Need some help with tactile transducers

[lubetek]

I've decided I want to run the SimVibe software for my new Obutto R3Volution.

Now I spent the last two days researching tactile transducers, amps etc.

What keeps me hung up though is the transducers.

I can't buy 4 buttkickers in one go. If I go the butt kicker route I'll only be buying two gamer models for now. Maybe another two down the road.

Or I can go another route: Buy eight smaller transducers and buy a couple of 2 channel amps to power them.

The only way to keep the costs down though is to buy Dayton pucks or something similar.

I can buy (8) Dayton Audio TT25-8 PUCKs Mini Bass Shakers @ 8 Ohm and run two in each corner wired @ 4 Ohm and powered by a 4 Ohm amp.

Or if need be I can buy (8) Dayton Audio TT25-16 PUCKs @ 16 Ohm and run two in each corner wired to 8 Ohm and buy a couple of 8 Ohm amps.

No matter what Ohm I run my main concern is having two of these in each corner still won't work well. If only I could find some user reviews that talk about these pucks in detail when using in a cockpit.

I'm really torn because I don't want to spend a lot of money but I also don't want bass shakers that are hardly felt. But maybe these Dayton pucks will work well. maybe they will rock. It is the unknowing thats killing me right now.

Anyone have any input for me?

 

[Coxis]

I wouldn't recommend the pucks for a full-on Simvibe setup. The minimum would be either the buttkicker (red), the buttkicker (black) or the Aura pro shaker. There are folks with far more experience than me in this regard and they should be here in no time.

 

[lubetek]

Well if I go with butt kickers then i would get the (2) BK mini-CT or (2) BK Mini-LFE (both black) or I could go with (2) BK-GR2 Gamer2.


Okay so the pucks are out.

I did notice that they have this one: Visaton BS130-4 Tactile Transducer Bass Shaker 4 Ohm
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=292-550

They are out of stock on the Aura models but this one I linked to looks to be about the same damn thing. Just without the fins. It doesn't list the force spec but everything else including size seems alike. I can't find any reviews on this though.

Butt Kickers seem a good bet to me and fall within my price range but I'd have to run a two transducer system instead of four. Of course I could do that and then just add two more down the road when I have more money.

 

[Coxis]

lube, if what you want is not such a strong initial investment, which is understandable since the price of the hardware is considerable and so is the cost of the software then I would suggest getting 2 right now, and start out with Simvibe's extension mode. After a while you can buy the other 2 and move to chassis mode.

The buttkicker gamer, the mini-LFE and the Aura pro shakers are the ones that are community-tested and most everyone into sim racing will recommend.

 

[lubetek]

Thanks Coxis. I think thats what I will do. Gonna go have lunch and think on it.

I wonder which option would be better though; Buying my own 2 channel amp to power two Butt Kicker mini's or just buying two of the butt Kicker gamer 2's with their own 90 watt amp?

 

[fatkrakr]

Some on this site will tell you the gamer amp isn't powerful enough to run the gamer transducers to full power. Which may be true, but for me the gamer hits harder than I want or need so a bigger amp for myself is worthless. If your looking for your neighbors to feel what you feel by all means crank up the power. For most though the gamer has plenty of kick.

 

[Rallywagon]

SOmething to note on what fatkrakr jsut mentioned. the gamer2s amp is under powered to run the transducer. While it may seem a small issue, you get far better performance across the board if you run them on an amp that can power them. from low "volume" up. do a google search of "sub clipping"

 

[fatkrakr]

I will agree if your going to be running the gamer at or close to full power a bigger amp is required for better performance. If you don't plan on shaking the whole house the gamer amp will perform as well as a more powerful amp at the same volume levels. Its only if you get the amp clipping will it effect performance. If your amp isn't clipping you have nothing to gain from a more powerful amp.

Some amps have some extra features that some find useful, but that doesn't mean the amp is doing a better job of delivering power, just adds some features.

 

[lubetek]

I'm not looking for it to be crazy powerful. I just want good tactile feedback.

What I like about the gamer2 is it has mounting arms and should mount up on my Obutto very easily.

Looking at the gamer2 and the BK mini's they seem to be the same thing just one has mounting arm and the other two don't.

If I ran two BK minis I'd most likely just buy a smaller amp anyway. Maybe something that does 50 watts RMS per channel. I can't imagine 50 watts not being able to push the BK's well. I could maybe get something larger that pushes say 100 watts RMS per channel but I will have to look and see whats available.

 

[fatkrakr]

The gamers come with a 90 watt amp. I think youll find them to be plenty.

 

[lubetek]

Thanks for the input guys. I just placed an order for two BK Gamer 2's and should have them next Monday.

Now I can relax....

NOT!

Quick question though...

Running two BK's where would be the best place to position them for the SimVibe extension mode? One up front and one in rear or both in rear to either side of chair?

 

[Coxis]

Depends on what you want. In extension mode you can have up to 4 channels: seat, pedals, wheel and shifter. If I was in your situation, I'd want tactile feedback on my seat and pedals for now but you can place both under your seat and get extra strong seat feedback if you want.

 

[lubetek]

I was planning on one mounted at pedals and one at seat. So good to know. Thats what I'll do.

Now I can relax....

 

[Rallywagon]

Another thought is to run them to the left and right. You can feel rumble strips and the vibrations from other cars around you.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Gamer is easy to tune, super easy to mount, and on a scale of 1-10 (1 being a mouse sneeze and 10 being a sherman tank driving by) I would rate them as a 6. They give you only a decent vibration, but they are a good value when you consider that for the money they come with their own amp. Its an excellent place to start, and down the road if you find yourself wanting more power, you can relegate the gamers down the the pedalboard and shifters, which are the 2 most commonly overlooked areas of tactile immersion.

