New McLaren Super Car: No Longer Just a Rumor

Haha well that is typical Clarkson - this one car does everything better but I still want that one more - its the sort of thing that has made him a very popular tv host.
 
TheFlyingKiwi
I agree with him though. The McLaren is no doubt the faster car but isn't nicer to drive. I feel the same in gt5. That power and lightness just don't feel as nice as they would do. Whereas the fezza is so much nicer.
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I don't think the GT5 version of the MP4-12c has anything in any way to do with resembling the real life car. The car in real life is known to be one of the best handling and fastest road cars on the road. Its a conclusion by every test that the car is incredible. The GT5 version sounds nothing like the real car, is slow and is very difficult to drive, the only thing in common is the way it looks.


The reason people still like the 458 more is due to the looks, the sound of the engine and the general feeling/vibe/quality to the Ferrari.
 
Bigbazz
I don't think the GT5 version of the MP4-12c has anything in any way to do with resembling the real life car. The car in real life is known to be one of the best handling and fastest road cars on the road. Its a conclusion by every test that the car is incredible. The GT5 version sounds nothing like the real car, is slow and is very difficult to drive, the only thing in common is the way it looks.


The reason people still like the 458 more is due to the looks, the sound of the engine and the general feeling/vibe/quality to the Ferrari.
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Oh yeah IRL the McLaren is no doubt the better car, definately faster around a track than the 458, but the other parts of a super car, the feel the look and sound are all in the Fezza's favour. Thats what i like about Ferrari's is that they have that warm blooded feel, as if it is meant to be a great car and not forced to be a great car like the Macca. The Macca is just a bunch of science and maths and no real soul. ITs more of a super sports car like a Porsche 911 Turbo than a full on Supercar like the Italia.

P.s. I understand that the driving mechanics may be out of line in GT5 but why oh why does the MP4 sound like a dog whistle.
 
TheFlyingKiwi
Oh yeah IRL the McLaren is no doubt the better car, definately faster around a track than the 458, but the other parts of a super car, the feel the look and sound are all in the Fezza's favour. Thats what i like about Ferrari's is that they have that warm blooded feel, as if it is meant to be a great car and not forced to be a great car like the Macca. The Macca is just a bunch of science and maths and no real soul. ITs more of a super sports car like a Porsche 911 Turbo than a full on Supercar like the Italia.

P.s. I understand that the driving mechanics may be out of line in GT5 but why oh why does the MP4 sound like a dog whistle.
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With what you say i have to agree because 2 years or so ago the Ferrari 458 was the exact same thing, it was a product of science and technology put into a flashy looking case, the Mclaren is essencially the same thing only taking things further as is the way with how technology develops.

I really like this new Mclaren, I am also a massive fan of the Ferrari 458 but personally I think these cars are very much the same thing. They are very similarly shaped, similar performance and they are both based on the same concept of technology and science in supercars (a bit like the Nissan GT-R in some ways), everything about the two cars shows they are perfect rivals.


Which one would i choose? I really don't know.
 
Bigbazz
With what you say i have to agree because 2 years or so ago the Ferrari 458 was the exact same thing, it was a product of science and technology put into a flashy looking case, the Mclaren is essencially the same thing only taking things further as is the way with how technology develops.

I really like this new Mclaren, I am also a massive fan of the Ferrari 458 but personally I think these cars are very much the same thing. They are very similarly shaped, similar performance and they are both based on the same concept of technology and science in supercars (a bit like the Nissan GT-R in some ways), everything about the two cars shows they are perfect rivals.

Which one would i choose? I really don't know.
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It's a bit like choosing between your own children really. They are so perfectly similar. Quite like the F1 cars. Too be honest I have to say that the McLaren is better than the Ferrari and being a Kiwi I should defend the Macca to the edges of outer space but I don't. I still love the Ferrari more.
To me technology in cars is like putting bread and jam together. It's perfect so long as people who aren't allergic to berries get to drive it. I'm not allergic. I love tech, it's why I believe that when Clarkson reviewed the 599 on the telly he got it wrong saying the car was soulless. It's the new heart of supercars. The new soul the change and we have to change with it.
So bringing me back to the 458 and MP4 I believe both have souls and are brilliant just that the Italia is more soulful and human than the Macca.
 
