New Bond Film - "Spectre" - October / November 2015
- Thread starter Furinkazen
- 537 comments
- 29,472 views
- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
There's a bit of spoilers in this review.
He gave it a B+ for those too lazy to watch it.
He gave it a B+ for those too lazy to watch it.
- 7,090
- Jakarta
I'm kinda on a fence with this one. I just saw it and i lovr how it feels so similar to the classic Bond movies but at the same time i still like Skyfall a bit more. The opening credits in this one felt a bit half assed to me, i don't why.
But the opening sequence, the Africa section just screams classic Bond (especially with that Rolls Royce and a driver).
7.5/10
But the opening sequence, the Africa section just screams classic Bond (especially with that Rolls Royce and a driver).
7.5/10
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Slightly Bond-related...
- 13,267
- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
Just came back from seeing Spectre. It was quite good if a bit predictable in places. I was left scratching my head trying to work out how the previous 3 films were linked to this one. Maybe it was the way it was presented that left me confused. It certainly wasn't as good as Skyfall but it wasn't as bad as Casino Royale.
7/10
7/10
- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Just got back from seeing it. It was good. I'm just disappointed about the DB10.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
FINALLY getting my chance to see Spectre tonight. They stagger the worldwide release dates to let the major markets have their own premiere, but we never do and we're always stuck with a staggered release date two or three weeks after the UK.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Alright, time for my review. And as some of you might have guessed, it's going to get thematic.
Also, Sam Smith's theme song is the worst Bond theme ever. It's completely removed from everything that happens.
Firstly, to understand Spectre, you have to understand Skyfall.
I have posted my "theory of two worlds" before, but here it is in full: Skyfall presents the world as having two distinct halves that exist in a very delicate balance. First, we have our world, or the "light world". It is romanticised, idealised; it is a world where everything is as it should be. But the inverse is a cynical world, a "shadow world" where all the latent evils exist. At the start of Skyfall, there is a very small window where the light and shadow worlds overlap, and Bond exists within that window.
One of my pet hates in popular culture is the typical patriarchal hero who rejects a system that is outdated and replaces society's morality and sense of justice with his own. By the end of the story, society inevitably catches up, vindicating the hero despite the fact that he blatantly abuses the power instilled in him as the defender of the status quo. Bond, however, is unusual in that he is a defender of the status quo, but is never beholden to a conventional system. He operates on the frontier of morality, a space that cannot be defined by law. He is accountable to himself, but has avoided corruption. This is because when he is in the light world, he is a cynical figure, but when he is in the shadow world, he is a romantic. It is this paradox that prevents him from being drawn too deeply into either one.
Skyfall is built on the premise that the window between these two worlds is widening, with the light world becoming increasingly aware of the shadow. The response is to reject the shadow world, to not only separate it from the light, but destroy it entirely. This is impossible because they are two sides of the same coin, so to speak. By the end of Skyfall, the balance is restored, but it comes at a cost: Bond is forced to choose a side. He can no longer be a moderator of the two.
This sets up the conditions for Spectre. With Bond picking a side, a vacuum has emerged, and it must be filled by an entity; that entity is Spectre itself. Where Skyfall attempted to separate the light and the shadow worlds, Spectre attempts to merge them. And so we get the conflict between Bond and Blofeld, with both men constantly trying to redefine the other on their terms. Blofeld credits Bond with his creation, and attempts to destroy his identity. Bond scars Blofeld, and so Blofeld destroys everything that once represented him, forcing him to recommit to making the same choice that he made in Skyfall. In a sense, they are each other's spectres.
I have alluded to the idea of Spectre being a beast that feeds on our own paranoia and insecurity before, and I think that still holds true. They are the physical manifestation of the shadow world gaining a foothold in the light world, attempting to consume it whilst using misdirection to make us believe that we still have freedom. If Skyfall is apocalyptic, then Spectre is the fallout as everything becomes subjectively redefined. The status quo established in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is gone, and the world exists in a state of dynamic disequilibrium. Bond is now on a constantly-shifting landscape, but does not have the passive responsibility of maintaining the status quo; Spectre is his discovery that he can wield as much influence as he is subjected to.
