NASCAR Thread.

[TS]

Boris Said, Pruett and Fernandez have the best shot at winning. Considering that JPM, Smoke or Hamlin for that matter aren't competing, the best Nationwide regulars I feel that have a shot to win are Kyle Busch and Edwards, although neither of them are spectacular at road courses.

Crapshoot much?

 

[JohnBM01]

John Sounds Off! - NASCAR International
I'm G:censored:damned sick of some NASCAR fans. I know we're having some USA vs. Mexico folks in politics and stuff. However, we're talking about sports and not politics. Some dope E-Mailed WindTunnel talking about that NASCAR should stay in America and not go off into international locales. If this is true, then Jaguar and MG shouldn't have raced in a NASCAR event. Or maybe Juan Pablo Montoya should steer clear of NASCAR. Or maybe open-wheel stars not born in America should stay away from NASCAR. A reason why I've hated NASCAR (and mostly certain NASCAR fans) is that NASCAR's the All-American sport in which nobody wants to give any non-American racer (even Canadians) any such love. If it's one thing I hate, it's being pro-patrotic in all facets of any sport or anything like that. It's the kind of Post-9/11 mentality that all foreigners are evil. That all foreign makes racing in America's NASCAR are evil. Like the presumption that Toyota is killing NASCAR because only American cars and American stars should race in NASCAR with no support from anyone or anything that isn't American. This is also the reason in which that while NASCAR is trying to expand itself and expand its borders to the rest of the nation, it's still seen as a regional sport despite the fact they race in all four time zones in the lower 48. It's why people dumped crap all over California's Jeff Gordon for winning at Talladega a few years ago in Earnhardt Country. People need to realize that the NASCAR is not a regional sport. Not every driver's from the American Southeast anymore.

This is the reason why I don't consider myself a NASCAR fan... I know there are purists in NASCAR that support its history and how today's times are, but I can't get over the "it's American, so we race in America" deal. Get out and see the world for a change. I'm not just talking about the world as far as the news goes, but the world of talent. It's because not every good driver is from America. Give these people a chance. I've loved Juan Pablo Montoya since seeing him in 1999 winning the (then) CART championship over Dario Franchitti. I hate the pro-American mindset. What if Paul Tracy came into NASCAR and beat EVERYBODY'S asses to the finish line and on a consistent basis? Is he a good racer because he knows what it takes to win races, or is he a bad driver as a result of the kind of non-American prejudice that most NASCAR fans seem to have? Think about the configuration of el Autodromo de los Hermanos Rodriguez. The style of that course fits stock cars IMPRESSIVELY. That is a real NASCAR challenge based on the cars that race there. It's about expanding talent to me. It doesn't mean that NASCAR's little babies are going to run away from home pissing off NASCAR fans who equate Mexico to a pathetic example of American foreign policy. When are people going to realize that it's not the end of human civilization for NASCAR to take on a challenge of Mexico City and Edmonton. Was it the end of civilization when NASCAR raced in Japan in 1996? Then why the bloody hell are you giving NASCAR flak for racing outside of America? Is NASCAR so precious that going to a foreign country spells doom? Is the American economy THAT bad that NASCAR has to stay in America to help its own economy and not give race fans in Mexico a chance to see OUR most popular series? Adrian Fernandez is probably the greatest Mexican racer I know nowadays competing in NASCAR. Before then, he was a wonderful Champ Car racer. He's doing quite well in the ALMS. Do you imagine what it would mean for Mexican race fans to see one of their heroes compete in their home country? Would you imagine what it would mean for Canadian fans to maybe see racers like Ron Fellows?

Darrell Waltrip said that these non-American events don't have much longevity on WindTunnel tonight. I'm not going to cry foul just because NASCAR doesn't race in the States. NASCAR wants more international appeal much like the NFL, the NBA, and even Major League Baseball. Giving other drivers of other nations a chance to enjoy racing in America's biggest motorsport (like it or not). That's the mindset. There was going to be no "Latin Invasion" because Juan Pablo Montoya raced in this series. I think it all boils down to competition. NASCAR has no problem with competition. Trouble is, ovals do get boring after a while, don't you think? This is an upper-tier series in racing. Why not take on the challenge of road racing? NASCAR doesn't do road racing often. But when they do, they find some competitive road courses. Sears Point is the best example even when they didn't go to the more stock car-friendly configuration. Watkins Glen is a great NASCAR challenge as well, though I don't like Watkins Glen too much. They raced Heartland Park Topeka in the past as well. However, I best remember Riverside, though I never seen any race from Riverside except for when ESPN Classic aired a classic race from Riverside.

