New McLaren Super Car: No Longer Just a Rumor

Can't wait for the Stig to try this McLaren :P

you guys have a guess on the time around the TG track?
where will it be on the chart?
 
One of the many things that attracts me in this car, is that it is 100% McLaren, no outsourced engine, no outsourced styling. This is just pure and affordable McLaren divinity. Awesome.
 
Hamilton is going to be testing, or at least talking about the MP4-12c on tomorrow night's Fifth Gear episode.

Also, had a fun time playing with the configurator a few days back with a mate who is actually deciding between buying an MP4-12c or a 458. At 26 years old. Bloody bankers. :(

I think the 458 is in the show too although it's only half an hour long.

Can I be friends with your friend :D
 
That configurator was fun to play with for 15 minutes. Made one completely black & carbon fibre, black interior with IRIS upgrade, the only thing not black is the red brake calipers. :D
 
Some new MP4-12C photos.

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Coolest looking brake system I've seen in a while! 👍

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It's a shame they didn't bring back the central driver position from the F1. 3-seater supercar FTW.

Does this mean they are going to make both left and right hand drive versions?
 
I think they're making a model above and below this one (performance and probably price wise).

Maybe they'll bring it back for the more expensive one? I hope GT5 will let you download updates of upcoming cars like the ones McLaren have in store for us!
 


MP412c at Goodwood.

Never really thought about it... but damn, does the car sound sexy for having a turbocharged engine! And here, you can hear it without having some annoying soundtrack covering it up. Listening to the first part of this clip, I actually thought I was listening to a naturally aspirated V8!
 
Not much news on the new Macca for a looong time, but I just read a cryptic piece on Autocar that states the 0-100 time is 6.1s... for perspective, the F1 managed 6.3 and a Veyron 5.5.

Bodes well for outright performance.
 
If GT5 power figures for the baby Macca are to be believed, this baby puts out almost 600bhp and a lot more torque than the F1, 6.1s sounds plausible.
 
If we believe GT5, it also steers like a city bus. :lol:

Same problem with the GT-R Proto in GT4, though. Might be PD got hold of a rough prototype for instrumented testing and data gathering?
 
I was just about to post those very two links. I trust the opinion of Chris Harris so if he says it's the muts nuts then it must be good.
 
I was just about to post those very two links. I trust the opinion of Chris Harris so if he says it's the muts nuts then it must be good.

We just beat you to it than Neal... :sly:

Yeah i also trust Chris,and sadly also agree that this car is a bit "cold" in its looks....as it is a supercar,i would have loved it to have more extreme supercar looks, i mean it looks good,but for me its surely not a jawdropper in any way...

But am sure its absolutaly fantastic to drive... 👍




spy.
 
Damn work got in the way ;)

I think most people agree, myself included, it looks a bit too generic and not swish enough but it was Ron's intention for it to be timeless so that it wouldn't date in a few years which is a quality of the F1 even though it does look more special than the 12C. I think the decision to keep it understated will pay off as I'm sure there are many potential buyers that would rather have something like this than a flamboyant Ferrari or Lambo that makes them look like a massive "door handle" so they can use it every day without being hated worse the BMW X1 drivers especially in these austere times.

Hopefully the more expensive and true successor to the F1 will be a lot more exciting whenever they decide to show it.

EDIT: Have an official video

 
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First impressions from Autocar... I believe the first Magazine to get a ride and publish their thoughts... sounds like it's spectacularly good!

Test date 08 February 2011 Price as tested £168,500

What is it?
The MP4-12C is no less than McLaren Automotive’s brand new answer to the Ferrari 458 Italia, and quite some car it is too.

Priced to rival the 458 head on (it costs £168,500 whereas the 458 comes in at £169,545), yet toting more power, more performance and even greater technical sophistication than its nemesis from Maranello, the 12C is without question Britain’s most exciting new supercar.

It’s also one of the fastest cars ever to be offered for use on the public road, with a claimed 0-60mph time of 3.1sec, 0-100mph in 6.1sec and a top speed of 205mph.

