Need For Speed Heat - General Discussion

[T0MMY3688]

The female cop in of the first cutscenes rides a bike, which made me hope for it. I would enjoy bikes, but I hope that at least these will get a cockpit camera.

It might be a cut content or upcoming DLC. Based on the codes in the screenshot, it mention customisation category like handlebars, seats and fuel tank, it looks to be planned as a playable vehicle.

 

[rallymorten]

"X did this before and Y did it years later, Y has zero innovation"

Take a step back for a second. Look at Payback. Then look at Paradise. Then look at Payback again. Tell me there isn't a point to be made.

Like I said, if thing = popular, then make your version of it. But make it feel yours. That's not really happened yet, and it certainly wasn't helped by just how many beats were quickly copied over for Payback.

What other new things can they bring in at this point that isn't done by themselves or someone?

..I think we've missed something here. I'm not (necessarily) asking for them to revolutionise the genre with each new release - as fantastic as that would be, that's just not how it works. Even I know that much. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of things they've done can be traced directly back to another recent-enough-to-still-be-revered game - and they've done the laziest possible job of including those features. Sure, learning-by-doing is a thing, but if it's something that's already been done a million times before, it shouldn't feel like we're starting from square one all the time. And that's what it's felt like for the last few years. I know "they're new" and all, but come on, that's not going to last forever.

Ghost decided to turn their calendar back 10 years to reboot NFS Underground makes sense, considering Midnight Club has been dead for years at that time and the racing market have a illegal street racing theme spot for them to fill up.

NFS as a franchise started out as a Test Drive clone when that franchise took a break in the early-mid 90's

the last Dirt with an interesting idea was Dirt 4 but wasn't well received by the fans and Grid 2 itself and the live track has a whole lot of hate at the time of its release

Not all experiments are successes, no - and they're not supposed to be, either because of their implementation or because people are inherently conservative. It'd just be nice if, every once in a while, there came a thing that made people go "wow, I never thought I'd see that in this sort of game". Rivals' risk/reward systems comes to mind. That was an interesting idea, and as far as I recall, there's nothing all that similar to it. Aside from Heat, of course.

Then, of course, there's the concept of having "lives" during the night. Lives aren't exactly new, no. But I can still find the inclusion "interesting" without it being strictly "innovation", which is sort-of where I'm at with bikes. It's "interesting" (in an it's-still-pre-release kind of way), but not "innovation".

If you are going to take a concept others have done before you, either do something interesting with it or do it better than the competition. They've learnt lessons for you. Read them.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Take a step back for a second. Look at Payback. Then look at Paradise. Then look at Payback again. Tell me there isn't a point to be made.

Like I said, if thing = popular, then make your version of it. But make it feel yours. That's not really happened yet, and it certainly wasn't helped by just how many beats were quickly copied over for Payback.

..I think we've missed something here. I'm not (necessarily) asking for them to revolutionise the genre with each new release - as fantastic as that would be, that's just not how it works. Even I know that much. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of things they've done can be traced directly back to another recent-enough-to-still-be-revered game - and they've done the laziest possible job of including those features. Sure, learning-by-doing is a thing, but if it's something that's already been done a million times before, it shouldn't feel like we're starting from square one all the time. And that's what it's felt like for the last few years. I know "they're new" and all, but come on, that's not going to last forever.

Considering Ghost is made up of mostly Criterion Games, it is more of them just putting in what they have done before. Just 2 posts ago you said Payback being more of a Carbon clone, a few jumps and speed zone is pretty far off to be Burnout Paradise. Also a side objective don’t make the game, Payback has a lot more issue and bits of Burnout Paradise are probably not even on the list of issues.

Other than the obvious bits from Burnout Paradise/NFS MW2012, what other stuff they copied? Car classes from The Crew or Pro Street? Having a "barn find"? Collectibles in Heat is definitely a idea copy from other games but that is a really small thing that barely do anything for gameplay. Those are pretty small part of the game that no one really cares about it.

I wouldn’t say they are “new”, 3 games shipped is pretty far from new but them being lost on whichever direction to take the franchise is probably a bigger issue. Hopefully they can stick with an idea and expand it this time, last 3 games felt like some sort of reboot on its own.

Not all experiments are successes, no - and they're not supposed to be, either because of their implementation or because people are inherently conservative. It'd just be nice if, every once in a while, there came a thing that made people go "wow, I never thought I'd see that in this sort of game". Rivals' risk/reward systems comes to mind. That was an interesting idea, and as far as I recall, there's nothing all that similar to it. Aside from Heat, of course.