This is why NASCAR has my respect for racing in Mexico and Canada- it's still a regional (as far as international locales) motorsport. I usually feel that it's perfectly fine for American racing series to compete in Canada. But when it's an American series racing in Mexico, it's not as welcoming. I just hate the pro-American mentality, plain and simple. I am American myself. Just doesn't mean I have to unanimously give in to the "this is an American racing series, and they have no business in a country other than America." Well, Champ Car (or what was Champ Car) races around the world and no one complains about THEM going international. If anything, it was about having more American drivers. Some NASCAR fans have to realize that there is a challenge outside of America as far as sport goes. Mexico City and Montreal make exceptional racing. Both tracks (especially Mexico City) suits stock cars very well. It's a breath of fresh air to race on a track different from an oval. Even more a breath of fresh air to race in an event outside of the United States. It isn't like we have the best tracks in the world. It's just about challenge and fulfilling the international appeal NASCAR's trying to market. If haters should be happy about something, it's that the Sprint Cup crew aren't racing in Mexico and Canada, so it isn't like the premier series of NASCAR is abandoning America. I just don't like some NASCAR fanatics sometimes. I've grown to love international appeal aside from national appeal in motorsports. America's not the only nation in the world. America doesn't have the best drivers and tracks in the world. You have to branch out and take on several more challenges. It makes you better as a racer and as a person to say you've won in a domestic series racing in a non-domestic venue. Think of the F1 winners that have won at the two non-American venues the Nationwide series has raced at. Think of the F1 drivers that have won at the Mexican track NASCAR Nationwide Series races on ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autódromo_Hermanos_Rodríguez ): Dan Gurney, Graham Hill, Nigel Mansell, and Ayrton Senna among others. Think of the winners of the F1 G.P. of Canada that NASCAR are trying to be among (as far as winners go): Sir Jackie Stewart, the great Gilles Villeneuve, Nelson Piquet, Ayrton Senna, Damon Hill, and Michael Schumacher among others. Taking on these challenges adds character to the kind of races NASCAR races at. So don't give me this bulls:censored: about saying that NASCAR has no business racing in Mexico or Canada. I may have been a bit overaggressive and angry, but I'm sick of the pro-American types that think NASCAR racing outside the borders is bad for the sport. It comes down to competition and expansion. Mission accomplished by NASCAR. Just too bad people can't realize what a treat it is to race in Mexico and Canada while still being a uniquely American motorsport.


Also, in case you're interested, check this out: < http://www.nascarmexico.com.mx >. Maybe I'm taking the side that NASCAR racing in Mexico City and Montreal is good for racing because it's good to see NASCAR take on challenges outside of America and on competitive ROAD RACING courses. That's the key for me. Ovals in other countries is alright, but I love their road racing challenge outside of the U.S. It's not like NASCAR's leaving North America to go on a world tour (that will never happen). Since I'm taking the side that being in these races are in no way negative, why do you think most people still reject NASCAR doing such a thing when they are trying to expand the sport?

 

[opelgt1969]

This is the reason why I don't consider myself a NASCAR fan...

This is the only thing you said I agree with;so you should just not talk about NASCAR and go back to the motorcycle post. Yes Yes Yes NASCAR is and always will be one of the only southern redneck sports the best tracks and fans are in the southeast.

 

[Studentdriver]

Didn't read John's full post, gotta go to class in a few minutes, but I can guarantee that John isn't just here to lambast NASCAR. I know for a fact that he has enough interest in the sport to have a rooting interest. He just wants what is best for the sport and the fans, and that might disagree with you.

I suggest you pay closer attention to a member's history before effectively telling them to screw off.

