New Gran Turismo 7 "Starting Line" Trailer Reveals More New & Returning Cars

[JDMKING13]

It’s obvious they’re talking about the DualSense controller. I don’t know why you’re confused.

The DS4 vibrates, that’s it, but of course vibrations will be featured on PS4, why wouldn’t they? The DualSense is something completely different, though. You’d know if you ever tried one. It’s nothing short of amazing, really.

I think a lot of people who will use a controller for GT7 on the PS5 will be extremely happy! GTS on the PS4 controller felt great in my opinion, but you can’t compare the sensation you get using the PS5 controller while playing a PS5 game. It’s an amazing sensation, and makes gaming more enjoyable.

 

[ScottPuss20]

It's just definition convention, really.

By the absolute, raw definition of "haptic", anything that delivers a sensation you can feel is "haptic". This includes wheel force feedback, as you say, and everything right back to the first DualShock (well... all of them) and their Eccentric Rotating Mass (title of your sextape).

DualSense isn't actually that far removed from the ERM system in DualShock, as it happens, but it uses magnetic voice coils called Linear Resonance Actuators (LRA) - similar to how mobile phones since... oooh, about 2015 have done it. They still having a moving mass, but it travels short distances along a single axis, rather than accelerating a big mass around and around, so it's quicker to respond and more detailed. In that respect, really DualSense and DualShock haptics aren't that different and it is indeed odd to say that one is haptic and the other isn't.

However, the convention is to refer to a feedback system that detects and measures the force you apply to a button or screen and delivers an appropriate tactile response as "haptic", largely thanks to the proliferation of the term by mobile phone manufacturers. Really, the term for mobile phone/tablet haptics should be "surface haptics", but nobody - up to and including specialist technology outlets - really refers to it as such.

That's essentially all that Sony means when it refers to "haptics". It's not that DualShock isn't a haptic device but, by convention of terminology, the DualSense is what most people think of as haptic.


Basically it's "thanks, Apple, for mutating the language".

What? So you're suggesting that the controllers are only different in name, with the the language being used to describe it as a rewording of what's come before? You have used a PS5 controller right? You should know that it's very different in the haptics department from the PS4 so I don't really know what you're on about.

 

[Famine]

What? So you're suggesting that the controllers are only different in name, with the the language being used to describe it as a rewording of what's come before?

No. Not even close to that. Quite how you've arrived at that conclusion is baffling. I literally describe the differences in technologies in the two controllers...

 

[ScottPuss20]

No. Not even close to that. Quite how you've arrived at that conclusion is baffling. I literally describe the differences in technologies in the two controllers...

You say that the controllers aren't that different from one another, thus suggesting that the "haptic feedback" feature is nothing to crow about because the PS4 always had it (but to a lesser degree and was never spoken about by anyone). The last thing you said about "mutating the language" gave me the impression that the technology hadn't changed, but instead was given a fancier description to make the consumer think they have something new when they don't.

 

[Famine]

You say that the controllers aren't that different from one another

I really didn't. I said that the tech isn't that different; DualShock uses ERM, DualSense uses LRA, both create response vibrations but LRA is more accurate and faster. It's the same idea - vibration to deliver tactile feedback - but DualSense is better at doing it because of the different tech I literally described.

thus suggesting that the "haptic feedback" feature is nothing to crow about because the PS4 always had it (but to a lesser degree and was never spoken about by anyone).

Suggesting only what was written. You've chosen to interpret something that was literally not even in the post and you missed the point of the post and the one to which it was responding entirely.

"Haptic", as I explained in the post and as @Imari noted in the post I was responding to, refers anything that can deliver a response that you can feel. That technology actually dates back to the N64's "RumblePak", but DualShock controllers (which had two ERMs instead of one) pretty much popularised it. Force Feedback wheels are also all technically "haptic" devices too.

And that was the point of @Imari's post; the GT7 trailer said that haptics are only available on PS5, which implies that on PS4 you won't get any FFB wheels or DualShock 4 rumbling, because FFB wheels and DS4 controllers are haptic devices.

What the trailer actually means is that you'll only get the DualSense surface haptics on PS5, because DS4s and FFB wheels aren't capable of surface haptics, but to the general population haptics = surface haptics, not all tactile response devices.