And what games did that recently? Other than Onrush attempt to be Overwatch on wheels, the other racing games doesn’t do anything that "wow, I never thought I'd see that in this sort of game".

Dirt Rally 2 bringing in ground degradation makes sense for their chase for realism, WRC 8 bringing dynamic weather to spice things up but those are still not something that out of the box that no one could thought about the idea. Even Forza Horizon 4 seasons looks more like a logical step after the Blizzard Mountain DLC in the previous game.

Then, of course, there's the concept of having "lives" during the night. Lives aren't exactly new, no. But I can still find the inclusion "interesting" without it being strictly "innovation", which is sort-of where I'm at with bikes. It's "interesting" (in an it's-still-pre-release kind of way), but not "innovation".

If you are going to take a concept others have done before you, either do something interesting with it or do it better than the competition. They've learnt lessons for you. Read them.

The whole “lives” thing is more of a exploit fix from Rivals, in Rivals you could just run around the repair shop in a small loop to easily grind rep. Less fun but it sure progress the game a lot faster.

I don’t think a bike content was even considered “innovative” by anyone, it is just surprising to see it exist in files and no one knows is it a DLC or just a cut content. I don’t get why are you keep referring it like everyone is treating it like the next big innovation while majority outright hate it or just acknowledge the possibility of bikes in a NFS.

The past 2 games has been mostly on Ghost trying to get what the majority of the fans wants, at least they got the main point right like cops, keeping car customisation (still need way more parts) and more improvement to vehicle handling this time. Considering we don't even have a game that has any focus on cops since 2013, NFS did alright for standing out on itself.

 

[rallymorten]

Just 2 posts ago you said Payback being more of a Carbon clone

I see someone hasn't clicked the link.

Payback is a Carbon clone in terms of the setting and the overall "story". Sure, they've gender-flipped a few characters and changed some of the finer details, but it's still extremely Carbon. Much like all the cheap F&F-knockoffs from the mid-late 2000s are extremely F&F.

All gameplay that doesn't involve customisation, however, is taken from Burnout Paradise. Which, normally, I'd be fine with, if they either did something creative with it or at least was on the same level of quality.

It just isn't. And that's one of the many issues with Ghosts output.

I wouldn’t say they are “new”, 3 games shipped is pretty far from new

Exactly. My. Point.

There's the argument that

Ghost is made up of mostly Criterion Games

(meaning they should have some idea of what they're doing) and the argument that they've been developing these games for what, seven years including development time for Rivals? Going on for ten if we include Criterion? 15 if we consider the people left over from Black Box? Yeah, apparently that's a thing.

Ghost aren't new. They aren't new to game making. And by now, they shouldn't be new as a team. They should have things more sorted than the last few years imply they have.

And what games did that recently? Other than Onrush attempt to be Overwatch on wheels, the other racing games doesn’t do anything that "wow, I never thought I'd see that in this sort of game".

Right, I'll make as non-convoluted a response as I can:

If you can't make something new, at least make what you have "good" and "yours".

The issue is unchanged.

Even Forza Horizon 4 seasons looks more like a logical step after the Blizzard Mountain DLC in the previous game.

Ironically, I'd argue that's a good case of "take an idea and do something interesting with it". Make the entire map change seasons every week, because why not? Have the way people interact with the environment change on a weekly basis. Why didn't anyone think of that before?


Ghost have taken plenty of ideas elsewhere. But they haven't really done anything with them, nevermind something creative. They haven't done a lot of "new" things either. And anything they have made hasn't, for whatever reason, been "good".

All of this is why I keep banging on about a no-strings-attached demo before launch: to not just tell (which they're really good at), but show people that they've sorted their 🤬 out.

 

[Ameer67]

Looks like the bikes ain't happening.

 

[MIE1992]

Interesting, so it seems like bikes were more of an element that was discussed but ultimately scrapped. Seems like a good idea to focus on cars - adding bikes could've resulted in Ghost spreading themselves too thin.

 

[LOonIE]

How unfortunate, now I miss bikes in Heat, which I didn't a day ago.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

After watching more gameplay footage, I’ve decided to give Heat a chance. The new performance upgrades system really caught my attention. I like that you can upgrade a car specifically for a certain style of driving.

