NASCAR Thread.

[Jim Prower]

Why is such a big deal made? \

1: NASCAR...err, SPEED Channel, now devoted mostly to NASCAR and motorcycles, has nothing better to do.
2: It's probably partially the race its self: No points, just a big purse (which I'm not sure matters anymore,) and Bragging rights (Which ALWAYS matters) At stake. So the mentality is "Checkers or Wreckers." Drivers go all-out, and inevitably, exciting things happen. (Know which race the "Pass in the Grass" happened in?) It's also run differently, and all the action means money for the sponsors.
3: It's all about marketing. This race gives big turnouts, and big ratings. Thus, why not try and maximize your profits? Special paint jobs make the die-cast industry happier, events tied in help maximize advertising time...SPEED themselves are gonna make a big stink about it because they want to sell as much ad time and broadcast sponsorship as they can. They know they've got a hot ticket.

 

[matski]

Juan Pablo Montoya makes the chase!!! Woo-hoo

 

[TS]

I heard Franchitti Broke his ankle during his wreck yesterday. I pray for his speedy recovery.

Any word on who will fill in for him at Richmond?

I heard Sterling Marlin will reunite with his old #40 Ganassi team and will run Darlington.

No, you can thank progressive banking for the boring part. The COT makes the intermediate tracks such as Atlanta and Charlotte boring.

The setups on the COT at intermediate tracks are a cause for boring races, the teams are running the cars against the rubber shock stops which is causing the drivers to constantly complain about handling, I like what DW has said about that; 'take away them bump rubbers and throw some spring under the car and let those boys drive!'

John's Debate! - Enough Already!?
I try to be non-biased at times. It's already a fact that the All-Star race will be on Speed May 17th. I couldn't care less about seeing it because I'll be getting my Associate's in the Arts on May 17th. I heard of a new Burnout Contest for the All-Star event. But really... are you okay with Speed Channel continually marketing and hyping the All-Star Race? Is it worth hyping up? Why do you think such a big deal is made out of this event?


Go for it!

I think the race itself deserves the hype, but the other side events like the burnout challenge, pit crew competition and even the Sprint Open race (last chance qualifier for the All Star race) don't deserve as much hype as they're getting.

And IMO, FOX should have coverage of the race, if they would really like the ratings to increase.

 

[WallRunner]

Wow, I fell out of this thread a little bit, partly because I have church on sunday afternoons and haven't seen a single race this year :-\ Well, anyway, thanks for keeping this thread full of information, and I look forward to this summer when I can watch a little bit of racing.

From,
Chris.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here's some logical thinking to help explain my point that I'm about to make:

* If a car company can design a car that seats two people and protect them behind the wheel, then they can be able to create a car that can seat four or more and offer the same level of protection as the two-door car.
* If a person can be trained to ride a bicycle and ride one successfully, then he/she can be trained to ride a motorcycle successfully.
* If a major retail chain is able to offer clothing, then it may also be able to venture into retailing other consumer goods as a one-stop-shop for consumers.


So what am I getting at? It's this:

If Speed Channel can make so much effort to market an All-Star race, then it could do the same for much more bigger (and much more important) races. Why count down an All-Star race when they COULD be counting down the 24 Hours of Le Mans? Why sponsor a race series when you don't market it all that much (Speed World Challenge)? I think it's down to priorities. People thought Speedvision was going to Hell (and I'm NOT talking about Hell, Michigan) when NASCAR invaded. It was a good deal as the USAR Hooter's (Hooter's = overrated) Pro Cup series while having a show talking about NASCAR each weeknight. But when NASCAR became the focal point of most of the programming featured, Speedvision went to Hell, spawning Speed Channel in all of its NASCAR goodness. Good if you're a NASCAR fan, but tiresome if you enjoy other kinds of racing no matter how much NASCAR is marketed. I'll grant you (Jim Prower) that the race could have been shown on FOX rather than give non-Speed viewers reason to order Speed Channel (for reasons other than NASCAR). To me, this is all about priorities. I don't see the NFL hogging the air waves counting down to the Pro Bowl. I don't see Major League Baseball hog the airwaves about the All-Star Game. I don't see the PGA Tour counting down and hyping whatever All-Star games they have. So why NASCAR and why this much hype? If anything, I'd rather count down to any of these events rather than a silly All-Star race:

* Daytona 500 (they did count down, and I was okay with it)
* Coca-Cola/The World 600 (do some people still call it The World 600?)
* Pepsi Southern 400
* Brickyard 400
* The Chase for the Cup

So you mean to tell me that we should care more about the All-Star race than any of the 36 other races (including the Daytona events)? Just bad marketing by Speed. Someone needs to set them straight on overhyping this deal.