At the centre of the 12C sits a full carbonfibre tub, and that alone makes it different from, and theoretically superior to, any other rival at similar money. But it’s the car’s suspension that’s perhaps the most ground breaking. It features double wishbones and coil springs but no traditional anti-roll bars as such, and instead uses hydraulics and active dampers to provide its control. This system, claims McLaren, provides the 12C with as much as 25 per cent more grip than conventionally suspended rivals.

The 12C’s 3.8-litre twin turbo V8 engine was developed jointly by McLaren and Worthing-based Riccardo Engineering, and it develops a thumping 592bhp at 7000rpm and an arguably even more impressive 442lb ft right the way from 3000-7000rpm. To this is mated a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox (made by Graziano), which features a 'Pre-Cog' selection mechanism that shifts gear faster and more smoothly than in rival systems.

All up the 12C weighs just 1301kg when dry and when specified with the lighter of the two alloy wheel designs. That gives it a kerb weight with a full tank of fuel and all its fluids of a whisker over 1400kg, which is at least 50kg lighter than the 458 (although in reality it’s nearer 100kg if you specify the two cars like for like). Braking is provided by huge steel ventilated discs front and rear, and also by an Air Brake system that deploys only when the car’s sensors detect that a really big stop is required. Carbon ceramic discs can be specified as an option.

What’s it like?
In a word, incredible. And very, very fast indeed. There are all sorts of elements that define the 12C dynamically and elevate it above its already esteemed competition, but the ride, handling and above all else the performance are probably the stand-out features.

The first time I put my foot down and held it there properly, the level of thrust that was unleashed through the rear tyres came genuinely and sincerely as a shock. It starts from the moment you nail the throttle at anything beyond 1500rpm, even in fourth gear, and by 3000rpm you can already feel your organs being squeezed hard into the seat.

From there until the cut out at 8500rpm there is then just a vast, constant wave of energy that catapults the 12C forwards – with more conviction than any road car you can ever remember this side of a Bugatti Veyron. Including the legendary F1. And the numbers would appear to support this impression, too; in all three acceleration disciplines – 0-60mph, 0-100mph and standing quarter mile – the 12C is faster than the McLaren F1. Only on top speed does the legendary old timer have the measure of the new car.

And then there’s the noise it makes, which, at a steady 3000rpm/seventh gear cruise is virtually non-existent, but which at 8000rpm in third gear is brain-bendingly loud. Not quite in 458 Italia territory for sheer volume or quality of sound, perhaps, but not far off.

On the road you don’t need to go berserk in the 12C to realise how quick it really is, and it’s the torque that makes it feel so effortless. Even at half throttle it provides enough acceleration to leave most other cars reeling in its wake. And at full throttle it feels quite magical in the way it picks up and hurls itself down the road.

And that’s before you so much as mention the 12C’s handling, ride, steering and braking capabilities, all of which are perhaps more extraordinary still than the straight-line speed. There’s so much grip and such a high level of dynamic composure to the car that you really need to drive it on a circuit to get anywhere near its towering limits. Which is precisely what McLaren allowed us to do at Portimao in Portugal, albeit for a few brief laps.

What’s most spooky about the 12C’s chassis is the lack of inertia it suffers from. The nose snaps to attention and glues itself on to the apex of whichever kind of corner you aim it at (and at seemingly any speed). And the rest of the car then just seems to follow.

Yet despite the urgency of its responses there’s nothing remotely neurotic in the way the 12C behaves. There are no spikes in its behaviour, no sharp edges to its handling. So while it feels nailed to the ground through any given corner, it doesn’t feel nervous or scary to go with it.

And that, apparently, was one of the key remits when designing not just the chassis but the car’s whole dynamic personality; it had to be quick with a capital F in terms of response, but at the same time approachable and friendly near the limit, and supremely comfortable as well. It’s a job more than well done on this evidence.

Should I buy one?
If you’re in the fortunate position of being in the market for this kind of car then the choice has just become a whole lot broader, and the decision process has become harder to make at the same time. Yet there can be no doubt that what McLaren has produced in the 12C has taken the game so far forwards – dynamically if not aesthetically – that you’d be either foolish or very stubborn in your ways indeed not to at least give it a try.

And if you are seriously in the market, and you do then go for a proper drive in the 12C, you will be hooked. Instantly. And you’ll never look at the Ferrari 458 or Lamborghini Gallardo in the same light ever again. So don’t say you haven’t been warned…

Steve Sutcliffe



EDIT... and more praise from EVO...