 

[JohnBM01]

All I'm saying is that (and by the way, don't EVER say I'm a motorcycle guy. I know more about cars than motorcycles, though I try to balance both sides) I applaud NASCAR going to this kind of length. The challenges at Mexico City and Edmonton are great ones. At least more road racing is available to help offer some diversity. I am not sure if stock cars can handle it, but if they're committed to mostly the American Southeast, then why not race Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama? The more international talent from road racing need to have a road racing challenge to keep racing skills intact. I think even Dave Despain noted some E-Mail about NASCAR going to Mexico as having a lot of bigotry and didn't read it on the air. It's about competition to me. Competition in tracks and in cars. Toyota's still hated by some people (understatement) while others think NASCAR should stay on tracks in America and pay no mind to Mexico and Canada. A few other American series race in Canada, and they are almost perfectly fine with them coming around. There's no Canadians (as far as I know) saying "we don't need NASCRAP racing in Canada." Or the American Le Mans Series racing in America. Or even the Grand-Am doing the beautiful Mont-Tremblant circuit and the Mexico City track. It's been this closed-minded view of the world that most sports reporters still think of NASCAR as a regional sport despite the fact it's more diverse than what most people think. Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson are two Californians that have been kicking butt (no so much this season, however). I also love Carl Edwards. He is from Big XII country- Columbia, Missouri (where the University of Missouri is). Greg Biffle's all the way from the state of Washington. Even still, it's mentality like this that makes NASCAR such a regional sport and not really be acknowledged as a truly nation-wide racing series. Not every racing fan is like this, but some absolute purists really give out this kind of image. I need only mention Jeff Gordon's wins at Talladega when fans threw trash at Jeff Gordon as he celebrated. Just goes to show that even though there are soccer riots that go out of control elsewhere in the world, we can be just as bad at times.

I'm supporting NASCAR racing road courses outside of America to offer challenge and diversity outside from your average oval races. NASCAR knows their road courses even for a sport best known for ovals. It's a great challenge, and I hope both Mexico and Canada continue to support NASCAR racing at these two wonderful race tracks.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

I've been a NASCAR fan all my life and I'm extremely appauled in the last few years about the "die hard fans" reactions to everything from the COT,to Toyota and the new drivers,and now the whole international racing debate.


Most of those people are too stupid and close-minded to realized that Tundra's and Camary's are made HERE. COT's aren't perfect,but they made me eat my words last year by making most of the races (except Texas) enjoyable to watch.They have also saved (IMO) David Reuterman and Michael McDowell's life.


I love the fact that JPM is in NASCAR, he was one of my favorite drivers when I was younger, and I still see myself from time to time cheering him on. New blood in the sport-international or not- keeps the sport from stagnating.


On international courses, I would love to see NSC go to Mexico city and Canada, the Nationwide series races were awsome for the last couple of years!

 

[JohnBM01]

Do some of you think that NASCAR Nationwide should race on any American road courses rather than take on an international challenge? I would still like to see how NASCAR stock cars would do around Sebring or maybe even Road Atlanta. I don't think NASCAR would want to venture too far south of America or too far north of Canada. I don't know if NASCAR could take on the beautiful Mont-Tremblant circuit. Actually, I'm surprised NASCAR doesn't race Mosport. Mosport really fits NASCAR stock cars quite well (aside from being a great sportscar racing course). I do think it's cool to race Edmonton. I'm not hating.

 

[Studentdriver]

I think it would do NASCAR well to check out Mid-Ohio. There's actually a bit of void in the block consisting of West Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky.

And John, I think you mean Montreal, not Edmonton.

 

[JohnBM01]

Thanks for setting me straight. I knew Montreal was the venue, but I said Edmonton. I am human, after all.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

I would love to see NASCAR race at these courses:

Road Atlanta
Sebring
Mosport
Circuit de Gilles Villenuve (sp)
Leguna Seca?



Ironically, I remember talking about this same exact thing in earlier posts under this thread, but that time we were talking about the COT's handling those tracks.

 

[TS]

I would love to see NASCAR race at these courses:

Road Atlanta
Sebring
Mosport
Circuit de Gilles Villenuve (sp)
Leguna Seca?



Ironically, I remember talking about this same exact thing in earlier posts under this thread, but that time we were talking about the COT's handling those tracks.

The Natinowide series has a race at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

I'd love to see the cars take on the corkscrew at Laguna, but I think the splitter on the cup cars would be ground off after 1 lap.

 

[toyota_gt1]

How about the Daytona road course that hosts the Rolex 24 hour race.
The trasition on to the banking might cause a problem however.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

I know the Nationwide series races there, I should've been more specifice.