 

[TS]

Here's some logical thinking to help explain my point that I'm about to make:

* If a car company can design a car that seats two people and protect them behind the wheel, then they can be able to create a car that can seat four or more and offer the same level of protection as the two-door car.
* If a person can be trained to ride a bicycle and ride one successfully, then he/she can be trained to ride a motorcycle successfully.
* If a major retail chain is able to offer clothing, then it may also be able to venture into retailing other consumer goods as a one-stop-shop for consumers.


So what am I getting at? It's this:

If Speed Channel can make so much effort to market an All-Star race, then it could do the same for much more bigger (and much more important) races. Why count down an All-Star race when they COULD be counting down the 24 Hours of Le Mans? Why sponsor a race series when you don't market it all that much (Speed World Challenge)? I think it's down to priorities. People thought Speedvision was going to Hell (and I'm NOT talking about Hell, Michigan) when NASCAR invaded. It was a good deal as the USAR Hooter's (Hooter's = overrated) Pro Cup series while having a show talking about NASCAR each weeknight. But when NASCAR became the focal point of most of the programming featured, Speedvision went to Hell, spawning Speed Channel in all of its NASCAR goodness. Good if you're a NASCAR fan, but tiresome if you enjoy other kinds of racing no matter how much NASCAR is marketed. I'll grant you (Jim Prower) that the race could have been shown on FOX rather than give non-Speed viewers reason to order Speed Channel (for reasons other than NASCAR). To me, this is all about priorities. I don't see the NFL hogging the air waves counting down to the Pro Bowl. I don't see Major League Baseball hog the airwaves about the All-Star Game. I don't see the PGA Tour counting down and hyping whatever All-Star games they have. So why NASCAR and why this much hype? If anything, I'd rather count down to any of these events rather than a silly All-Star race:

* Daytona 500 (they did count down, and I was okay with it)
* Coca-Cola/The World 600 (do some people still call it The World 600?)
* Pepsi Southern 400
* Brickyard 400
* The Chase for the Cup

So you mean to tell me that we should care more about the All-Star race than any of the 36 other races (including the Daytona events)? Just bad marketing by Speed. Someone needs to set them straight on overhyping this deal.

*agrees* 👍

 

[JohnBM01]

John's Debate! - Bigger Heartbreak?
Who do you feel sorrier for not winning this race- Dale Earnhardt Jr. (leading late) or Denny Hamlin (led lots of laps)?


Also, do you think Kurt Busch's hit on Dale Jr. was intentional or unintentional? By the way, it's great Jeff Gordon posted a 9th Place finish. I think he's playing the Chase pretty well. It's not about leading the points. It's about making sure you're in the Top 12 come Chase time. A few more solid finishes, and he should be back in the Top 12. It is then his ability to step up when it matters most.

 

[TS]

Hamlin the hometown hero not winning Richmond > Dale Jr.'s losing streak

Kyle Busch was just racing Junior for the lead, I saw nothing wrong with it, Jr. nation seriously needs to quit whining about it. He'll win sometime this year, Saturday wasn't his night, it's as simple as that.

 

[Metar]

John's Debate! - Bigger Heartbreak?
Who do you feel sorrier for not winning this race- Dale Earnhardt Jr. (leading late) or Denny Hamlin (led lots of laps)?

Hamlin losing it after leading some 380 laps, at home, definitely gets my sentiments. However, he won the Nationwide race thanks to the late stop me made, slicing through the field on the fresh tyres - so I guess that made up for something?

 

[JohnBM01]

Do some of you fear that Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s winless streak is starting to feel like the winless streak Danica Patrick had until she eventually won? I know Dale Jr. has won games even well before Danica Patrick won her first (and only so far) race. But do you think people are going to be like "when will you win a race, Dale Jr.?"

[UPDATE] Also, anyone care to specualte on this weekend's Darlington action?

 

[Jim Prower]

He'll probably end up winning the championship when we decide to shift our attention to someone else...

That's kind of the way it works, it seems.

Oh, Darlington's coming up! YAY! DARLINGTON STRIPEZ!!!

Sorry. I love that old track.

 

[JohnBM01]

A good story from last weekend was ARCA racing at Rockingham (in North Carolina). Joey Lagano (told to be the next best thing in stock car racing) won the race as Rockingham had its first stock car action in four years last weekend. I'm sure NASCAR fans would love to see NASCAR return to Rockingham. Either that, or generate some money to rebuild North Wilkesboro so that the younger generation can know what racing at North Wilkesboro was like before the track went defunct.

