be given equal opportunities at least within the first 8 or so GPs. Red Bull have already decided to back Verstappen as they always have despite him almost losing last year with the fastest car and the FIA constantly giving him freebies.

Perez wasn't even given a shot at Practice 1 at the Spanish GP which hindered his race pace completely. It's despicable and goes against all forms of fair racing that we all want to see.
 
Perez wasn't even given a shot at Practice 1 at the Spanish GP which hindered his race pace completely. It's despicable and goes against all forms of fair racing that we all want to see.
To be fair for a minute, wasn't that because of a new requirement where teams have to run their rookie drivers in at least 2 free practice sessions?
 
To be fair for a minute, wasn't that because of a new requirement where teams have to run their rookie drivers in at least 2 free practice sessions?
Yeah that's true, but to do it so early in the season. It would be better for the rookie to do it towards the end of the season. Not to mention the Spanish GP is a track that is won mostly due to tyre deg/strategy in the past.
@Bosso

It’s not enough to win anymore. Teams want to build dynasties now. You need a star driver to do that.
It's a shame really. The insane amount of money needed to enter F1 both as a driver and as a team nowadays has escalated this.
 
As it stands only a fool would think Perez has a shot at the WDC title
Eddie Irvine, famously number two driver to Michael Schumacher, once came within two points of the title, actually leading the championship going into the final round at Suzuka (and by the current points system he would have won the title by nearly 20 points).

Only a fool would have thought Irvine was ever having a shot at it. But Schumacher broke his leg at round seven and missed half the season, and all of a sudden Irvine very much had a shot at it.

As Murray Walker was fond of saying, "F1 is "if" backwards".
 
Eddie Irvine, famously number two driver to Michael Schumacher, once came within two points of the title, actually leading the championship going into the final round at Suzuka (and by the current points system he would have won the title by nearly 20 points).

Only a fool would have thought Irvine was ever having a shot at it. But Schumacher broke his leg at round seven and missed half the season, and all of a sudden Irvine very much had a shot at it.

As Murray Walker was fond of saying, "F1 is "if" backwards".
Well yes, barring a violent accident for Max. Red Bull can't plan their strategy around that slim possibility though.
 
accident for Max ... slim possibility
:lol:

It's also the point: Red Bull can plan its strategy around it, because it happens. Yes, it wants to prioritize its #1 driver because last year it came down to the final race and even then it needed a snooker, so seven points now is great. But if it hamstrings its #2 guy too much and something happens to the #1 guy (who in 2021 parked it in three walls and on top of someone else's car, and brake-checked on the fastest street circuit), both championships are under threat.

But then I'm sure Horner has his eggs delivered each morning by the woman who manages his on-site poultry farm and never has to consider the concept of baskets.
 
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