What is it?

The new McLaren MP4-12C, rival to the Ferrari 458 Italia, offspring of Ron Dennis. It costs £168,500, so is cheaper than the Ferrari, too.

Technical highlights?

No roll bars, no LSD, hydraulically supported and connected suspension, adaptive dampers, a little under 600bhp, 1301kg dry, carbon tub, optional ceramic brakes, brake assist, twin turbochargers. More technology than we’ve ever seen in a sports car before.

What’s it like to drive?

Unlike any other sports car because it separates the roles of ride and roll-stiffness. On a straight, bumpy road, it’s more comfortable than a Merc E-Class, change direction and it’s sharper than a GT3. There are 3 chassis modes: comfort, sport and track which bring increased roll-stiffness and more relaxed intervention from the ESP. The powertrain is remarkable in its strength and ease-of-use: the MP4 is noticeably quicker than a 458, doesn’t feel that turbocharged and makes a great noise. Crucially, you can separate the chassis functions from the powertrain (again, comfort, sport and track) so it’s possible to have sharp throttle response and faster gearshifts, with supple suspension. It is the most talented machine I have ever driven.

How does it compare?

To what? I mean can you think of an obvious rival? Only kidding – it’s faster than a Ferrari 458 Italia, has more useable performance, rides better, has more mechanical grip and is much, much more useable.

Anything else I should know?

Yes - that no one understands the emotional side to these machines like Ferrari does, and the MP4-12C, for all its brilliance, serves as a reminder. It’s not unemotional, it sounds great in ‘track’ mode, it steers beautifully and its engineering is intriguing – but it is a car you admire deeply rather than one you sell your family to own. As you can tell, I need more space to tell this story…

Chris Harris
 
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Solid reviews, it seems to have made quite the impression. It really is the cutting edge machine I was expecting.

:drool:
 
Another gushing review...

Car Magazine[/quote
McLaren MP4-12C supercar CAR review

Car Magazine Video Review

Seventeen years after the iconic McLaren F1 made every other supercar redundant, McLaren is back with a new car: the long-awaited McLaren MP4-12C. Here’s a taste of what it’s like, but for our full review get yourself a copy of the March 2011 issue of CAR Magazine, which is on sale on Tuesday.

For the benefit of that one moon dweller reading, just remind us why the McLaren MP4-12C is so special
Where to start? The 12C is the first proper McLaren sports car since the seminal F1 of 1994 (the iffy SLR was Mercedes' idea); it costs an almost reasonable £168,500 yet is constructed around a carbon chassis that is normally reserved for cars costing twice as much; it runs on a sophisticated hydraulic suspension set-up and is powered by a brand new McLaren-designed V8 engine and dual-clutch gearbox.

Oh, and the McLaren MP4-12C's vital statistics are 592bhp, 443lb ft and 1434kg. Remember that the McLaren's target - the Ferrari 458 Italia - makes do with 562bhp, 398lb ft and weighs 1485kg.

So the 12C weighs less than a Ferrari 458, has more power and a stack more torque. I think I can guess where this is heading...
Into the distance in short order is where. The McLaren does 62mph in 3.3sec (or 3.1sec with the optional sticky Pirelli Corsa rubber) and the Ferrari 3.4sec. But by the time they get to 124mph (200km/h), the 12C has pulled out a 1.3sec (1.5sec on the Corsas) lead, claims McLaren.

On the road though, the gap feels even greater. Don’t get us wrong, the Ferrari 458 is a stupendously quick car, but the McLaren’s kick in the back comes in so much lower down that it feels more urgent on the road when you see a gap and just need to stomp on the right pedal.

Stomping on the middle pedal elicits a similar shock to the body, by the way. Both the standard cast iron stoppers and the optional (and even more deccelerative) carbon rotors feel great and help the 12C outbrake a 458.

But I’ll bet those twin blowers mean the new McLaren supercar sounds like a Lexus LS460, and has the throttle response and rev range of a black cab?
That’s exactly what we feared beforehand, but McLaren proved us wrong on both counts. The crisp throttle response, almost total absence of lag and incredible 8500rpm redline is all down to clever matching of the ECU mapping and turbo geometry, McLaren says.

