Neglect for Multicultural and International Diversity

[niky]

If you go overseas... do it for work or study.
Study gets you better work when you get back. Work means you'll at least break even on the cost of the trip or make more money... and counts towards your credentials afterwards.

Who knows? You may even find a new place to put down roots. Lots of Americans, Brits and Europeans who settle down out here in the tropics. Lots of sun, fine beaches, cheap beer.

 

[Danoff]

On that 10th year, when the non-traveler made $88k, the traveler is making $81k. That is $7k difference.

I know, you should understand what you are saying first.


It is a pattern. It won't change. The number for the traveler is always equal to the year, or line above, before for the non-traveler.

There's an easy joke in here about traveling vs. math class. It's a $7k difference that year. The total cost of the trip (overall) is the final year's earnings (taking into account interest) which I know you understand. I think it's about time you just admit that I'm right and move on.

Why are you guys so hung up about the math? Sure it's a great argument in a perfect world to say X started working before Y and will therefore have more retirement money 45 years later. That is flawed on so many levels. Life is not predictable like that, you can't even begin to factor in things like debt, inflation, unexpected circumstances, illness, injuries and all manner of other things over a 45 year period.

I addressed that here:

Now, this assumes you save everything and earn interest on it. Some will say that's not fair, but there is utility to having money earlier. It's not my concern what you do with it. Spend it, save it, regardless - this is what it's worth.

Heck, why even bother wasting 4 years in college? Start work as soon as possible so you can have even more money for retirement.

It's something each person should take into account, especially considering their respective area of study. I considered it when deciding whether to go after a PhD or just a Masters. The PhD never made up for the 4 years of lost salary. That (among other things) prevented me from deciding I should get one. In other areas of study the result would be different.

 

[Dapper]

I think it's about time you just admit that I'm right and move on.

I'll admit this is silly, but you are definitely wrong.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

It's good to keep your eyes open to the consequences of these choices. Make an informed decision with full realization of the cost.

It's also important to understand that not everyone shares your priority list of values, Danoff.

From what I gleam from your posts it seems like you have done well for yourself and have a pragmatic, measured approach to life and finance and that's great that it has worked out for you.

I'm just saying that not everyone is going to weigh the opportunity cost of a year traveling in their early 20s against their retirement or long term projected income plans, and that's not necessarily foolish nor reckless. Not everyone is going to plow through four years of college, land a decent job, and begin dumping money in a 401k right away and pick up a wife and a kid or two by their 30s.

There are many paths to happiness, and I tend to value finding a purpose over making a good sum of cash. You can stock sway as much as you want and that will let you buy the most precious resource of them all: time. All that free time is a waste though if you have no purpose or drive to do something with it.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Anyway... veering away from Danoff's asertions that you should just work like a slave and nothing else your entire life, because otherwise you might miss out on a bit of interest:

There is a great big wide world out there, full of fascinating sights and people and I, for one, want to see more of it. I've travelled a little bit over the last couple of years, mostly around Europe, but also to the US, the Middle East, and two all too short visits to the Seychelles and Cuba. But now I want to experience a lot more - I want to go to the far east - places like Thailand, China and Vietnam are calling to me. I'd love to see a good bit of South America - a few friends trekked the Inca Trail a few years back and loved it. And I want to see more of America.

I'm a little bit stuck at the mo, having a 6 month old daughter and a good-sized mortgage, but once the kids are a little bit older, I'll be heading off out there again. I like to think that I'm a more rounded and slightly more, for want of a better word, wise person for having experienced different countries and cultures. And I will encourage my kids to get out there a bit when they're old enough.

The OP mentioned that they'd never been outside Texas. I find this really weird, not least because I'd been to Greece, France and Spain before I was 4. I just don't understand how, in this day and age, with all our access to easy world-travel, that anyone in the first world has enevr been out of their immediate vicinity. Get out there, see some stuff, have some exeriences, you'll be a better person for it. Even if you don't leave America, there's a lot to see without having to leave your own borders...

 

[homeforsummer]

Solution to everyone's problems: Get a job that pays you to travel

There's a reason I'm going into journalism...