 

[TS]

I watched the Nationwide practice from Darlington today, the cars are about 10 MPH faster than before, but they're still running right up against that wall, and they're still getting those Darlington Stripes. <3

 

[JohnBM01]

Let this be said... Darlington is NOT an easy place. When your track is nicknamed "The Lady in Black," you know you're in for some trouble on race day. The lady in black here isn't some hot college girl in her early twenties with a girl-next-door attitude. Instead, she's more like a lady in a black dress... ready to strike fear into your heart as you race Darlington. She ain't no darling when 43 stock cars take on this track. It used to be that this track was a great daytime venue. Nowadays, Darlington is raced at night. When I used to play "NASCAR Racing" for the PC (the 1994 game), I had a utility that could one could paint up the background. What I chose was a scheme that featured night racing. I'm not sure if I used a nighttime color scheme, but I envisioned night racing at Darlington even before NASCAR started racing Darlington at night. After this race, it's some special event next Saturday (sarcasm) followed by the Coca-Cola/The World 600, an event I call NASCAR's version of the 24 Hours of Le Mans due to the fact it's the longest race on the schedule.

Continue speculation or answer some of my debate questions.

 

[Solid Fro]

Hmmm, Kyle Busch got what was coming for him in the Nationwide race...

karma.

 

[Earth]

I'm really looking forward to tonight's race, saturday night, darlington, and a new unpredictable surface

 

[TS]

Wasn't a big a wreck fest as everyone had thought, only 6 cautions I believe, and 41 cars still running at the end. Another win for Rowdy Busch.

 

[RVDNuT374]

Does anyone else agree with me that Dale Jr. is turning into a crybaby just like his Hendrick teammates, most notably Jimmie Johnson? In his interview after the Darlington race, he was whining because he finished 4th and his car wasn't "fast" enough. If Jr. would've tried to drive harder, he might have been a contender for the win. My personal opinion is this: All of Jr.'s fans were his dad's fans. If Earnhardt Sr. didn't pass away, Jr. would have no fans of his own. He just got lucky getting all of his dad's fans after Dale died on that tragic day in Feb. 2001.

BTW: Kyle Busch is more like Earnhardt Sr. in his early days than his son will ever be.

 

[toyota_gt1]

Drive harder? He finished 4th because he was smart enough to know what would happen if he drove too hard. He didn't have a good enough car. NASCAR needs to put some of these bad mouthers in a car, put them on the track and let them understand what happens when you drive too hard.

My god.

 

[JohnBM01]

Jeff Gordon and Carl Edwards had wonderful finishes from Darlington. Jeff Gordon even raced his way back(?) into the Chase for the Cup by gaining three positions in the championship standings. I have another editorial to type up on here.



John-itorial: Get Rid of the "Go or Go Home" Deal!
Forty-three drivers will start for the race. The top 35 will be locked into the show. Basically, the "Go or Go Home" cars are those not fast enough to be on the track with the other stars, so they have to qualify on time. What this equates to is a situation in which the uncompetitive get edged out. They can still race, but have to EARN their way to the big show. It is almost as if NASCAR's trying to "shield" their Top 35 big names from relegation. Almost as if the Top 35 are like automatic bids for March Madness in the NCAA while those south of Position #35 are all the mid-majors and low-majors trying to spoil the show. I think if NASCAR's going to have some Top 35 rule, why not make the number of starting cars as 35 and just say "too bad" to those 36-43? There should be only a few criteria for not making a race including (but not limited to)...

* being too slow
* withdraw entry
* injury to a driver with no backup car or backup driver

...yet still, trying to make the Top 43 now comes down to trying to be a winning driver. It's a competitive edge to keep the hopes of drivers alive for the championship. However, who's to say that these drives 36-43 in points will never be competitive and never be in races? Do you think Formula One would disallow racers like David Coulthard from the F1 grid at races? Do you think last year's Honda F1 team would be disallowed for being too slow? Then why NASCAR?

People put so much effort into making races. Just the fact that there is such a measure as this "Go or Go Home" deal is really a sad deal. Some of these drivers are just trying to make races and show they belong. So even if Dale Earnhardt Jr. doesn't make the Top 43 (he'd probably have many Provisionals to use), it's really a great injustice to teams who aren't fast enough have to end up packing up and going. It's about the 43 best qualifiers, not this kind of package NASCAR has in which there is some kind of phobia of not having the Top 35 get relegated to lower positions or have to put up with lower-ranked drivers. They are just trying to make the show as best as they can. Sadly, they nowadays just have to make the show by knocking other non-Top 35 drivers. Imagine being that 43rd-qualified driver until the very last "Go or Go Home" driver knocks you out of the weekend's race. Wouldn't you be pissed off and saddened that you didn't make the cut? This is racing, not golf. You can miss the cut by having a score higher than the cutoff point in golf (for example, having a score of +7 when the cutoff point is +3). But that system doesn't work for racers just trying to make the race. NASCAR, repeal this IMMEDIATELY!!!




