Multiscreen Discussion Vs BIG Screen Discussion

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
  • 53 comments
  • 5,508 views
Hi Mr Latte, thanks for your kinetic info.

If you ran 3 screens at say 60 degrees each for a total of 180 degrees and used kinetic, do you think the tracking would do anything? Or would the total FOV be so high that there is no room left for the kinetic to view additionally?

Can you setup the kinetic so that it does not detect head movement until your head has turned far to the right or left?
 
FatnSlo
Hi Mr Latte, thanks for your kinetic info.

If you ran 3 screens at say 60 degrees each for a total of 180 degrees and used kinetic, do you think the tracking would do anything? Or would the total FOV be so high that there is no room left for the kinetic to view additionally?

Can you setup the kinetic so that it does not detect head movement until your head has turned far to the right or left?
Click to expand...

No probs I just wish I had a finished cockpit to show off and have it looking swell.

With FM4 as in FM3 the setup seems to be pretty much the same regards the options. One thing that FM4 does not offer in the configurations which for example GT5 had is a setting for the "Screen Curvature Angle".

FM4 lets you set the angle of the screens and the gap between them to help (like a TVs overscan feature) align them to compensate for the gap in screen borders. So really if you have your screens physically angled at 60 degrees then the angle you set in game should match to allow for a good alignment. Regardless of screen angle, positioning of the player both in height and distance is required for a good working screen alignment. The perfect test is a pit wall appearing as perfectly horizontal. However if your not at the right height and matching seating angle then that alignment will be off.

Ive not done enough testing yet to see if/how adjusting the screen angle alters the FOV as you mention. My own setting is at 50 degrees and Kinect gives approx 30% of a screen additional movement left/right. FM4 is also missing the FOV option GT5 had allowing two settings in game.

Maybe I will consider doing a guide like the GT5 one to help.
 
ImSixString
Haven't noticed any car bugs but one that bothers me is in 2 heat championships. If your first heat is at dusk and the second heat is afternoon, the side screens are still in time of day from the first heat during the second heat. At least for me it's that way, really annoying.
Click to expand...

Not 3 screen related but if I'm not mistaken I think another problem with the alternate time tracks is it seems the shadows are facing the same way in both time frames. I guess it would depend on time of day but shouldn't they be the opposite way? I could be wrong on this one though in that they do seem to be longer shadows at the right times. I might have to take this one back. Maybe the times of day aren't extreme enough to warrant that.
 
Well I have had 3 screens since FM3 so I am pretty familiar with how it all works.

Do you think you could take the time to set your screens to 60 degrees each (I know they won't align with your setup) just to see approximately how much additional view you would get with kinetic if any?

I am considering getting kinetic, but don't want to waste my money if it will not provide an additional side views beyond what I am already getting.
 
On the Forza forums for FM3, I wrote up a method of calculating how much degree's hidden you should use. This has worked very well for me although I don't know if it is completely accurate. Here it is:

This is how I determine degrees hidden

Monitor width including bezel / The degrees between screens you are using = inch per degree

Monitor width including bezels - Actual display width = inches hidden

Inch per degree / Inches hidden = Degrees hidden

For example. I have a 22.875" wide monitor with a display width of 21.5" and I am using 47 degrees per screen.

So:

22.875 / 47 = .487

22.875 - 21.5 = 1.375

1.375 / .487 = 2.823 degrees hidden

So since Forza lets you use degrees hidden in increments of .2 you would use 2.8 degrees hidden on each screen

If all your monitors are the same, then you only need to do this once. If you have different sized monitors then you need to do this for each one.
 
FatnSlo
Hi Mr Latte, thanks for your kinetic info.

If you ran 3 screens at say 60 degrees each for a total of 180 degrees and used kinetic, do you think the tracking would do anything? Or would the total FOV be so high that there is no room left for the kinetic to view additionally?

Can you setup the kinetic so that it does not detect head movement until your head has turned far to the right or left?
Click to expand...

Right well I spent some time with the options.
The 60 degrees setting seems nigh on perfect for cockpit distance. Feels very natural at that and if anything the setting I had felt a little too close. So I would expect 55-60 to be popular settings.

