New McLaren Super Car: No Longer Just a Rumor

It reminds me of a lotus/modena mix. meh, maybe there is something wrong with me but I just don't find it all that great

I guess it just stems from my love for the F1 and this just seems like a hollow shell of that :-/
 
Ascari..

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That was actually my first thought.
 
Say what you want about the the design, but at the end of the day the engine still kicks major ass.

The F458 will have to step behind this Mclaren.
 
They may well have started designing the car a long time ago but the end result looks a lot more like a Lotus or the new Ferrari than it does their own original prototype.
Not sure what you're looking at, but P11 looks very close to its original design. The front vents & grill are the only real major changes.
 
I was going to say I quite liked the rear...
More stylish than the front in my eyes.


I'd still have one, and I bet most of you would too

Oh, definitely. I'd give the rear a pass if they made that whole upper black part into tail lights on the sides. Everything from the red LED-strip and up should be part of the light housing.
 
[Re: Carbon-ceramic brakes]
It's actually the other way around.

Really? Most people would beg to differ.


Oh god, no. Mercedes screwed McLaren over when they were together. McLaren pretty much built the entire SLR, handling all the testing & what not themselves. Then Mercedes took the car & threw McLaren's name at the very end of model as if to say, "Oh btw, thanks!"

McLaren may have done a lot of the actual building, but Mercedes certainly had their hand in a lot of it. In fact, Gordon Murray is on record as having complained about using a supercharged engine and the automatic transmission (not to mention the ridiculous weight). He didn't even appear at the premiere. While Murray may be an arrogant blowhard, he certainly knows how to design a good car. When people say that the SLR is "not McLaren's best", you can be sure it's not Murray's fault.



More on topic: the car is definitely generic-looking, but that may be irrelevant if the car drives well. It looks good, just not terribly unique or interesting. Almost the Civic of supercars.
 
But is it really supposed to be a successor to the F1? I don't even know if that was their intention in the first place...
It'll be labeled the successor becomes it comes after it, but in truth, it isn't. The F1 set out to be an all-out driver's car. The MP4-12C is set to be more of competitor to Ferrari & Porsche.
 
Right. McLaren say they will be building a car positioned above this car and another positioned below. I'd imagine that the more capable of the two will be the "true successor" or whatever they want to call it to the F1.
 
The F1 set out to be an all-out driver's car. The MP4-12C is set to be more of competitor to Ferrari & Porsche.

That kind of sounds like Ferrari and Porsche are not in the business of trying to make 'all-out driver's" cars - something which I find hard to believe.
 
Did you read the article? McLaren said their steel discs were lighter.

Sure. It just means they didn't try hard enough. If steel is suddenly lighter (or less prone to fade) than any carbon-ceramic compound, then the brakes are either extremely thin or have been mixed with so many other materials that one would be hard-pressed to call it 'steel'. You can't change the laws of physics just for a nice press release.
 
Sure. It just means they didn't try hard enough. If steel is suddenly lighter (or less prone to fade) than any carbon-ceramic compound, then the brakes are either extremely thin or have been mixed with so many other materials that one would be hard-pressed to call it 'steel'. You can't change the laws of physics just for a nice press release.
No, but you can work around them nicely with some good engineering. And Mclaren are quite well known for their engineering prowess so lets see what they've turned out.

And with the F1 team I'd be amazed if they weren't experienced with carbon-ceramic brake systems.
 
From a pure physics/chemistry standpoint, I'd say Mclaren's insistence on their steel brakes being lighter than Carbon-Ceramic is shananigans. Unless it's not pure steel and is mixed with other material and steel being the smaller amount in the mixture.
 
From the press release:

McLaren (the company)
The standard brakes for the 12C reduce overall vehicle and unsprung mass. McLaren has developed a composite braking system that uses a forged aluminium bell that attaches to the cast iron disc. This solution maintained the excellent brake feel of a cast iron disc while saving 8 kg. Carbon ceramic brakes will be available as an option, offering fade-free braking performance during high performance driving, but the standard composite brake system is actually lighter than the larger carbon ceramic units.

So they've designed other parts that make the use of steel brakes lighter. The steel parts themselves will still be heavier than carbon equivalents, but the whole system is lighter with the steel option.

