MSN 1.5hr Manufacturer's Endurance Race Series

[Brzlav]

So yesterday we did a couple of Gr.4 lobby races around 30 minutes long.
I noticed some big issues within those race's.

This in & out ghosting while having a penalty like someone is turning it off & on by a light switch is annoying. It was causing some big issues like people driving right through you.
You also have no clue when or where it's going to happen or how long it will last.

What the Hell was PD thinking adding this crap in. We have the option to turn ghost on or off and if we wanted it on then we would setup the lobby that way. As far as I know there is nothing I can do to stop it.
They continue to ruin this game more & more every update.

We also got a good look into just how unbalanced the Gr.4 class really is.

Running at la Sarthe the damn Bugatti Veyron is about 50mph faster than every other car in the Gr.4 class and it would just blow by everyone on those long stretches.

My Porsche is still a slow ass turtle even after a 1% power increase this last update. It could not catch one car at la Sarthe. Even if I was right on someone's back bumper all up in the slipstream they would still pull away quickly from me.

It's just Frustrating how broken this game really is because of stupid things PD continues to add or not fix within the game. Easy fixable stuff too.

There is a reason for the WEC having a separate BoP between Le Mans and the other courses. And the organizers of the 24h Nürburgring race are doing the same, trying to get their competitors to the same top speed on the Döttinger Höhe straight.

Agree with the ghosting crap, I use ghosting "off" in my lobbies as well and it is frustrating, that ghosting is not "off" in general.

 

[Rinsky]

There is a reason for the WEC having a separate BoP between Le Mans and the other courses. And the organizers of the 24h Nürburgring race are doing the same, trying to get their competitors to the same top speed on the Döttinger Höhe straight.

Agree with the ghosting crap, I use ghosting "off" in my lobbies as well and it is frustrating, that ghosting is not "off" in general.

I can see why they are doing there own BOP because it's definitely needed.

The ghosting in this game is just about like everything eles. Nothing is consistent.

 

[Venster]

Ghosting isn’t great in lobbies, especially on strong. Prime example is on dragon trail, if you use SS tyres you go through the fast S so quick that I think the game thinks your going too fast and going off so you see other cars going in out of ghosting.

The problem with BOP is it’s too basic, Veyron was probably not competitive at a lot of tracks so to balance that they give it more power, but then you come to a power track ie Le Mans or Monza and it’s OP! What really needs to happen, the cars should have the same BHP per ton, then they adjust gearing and handling to level the field, that way you should have to use the cars strengths to get the best out of it. Just my opinion on the subject.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I made a list of all the Gr. 3 cars BoP HP/Weight but also included the power-to-weight ratios and it is a really big spread. If that was closer with less discrepancies between the cars it might be better overall.

In SNAIL we have all penalties off and use our own penalty system in which you file an Incident Report and there are stewards to review it. This is great because there's never any ghosting on track. The only issue is ever if you go off in a way like at a Monza chicane and it reset you on track. We're trying to figure out how to eliminate that but it's rarely an issue.

BoP in general is tough. That's kind of another reason why we use spec racing. Everyone is in the same car with the same specs and no tuning so you know everything is even and you're racing based on driver skill.

 

[Rinsky]

In SNAIL we have all penalties off and use our own penalty system in which you file an Incident Report and there are stewards to review it. This is great because there's never any ghosting on track. The only issue is ever if you go off in a way like at a Monza chicane and it reset you on track. We're trying to figure out how to eliminate that but it's rarely an issue.

It's a shame because no ghosting was working fairly well so why they decided to mess with it even more is beyond me. Why even have the option to turn it off now if they have no plans of turn it off.

I guess that's my only option now is to turn off all penalties. Now I know I could turn off the contact penalties and I bet nobody in our group would ever know. But track limit penalties turned off will probably be discovered quickly.
I don't want to police this race for every little thing so unless someone is really cutting the track boundaries I guess we just won't have any for now because I can't stand this ghosting crap going on.

Now as BOP goes I guess that's something I will have to live with driving the Gr.4 Porsche. I'm not out to win and good thing because its not going to happen in this car.
Even at tracks it's good at it's still not the best Gr.4 choice.
I like RWD cars and I like how the MR Porsche handles and Trail-Brakes but your an automatic mid pack runner because they refused to make it competitive.

 

[Brzlav]

Ghosting isn’t great in lobbies, especially on strong. Prime example is on dragon trail, if you use SS tyres you go through the fast S so quick that I think the game thinks your going too fast and going off so you see other cars going in out of ghosting.

The problem with BOP is it’s too basic, Veyron was probably not competitive at a lot of tracks so to balance that they give it more power, but then you come to a power track ie Le Mans or Monza and it’s OP! What really needs to happen, the cars should have the same BHP per ton, then they adjust gearing and handling to level the field, that way you should have to use the cars strengths to get the best out of it. Just my opinion on the subject.

That wouldn't work as you can not bring the handling of cars with different weights and powertrain architectures on the same level. Mid engine cars would obliterate the others on most tracks in your scenario.
You will always have tracks that suit one car better than the other. And for tracks with very special characteristics (like Le Mans), you need a separate BoP which GT Sport doesn't have.