I’ll be getting the Deluxe Edition and thanks to the discount from both owning Payback and having EA Access, it’s only $55. Really, I’m just so bored of Forza Horizon 4 now and need something different, so Heat with its cop chases should give me more excitement.

 

[Sage Ages]

Looks like the bikes ain't happening.

Not sure I’m buying this. You don’t exactly license and model four entire bikes for an “experiment”.

 

[FoRiZon]

Not sure I’m buying this. You don’t exactly license and model four entire bikes for an “experiment”.

I doubt they even licensed in the first place, thus the deprecated status.

Remember the deprecated Porsche 911 and Lamborghini GT2 in Gran Turismo 3? The logic is the same here.

 

[Ameer67]

Not sure I’m buying this. You don’t exactly license and model four entire bikes for an “experiment”.

Like @FoRiZon is saying, is it even necessary to license before modeling and experimenting with them?

 

[T0MMY3688]

I see someone hasn't clicked the link.

Payback is a Carbon clone in terms of the setting and the overall "story". Sure, they've gender-flipped a few characters and changed some of the finer details, but it's still extremely Carbon. Much like all the cheap F&F-knockoffs from the mid-late 2000s are extremely F&F.

They pretty said that was their aim for it before the release of the game. Considering both games having 10 years apart and not a single recent game that did anything similar to it, I don’t really see it as a problem.

You can say it is an attempt to copy The Crew 1 too but no one remembers that game for its story and how much worse it did that part too.

All gameplay that doesn't involve customisation, however, is taken from Burnout Paradise. Which, normally, I'd be fine with, if they either did something creative with it or at least was on the same level of quality.

It just isn't. And that's one of the many issues with Ghosts output.

In what way? Most of the gameplay is just standard racing that we saw in NFS 2015 with more drag racing and have most of drift events type cut. Burnout Paradise has all its races just racing from 1 point to the other without predetermined route but always end up running on mostly the same fastest route. The game mode that is closest to Burnout Paradise will be the Marksman event, which is quite similar to bait crate in Payback. They even got rid of the crash cams that screams “Burnout” which were present in HP2010 and MW2012.

(meaning they should have some idea of what they're doing) and the argument that they've been developing these games for what, seven years including development time for Rivals? Going on for ten if we include Criterion? 15 if we consider the people left over from Black Box? Yeah, apparently that's a thing.

Ghost aren't new. They aren't new to game making. And by now, they shouldn't be new as a team. They should have things more sorted than the last few years imply they have.

No one is saying they are new here, especially not me but like I said in the previous post they are more of a team that are clueless on what they want NFS to be.

Right, I'll make as non-convoluted a response as I can:

If you can't make something new, at least make what you have "good" and "yours".

The issue is unchanged.

Which what they are trying to do at this attempt, taking what’s good in the past 3 games and try improve it and make it work. The last 3 games has significant difference in gameplay and progression like they are rebooting the franchise.

Ironically, I'd argue that's a good case of "take an idea and do something interesting with it". Make the entire map change seasons every week, because why not? Have the way people interact with the environment change on a weekly basis. Why didn't anyone think of that before?

It sounds good on paper until I played it, the only season that really changes how you play it was winter. While the other 3 is just a variation of less rain or more rain, it is some what expected to be next step after Blizzard Mountain. FH2 has Storm Island which focused on crazier off road events and we got better off road events in FH3. They are going to reuse the snow tech some way for FH4, it is either a bigger map or a changeable season on a same size map.

Ghost have taken plenty of ideas elsewhere. But they haven't really done anything with them, nevermind something creative. They haven't done a lot of "new" things either. And anything they have made hasn't, for whatever reason, been "good".

What other bits that are not Burnout Paradise has they taken though?

I know the wrap editor is similar to what we had in NFS 10 years ago and lacks all of the newer features seen in Forza or even The Crew 2, the sharing system that they patched in NFS2015 is rubbish and they haven’t bother to update it too.

All of this is why I keep banging on about a no-strings-attached demo before launch: to not just tell (which they're really good at), but show people that they've sorted their 🤬 out.

You can pretty much pin this on any game today. Most games just don’t do demo.

I know Gran Turismo Sport has a time limited demo, Gravel from Milestone has a demo. Forza always have a demo, Onrush has 2 public beta that works like a demo. Project CARS has a demo but it was available months after released. The rest of the games like Dirt, Grid, WRC8, Wreckfest, GRIP, and Assetto Corsa didn’t bother to do a demo.