I'm wondering why they couldn't put their ceramic brakes on the aluminum hubs though.
 
From the press release:



So they've designed other parts that make the use of steel brakes lighter. The steel parts themselves will still be heavier than carbon equivalents, but the whole system is lighter with the steel option.

I'm wondering why they couldn't put their ceramic brakes on the aluminum hubs though.

Probably because the ceramic is harder and more brittle. Maybe it melts the Al.
 
That kind of sounds like Ferrari and Porsche are not in the business of trying to make 'all-out driver's" cars - something which I find hard to believe.
Missing the point.

McLaren wasn't making the F1 to compete with anything. They made it solely for the driver (hence why it's been regarded to as one of the ultimate driving cars ever made), not to compete with Ferrari or Porsche. That $1 million tag back in the early 90's shows. The MP4-12C hasn't been built the same. McLaren want to come back & compete against everyone; a completely different purpose from the original F1.
 
The F1 was a money no object ultimate road car project. A car like that these days has no profit in it to a company of McLaren's size. They've invested heavily in their car factory and need to produce something they can deliver in numbers. That's why they've come up with a Gallardo/F458/911 GT2/R8 V10 rival instead of a low-run Veyron/CCRX/Enzo/Zonda rival.
 
Pretty much, I guess. A $1 million car is no longer bizarre, but I don't think it's a car McLaren can afford to build anymore.

It certainly seems like a wise business decision in the current economy (not that they saw the recession coming when they first designed the car). I suppose a small company like McLaren couldn't quite spring for designing their own carbon-ceramic brakes, but they could have outsourced it...although having just written that, I realized something else. The entire car is designed in-house. If the engine is that bespoke, then they would also have wanted to design the brakes. At that price, it simply wouldn't have worked.
 
Some things that stood out to me:

* The single-piece tub that makes up the basis of the car weighs only 174 lbs.

* Carbon ceramic brakes? Nope. Too heavy.

* The 3.8L twin-turbocharged V8 should be making 600 BHP. Yikes. Most of the torque available at 2,000 RPM? Double Yikes.

* New fancy dual-clutch gearbox lets you "pre-select" gears by squeezing the stick in any direction, before going full force into the next cog. Interesting.

* Anticipated price tag? £160,000. Roughly $265K USD. Interesting Double Yikes.

I love it, despite knowing (relatively) nothing about it.
lol. Anyway:

I really, really like the interior. It has the same minimalist structure of the Elise, but it's just a hair thicker and looks much, much more expensive. If cars were houses, this would be filled (or as fiilled as is possible) with furniture from Ikea.

I absolutely abhor the exterior. It manages to look generically handsome from the front, much like the unloved Ascari KZ1, while looking terribly unkempt out back. Maybe the car's speed will make up for it's ugly.

It worked for the GTR, and that was slower and a little uglier.
 
McLaren are streaming a live video of the new MP4-12C at the below link at 10.30am GMT today. It sounds like Lewis Hamilton will be there and they will be revealing the production model as well as more information on the car and their new factory.

Interviews below with Ron Dennis and Gordon Murray and some new photos.

Source: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/249547/mclaren_mp412c_live_launch.html

McLaren MP4-12C Live Launch

Auto Express will be at the launch of the McLaren MP4-12C from 10.30am GMT Thursday 18th March 21010. Watch it on Twitter and on LIVE video

Auto Express will be reporting live from the launch of the new 458 Italia rivalling McLaren MP4-12C. In the run up to the event, we've had unprecedented access to the new supercar, and McLaren Automotive, the company that will build it, and take the fight to the mighty Lamborghini and Ferrari.

Ron Dennis Q&A

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Auto Express talks to McLaren boss Ron Dennis about the MP4-12C and the company that will build it, McLaren Automotive.

AE: What key characteristics define a McLaren road car?

RD: If you take the F1 as the start of the story of our road cars, and the 12C as the latest chapter, then there are common themes: engineering integrity, an obsession with reducing weight, Formula 1 integration in the development of the cars, and design driven by function, in particular aerodynamics. They are very different cars in concept, but are both steeped in McLaren DNA.

AE: Why should people buy a McLaren – what does your car have that Ferrari’s 458 doesn’t?