The last thing you said about "mutating the language"

... which is "haptics" mutating to mean exclusively "surface haptics", thanks to Apple's iPhone 7 which introduced surface haptics, when really "haptics" means all kinds of tactile feedback including surface haptics...

gave me the impression that the technology hadn't changed, but instead was given a fancier description to make the consumer think they have something new when they don't.

Which is again literally not even in the post, although descriptions of exactly how the technology has changed were in the post. I don't know how you can take "the impression that the technology hadn't changed" from a post where I describe exactly how the technology has changed.

 

[ynot]

The trailer that featured that portion appeared to have been recorded on an older build.

I am just hoping that can race them with other cars in the same PP range. Some nice cars there that should not have been in Gr.X. Here's hoping for that and the surprise return of shuffle races. C'mon Kaz, make it so.

 

[Monkey Man]

I fixed it for you.

View attachment 1090533


Jerome

Ha!

Good one, mate.

 

[VR DRIVER]

Am I the only one who isn't that impressed with the short clips?
Of course it's nice when Kaz speaks.
But I think it's a bit lame, that we've only seen short gameplay scenes in the showcase Trailer and since then only pre-rendered scenes and partly even reused scenes from the first trailer of 2020.

I hope for more.
Otherwise it feels like a Gran Turismo Sport 1.2

 

[queleuleu]

Am I the only one who isn't that impressed with the short clips?
Of course it's nice when Kaz speaks.
But I think it's a bit lame, that we've only seen short gameplay scenes in the showcase Trailer and since then only pre-rendered scenes and partly even reused scenes from the first trailer of 2020.

I hope for more.
Otherwise it feels like a Gran Turismo Sport 1.2

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

 

[VR DRIVER]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

Yes as much i love the Gran Turismo Series, in terms of Enviroment Graphics, even an open world racer like FH5 are more impressive. It would be so great, when only a few of the good looking scape locations would be used as a Track.

 

[Shakengandulf]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

If GT was simulating as much as Forza, it would probably look as nice.
Not a fair comparison though, maybe the next motosport game will be.

Having said that, im fairly sure we havent seen GT7 at its best, didnt GT Sport look a bit rough at launch?

 

[ProjectF]

Having said that, im fairly sure we havent seen GT7 at its best, didnt GT Sport look a bit rough at launch?

Yes, a example from @emula :

 

[ArR29]

If GT was simulating as much as Forza, it would probably look as nice.
Not a fair comparison though, maybe the next motosport game will be.

Having said that, im fairly sure we havent seen GT7 at its best, didnt GT Sport look a bit rough at launch?

Ever since GTSport they've only been showing their most stable build not actual final build, which is a huge risk doing that specially people like to scrutinize each and every polygon. GTsport looks awful in earlier trailers, least they aren't faking it.

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

I remember watching a DF video where a guy complaining about the visual because it's muted, and he prefers FH vibrant and over the top look. It's not really a surprise that most gamers love vibrant look but personally I prefer a more accurate color grading and visuals. I wouldn't be surprised if every single monitor at PD's office are professionally calibrated which is really expensive.

 

[Strittan]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

I disagree, but that’s me.

 

[ProjectF]

Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

Sorry, you should know that Forza Horizon is an open world roaming type?
If the "world" in FH looks less vivid and lively than GT, it will be a very, very big problem.

I mean, it’s better if you compare it with Forza Motorsport or Project Cars.

 

[zzz_pt]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

The Horizon series is basically an open world game where focused racing, realism or simulation are secondary. It needs eye candy everywhere so it doesn’t turn into a dull experience over time or longer gaming sessions.

In GT, as in Forza Motorsport, the focus is in competitive racing and PD wants your eyes on track instead of the surroundings. I’m sure they could pull of a Tokyo track full of neon lights and “stuff” going on outside the track but that’s not the purpose of GT games.

GT has probably the most accurate circuits/Color/lighting combination in the industry. Some people might prefer the slightly more vivid colors of other games such as FM or even PC but Horizon is, imo, a completely different genre of game altogether. It has cars but competitive racing is not the main focus.

 

[PletdeKoe]

I can fondly remember an interview with Kaz, about GT2. (Man I’m old…) He stated that there was no game with better car models than Gran Turismo. Tracks however, he admitted were done better, by Ridge Racer Type 4. I believe this has been the philosophy of Polyphony Digital from the start. Cars first, the rest later. So in that respect I think this will also apply to Gran Turismo 7.