Ultimately, I think Spectre will be remembered for how Bond 25 plays out. It feels like the middle chapter in a trilogy (though I suspect that it could run up to Bond 26 and even Bond 27). A lot of the film moves the pieces around on the board, and at the risk of falling into a mixed metaphor, pulling back the curtain and showing us the inner workings of the world following Skyfall.
I have posted my "theory of two worlds" before, but here it is in full: Skyfall presents the world as having two distinct halves that exist in a very delicate balance. First, we have our world, or the "light world". It is romanticised, idealised; it is a world where everything is as it should be. But the inverse is a cynical world, a "shadow world" where all the latent evils exist. At the start of Skyfall, there is a very small window where the light and shadow worlds overlap, and Bond exists within that window.
One of my pet hates in popular culture is the typical patriarchal hero who rejects a system that is outdated and replaces society's morality and sense of justice with his own. By the end of the story, society inevitably catches up, vindicating the hero despite the fact that he blatantly abuses the power instilled in him as the defender of the status quo. Bond, however, is unusual in that he is a defender of the status quo, but is never beholden to a conventional system. He operates on the frontier of morality, a space that cannot be defined by law. He is accountable to himself, but has avoided corruption. This is because when he is in the light world, he is a cynical figure, but when he is in the shadow world, he is a romantic. It is this paradox that prevents him from being drawn too deeply into either one.
Skyfall is built on the premise that the window between these two worlds is widening, with the light world becoming increasingly aware of the shadow. The response is to reject the shadow world, to not only separate it from the light, but destroy it entirely. This is impossible because they are two sides of the same coin, so to speak. By the end of Skyfall, the balance is restored, but it comes at a cost: Bond is forced to choose a side. He can no longer be a moderator of the two.
This sets up the conditions for Spectre. With Bond picking a side, a vacuum has emerged, and it must be filled by an entity; that entity is Spectre itself. Where Skyfall attempted to separate the light and the shadow worlds, Spectre attempts to merge them. And so we get the conflict between Bond and Blofeld, with both men constantly trying to redefine the other on their terms. Blofeld credits Bond with his creation, and attempts to destroy his identity. Bond scars Blofeld, and so Blofeld destroys everything that once represented him, forcing him to recommit to making the same choice that he made in Skyfall. In a sense, they are each other's spectres.
I have alluded to the idea of Spectre being a beast that feeds on our own paranoia and insecurity before, and I think that still holds true. They are the physical manifestation of the shadow world gaining a foothold in the light world, attempting to consume it whilst using misdirection to make us believe that we still have freedom. If Skyfall is apocalyptic, then Spectre is the fallout as everything becomes subjectively redefined. The status quo established in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is gone, and the world exists in a state of dynamic disequilibrium. Bond is now on a constantly-shifting landscape, but does not have the passive responsibility of maintaining the status quo; Spectre is his discovery that he can wield as much influence as he is subjected to.
Ultimately, I think Spectre will be remembered for how Bond 25 plays out. It feels like the middle chapter in a trilogy (though I suspect that it could run up to Bond 26 and even Bond 27). A lot of the film moves the pieces around on the board, and at the risk of falling into a mixed metaphor, pulling back the curtain and showing us the inner workings of the world following Skyfall.
To be honest I just saw it as the first film since they got the rights to the SPECTRE group back.
Under QoS? Surely not. That really was an awful movie best described here - http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=quantum_of_phallus
Under QoS? Surely not. That really was an awful movie best described here - http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=quantum_of_phallus
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
One of the main ideas of the film is the question of how far Bond will go for answers. The Bolivian water supply represents a metaphorical "ends of the earth", with Bond risking his life on a distant an inconsequential battlefield fighting an amorphous enemy. If it comes across as pointless, that's because it's supposed to (although it was lost in the constant action).
Plus, Spectre establishes the organisation as existing at the periphery of the world's awareness long before it established itself as a supra-national world power. Manipulating the course of governments for profit in the distant corners of the world is consistent with that.
Brend
Premium
- 11,771
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
'It was me James, I am the author of your pain'
Thanks for the elaboration, Waltz. Now lets let fans try and pick up the pieces of your terribly elaborated involvement in the past few movies.
Still though, there was a cat! Blofield has a cat! remember! like in the old Bond films!