 

[Danoff]

It's also important to understand that not everyone shares your priority list of values, Danoff.

From what I gleam from your posts it seems like you have done well for yourself and have a pragmatic, measured approach to life and finance and that's great that it has worked out for you.

I'm just saying that not everyone is going to weigh the opportunity cost of a year traveling in their early 20s against their retirement or long term projected income plans, and that's not necessarily foolish nor reckless. Not everyone is going to plow through four years of college, land a decent job, and begin dumping money in a 401k right away and pick up a wife and a kid or two by their 30s.

There are many paths to happiness, and I tend to value finding a purpose over making a good sum of cash. You can stock sway as much as you want and that will let you buy the most precious resource of them all: time. All that free time is a waste though if you have no purpose or drive to do something with it.

I'm sure you (and everyone else in this thread) understand the importance of recognizing the costs and deciding that what you're giving up is worth what you're getting. Like it or not, regardless of your priorities, you are sacrificing something. Wishing it weren't so doesn't change the facts.

I don't think it does anyone any good to do as Scouser above does and pretend that the cost is zero.

As homeforsummer points out, once you get a job you'll often get paid to travel. That's a win-win.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Travelling takes time and money, I would like to do more travelling, but I don't have the two vital ingredients.

 

[Pupik]

Solution to everyone's problems: Get a job that pays you to travel

There's a reason I'm going into journalism...

...and do it while you're young. Although, my job doesn't really have much of a provision for leaving the United States, save a couple of jaunts to the Caribbean. Still, you get a better idea of the vastness of America that way.

I think taking a year off to travel is quite a long time, perhaps a semester is a little easier to deal with.

 

[slims]

I'm sure you (and everyone else in this thread) understand the importance of recognizing the costs and deciding that what you're giving up is worth what you're getting. Like it or not, regardless of your priorities, you are sacrificing something. Wishing it weren't so doesn't change the facts.

I don't think it does anyone any good to do as Scouser above does and pretend that the cost is zero.

As homeforsummer points out, once you get a job you'll often get paid to travel. That's a win-win.

But that's the thing, you see it as a sacrifice. The people out in the world travelling for a year or even more don't see it that way, they see it as an experience. Some even see it as a way of life. If everyone who traveled for extended periods of time thought it was a sacrifice then hardly anyone would do it.

 

[Danoff]

But that's the thing, you see it as a sacrifice. The people out in the world travelling for a year or even more don't see it that way, they see it as an experience. Some even see it as a way of life. If everyone who traveled for extended periods of time thought it was a sacrifice then hardly anyone would do it.

It is a sacrifice. The question is whether it's worthwhile. Some people will say yes, others will say no, and some will never bother to figure out what the cost is.

I advocate that nobody fall into that last category. It's fine to make international travel a massive priority, but you should go into any decision about what to do with a year of your life with open eyes.

 

[DK]

Two or three months I can understand (and agree with), but a whole year travelling around the world? I can see both sides of the argument, but I have to disagree on the idea of "Wait 'til you've retired." I doubt that when I'm 70, that I'll have the same ability to travel around the world as someone just over a quarter of that age.

 

[Danoff]

Two or three months I can understand (and agree with), but a whole year travelling around the world? I can see both sides of the argument, but I have to disagree on the idea of "Wait 'til you've retired." I doubt that when I'm 70, that I'll have the same ability to travel around the world as someone just over a quarter of that age.

More importantly, you won't have the ability to work that someone just over a quarter of that age will.

 

[DK]

^ You never know, Danoff, I'm 53 years away from being 70, and there could be a lot of medical innovations between now and 2064.

 

[Danoff]

^ You never know, Danoff, I'm 53 years away from being 70, and there could be a lot of medical innovations between now and 2064.

...that would undermine your point wouldn't it?

I agree with you though, a few months seems smart, a year seems like over-doing it.

 

[Dapper]

More importantly, you won't have the ability to work that someone just over a quarter of that age will.

The amount of physical detriment one may incur between age 65 and 66, the one year of work to make up for starting one year later because of traveling, is negligible when considering one's entire life span.