Yeah Leguna Seca's Corkscrew would play havoc on the splitters, same thing with sebring.

 

[JohnBM01]

Most of the international stars and non-oval racing stars need to have an opportunity to shine in their field of specialization. The challenge for the other NASCAR drivers are to beat them at their game. At some point, NASCAR will have to realize that they need road racing events to shine in their field of specialization. I see it as new challenges rather than shying too far away from oval racing tradition. Never mind that stock cars were not designed to be road racing machines. It's still cool to see them road racing. I actually like the roar of NASCAR engines when they are road racing. Shifting gears, letting the engine hum... it's sweet music. Only not the sweet music Trans-Am and Australian V8 Supercars produce. If NASCAR's going to make an effort to get road racing specialists as well as international stars (Mexico and Canada DO count as international), they at least need to let them shine in their field of specialization without having to see them place poorly in oval races.

I'm still pretty upset with most of the bigotry regarding NASCAR going to Mexico and Canada. I'm actually still surprised NASCAR doesn't race Mosport. CASCAR (or whatever it's called nowadays) suits this series very well at Mosport. Mosport's style suits NASCAR stock cars about as much as NASCAR in Mexico City. I actually raced around the track in Montreal in rFactor with the NSCR deal. I find it tough to realize why NASCAR would take on Montreal (I'm saying Montreal because I don't want to keep mispelling "Circuit de Gilles Villeneue") with the way these stock cars are designed. I mean, I always thought Montreal was a bit like the old Hockenheim, only more technical. I'm not dissing NASCAR on racing in Montreal, but I think Mosport is more suiting to stock cars than Montreal. Maybe some of you Canadian race fans would agree with me on this.

Mexico City's layout greatly suits stock cars. It's mostly flat with some not-too-challenging corners. The track truly suits stock cars even as Formula One had their circuits around Mexico City. If someone were to build a road racing track in the United States that can be the best challenge suitable for stock cars, I'd look into this track for inspiration. I think the Mexican fans enjoy watching NASCAR race outside of America and into Mexico City. They put on a good show like Grand-Am does (even that overplayed fight in Mexico City among two Daytona Prototype drivers). I'd imagine the longevity being pretty good for racing at this track. That is, unless there's some sort of foreign policy meltdown between USA and Mexico that ends up killing NASCAR racing at Mexico City much like the different troubles that has taken away the F1 Grand Prix of South Africa at the (another amazing race track) Kyalaimi Circuit since 1993.

As a fun fact, only two Americans have ever won the South African Grand Prix. The last American to win this now-defunct race was Mario Andretti in 1971 for Ferrari. The other was actually the first winner of the event- Whitney Willard Straight in 1934 racing a Maserati SCM 3.0L. The Wikipedia entry I saw on this kind of questions if Straight actually did win the 1934 South African Grand Prix.

Anyone else want to key in on NASCAR racing outside of the US?

 

[Studentdriver]

Actually, I do remember seeing a CASCAR race on SPEED at Mosport a couple summers ago. It was fairly entertaining.

 

[RACECAR]

Yeah Leguna Seca's Corkscrew would play havoc on the splitters, same thing with sebring.

I wouldn't think so. Check the #84 Red Bull Toyota of Allmendinger:







Doesn't look like it it has too much trouble coming down the corkscrew.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

And with that I say NASCAR needs to run at Leguna Seca!

 

[JohnBM01]

Thing about it is... it COULD be a wreck-fest. I can already imagine guys spinning each other out at the Corkscrew or the Andretti Hairpin trying to win or advance position. That's just one car on the track. Imagine putting 42 more on the track in racing conditions.

 

[RACECAR]

Thing about it is... it COULD be a wreck-fest. I can already imagine guys spinning each other out at the Corkscrew or the Andretti Hairpin trying to win or advance position. That's just one car on the track. Imagine putting 42 more on the track in racing conditions.

But thats happened with almost any series thats gone to that track so it wouldn't be that much different.

 

[matski]

I'd love to see a european NASCAR race.. but only if it was in England!

Go JPM!

 

[JohnBM01]

Well, England does have Rockingham (you know which Rockingham I'm talking about here). I'm not really sure if the oval is used too much anymore because all I ever hear about this track is road racing. Another European alternative would be to race the Lausitzring oval. The Lausitzring (which I initially thought went bankrupt) has a competitive road course in which the DTM put on a great show at. I know the DTM was wondering about racing the oval. To me, no! It's a fun challenge to do an oval, but these cars were made for road racing and not ovals.