Thanks for the elaboration, Waltz. Now lets let fans try and pick up the pieces of your terribly elaborated involvement in the past few movies.
Still though, there was a cat! Blofield has a cat! remember! like in the old Bond films!
Well to be honest I don't think most people are watching Bond for deep, metaphorical goings on. That isn't what made the series so popular. QoS wasn't an asolutely terrible movie, I'll still watch it from time to time, but it's just a very muddled up, bland story and a result of the writers strike at the time. It wasn't even meant to connect much.
Also regarding the groups, Not really spoiler but just in case...
Daniel Craig
Also regarding the groups, Not really spoiler but just in case...
Spectre and the downscaling of Quantum was a ret-con, Quantum were meant to be the big, hidden organisation. Then when they got the rights to SPECTRE back, they changed Quantum to only be a small arm of them, but that wasn't the intention when they wrote the first three.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,413
- Texas
Saw it last weekend. It wasn't bad, but I'm not sure it lived up to the hype. It didn't feel as long as it was supposed to be to me, & I was really let down with the villain. Waltz was a great villain in the short dialogue he had. It just seemed when he was torturing Bond, that was the only real script he had & as Brend shows, now everyone will wonder how he played into the last movies. That same scene, Bond still never appeared like he was in any real danger unlike Casino Royale where he was poisoned.
That being said, I would actually watch it again in hopes maybe I just didn't catch everything & improve my view on it.
I also never got the media's attention on Monica Belluci being the oldest Bond girl. She was barely in the movie & hardly James' love interest.
Léa Seydoux on the other hand; gorgeous.
That being said, I would actually watch it again in hopes maybe I just didn't catch everything & improve my view on it.
I also never got the media's attention on Monica Belluci being the oldest Bond girl. She was barely in the movie & hardly James' love interest.
Léa Seydoux on the other hand; gorgeous.
Brend
Premium
- 11,771
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
I've seen it twice. Once in a regular cinema and the other at the IMAX. Unfortunately for me, there were no 'hidden' plot points picked up...just further subjection to very awkwardly executed humor ques nobody in the cinema really picked up upon. There were a few gems of course, notably 'M' nearly the end...but seriously, the humor felt so iffy in this JB installment.Saw it last weekend. It wasn't bad, but I'm not sure it lived up to the hype. It didn't feel as long as it was supposed to be to me, & I was really let down with the villain. Waltz was a great villain in the short dialogue he had. It just seemed when he was torturing Bond, that was the only real script he had & as Brend shows, now everyone will wonder how he played into the last movies. That same scene, Bond still never appeared like he was in any real danger unlike Casino Royale where he was poisoned.
That being said, I would actually watch it again in hopes maybe I just didn't catch everything & improve my view on it.
I also never got the media's attention on Monica Belluci being the oldest Bond girl. She was barely in the movie & hardly James' love interest.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Brend
Premium
- 11,771
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
I do understand that viewpoint prisonermonkeys, that is the only sort of rationale that can be picked up but surely revealing the shadowy organization anyway in this movie would have played out better with a bit of history toward how they achieved their objectives.
It just felt like we were out of the loop, maybe that's the metaphorical purpose...to make us feel like James himself!
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Just got back from this, yeah was a let down for me. I'll post my full thoughts tomorrow but I didn't like it.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Meanwhile, Michael G. Wilson believes that a deal for Bond 25 can be finalised as early as February.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Ok before I give a score there are some questions which I feel I may be too stupid and missed them
- Why is Blofield evil? his father took in young james which apparently warrants his death....... what?
- Why did James take Dr Swan to Blofield's headquarters and what was his plan actually? somehow hope he will be in a situation where the Villian and somewhat evil brother forget to take off his watch which will no doubt contain some sort of gadget?
- If Blofield wanted to torture James first why did he send Batista to kill him?
- Why after going through all the trouble of giving James 3 minutes to rescue the girl does Blofield leave a freaking safety net for James to exploit?
- Why did the whole torture device not work? it looked highly sofisticated and it did nothing Blofield said it will.
- Why didn't Mr white just show James where L'american is, he literally almost killed his daughter by sending James after her.
some letdowns
The DB-10, CX-75 chase scene was very boring. but I loved the opening sequence and the plane chase.