RD:The fundamental concept behind what we are doing at McLaren is that we are not just launching a new car to rival the world’s best sports cars, but a whole new car company from a blank sheet of paper. You would expect McLaren to say that the 12C and future models will compete toe-to-toe with our competitors’ products, but where we believe we will differ and present a further competitive advantage is in how we will treat our customers. Our aim is to launch cars that out-perform the competition in all aspects – speed, emissions, dynamics – but we also want to offer a new standard of customer relationships.

AE: We had heard that financing the build of your production facility had proved challenging. Is the funding in place for your new factory?

RD: It would be churlish to say that finding £40 million has been easy, but despite the economic conditions under which we have developed the project, the interest in supporting McLaren Automotive, whether from potential retailers or investors, has been very positive. The new McLaren Production Centre was always planned to begin construction as soon as planning permission was granted and that is exactly what has happened.

AE: What have been the key differences in designing and launching the McLaren road car, versus the McLaren Formula One car?

RD: It is more enlightening to talk about the similarities. Automotive and Racing are under one roof, so there is total integration between the teams. For example, Formula 1 aerodynamicists discuss problems and solutions with the 12C development team regularly. And the 12C has been developed on the same simulator used by the racing team. Despite the fact that a road car takes years to develop and a Formula 1 car, though based on evolution, just a few months, the fundamentals remain the same: rapid problem solving, absolute individual responsibility for every engineer and clear focus on the goals.

AE: What key skills do you posses that will make you a great car company boss?

RD: Within McLaren it is a matter of hiring excellent people and allowing them to take decisions. But not being afraid to also roll up your sleeves and understand the finer details of a possibility or a problem. Looking outside, it is no different to any business – understanding exactly what the market and customer desires and delivering that without compromise.

AE: Formula One, now road cars, what’s next from the McLaren Group? Do you have aspirations outside of the automotive industry?

RD: Our aim has always been to make McLaren Group an innovative, profitable, and multi-faceted company with engineering and technology principles at heart. If we grow the Group it will retain that ethos.

AE: Finally, on the eve of the launch of the new MP4-12C, what do you think is a greater challenge, taking a Formula One team to World Championship glory, or launching a new car company?

RD: Neither one nor the other. The challenge has been building up a great company full of empowered, enthusiastic and dedicated people. Then keeping that company at the top for those people. That started with winning Formula 1 World Championships, and launching McLaren Automotive as a fully-fledged car company is part of that story and a major contribution to our success.


Gordon Murray Q&A

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We catch up with the legendary designer of the McLaren F1 to get his thoughts and opinions on the new MP4-12C.

He's the man who fathered the original McLaren F1 – a machine that’s still considered the finest supercar of all time. But what does Gordon Murray think of the new MP4-12C? Auto Express grabbed some time with the legendary engineer to find out.

AE: You’ve been away from the McLaren set-up for six years, what were you working on before you left?

GM: Well, after the F1 and the SLR I was working with a team looking at other projects. In my last two years I headed up a group called Advanced Concepts. The main reason for this was to look at exotic materials such as carbonfibre, with the aim of producing these in higher volumes but at lower costs.

AE: Was that going to be applied to anything in particular?

GM: One of the last cars I worked on was codenamed Project Eight, which was to be the next McLaren-Mercedes model to succeed the SLR. It had a monocoque construction. We had some debate on whether Project Eight should be made from aluminium, but I was determined to pursue the carbonfibre route.

AE: And what do you think of the new MP4-12C?

GM: I’m very pleased to see that the MP4-12C has the same modular, monocoque construction. There are lots of supercars around now, but none of them can boast this advanced chassis. It’s a very strong USP for the MP4-12C and gives it a clear link to the company’s Formula One cars. Supercars are also getting heavier and heavier and what McLaren have done here is focus on lightweight, which is totally the right thing to do.

AE: How is the Gordon Murray Design city car project progressing?

GM: Very well. We have finished the petrol car and are working on T26 – a customer car. This will be delivered very soon. Then we’ll start work on T27. The main concern of the business is to license the technology, though, and we’ve got several contracts to fulfill, so things are going very well indeed. It’s fantastic that Gordon Murray Design is a British company that’s keeping the technology in the country too.

AE: Finally, have you driven an F1 lately?

GM: I drove one last week actually! It’s still as good as when I first drove it. No question.

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