 

[Venster]

Yeah I don’t mean you could adjust handling so they are identical, or the powertrains that’s not possible like you say. But from a very very basic starting point where the BHP per ton is the same more complex adjustments to other aspects of the car to level them would be better but still retain individual strengths or characteristics of each car.

I personally think it’s right and like different cars suit different tracks but not so OP that they easily dominate. Unless you have individual BOPs for each track you will never achieve an absolute level field.

 

[Rinsky]

I personally think it’s right and like different cars suit different tracks but not so OP that they easily dominate. Unless you have individual BOPs for each track you will never achieve an absolute level field.

Sadly that's true. Not that I want all the cars identical but it has to be made better.
If the Bugatti Veyron is going to remain that dominant in speed over the other cars then it needs to eat up the fuel much faster or something.

 

[Venster]

Yeah my point exactly it’s just too basic to adjust power and weight and expect a level playing field.

 

[fastone371]

It's a shame because no ghosting was working fairly well so why they decided to mess with it even more is beyond me. Why even have the option to turn it off now if they have no plans of turn it off.

I guess that's my only option now is to turn off all penalties. Now I know I could turn off the contact penalties and I bet nobody in our group would ever know. But track limit penalties turned off will probably be discovered quickly.
I don't want to police this race for every little thing so unless someone is really cutting the track boundaries I guess we just won't have any for now because I can't stand this ghosting crap going on.

Now as BOP goes I guess that's something I will have to live with driving the Gr.4 Porsche. I'm not out to win and good thing because its not going to happen in this car.
Even at tracks it's good at it's still not the best Gr.4 choice.
I like RWD cars and I like how the MR Porsche handles and Trail-Brakes but your an automatic mid pack runner because they refused to make it competitive.

Did we race in June with ghosting on?

 

[Rinsky]

Did we race in June with ghosting on?

No ghosting has always been off.

 

[ynot]

It's a shame because no ghosting was working fairly well so why they decided to mess with it even more is beyond me. Why even have the option to turn it off now if they have no plans of turn it off.

I guess that's my only option now is to turn off all penalties. Now I know I could turn off the contact penalties and I bet nobody in our group would ever know. But track limit penalties turned off will probably be discovered quickly.
I don't want to police this race for every little thing so unless someone is really cutting the track boundaries I guess we just won't have any for now because I can't stand this ghosting crap going on.

Now as BOP goes I guess that's something I will have to live with driving the Gr.4 Porsche. I'm not out to win and good thing because its not going to happen in this car.
Even at tracks it's good at it's still not the best Gr.4 choice.
I like RWD cars and I like how the MR Porsche handles and Trail-Brakes but your an automatic mid pack runner because they refused to make it competitive.

Something I have thought about trying is finding a weight and power all cars can get to and set the weight and power to that instead of BOP. I have not tried it yet. Not sure if the cars would be more even or not.

 

[ynot]

In the end just pick some settings and run with it. It will never be perfect but it will be the same for everyone.

 

[Rinsky]

Something I have thought about trying is finding a weight and power all cars can get to and set the weight and power to that instead of BOP. I have not tried it yet. Not sure if the cars would be more even or not.

It's something to consider. So far it only appears to be a bigger issue at high speed tracks but we have only done 3 race's so I really don't have enough data in our endurance races to know if it goes further than that

I do know the length of our race's changes things quite a bit so I can't really go by the data others have posted in shorter runs.

 

[Rinsky]

Here is my proposal to YNOT racing for our club vs club race.

So this is just an idea I had for our race together again its just an idea.
I would also be very interested in hearing what others have come up with.

Cars
Toyota GT86 in Matte White
Subaru BRZ in Matte Blue

One team will run the GT86
The other team runs the BRZ

Cars are completely 100% stock with No BOP and No Tuning.
Both cars are identical in speed and lap time but are different in shock and suspension setup.

NASCAR style numbers & placement on the Doors, Roof, on the Rear license plate & on the Front license plate.

One team gets Even Numbers
One team gets Odd Numbers

4 races in all.

Race 1 & 2 are ran simultaneously with 8 members from each team in each race.

The top 8 finishers from both race's 1 & 2 will compete together in the -
Final Championship Race.

The bottom 8 finishers from both race's 1 & 2 will compete together in the -
Runners-up Cup.

The winners from both final race's will receive absolutely nothing except Bragging Rights & The memories of two great Clubs coming together for a great race.



Don't know if we can actually get 16 people from each team to participate but if not then we would probably have to hold a race within our own clubs to see who the top 8 would be for the main race.

If everyone somehow decided to go with this idea and since our club came up with everything you see so far. Your club would have the final say in what tracks we race on and the lobby settings for the races.

Like fuel & tire wear if any.
Length of the races.
Penalties & damage settings if any and so on.

This is just one idea though.
So if anyone else has an idea please share it with us as I'm excited to see what others come up with.
However we do ask only one thing. Since they are currently running Gr.B and we are running Gr.4 please do not pick those two classes.