The "Screen Degrees" effects the FOV on FM4 you are right. The angle of the monitors aligning seems to depend on the persons position/distance as to what angle you set your screens to. Im trying to overlap my bezels on my monitors too which effects the alignment a little as the centre monitor is a little further back. This seems to effect FM4 more than it did GT5. It is a shame FM4 hasnt had an upgrade in this area with more options available or a screen test mode for easing alignment.

Kinect works fine with it and still gives a good range of movement even at 60 degrees. Nurburgring F1 circuit is a great example when using Kinect and multiscreens. Kinect detects slight movement if setup correctly. I had it even working with the lights off and the light from the monitors seemed enough for it to operate surprisingly.

Thee look kinda weird on here but when in game the Enzo cockpit is superb.







 
Thanks for your Kinect analysis Mr Latte! I will get one if I can find a good used one for cheap.
 
Mr Latte
...
Kinect works fine with it and still gives a good range of movement even at 60 degrees. Nurburgring F1 circuit is a great example when using Kinect and multiscreens. Kinect detects slight movement if setup correctly. I had it even working with the lights off and the light from the monitors seemed enough for it to operate surprisingly.
...
Click to expand...

I picked up a Kinect because of the positive opinions on this forum but I haven't been able to see it's virtues...at least yet. Granted, I only spent about 20 minutes with it but I get very little side-to-side movement (a few degrees max) and when going straight I am getting side-to-side movement when I don't want any - which is very distracting.

Is this a setup issue? How much side-to-side should I get? I would like to be able to see a car coming up on my left or right in my blind spot.
 
FuzzyFassbender
I picked up a Kinect because of the positive opinions on this forum but I haven't been able to see it's virtues...at least yet. Granted, I only spent about 20 minutes with it but I get very little side-to-side movement (a few degrees max) and when going straight I am getting side-to-side movement when I don't want any - which is very distracting.

Is this a setup issue? How much side-to-side should I get? I would like to be able to see a car coming up on my left or right in my blind spot.
Click to expand...

Pause the game and goto the headtracking option.
It is rather simple to change to a setting that should work better for you.

I still need to go back and see what settings I have had, aint played the game in a few days.
 
Mr Latte
People are welcome to post images of their setups and give feedback of their impressions or question those that can help.
Click to expand...
Here is my current setup. Light and clean by design. My viewing distance is really close at 2 feet on three 24" 1080p monitors and one 9" 480p monitor. There is no center pole between my legs and I offset my pedals to the right side (I gas/brake with my right foot). My wheel is hard-mounted. The monitors are fully adjustable in height and angle which is critical for proper multiscreen alignment. Hidden cables and hardware.

The rearview monitor is useful for open tops and race cars as they often lack a rearview mirror in cockpit view. I use a wireless headphone with mic for online play.
 
Mr Latte
Forza 4 suffers from the same issue as Forza 3 showing a VW Bora as a default car for additional screens/consoles that are not updated with Disc 2 or probably DLC content.
Click to expand...
To get the side screens to properly display the launch DLC cars (eg. the pre-order cars), simply go to the in-game Marketplace menu and download the free BMW. The clue is that the free BMW is about 380 MB because it actually contains all the *current* DLC cars.

If you were getting the VW Bora for reasons other than the DLC cars, then it is likely because you haven't installed the 2nd disc content to the hard drive of the side screens. I suggest also installing the 1st disc to the hard drive to be safe.

I suspect for future DLC cars, we would be able to download a free "Sample Car" that will actually contain all the DLC cars in the pack. This is how it was for FM3. I guess this is necessary because even if people don't buy the DLC pack, it is still necessary for them to see other players using the DLC cars online.
 
FatnSlo
If you ran 3 screens at say 60 degrees each for a total of 180 degrees and used kinetic, do you think the tracking would do anything? Or would the total FOV be so high that there is no room left for the kinetic to view additionally?
Click to expand...
In the parorama picture below, I am running 75 degrees per screen (225 degrees total FOV). With most cars I tested, the cars are modelled to see details slightly beyond 180 degrees. I noticed that on some of the R1 cars, it is not modelled beyond 180 degrees and you start to see some graphic clipping.

You may have notice that I am able to run at such high degrees because I have purposely built my cockpit to accomodate FM4. I seat really close with my 3 screens basically wrapped around my head. I know to this from my experience in FM2 and FM3 that I need to seat really close to the monitor to get proper alignment and see more of the cockpit (something I like). If your monitors are mostly in front of you, then you need to run at around 45-55 degrees and everything seems more "zoomed" in like during the pre-race animation. You won't be able to see much of the cockpit.