Most of the devs on Steam pretty much rely on the 2 hours play time limit and refund as demo, Origin has a similar system where you can refund the game with no questions asked 24 hours after you started the game.

Not sure I’m buying this. You don’t exactly license and model four entire bikes for an “experiment”.

Probably it is something they plan to do but couldn’t get it to work the way they want and decided to cut it. It won’t be surprising if they manage to get it working and added in for the next game or DLC in Heat.

 

[Sage Ages]

Like @FoRiZon is saying, is it even necessary to license before modeling and experimenting with them?

If it was only an experiment, they wouldn't bother to model four different motorcycles in complete detail. It's simply a waste of resources.

Only explanations that I can think of that would make sense are:
1. Something that was cut at the last second for whatever reasons. Not the first time this has happened.
2. Something intended for a future update/DLC. Also not the first time this happened.

 

[Gotbeefboy564]

Skipped Payback I might pre order this Saturday just so I can switch things up between Forza and Heat.

 

[MroczMR]

Maybe they not comming, but what i would love to see is some scripted/nonscripted single player mission when we are racing against a bike. Something like Forza Horizon 4 event with those motocross bikes.

 

[girabyt3]

Maybe they not comming, but what i would love to see is some scripted/nonscripted single player mission when we are racing against a bike. Something like Forza Horizon 4 event with those motocross bikes.

Maybe (just maybe) they could be just messing with us to avoid any questions until the possible reveal ... Honestly, it would be game-breaking for NFS to have playable bikes for the 1st time

 

[Boxout]

Looks like the bikes ain't happening.

Honestly I'm glad they're not coming in this game. I don't like the idea of bikes being mixed up with cars together in games and Heat seems to focus heavily on no restrictions for events. I personally wouldn't want to get in races against bikes, I don't feel like they fit in with the cars.
A game that could have it implemented would be Payback with it's whole class system. Bikes get their own classes and events where they go only against other bikes. Something like that could be pretty fun.

 

[kenmari]

Full song list

 

[JR98]

Not sure I’m buying this. You don’t exactly license and model four entire bikes for an “experiment”.

It’s just left over code that someone happened to find, pretty sure they didn’t licence the bikes at all.

They likely wanted to implement bikes into Heat since DRIVECLUB and The Crew 2 have both implemented bikes into their games.

If Ghost is saying it’s left over code and won’t be in the game then that most likely is just the case.

 

[FT-1]

The Real Life K.S. Polestar 1 is complete!

 

[ELmarcotuff]

Theres no rock?

 

[Gotbeefboy564]

Pre ordered the deluxe edition at GameStop today.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Someone got it early and uploaded footage of early game heat 5 cop chase:



I haven’t watched the whole video, I skimmed through it and the cops looks good enough at keeping up with the player.

 

[helvetica bold]

On a pure technical level, I feel NFS Heat looks a lot like NFS 2015 or is it me? DICE pushes the Frostbite engine on each Battlefield title so they look progressively better. I cant say Heat looks better than 2015. NFS Heat does support HDR so that's progress. I might change my mind later in the week when i get to actually play the game.

 

[JR98]

On a pure technical level, I feel NFS Heat looks a lot like NFS 2015 or is it me? DICE pushes the Frostbite engine on each Battlefield title so they look progressively better. I cant say Heat looks better than 2015. NFS Heat does support HDR so that's progress. I might change my mind later in the week when i get to actually play the game.

To be fair 2015 did have a few things that looked really bad that were covered up by the night time setting, I remember the driver models in the cars were especially bad which is why in some areas Payback and Heat look worse as they also had daytime so they had to improve how other areas of the game looked

 

[Sage Ages]

Different aesthetics. 2015 went for a more photorealistic look whilst Heat is much more stylized.

As far as graphical fidelity goes, Heat is better in almost every area. I believe there's a few compromises here and there but there are more improvements than there are downgrades.

 

[Boxout]

Watching some of the new gameplay and the game definitely got some polishing from what we seen with the game changers.

Dex now have a custom car instead of a stock R32:

 

[helvetica bold]

The city during the day free roam looks so sterile and empty. Im in the minority but miss the atmosphere and locations from NFS 2010 and NFS Rivals.

 

[Turboteg90]

Alright I bit the bullet and bought the deluxe game this morning. I have faith in this game.

 

[neddyie118]

Alright I bit the bullet and bought the deluxe game this morning. I have faith in this game.

Same here