 

[Jeanr]

Which game had that race?

The worst Gran Turismo for cars competing against each other when they shouldn’t, was Gran Turismo 2.

Yes, on GT2 things was a lot worst. I remember on GT4 still had some really weird grids, with Group C cars against LMP1, GTs, and sometimes a Chaparral or a Ford GT40. But cant remember the event. Some event for real circuits, something like this. Even today, on GT Sport, is still happens to put Group C cars against LMP1, hybrids and VGTs cars together at Gr.1.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.
Tracks? They often look poor, pretty basic, empty sceneries.

I'm guessing you're the kind of person who thinks every race track needs to have chevrons, an obnoxious amount of bright blue/pink/purple, hot air balloons, blimps, spotlights, confetti, pyro, gimmick boosting and a DJ wearing a silly hat. . .

 

[05XR8]

Not necessarily. Having a look at Project Cars 2, the environments look full. GT have always looked lonely. Racing for 2 laps or 24 hours in GT, doesn’t feel like a racing environment.

Daytona in GT doesn’t feel like a big event. Even that track is missing the atmosphere associated with that arena.

A location where I did feel some type of event atmosphere, is at Goodwood, in GT6. From the start line through to the finish, even thoug( I never been to Goodwood, I could feel that event’s vibe.

 

[Samus]

Nothing much you can do about real tracks, other than putting people in the stands and around the place. They are what they are. Fictional tracks they just seem to focus on single, big attractions rather than a whole rounded nice track to look at. Saint Croix and it's suspension bridge being the obvious one, with everything else being bland nothingness or tree walls. Tunnels being their other obvious favourite. With a blank canvas they can do better.

You can definitely overdo it with stuff like @Phaceless_Ph mentioned, but their older tracks, on the whole, just looked and felt more interesting and alive. I don't know if old designers left them, or if it's just because of the move to higher graphics.

 

[05XR8]

Nothing much you can do about real tracks, other than putting people in the stands and around the place. They are what they are. Fictional tracks they just seem to focus on single, big attractions rather than a whole rounded nice track to look at. Saint Croix and it's suspension bridge being the obvious one, with everything else being bland nothingness or tree walls. Tunnels being their other obvious favourite. With a blank canvas they can do better.

You can definitely overdo it with stuff like @Phaceless_Ph mentioned, but their older tracks, on the whole, just looked and felt more interesting and alive. I don't know if old designers left them, or if it's just because of the move to higher graphics.

The road surface and how the car interacts. Those would be major changes PD could make.

I notice, the way PD model bumps in cockpit, the driver doesn’t move. The whole screen moves. That’s why it feels like a disconnect with the road. Other games jostle the driver’s view. So, there’s a feeling of, say, dizzines or vertigo. Not anything massive, but a enough to impair vision for a moment and for the brain to register and adjust for correction. Just one of the factors why GT surfaces feel so smooth.

 

[o000o]

Yes, on GT2 things was a lot worst. I remember on GT4 still had some really weird grids, with Group C cars against LMP1, GTs, and sometimes a Chaparral or a Ford GT40. But cant remember the event. Some event for real circuits, something like this. Even today, on GT Sport, is still happens to put Group C cars against LMP1, hybrids and VGTs cars together at Gr.1.

In GT1 too, the Lantis frequently appeared alongside various race cars in racing events, and of course is always a loser that is left far behind.

Not necessarily. Having a look at Project Cars 2, the environments look full. GT have always looked lonely. Racing for 2 laps or 24 hours in GT, doesn’t feel like a racing environment.

Daytona in GT doesn’t feel like a big event. Even that track is missing the atmosphere associated with that arena.

A location where I did feel some type of event atmosphere, is at Goodwood, in GT6. From the start line through to the finish, even thoug( I never been to Goodwood, I could feel that event’s vibe.

Sometimes it's the games that exaggerate the atmosphere of the tracks or such compared to irl ones, while it can be more pleasing, it can be adding something that's not there..

 

[Dave A]

Yes, on GT2 things was a lot worst. I remember on GT4 still had some really weird grids, with Group C cars against LMP1, GTs, and sometimes a Chaparral or a Ford GT40. But cant remember the event. Some event for real circuits, something like this. Even today, on GT Sport, is still happens to put Group C cars against LMP1, hybrids and VGTs cars together at Gr.1.