Click on the link below to see an "interactive" panorama view of my multiscreen in FM4 running at 75 degrees per screen (drag your mouse to view the screens):

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=d8b6125a-557e-41f8-b02a-cc212e08f643
 
RazorPuF
To get the side screens to properly display the launch DLC cars (eg. the pre-order cars), simply go to the in-game Marketplace menu and download the free BMW. The clue is that the free BMW is about 380 MB because it actually contains all the *current* DLC cars.

If you were getting the VW Bora for reasons other than the DLC cars, then it is likely because you haven't installed the 2nd disc content to the hard drive of the side screens. I suggest also installing the 1st disc to the hard drive to be safe.

I suspect for future DLC cars, we would be able to download a free "Sample Car" that will actually contain all the DLC cars in the pack. This is how it was for FM3. I guess this is necessary because even if people don't buy the DLC pack, it is still necessary for them to see other players using the DLC cars online.
Click to expand...


Nice to see you still around...

I downloaded all "Redeem Code" content for 3xLCE 1x for each console and all 2nd disc installed to harddrive. You are right that one of the files is much larger (Approx 170mb for the UK LCE Subaru) and some others its very little.

I can tell you that the Bora bug for me still appeared IIRC.
I found I needed to log each X360 in and sometimes it gives a connection error message but has the effect of sorting the Bora problem.
Will look into what your saying regards the BMW.

I think the loggin in on each console is part of the key to it working as it certainly worked the other night and I cant remember if one of the redeem codes is the BMW or its a different DLC requirement.
 
I am certain that you need to download the *free* BMW car on the side concoles in order to the pre-order cars to work. Altrenatively, you can use (and waste) a pre-order code on the side screens. In fact, you don't even need to have 3 LCE. Currently, I have:

Centre screen

LCE + Bonus Track code + VIP code + pre-order Bonus car code (Alfa Romeo, BMW, Subaru or Honda)

*no need to use the Muscle Car code since it is already included in the VIP code (give it to a friend)

Left & Right screens

Standard Edition + Bonus Tracks code + Free BMW download from Marketplace menu (these are for the pre-order bonus cars models)

*no need to use the 2 pre-order code since all the pre-order cars models are in the free BMW (give codes to friends)

*no need to use the 2 Muscle Car code since the muscles cars models are already on the discs and I don't need to actually drive the car on the side screens (give code to friends)

Testing:

At first, I also got the VW Bora on the side screen when I used my pre-order bonus car. As soon as I downloaded the free BMW, everything was fine.

Download times (clues):

Muscle Car pack = 1 second (i.e. already on disc)

VIP code = 1 second (i.e. already on disc)

Bonus Tracks = 1 second (i.e. already on disc)

Pre-order Cars = 5 minutes (need to download, otherwise defaults to VW Bora. Download with code (centre screen) or download the free BMW (side screens).
 
My take on Multiscreen vs BIG screen:

It needs to be understood that the advantage of Triplescreen isn't about the size of the screen, but about the Field Of View (FOV). It doesn't matter if you have a 32" TV or a 120" Projection, it is still on a *single* plane.

Whether you seat 5 feet from a 32" TV or 10 feet from a 120" screen, your physical (actual) FOV is still only around 45 degrees while the game (at default setting) displays around 75 FOV. This creates a compromise and hence the cars at the edge of the screen appears slightly stretched. Your eyes will adjust and compensate the differences, but it will be there.

On a single screen (regardless of size), it is mathematically impossible to get 180 degrees FOV unless you press your nose against the screen. This is the same reason why many screenshots of triplescreens appears "bent" because our camera can only capture a single plane. You really need to put the camera "inside" the triplescreen setup to properly capture the FOV. See example of my setup with 225 degrees FOV below (drag picture with your mouse):

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=d8b6125a-557e-41f8-b02a-cc212e08f643

If you use a really large single screen (e.g. 120" projection), it still doesn't solve the FOV problem, and IMO, everything is too large and out of proportion. The steering wheel is 4 feet wide and it feels to me like a tiny mouse driving a giant car.

With proper triplescreen, the cars do not appear stretched. Everything is aligned. There is no distortion. The proportions are correct. The software has to support it (FM2, FM3 and FM4 does).