The mixture of intake and exhaust noise is nigh on perfect: unobtrusive when cruising but capable of erecting those neck hairs as well as any naturally aspirated supercar. And unlike the Ferrari’s rather wearing quiet-LOUD-quiet-LOUD character, the transition from demure to demonic is more progressive on the McLaren. This is all on the standard exhaust too. Heaven knows how juicy the optional straight-though sports pipes must sound.

But what about the handling? The SLR wasn’t exactly praised for its dynamic abilities – is the McLaren 12C similarly disappointing? Does the hydraulic roll control work?
It works brilliantly. By tweaking a dash dial between Normal, Sport and Track you can alter the system pressure, so altering the amount of roll and ride comfort. Drive it in Normal on the road and the ride is better than some saloon cars’, thanks to a well controlled but loping gait. Track mode is too stiff for the road but, as its name suggests, is ideal for the circuit where it gives the car huge stability. Sport’s blend of suppleness and body control though, makes it the best all round mode.

Equally impressive is what McLaren calls Brake Steer, an ESP-based system inspired by a technology banned in F1 over a decade ago. It brakes the inside wheel when cornering to help the car turn into a bend, killing understeer. Steer into the corner using the ultra-precise electro-hydraulically-assisted steering and you can really feel the car pivot as the brake steer works. Its other purpose is to take the place of the heavy active differentials rivals like Ferrari are using.

There is really only one disappointment but you’ll have to be a pretty tasty driver, and probably on a track to experience it. And it’s that even in Track mode, the ESP system doesn’t allow an inordinate amount of slip and will be reined in even further for production. If you want to switch it off, you need to enter some special cheat code while parked that McLaren wouldn’t reveal.

Now away from sideways-obsessed car media, that may not be relevant, but surely if you do want to really play about, it’d make more sense to be able to do it with some sort of safety net available rather than risking everything by switching it all off.

So it’s a bit of a demon in a straight line and around corners. Any other tricks up the McLaren MP4-12C's sleeve?
What, you mean besides the incredible visibility and surprisingly easy-access semi-gullwing doors that make the prospect of using it every day absolutely realistic? Or the 24mpg it achieves on the combined cycle while emitting just 279g/km of CO2?

What about the styling though? I’m not convinced...
Our only real disappointment concerns the way the new McLaren supercar looks. It’s certainly not ugly, in fact it’s quite pretty. But it’s not especially dramatic. When Leonard Setright first used the term supercar in CAR Magazine over 40 years ago it was because he needed a term to convey how much more extreme the Lamborghini Miura he was driving was than other sports cars. Not just in performance, but in every respect, including visual drama.

In the 12C’s defence, style is very much down to personal taste, and I should add that it looks much more assertive in the metal. Especially in the orange of our test car (the silver car looked way more subdued).

McLaren MP4-12C: the road test verdict
Quite simply, this is the most complete supercar the world has ever seen. Quicker than a McLaren F1, easier to live with than an Audi R8 and more economical than a BMW M3, it rides like an executive saloon when you’re not in the mood but thrills like any supercar should when you are.

To read the full 15-page story, grab a copy of the March 2011 issue of CAR. We've analysed it in full detail, got stacks of scintillating photography and grabbed a hot lap with F1 McLaren driver Jenson Button. Don't miss it!
 
I don't know why in that bright orange it looks like a conservative car trying to be brash and outrageous, but in silver it just looks right.

The styling is the only thing that lets it down from the sound of it though, and hey Ferrari got away with drab looking cars for close to 25 years.
 
This is a car that's really grown on me.

I'm not a fan of modern Ferrari's, finding them too flash/loud, but my first impressions of the McLaren were the opposite... just a bit plain. For me, the R8 was always the best all rounder of the mid engined 'supercars'.

But living very close to the McLaren technical centre in Surrey means I get to see them on an almost daily basis, and the more of them I've seen the more I'm coming to appreciate the neatness and understated looks. And I'm minded to agree with bigyospec, in that the ones that have looked good to my eyes have been in quite sedate colours... black, silver, greys.
 
I drive passed the Ford/Jaguar/Land Rover factory on the way to work so get to see Freelanders on a daily basis :indiff: ...I did see an Evoque last week though.