Part of the charm of Gran Turismo is that you can race a Group C car against an LMP. I don't mind that per se, but I want the performance levels fo the cars to be correct. I don't mind there being more events themed on real events, so a Group C event and an seperate LMP focused event. But I also dont mind mixing it up a little.

What I meant by cars competing that shouldn't, was GT500 cars completing with GT1 cars and LMP cars etc. That was the case in GT2, there's a huge gulf in performance between a 99 GT500 Supra and the Toyoa GT-1 in real life, but you could beat a Toyora GT-1 in a GT500 car in GT2. That said, the performance of a lot of the cars in GT2 was wrong, the GT500 NISMO GT-R's for example had over 700bhp and were 4wd. So that contributed massively to that.

But if the cars performance in the game is accurate enough, then in a lot of cases you'll have a natural divide preventing certain types of cars competing with others short of aditional tuning options etc.

In GT1 too, the Lantis frequently appeared alongside various race cars in racing events, and of course is always a loser that is left far behind.

Yes, a race modded Lantis would show up in the GT World Championship, and it was guarenteed to finish last every time

 

[05XR8]

In GT1 too, the Lantis frequently appeared alongside various race cars in racing events, and of course is always a loser that is left far behind.

Sometimes it's the games that exaggerate the atmosphere of the tracks or such compared to irl ones, while it can be more pleasing, it can be adding something that's not there..

Sometimes, but I think Forza 6(?) has the Ferris wheel changing colors and I can’t recall seeing that in GT6. GTS and ACC don’t model the roller coaster being active at NurbGP, but the atmosphere feels different. I did really like how PD have the teams climb/line the fences at the finish of a race. That’s an awesome inclusion. More of that.

The trains and monorail at Tokyo are okay. There’s a raptor at Fuji. A little gem, but I can’t recall flags waving in the crowd, when using the Super GT cars. I’d prefer that over a bird.
Some players care about how trees look. I care about overall atmosphere and trackside details that add to my immersion.

 

[Imari]

If GT was simulating as much as Forza, it would probably look as nice.

Ah good, another industry insider. Please give us specifics on how much GT is simulating, and how much Forza is simulating so that we can compare. That sounds like good information to have.

I'm guessing you're the kind of person who thinks every race track needs to have chevrons, an obnoxious amount of bright blue/pink/purple, hot air balloons, blimps, spotlights, confetti, pyro, gimmick boosting and a DJ wearing a silly hat. . .

Not at all, but if you've ever been to an actual major motorsports event you can't have missed that they tend to be a bit more involved than what shows on Polyphony's tracks. GT tracks typically look like a weekend arrive-and-drive, which is appropriate sometimes but less so when the game is telling you that you're racing in an international championship series.

Also, it's a video game. Erring on the side of exciting and engaging isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[Shakengandulf]

Ah good, another industry insider. Please give us specifics on how much GT is simulating, and how much Forza is simulating so that we can compare. That sounds like good information to have.

Not at all, but if you've ever been to an actual major motorsports event you can't have missed that they tend to be a bit more involved than what shows on Polyphony's tracks. GT tracks typically look like a weekend arrive-and-drive, which is appropriate sometimes but less so when the game is telling you that you're racing in an international championship series.

Also, it's a video game. Erring on the side of exciting and engaging isn't the worst thing in the world.

You think an arcade game is simulating more?
But yeah you're right, im not an industry insider like you say.

Calm down, you can get ya point across without sounding like a dick.

 

[DefNotJake]

I know it's a 60 fps sim but when I look at FH5, it's so much more impressive IMO.
Car models? Excellent, probably the best in a videogame.

I love Forza Horizon, but this isn't true at all.

 

[Shakengandulf]

I love Forza Horizon, but this isn't true at all.

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I honestly cant wait to see comparisons between GT7 and Sport.
Im always excited by the slightest improvement. Whether its more detailed textures, shaders.. polygons.
World accuracy especially gets my attention, seeing how close the visuals get to real life.

Gran Turismo Sport has fantastic interiors, car models.
But the track visuals has always been hit n miss, i think bathurst looks the worst.

 

[queleuleu]

I love Forza Horizon, but this isn't true at all.

View attachment 1090926

View attachment 1090925

I meant the best car models are in GT. The difference in terms of details between cars and original tracks are too big IMO.