- Why did James take Dr Swan to Blofield's headquarters and what was his plan actually? somehow hope he will be in a situation where the Villian and somewhat evil brother forget to take off his watch which will no doubt contain some sort of gadget?
- If Blofield wanted to torture James first why did he send Batista to kill him?
- Why after going through all the trouble of giving James 3 minutes to rescue the girl does Blofield leave a freaking safety net for James to exploit?
- Why did the whole torture device not work? it looked highly sofisticated and it did nothing Blofield said it will.
- Why didn't Mr white just show James where L'american is, he literally almost killed his daughter by sending James after her.
some letdowns
The DB-10, CX-75 chase scene was very boring. but I loved the opening sequence and the plane chase.
- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
I think the safety net was placed there by the government who regulate ruined buildings, like in case debris fell, it would fall into the net instead of the ground where there might be people working.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Note to all bad guys who take Bond on anytime anywhere ever:
Kill him. Kill him straight away. Don't leave him in a cell/killzone with a beautiful woman. Kill him now.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
but why didn't
Blofield remove it? seems like such a daft thing to forget to do
Exactly
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's something of a deliberately unanswered question. We know Blofeld is out there, we know that he's evil, and we know that he despises Bond. His exact motivations are yet to be revealed.
Also, he hates Bond for disrupting the plans of his agents, Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva. Part of his plan is engineering a meeting between the two.
It's further implied that his vendetta against Bond is affecting his judgement.
Also, he hates Bond for disrupting the plans of his agents, Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva. Part of his plan is engineering a meeting between the two.
It's further implied that his vendetta against Bond is affecting his judgement.
Swann wanted to understand White's obsession with finding Blofeld.
As for Blofeld's plan, an organisation like the original SPECTRE couldn't exist in today's day and age - they would be picked up by the intelligence agencies straight away, especially since they know about Quantum. Blofeld's plan was to engineer terror attacks, and create a need for "Nine Eyes", a worldwide surveillance and intelligence-sharing network. C then passes the intelligence data on to Spectre, allowing them to establish themselves as a supra-national world power.
As for the watch, Blofeld has no reason to believe that it is anything but a watch.
As for Blofeld's plan, an organisation like the original SPECTRE couldn't exist in today's day and age - they would be picked up by the intelligence agencies straight away, especially since they know about Quantum. Blofeld's plan was to engineer terror attacks, and create a need for "Nine Eyes", a worldwide surveillance and intelligence-sharing network. C then passes the intelligence data on to Spectre, allowing them to establish themselves as a supra-national world power.
As for the watch, Blofeld has no reason to believe that it is anything but a watch.
Torturing Bond wasn't necessarily a part of the plan from the outset. If Hinx killed him, Bond is no longer a threat. If Bond survives, Blofeld has a chance to kill him. He's hedging his bets - and letting his vendetta get in the way of the job might jeopardise his position in Spectre.
Blofeld knows Bond has bested his agents, but he has never seen Bond in action directly. If the explosion kills Bond, then so much the better for Blofeld. But if he survives, Blofeld knows that there is only one way he could have done it, which tells him about Bond's resourcefulness and intelligence. By giving Bond an out under controlled conditions, Blofeld confirms Bond's ability, rather than trusting to luck and having Bond improvise an escape.
Part of it is psychological torture. Bond tells him to get on with it, but when the needle-drill is removed, he still recognises faces, which means the next drill will do it, or the one after. It's also implied that the drill did work, but Bond was able to retain his wits and bluff through it.
As for the one affecting his senses and balance, the effects were only temporary. And Swann is clearly supporting Bond during their escape, particularly when he is shooting.
As for the one affecting his senses and balance, the effects were only temporary. And Swann is clearly supporting Bond during their escape, particularly when he is shooting.
He wasn't going to give Bond something for nothing. And so long as he was alive, Swann was safe. Once he was dead, Blofeld was always going to go after her.
- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Behind the scenes look of the car chase by Top Gear.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/beh...l-behind-scenes-spectres-big-rome-car-chase#6
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/beh...l-behind-scenes-spectres-big-rome-car-chase#6
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Valid points @prisonermonkeys still feel let down by it, I'm interested in where you'd rank it in the Craig Bond film movies.
Similar threads
- Poll