John's Debate! An Encore Presentation and Kurt Busch?
1.) There are 36 races in the Sprint Cup series. Darlington used to be a two-race event. What race event on the calendar would you trade for stock cars to return to Darlington for a second race in the season?

2.) I've always called Kurt Busch a punk for his actions on the track. However, he's been doing impressive in the point standings so far. So assuming that he is in contention for the top three touring series (Sprint, Nationwide, Trucks), how many overall championships do you think he will win at season's end?





If you sell out to ANYTHING NASCAR, then the next race is the overhyped All-Star Race. Or if you're a real racing fan, you can just tune over to the Coca-Cola 600 after enjoying the Indy 500. In any event, the NASCAR action comes home to Charlotte.

 

[RACECAR]

To be quite honest, I hate the entire system. Why does it only have to be 43 cars every week? Why does there have to be only 35 owners in points? I hate the fact that teams like the wood brothers have to race into the race when it doesn't even have to be that way. They should just get rid of it plain and simple and have Everyone qualify in the race with no pressure and no problems. I don't see any other series where this BS takes place and quite frankly, its sickening to see those teams pour all their money into it only to be kicked out of "the Show". Its pathetic and needs to be gone.

 

[RVDNuT374]

Drive harder? He finished 4th because he was smart enough to know what would happen if he drove too hard. He didn't have a good enough car. NASCAR needs to put some of these bad mouthers in a car, put them on the track and let them understand what happens when you drive too hard.

My god.

I can obviously tell you're a Dale Jr. fan. His car was actually good enough to challenge Kyle Busch for the win, but he didn't have the balls to push the car that extra bit. Brushing the wall in the COT is not the end of the world like it was in the old car. Kyle Busch brushed the wall at least 3 times but still won the race. I hate to say this to "Junior Nation", but he will probably never win a championship unless Nascar fixes the Chase races, providing he even makes the top 12 after Richmond. I just wish Junior fans would open their eyes and see the truth.

 

[TS]

I think with less and less cars showing up every week, it'll pretty much start to come down to whoever shows up will race on Sunday and it'll pretty much force NASCAR to get rid of the top-35 rule.

John's Debate! An Encore Presentation and Kyle Busch
1.) There are 36 races in the Sprint Cup series. Darlington used to be a two-race event. What race event on the calendar would you trade for stock cars to return to Darlington for a second race in the season?

Trade one of the California races for a 2nd race at Darlington or a race at Rockingham please.

2.) I've always called Kyle Busch a punk for his actions on the track. However, he's been doing impressive in the point standings so far. So assuming that he is in contention for the top three touring series (Sprint, Nationwide, Trucks), how many overall championships do you think he will win at season's end?

I think he'll commit to running the full Nationwide schedule, he has a car that he can finish in the top-5 easily every week, regardless if it's the 18 or 20 JGR cars or the 10 or 32 Braun Toyota's.

I think he can be a contender for the Cup championship, but he has to finish in the top-5 and top-10 every week, and with his 'win or GTFO' attitude, that may keep him from winning the title, but it sure as hell will be fun to watch though.

 

[RACECAR]

I can obviously tell you're a Dale Jr. fan. His car was actually good enough to challenge Kyle Busch for the win, but he didn't have the balls to push the car that extra bit. Brushing the wall in the COT is not the end of the world like it was in the old car. Kyle Busch brushed the wall at least 3 times but still won the race.

He didn't have the balls to push that extra bit because, as was already stated, his car wasn't good enough? Any experienced driver in any series would know If your car is not a good enough to make up time on the leader, its more logical to just bring it home in one piece and salvage a good finish rather then go head-on into the wall because you wanted to go for the win with a car thats not obviously up to snuff. Obviously, Kyle's car was the best and that allowed him to do what he did and still win.

I hate to say this to "Junior Nation", but he will probably never win a championship unless Nascar fixes the Chase races, providing he even makes the top 12 after Richmond. I just wish Junior fans would open their eyes and see the truth.

It bugs the living hell out of me when people comments like that about some drivers and this just takes the cake. You are basically saying that he is not capable enough to win a championship on his own, which is complete BS because he's done it before. Jr's not new to winning championships and now that he has a much more competitive ride along with his consistant finishes majorily in the top ten, he's in a good position for the chase and possibly a championship without assistance.