In the PC would, you can buy a triplescreen video card and increase the screen resolution to super wide, but unless the software supports it (iRacing does), than the images will still appear stretched. *** It is not enough to have a super wide aspect ratio... you need to have the screens wrapped around your head to achieve proper 180+ degrees FOV.

Since I use round 75 degrees per screen (225 FOV total), kinect isn't necessary IMO. If you run at around 50 degrees per screen (150 FOV total), than kinect can still add some benefit to help see into the blindspots.
 
Ok, you guys now have me considering a triplescreen setup...thanks alot :nervous:
Have a couple of questions:

1) I have an old Xbox 360 that had the DVD ROM replaced and now cannot get updates or go online. Would this still work for a side view?
2) What do you think it would look like if the center screen was 32" and the sides 23" - all 1080P? Reason being, if I am not playing Forza I really like the 32" and being a HDTV it serves another purpose in my man cave.
3) I have the pre-order (Standard Ed.) bonuses and Season Pass. Would I also need these for the side screen Xbox's? Would prefer to save some money for the second and third with used copies off of eBay.

EDTI: Tried a Kinect but didn't work good for me. It could have been a configuration issue but in testing it seemed to bounce around from glare off of my helmet shield...err, I mean glasses :)

Thanks
 
@FuzzyFassbender, with your constraints, I would not proceed with a triplescreen setup.

1) Not able to go online with one of your consoles would be a show-stopper because you must connect to live to get the latest updates and DLC content for ALL consoles.

2) Mixing a 32" with 23" monitors is unacceptable for me because images will be massively misaligned, but you may find it acceptable.

3) You can use a used copy for the side screens and download the free sample car to get all the DLC and pre-order *cars*. You don't need the code since you don't need to drive the DLC cars on the side screens. As long as you download the free sample car, you will be able to see all of them. However, you won't be able to see the extra *tracks* that came with every new copy of FM4.
 
RazorPuF
@FuzzyFassbender, with your constraints, I would not proceed with a triplescreen setup.

1) Not able to go online with one of your consoles would be a show-stopper because you must connect to live to get the latest updates and DLC content for ALL consoles.

2) Mixing a 32" with 23" monitors is unacceptable for me because images will be massively misaligned, but you may find it acceptable.

3) You can use a used copy for the side screens and download the free sample car to get all the DLC and pre-order *cars*. You don't need the code since you don't need to drive the DLC cars on the side screens. As long as you download the free sample car, you will be able to see all of them. However, you won't be able to see the extra *tracks* that came with every new copy of FM4.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. As for the old Xbox, I was afraid that would be the case. That isn't a show stopper as I can pick another console up to replace that. I understand the misalignment but wonder if it will still provide the perripheral vision I am looking for - the large blind spot bothers me. I guess I would look at it like how the rearview mirror is used. I do have 3 23" monitors if I use my computer screens so I guess I could try it both ways - the 32" is just SO nice. Most racing games you can at least use side camera to briefly check left or right.

Damn, triple-screen cost sure adds up fast! When all is said and done - is it worth it. Can anyone that has done it comment?
 
Ok, I bit the bullet :crazy: Scrapped my first triple-screen plan and went with 3 - 27" Samsung SyncMasters (P2770HD). I am still experimenting with the various options but all I can say is WOW. But if you are susceptible to motion sickness I wouldn't suggest driving with triple-screen :D
It is just so strange to look left/right to see what is beside you and looking around corners. While I liked cockpit views for realism I found myself avoiding for racing because of the lack of peripheral vision. With triple-screen it makes the cockpit view not only less restrictive but vastly preferable.

Note: I wasn't real fond of the Alps track before but I am now able to see how SO beautiful the surroundings are. I am finding myself sight-seeing instead of racing :)

If anyone has been considering Forza and triple-screen, I would highly recommend. I cost is high but not so bad if you look at what some are putting into their PC rigs. With a good wheel and sound system it really starts to become a driving/racing simulator :cheers:
 
Mr Latte
I'd like the idea of 3x Projectors but bigger screens in multiscreen mean sitting further back. 24" - 27" displays should please most with a close F.O.V

I ain't had much time with FM4 yet but here's just a few shots...
Cockpit view with multiscreens is superb in FM4 and really enhances the sense of speed too.

r5L4F.jpg


tIqOT.jpg


0STeg.jpg
Click to expand...

I like that idea too :cheers:
 

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