TheFlyingKiwi
Thats what i like about Ferrari's is that they have that warm blooded feel, as if it is meant to be a great car and not forced to be a great car like the Macca. The Macca is just a bunch of science and maths and no real soul. ITs more of a super sports car like a Porsche 911 Turbo than a full on Supercar like the Italia.

P.s. I understand that the driving mechanics may be out of line in GT5 but why oh why does the MP4 sound like a dog whistle.
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Well, it seems like you don`t know alot about Ron Dennis Mclaren. You just need to take a look at the F1 team, to understand that Ron`s Mclaren is entirely different from Ferrari.
For him, its all about sience, technology, engineering, being always a step ahead of others. Just look at the F1 team, those guys aren`t just copying the Red Bulls like every other F1 team (especially Ferrari), no they are going down there own route and bringing up innovations like the F-Duct, L-shaped sidepods (ok, they were used few times in the past again, but without success), the "octopus" exhaust (sadly, the FIA banned the material they wanted to use for it). Fair play & innovation & competition, thats Mclaren for me.
Mclaren has atleast as much passion as Lamborghini etc! I would take this car in chrome/rocket red (like Mclarens F1 cars) above those show off cars anyday.
 
But Ben Collins is still an idiot, even when he's not The Stig apparently. I've been complaining about his driving for years, just look at the way he powerslides the SLS AMG all over the place. Just because it's easier to drift that doesn't make it the fastest way. Sure the Merc would still have lost, but Collins needs to learn to drive in a manner that gives all cars an equal chance, because he only seems to have one driving style and if the car he's driving suits it then happy happy joy joy.
 
Er yeah he didn't really drift it that much. However it would've been hilarious if they put him in the white suit...
 
Paulie
But Ben Collins is still an idiot, even when he's not The Stig apparently. I've been complaining about his driving for years, just look at the way he powerslides the SLS AMG all over the place. Just because it's easier to drift that doesn't make it the fastest way. Sure the Merc would still have lost, but Collins needs to learn to drive in a manner that gives all cars an equal chance, because he only seems to have one driving style and if the car he's driving suits it then happy happy joy joy.
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He was better off being The Stig. Because then his opinion never mattered and he never had to open his mouth.
 
Rotary Junkie
He was better off being The Stig. Because then his opinion never mattered and he never had to open his mouth.
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Err, hang on. If he's a car person like us, which I suspect he is [sarcasm]for no particular reason[/sarcasm], then being the Stig would be a nightmare because all car people want to voice their opinions and tell people what's for.:lol:
 
Paulie
But Ben Collins is still an idiot, even when he's not The Stig apparently. I've been complaining about his driving for years, just look at the way he powerslides the SLS AMG all over the place. Just because it's easier to drift that doesn't make it the fastest way. Sure the Merc would still have lost, but Collins needs to learn to drive in a manner that gives all cars an equal chance, because he only seems to have one driving style and if the car he's driving suits it then happy happy joy joy.
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Doesn't necessarily follow that the external footage is footage of his fastest lap. During the post-lap interview you see the in car shots with what looks to be a tidier run through the hairpin.

It might also just be the best way to extract a quick time in that particular car. It is a front-engined car where as the others are all mid or rear engined. The extra weight over the rear tyres on the mid/rear cars will improve traction in slower turns.
 
I'd like to think he did a tidier fastest lap, but if his Top Gear efforts are anything to go buy....then no, he's always been terrible with high powered front engined cars.
 
Paulie
I'd like to think he did a tidier fastest lap, but if his Top Gear efforts are anything to go buy....then no, he's always been terrible with high powered front engined cars.
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In fairness he's driving high powered cars on road tyres on most likely a less than ideal surface. There's always going to be sliding.
 