 

[Venster]

Sounds like a good combination!

Any of the lower end of N rated cars usually result in close fun racing!

 

[Rinsky]

Sounds like a good combination!

Any of the lower end of N rated cars usually result in close fun racing!

You are absolutely correct.
This is almost like a one make race but it's not seeing as PD set the suspension up different on both cars. So they handle different but power and weight are identical.

 

[Venster]

One makes Can really be the most exciting races of all, all down to nothing but driver skill and usually down to tenths of a second!

 

[DesertPenguin]

One makes Can really be the most exciting races of all, all down to nothing but driver skill and usually down to tenths of a second!

It's what SNAIL is founded on. Maybe a three race championship in one night. Add up each club's points for the races and see who's 1st and who's 2nd at the end of the night.

Maybe increase difficulty with each race, so start with low N class such as Rinsky's combo, then move up to say a one-make with the Clio on grippier than stock tires, either SS or RH, not sure if RH would be too much. The idea being to replicate the real world Clio Cup cars. Then top it off with a Gr. 3 race or the R.S.01 Gr. X since it's like Gr. 3 but a little better all around.

 

[Jarnokee963]

Still a car availble doesn't matter wich one?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Tag me when you guys get something set up I'd like to join if I can

 

[Rinsky]

Still a car availble doesn't matter wich one?

This is the List of available cars right now. Does not matter which one you choose just as long as you like it.

Lexus
Veyron
Ferrari
Mercedes
McLaren
Subaru
NSX
Scirocco
4C

 

[Jarnokee963]

This is the List of available cars right now. Does not matter which one you choose just as long as you like it.

Lexus
Veyron
Ferrari
Mercedes
McLaren
Subaru
NSX
Scirocco
4C

Love the concept but just saw your 7PM time is USA time and in my timezone 2AM the race start and since i sometime's work on saturday that isn't possible.

 

[Rinsky]

Love the concept but just saw your 7PM time is USA time and in my timezone 2AM the race start and since i sometime's work on saturday that isn't possible.

I've had a few people not able to join because of that. I work on Saturdays and don't get off until 5pm. So it was impossible for me to start it any earlier than that on Saturdays.

 

[Rinsky]

It's what SNAIL is founded on. Maybe a three race championship in one night. Add up each club's points for the races and see who's 1st and who's 2nd at the end of the night.

Maybe increase difficulty with each race, so start with low N class such as Rinsky's combo, then move up to say a one-make with the Clio on grippier than stock tires, either SS or RH, not sure if RH would be too much. The idea being to replicate the real world Clio Cup cars. Then top it off with a Gr. 3 race or the R.S.01 Gr. X since it's like Gr. 3 but a little better all around.

I like this idea as well because it will change what class of cars people are good at. Like I'm horrible at Gr.3 but really good with N-Class on SS.

Everyone needs to Keep those ideas rolling in.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

I like this idea as well because it will change what class of cars people are good at. Like I'm horrible at Gr.3 but really good with N-Class on SS.

Everyone needs to Keep those ideas rolling in.

Less grip and less downforce is always better

 

[Rinsky]

Less grip and less downforce is always better

It's always been about this to me.
For anyone who knows me they will tell you it's always been about the Road Cars for me. In every GT game I've ever played you would be very lucky to see me in a Race Car. I could car less about them and would spend all my time in all those awesome Road Cars.

I know this must sound strange coming from the man who is running Gr.4 class endurance races.
But GTS focus is not about Road Cars and it shows as the N-Class is the most unbalanced class in the game and very few people create events around them.
Trust me I would love to get a good N-Class Series going and I'm working on it all the time.

GTS did give us the Gr.4 Class and in my opinion they are more like their Road Car counterparts in keeping a lot of that Road Car personality & soul more so than any of the all out lifeless Race Cars in Gr.3 class and up.

 

[Rinsky]

So I'm about to do the unthinkable. I'm signing with Porsche even though I've worked for Ford for 20 years and my times are faster in both Mustangs. But I'm more consistent in the Porsche overall and my job is not paying me to race for Ford in the game nor would they even care if I was good enough to win it all. I'm not good enough of course.

This decision is driving me crazy

 

[Hasse R]

So I'm about to do the unthinkable. I'm signing with Porsche even though I've worked for Ford for 20 years and my times are faster in both Mustangs. But I'm more consistent in the Porsche overall and my job is not paying me to race for Ford in the game nor would they even care if I was good enough to win it all. I'm not good enough of course.

This decision is driving me crazy

Yeah, this was a tough one. I went with Toyota cause of the stable nature of both the 86 Gr4 and the Supra Concept Gr3. I'm hoping this will pay off with less yuck-ups (which is always the fastest way..!), over the course of three seasons. Only time will tell...

 

[Rinsky]

Yeah, this was a tough one. I went with Toyota cause of the stable nature of both the 86 Gr4 and the Supra Concept Gr3. I'm hoping this will pay off with less yuck-ups (which is always the fastest way..!), over the course of three seasons. Only time will tell...

I think your right because being more consistent is always faster than one or two hot laps.