Monkey has thoughts and writes them down...

EVO.com
CHRIS HARRIS: FURTHER THOUGHTS ON THE MCLAREN MP4-12

Cold, clinical, unemotional.

You’re going to hear and read these words used a lot in association with the new McLaren MP4-12C. This is not a car that wears its heart anywhere near its sleeve: it’s a towering piece of engineering that requires time and a multitude of conditions to reveal the complexities of its brilliance. In many ways then, it is the anti-supercar, because a supercar by definition is a binary creature; something that exists on a solitary, self-indulgent, look-at-the-bulge-in-my-trousers level.

Is the Macca better than a 458? I suppose technically it does things the Ferrari cannot do – it offers a blend of ride and handling never before witnessed in this type of car. It is also faster than the Ferrari – in fact even though I was stunned by the chassis’ spread of abilities, I was even more shocked by just how bloody fast it was. Hitting 124mph in 8.9sec from rest makes a travesty of the supposed opposition. But that doesn’t make it the greater car of the two, and I for one am not willing to be drawn much further into that discussion until I’ve driven both on the same road, the same track and had a chance to digest the results.

Understandably, everyone wants to know the outcome of 458 v Macca, but for me there’s an even more interesting story emerging here: one that deconstructs the role of this type of car. Once we’ve decided which one wins the group test, the internet-scuffles have abated and I’m choking on an MX-5 what I want to know is how people propose to use cars like the MP4-12C and 458. I think they question the nature of the ‘occasional’ sports car because they’re so damn good at being used all-the-time. Well, certainly the McLaren is.

The progression of the super-sports-car in recent years has been startling. Three years ago the benchmark mid-engined toy was a Ferrari 430 -1450kg of aluminium monocoque with 483bhp, two-stage dampers and a pretty ropey robotised paddle-shifter. The MP4-12C has 592bhp, its carbon tub contributes to a weight of 1336kg and it has a double-clutch gearbox. Its performance potential is in a different reality to the 430. Never forget that the Ferrari Daytona was launched in 1968, yet in 1980 it was still one of the fastest cars in the world. In other words, right now we’re seeing unprecedented advances in vehicle performance.

That the McLaren is an entirely useable everyday car is both undeniable and testament to the skill of the engineers behind it – but is it what this type of car should be? If you spend the week in an Audi A8, in your weekend toy do you want to change gear yourself or pull a paddle? You know what I’m getting at here – to me it feels like we’re right at the tipping-point in the driver/machine relationship. The current prerogative is very much engineering-lead; the language of communication is numerical, everything is faster, grippier, better. But where does the driver fit-in? Where does this development process take us?

It’s fascinating to watch the developing Ferrari/McLaren rivalry, it’s a privilege to drive these cars, but I for one hope that the driver will always be considered as something more than simply the operator of a set of electronic systems - because driving is the thing that draws us into this strange world of car-lust in the first place. As a sports-car manufacturer, if you forget that, you become the purveyor of three-dimensional arcade games which offer the potential for life-changing bills.

So I can’t tell you if the Macca beats the 458, but I can tell you that, great though they both are - sitting here right now - I suspect I would rather have an F40 than either.
 
Monkey has thoughts and writes them down...

That the McLaren is an entirely useable everyday car is both undeniable and testament to the skill of the engineers behind it – but is it what this type of car should be? If you spend the week in an Audi A8, in your weekend toy do you want to change gear yourself or pull a paddle? You know what I’m getting at here – to me it feels like we’re right at the tipping-point in the driver/machine relationship. The current prerogative is very much engineering-lead; the language of communication is numerical, everything is faster, grippier, better. But where does the driver fit-in? Where does this development process take us?

It’s fascinating to watch the developing Ferrari/McLaren rivalry, it’s a privilege to drive these cars, but I for one hope that the driver will always be considered as something more than simply the operator of a set of electronic systems - because driving is the thing that draws us into this strange world of car-lust in the first place. As a sports-car manufacturer, if you forget that, you become the purveyor of three-dimensional arcade games which offer the potential for life-changing bills.

I could not agree more with Chris here (by far and away my favorite motoring journo of the current crop).