I just wish Junior fans would open their eyes and see the truth

What exactly is that truth? You seem to make it out like every Jr. fan is stupid as hell and even ignorantly state without knowing everyone that All of his fans are his dad's fans. How do you know this? I know I wasn't even aware of a Nascar until 2002. I wasn't aware of a Earnhardt Sr or Earnhardt Jr. until 2002 so I find your statement hard to believe.

 

[Metar]

Do you think Formula One would disallow racers like David Coulthard from the F1 grid at races? Do you think last year's Honda F1 team would be disallowed for being too slow? Then why NASCAR?

Such a rule exists in Formula one, however, the grid isn't large enough, or slow enough, for it to be used. Formula 1 regulations state that a car over 107% behind the fastest time may not start a Grand Prix. So yes, if Coulthard and Honda were genuinely slow, the wouldn't be allowed to race.

Also, when grid-sizes were bigger than 13 teams, pre-qualifying would determine who gets to qualify and race, and who can't - top 26 get in, the rest are out. Up until the '90s, many small privateers would attempt to qualify - and many would fail. At the the time, 26 cars were allowed to race (sometimes less, like the early Monaco races), while over 30 would attempt to enter.

Coulthard isn't that much slower behind teammate Webber, and Honda's slowness last season was only in proportion to their budget - they were very slow compared to similar teams, and were outpaced by minnows such as Super Aguri at the start of the season, and Spyker at the Hungaroring - but they were never "epically slow" like the '90s privateers, who were often several seconds off the pace, and were sometimes a disgrace to the sport, not even trying to be competitive.

 

[Appie]

Such a rule exists in Formula one, however, the grid isn't large enough, or slow enough, for it to be used. Formula 1 regulations state that a car over 107% behind the fastest time may not start a Grand Prix. So yes, if Coulthard and Honda were genuinely slow, the wouldn't be allowed to race.

Also, when grid-sizes were bigger than 13 teams, pre-qualifying would determine who gets to qualify and race, and who can't - top 26 get in, the rest are out. Up until the '90s, many small privateers would attempt to qualify - and many would fail. At the the time, 26 cars were allowed to race (sometimes less, like the early Monaco races), while over 30 would attempt to enter.

Coulthard isn't that much slower behind teammate Webber, and Honda's slowness last season was only in proportion to their budget - they were very slow compared to similar teams, and were outpaced by minnows such as Super Aguri at the start of the season, and Spyker at the Hungaroring - but they were never "epically slow" like the '90s privateers, who were often several seconds off the pace, and were sometimes a disgrace to the sport, not even trying to be competitive.

The 107% was gone a long time cuz of the new qualifying format and as you stated before, there aren't enough drivers to exclude them from a race.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here is a rumor: Kyle Busch going to Japan way later this year... to drive a Toyota F1 car! I keep saying he's a punk. So I want you all to finish the following sentence:

If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, then Formula One would be...


And here's my input: If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, then Formula One would be... ...scarred for life! He'd have to learn that tagging fenders is not going to happen in F1. He'll probably crash out 1/4 to 1/2 the field.

 

[TS]

Here is a rumor: Kyle Busch going to Japan way later this year... to drive a Toyota F1 car! I keep saying he's a punk. So I want you all to finish the following sentence:

If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, then Formula One would be...


And here's my input: If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, then Formula One would be... ...scarred for life! He'd have to learn that tagging fenders is not going to happen in F1. He'll probably crash out 1/4 to 1/2 the field.

If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, Formula One fans in the US would get the competitive American driver they've always wanted.

 

[Metar]

If Kyle Busch went from NASCAR to Formula One, then Formula One would be... slightly more crowded. There are already about 10-15 drivers who spend their days waiting - and frankly, I can't see this as anything more than publicity.


And John, you'd be surprised how much most F1 fans await a "punk", as you described him. Juan Pablo Montoya was one of those - never lost an opportunity to fight for a position. Fans loved it.

 

[Earth]

What is the average span of time a driver spends in Formula 1? 2-3 years?

Odds are Kyle Busch won't do well in Formula 1 or in the practices, like Metar said there is two dozen drivers who have been driving openwheel cars all their life to try and get a shot at F1.

Formula 1 isn't like NASCAR where you can come in and stink up the show for 2 or 3 years until you get it.

One bad year, or even one bad race in Scott Speed's case, and you're out of F1.

Once the Indycar series gets turned around and they stop losing top American talent to NASCAR you will eventually see a competitive F1 driver come from there, not NASCAR.