Paulie
I'd like to think he did a tidier fastest lap, but if his Top Gear efforts are anything to go buy....then no, he's always been terrible with high powered front engined cars.
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It's the same with the Top Gear laps too. The lap you see televised as the 'quick lap' probably isn't that lap at all, it's likely to be a compilation of the best bits from other laps. Your average TG lap has 9 separate camera locations. I doubt the BBC would fork out for that many for such a show. I'd guess that they'll have a small team of cameramen who'll move to different locations whilst the Stig does his laps, shoting sections of the lap then moving on.
 
TheCracker
It's the same with the Top Gear laps too. The lap you see televised as the 'quick lap' probably isn't that lap at all, it's likely to be a compilation of the best bits from other laps. Your average TG lap has 9 separate camera locations. I doubt the BBC would fork out for that many for such a show. I'd guess that they'll have a small team of cameramen who'll move to different locations whilst the Stig does his laps, shoting sections of the lap then moving on.
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Right, because the cost of 9 good cameras puts any sort of a dent in the show's usual spending.
 
Rotary Junkie
Right, because the cost of 9 good cameras puts any sort of a dent in the show's usual spending.
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We might get another show where Clarkson travels to Australia and Taiwan to try find a metaphor for a Beemer when they're trying to save money....:dopey:
 
Rotary Junkie
Right, because the cost of 9 good cameras puts any sort of a dent in the show's usual spending.
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And hire cameramen too.

But that's not the point. Why hire all those men and equipment for two minutes of film when there's absolutely no reason to do so?
 
Just read the EVO supercar test of the MP12 vs 458, 997 Turbo S, Noble M600, SLS & Ford GT.

The Macca gets less than a rave review.

Priased for it's outright pace, ride comfort and everyday usability.

Criticised for it's lack of driver interaction, brakes & initial steering feel on turn in.

Have to say I'm a little surprised.
 
That's two magazine reviews that slated the Macca... and showed it to be not quite as quick as the 458.

I'm starting to see that the insane understeer and poor steering in GT5 have some basis in real life... :lol:
 
The Macca does have better straight line performance... 0-60 mph 3.0s (vs 3.2s) and 0-100 mph 6.4s (vs 6.9s). And on normal roads they said it was significantly faster than the 458... BUT, the driving experience just wasn't there.

The EVO test doesn't mention understeer in relation to the track times... more that it just doesn't change direction as quickly as the 458.
 
Probably the same... if the car takes too long to change direction, that could appear to be understeer in-game... where it does appear to take a bit of time to respond.

It should be faster in a straight line... turbo'd. Quick-shifting automatic. It's a shame, it seems, that they didn't manage to make it as keen as previous McLaren road cars according to testers.

Could be mostly the tires, though...
 
Well, what can I say? I was all confident that the Macca with it's torquey engine and superior power, coupled to the extremely light body would completely blitz the Fezza on any track. It's looking like the 458 really is one of the all time greats as Clarkson once said, if the Macca can't beat the Ferrari at the track, it can't beat anywhere else ( other than the motorway ).

Hopefully, the next reviews will shed some more light on it's capabilities but for now, I'm left alone with the Ferrari posing as the faster of the two in my mind.
 
Stotty
Just read the EVO supercar test of the MP12 vs 458, 997 Turbo S, Noble M600, SLS & Ford GT.

The Macca gets less than a rave review.

Priased for it's outright pace, ride comfort and everyday usability.

Criticised for it's lack of driver interaction, brakes & initial steering feel on turn in.

Have to say I'm a little surprised.
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Car Magazine came to a pretty similar conclusion with it, iirc.

They did a test between the MP4, 458, 911 GT2, G. Performante (Spyder), R8 V10, & SLS.

The 458 & GT2 were 1:28s, the Lambo. was pretty much equal with the MP4 w/ around a .20 difference ahead of the McLaren, then came the Audi & SLS respectively.
 

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