 

[fatkrakr]

With the way some speak about the gamer makes me think either buttkicker changed amp specs or some are just not setting up the system right. I have had my gamer since about a month before gt5 came out. I have rubber isolators between my seat and the rig frame and also isolators between the floor and the rig. With all that I can still turn mine up so that it shakes pictures on the wall in the other room. Some of you must be shaking your fillings loose. I cant take mine turned up that high. It makes my eyeballs shake in my skull.

 

[LogiForce]

Goddamn, I was too late noticing this thread.

Those Buttkicker Gamer 2 amps SUCK. They are not able to drive the speakers that come with the kit. Just looking at the wattage ratings will tell you that.

As soon as the amp can drive the speaker, the amp clips. This causes the speaker to bottom out with as a result that the coil inside will overheat and you will blow up the gamer 2 speaker.

You need to buy a Behringer iNuke 1000DSP to properly power the gamer 2 speakers. I am speaking from unfortunate experience. I now have such an amp driving one gamer 2 and one mini LFE.

 

[lubetek]

How many watts does that amp really put out? I looked at the specs and they only list MAX wattage per channel.

I'm not too worried because ultimately I want to run an additional two transducers so I will have to buy two more plus one amp. If for some reason I'm not satisfied with the BK amps I will move those to the new transducers and buy a bigger amp to run the two BK Gamer2's.

I actually have a gaming chair that i built a cockpit around in my garage. It has transducers throughout the seat (Back and butt area) with a built in amp. It always worked good for tactile feedback in my wooden cockpit. I'm going to break the seat open and pull the transducers out as well as the built in amp and see what i can do with it.

 

[mrbasher]

You can save $100 and get the non-DSP model as well...

 

[LogiForce]

How many watts does that amp really put out? I looked at the specs and they only list MAX wattage per channel.

I'm not too worried because ultimately I want to run an additional two transducers so I will have to buy two more plus one amp. If for some reason I'm not satisfied with the BK amps I will move those to the new transducers and buy a bigger amp to run the two BK Gamer2's.

I actually have a gaming chair that i built a cockpit around in my garage. It has transducers throughout the seat (Back and butt area) with a built in amp. It always worked good for tactile feedback in my wooden cockpit. I'm going to break the seat open and pull the transducers out as well as the built in amp and see what i can do with it.

How many watts? 1000 as per the name.
You only need to know what it gives per channel though, besides it drives each channel seperately so you can use different impedance speakers. The total is just the sum of the two basically.

Well, its up to you I suppose what you wish to do. I hope you will enjoy yourself with it.
I only started to enjoy my tactile after I got my iNuke. Before the vibrations didn't feel right and delayed.

You can save $100 and get the non-DSP model as well...

But you can't setup a delay to increase the spacious feeling of the tactile feedback. Without it it does feel like you drive a Peel P50 when you drive a big Cadillac.
I would not want one without DSP at least.

You get what you pay for I suppose.

 

[Pharohbender]

i used 1 buttkicker and blew the amp damn old capacitors... during the time using the simvibe software the buttkicker ended up heating up and locking as i was playing for a while 2-4 hrs then i had to put the volume on the buttkicker down so it would stop locking up or shaking so bad it would stop, it was good for a while using it for effects like gear change and braking but i would have liked some tactile transducers as well.
i'm using a xms-1338 amp which is powering up the buttkicker works ok for now... its set low volume but the butkicker stays cooler and doesnt lock up.

 

[LogiForce]

i used 1 buttkicker and blew the amp damn old capacitors... during the time using the simvibe software the buttkicker ended up heating up and locking as i was playing for a while 2-4 hrs then i had to put the volume on the buttkicker down so it would stop locking up or shaking so bad it would stop, it was good for a while using it for effects like gear change and braking but i would have liked some tactile transducers as well.
i'm using a xms-1338 amp which is powering up the buttkicker works ok for now... its set low volume but the butkicker stays cooler and doesnt lock up.

Most likely the following thing is happening.

 

[Pharohbender]

Most likely the following thing is happening.

hmmm interesting
had a look at the back of the amp its a 8ohm i thought that's why its crapping out the signal as the butter-kicker needs 2ohm
or is that more power? i get confused if its cleaner signal or more power to the butt-kicker.

tried to fix the old amp blew up again... damn electronics, so looking for something smaller to use instead of the xms-1338


90 Watts rms @ 2 ohms

any links to a nice cheapish amp or bass amp will do thanks for the help.
i was looking at this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/hifi-2-5...ctronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item19e061f07d

but this one is smaller and 4ohm

 

[LogiForce]

hmmm interesting
had a look at the back of the amp its a 8ohm i thought that's why its crapping out the signal as the butter-kicker needs 2ohm
or is that more power? i get confused if its cleaner signal or more power to the butt-kicker.

tried to fix the old amp blew up again... damn electronics, so looking for something smaller to use instead of the xms-1338


90 Watts rms @ 2 ohms

any links to a nice cheapish amp or bass amp will do thanks for the help.
i was looking at this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/hifi-2-5...ctronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item19e061f07d

but this one is smaller and 4ohm

If you try to drive a 2 ohm speaker with a 8 ohm max amplifier than your amplifier will get hot due to the resistance and 'blow up' as it overheats eventually.

That 4 ohm amp will overheat as well. You will need an amp that is capable of driving 2 ohm speakers, and one that is 10% more watts at least than the maximum output wattage of your speaker.