I'm thinking of creating a thread on ovals just to talk about other oval tracks. Most other oval tracks not in America are more like road courses than traditional ovals. Look at the oval track in Rio de Janerio that (then) CART used to race. I could still remember watching in 1999 when Juan Pablo Montoya won three in a row heading into Rio de Janerio. It was at this point that I got to love Juan Pablo Montoya. He ended up winning the race. You then have ovals like Lausitzring, Rockingham (in England), Phakisa Freeway (South Africa), and Twin Ring Motegi's Superspeedway among others. Most of these international ovals are more like road courses the way they are designed. The Lausitzring is the only traditional oval I've seen in which there is grass on both the outside and inside of the straights. It's basically a road course that thinks it's an oval. I'm not sure if the grass is still there like the Champ Car race I remember (also the terrible crash that cost Alessandro Zanardi both of his legs) way back when, but it's better known for its road course than the oval. I like considering these as "driver's ovals" because some of these aren't really like the traditional ovals here in America. Only track up there with these international ovals as far as "road racing ovals" go is Pocono (maybe Darlington as well, but especially Pocono).

 

[RACECAR]

Kevin Lepage is an idiot. He comes right in front of the pack as he is coming out of pit lane and not only does he get hit, but also takes alot of cars out too. And then has the nerve to say something like "those other 42 spoters need to be spotting someone else". I'm infuriated right now. Those cars had great runs and this idiot ruins their day.

 

[toyota_gt1]

Kevin didn't even need a spotter for that. All he had to do was look in his mirror and see 25 cars haulin' ass towards him. But he didn't have enough sense to stay on the apron.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

Kevin Really picked the wrong day to have a big mistake, he took out alot of people who were running great.

 

[TS]

NASCAR should make the blend lines more clear not only on the track, but also do a better job of telling drivers where they specifically are and the penalties for failing to blend in properly.

There was some confusion or a misunderstanding on Lepage's incident, because he said in the interview that his team told him the blend line was at the entry of turn 1, and he followed what he said, but even though he was given false information, he should've at least known that there was no way he was gonna be able to get up to speed fast enough to not only get in front of the pack, let alone doing it without causing an accident.

I thought the accident was quite scary, I actually had to turn away from when the first replay was shown.

 

[TwinTurbos94]

yeah, I'm surprised no one got hurt. Even Carl Edwards was amazed he didn't a rollbar through the floor panel.


I heard Franchitti Broke his ankle during his wreck yesterday. I pray for his speedy recovery.

 

[mustangGT90210]

I can't stand the COT. It made the Bristol race boring, therefore it sucks HORRIBLY!

 

[toyota_gt1]

I can't stand the COT. It made the Bristol race boring, therefore it sucks HORRIBLY!

No, you can thank progressive banking for the boring part. The COT makes the intermediate tracks such as Atlanta and Charlotte boring.

 

[redsoxfan]

No, you can thank progressive banking for the boring part. The COT makes the intermediate tracks such as Atlanta and Charlotte boring.

I'd have to agree with that. But the last 60 laps today at talladega was some of the best racing I've ever seen. The COT seems more stable which let them run so close to each other for while before they crashed. With the old car, I doubt they would have lasted 5 laps with the intensity they had today. I think it was Jamie McMurray who made that incredible save which would have never been possible without the huge wing they have on the COT.

 

[JohnBM01]

Congrats to Kyle Busch. Just remember that if he makes the Chase for the Cup, he's going to have to keep winning if he wants to get himself a title and Toyota their first manufacturer's title in Cup. My debate question was going to be if Jeff Gordon will make the Chase for the Cup, but I'd like to ask another question...



John's Debate! - Enough Already!?
I try to be non-biased at times. It's already a fact that the All-Star race will be on Speed May 17th. I couldn't care less about seeing it because I'll be getting my Associate's in the Arts on May 17th. I heard of a new Burnout Contest for the All-Star event. But really... are you okay with Speed Channel continually marketing and hyping the All-Star Race? Is it worth hyping up? Why do you think such a big deal is made out of this event?


Go for it!