It's a theme he's written on a few times in EVO over the past months... carefully challenging the way cars that should be primarily enjoyable to drive are gradually being electronicised to the point where the driver is an add on rather than the primary focus.

It's why the GT3RS beat the 458 in both Autocar and EVO's 2010 car of the year feautures. Even though the 458 is faster, handles better, rides better, has a better interior etc etc, the GT3RS just offers a more rewarding experience for the enthusiast driver.

And this for me is the essential point... all these cars are now so incredibly fast that the outright performance differences are pretty much irrelevent. For example; if you're using even 50% of the potential of a regular 997 Carrera on public roads you're probably endagering yourself, your license and every other road user out there at the same time. Cars like the 458 and McLaren are so fast that if the average owner ever exceeded the grip limits they are most likely on their way to a massive accident and the only thing they'll need next is a wooden box.

The performance numbers are startling, the lap times will be incredible, yet they are merely numbers. How a car feels to drive (it's primary control weighting (particularly steering weight and feel) and it's adjustability on the throttle/brakes at the limit) that should be the important factors in a 'sports car' (I use 'sports car' generally to describe something that's primary purpose is to be enjoyable to drive).

Long live analogue ;)
 
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A few of my thoughts on the car:

- I still don't like the name, though apparently a clinical name now suits a clinical car. Strange parallels with the Nissan GT-R there now that it's dropped the "Skyline" tag - it's more of an engineering achievement but less of an emotionally-driven machine. Even the high-tech 458 is still the "Italia".

- The grey in Monkey's review above is the only colour I've yet seen that lifts the car beyond a fairly generic and bland design. I'd like to see the car in the same colour as the McLaren F1 cars.

- It definitely speaks highly of the car that Monkey likes it and he's not known to pull any punches (even though I'd disagree with his recent assertion that the MX-5 is, literally, "s**t" which seemed ever so slightly more designed to create a ruckus than it being accurate...) and my impression of his review was that it seemed like a scaled-up and tech-laden Lotus Elise, in that both handling and ride were spot on and the car did what you ask of it, with a bunch extra power and some electronic wizardry helping you along.

- And I agree with Stotty above. With opportunities to use such staggering performance so rare, supercars need something extra to make you feel special in the 99.9% of the time that you're not driving them flat out. I'm not sure the McLaren does that (unlike the old F1), and for that reason my money would be heading Porsche's way for a GT3 RS.
 
I would never put my money down for something that looks like a 90's kit car. It may well have some of the best engineering but that fact that it has clearly been styled by those very same boring and unimaginative engineers who did the innards its a huge turn off. Even the name screams 'blandness' in a kind of clinical sense.

Literally anything other than this for the same price would be more exciting to look at.

Robin.
 
This I think is the best competitor to Ferrari. Nothing I have ever seen has boasted the specs and price tag that beats Ferrari. I agree the name is stupid, it doesn't have the flow of the Italia and probably won't be as legendary of a name as the f1. The only problem I have with it is that it isn't a pretty car. Clarkson once said that when making a supercar you have the option to make any shape, why not make it beautiful? It's not ugly it looks good but isn't breathtaking. I know that McLaren say that it isn't styled because
McLaren's aren't supposed to be but I don't like the shape. However it does apparently go like a rocket and sounds really good. Like a rhino in a Norwegian tunnel. I look forward to the reviews.
 
This I think is the best competitor to Ferrari. Nothing I have ever seen has boasted the specs and price tag that beats Ferrari. I agree the name is stupid, it doesn't have the flow of the Italia and probably won't be as legendary of a name as the f1. The only problem I have with it is that it isn't a pretty car. Clarkson once said that when making a supercar you have the option to make any shape, why not make it beautiful? It's not ugly it looks good but isn't breathtaking. I know that McLaren say that it isn't styled because
McLaren's aren't supposed to be but I don't like the shape. However it does apparently go like a rocket and sounds really good. Like a rhino in a Norwegian tunnel. I look forward to the reviews.

Clarkson also describes car engines as having torgues (plural) the man is an idiot :)

This car is the shape it is because it's the best combination or aerodynamics, structural rigidity, weight distribution and visibility possible.

Yes you can make a car any shape you want if you don't want it to achieve those goals but then McLaren aren't Alfa Romeo they are engineers.
 
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