New WRS Racing Division??

[FinaL ExaM]

In the weeks that I have been here, I couldn't help but notice 2 things:

1. A majority of the racers are Division 1
2. Among those Division 1 racers, a small handful are clearly the best

What I'm suggesting is a 4th class of racer for the precious few who are on the podium every week perhaps calling it the Premiership division would be the best description.

This way the Division 1 racers who realistically don't have too much of a chance to get a podium could now race for medal instead of just pride. Think it over and tell me what you all think. I don't believe it's too far fetched.

 

[Mr P]

I think it sounds pheasable as a solution to the top runners having a showdown every week in a league of their own, How many people would make the cut for this new division and how would they be singled out? .. I personally dont think it will stop the pecking order overall and the new D1 podium would then be filled every week with the people directly below the alien runners from previous weeks so you'd just be taking so many away and replacing with a new fixed podium I reckon ... It might even give me a shot at a D1 win with some of the faster racers promoted to an elite division

I think this thread maybe posted in the wrong place also Good post and suggestions anyway 👍

 

[FinaL ExaM]

I think the results of past weeks will speak for themselves and it's quite easy to judge who should move up just by thier consistant finishing positions. Take yourself for instance, every race you are right at the top and if you are beaten, it is by the same few people. Right off the top of my head, I can name a few that are certainly a cut above.

Mr P
Kart 38
Hugo Boss
GTManiac
Holl01

There are others I'm sure but I don't know the people here too well. This is just what I've observed in the last few weeks.

I disagree that if the new division is created, Division 1 would always have the same winners. Just looking briefly at past results, I see a lot of variation just below those few that ALWAYS finish in the same spots on the top of the leaderboard.

The way I figure it, The only difference it would make to the drivers at the top is that they would feel further distinguished, deservably so, and the remaining division 1 racers could enjoy racing for the podium. Duelling with others when you actually have a shot at the podium would definitely make be an improvement. Nothing improves intensity like hope.

It might even give me a shot at a D1 win with some of the faster racers promoted to an elite division

I just noticed this part. Too funny. Sorry Mr P, the line gets drawn BELOW you, not above 👍

 

[Sphinx]

Thanks for posting this FE. 👍

I won't add my opinion to this just yet, I would like to read what other members think about this first.

 

[arora]

A green blood division you say? Interesting, not that it would affect me in anyway, here are a few ideas:

1. Let the div1 drivers decide for themselves if they want to run in it
2. Let the div1 drivers vote their piers into it(genecide)
3. Have a "special quali for it"

 

[Jump_Ace]

Or may I suggest we do another new qualy race to decide which of the 4 dev's we belong in. Get rid of the old one and make a new one as its almost 2 years old. And the 'elite' div is a good idea, I know I don't belong there but I'd support the idea 👍

Jerome

 

[FinaL ExaM]

I think a pure formula of podium finishes per race over a given period of time would be a pretty obvious indicator of who would belong in the Premiership.

It's not that I think the members of this forum are incabable of rendering a descision, I simply believe it is extremely easy to figure out who deserves to be up there in the Premiership. I also fear that in an open forum situation, we might just end up with 20 different people coming up with 20 different things and the idea goes nowhere because of it. I'm sorry if I'm coming off like some pushy n00bie, but I really believe that the new Premiership Division would be good for the series. Thank you all for listening.

Or may I suggest we do another new qualy race to decide which of the 4 dev's we belong in. Get rid of the old one and make a new one as its almost 2 years old. And the 'elite' div is a good idea, I know I don't belong there but I'd support the idea 👍

Jerome

I don't mean to overstep my bounds, but I think new qualifying would lead to 2 problems: First, I think lots of racers would sandbag to go into lower divisions which would be a pain in the moderator's butts to correct later and secondly, the sheer magnitute of getting everybody to qualify again would be murder for anybody involved in administering the job, I.E., the moderators.

 

[Ren-Tec]

Its an interesting point FinaL ExaM but all i think it will do is give me a chance at gold in D1 and maybe open up D1 to some more from D2. I mean alot of the time the top drivers (saying no names) don't even run a weeks race. In my point im saying that some times the premiership would be empty.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I don't mean to overstep my bounds, but I think new qualifying would lead to 2 problems: First, I think lots of racers would sandbag to go into lower divisions which would be a pain in the moderator's butts to correct later and secondly, the sheer magnitute of getting everybody to qualify again would be murder for anybody involved in administering the job, I.E., the moderators.

Yes but its not my problem (sorry Jerry!) j/k, but if needed I'd love to help out. But I think if anyone is gonna sandbag, they aren't real drivers, those that do miss what the WRS is all about; being a better driver and comparing your times to those of your buddies 👍 I'd think (generally) those to intentionally sandbag are afraid of failure because if they give 100% then they know there are other drivers that are faster and they won't have any excuses like oh, I left .4 on the track I can do better but I don't want to attitude. Just my $.02. But you still a good point none the less F.E.

Jerome

 

[superwally]

I'm new to the series. I'm one of the D1 drivers who won't be beating the very best here, ever. The current system is fine-I'm racing as hard as I can anyway, and not knowing what the gold/silver/bronze lap times for D1 will be makes it a bit of a mystery anway until results are posted. I can tell by the splits in the weekly thread where I stand relative to others, pushing me to go faster.

That being said, would it be nice to podium? Yes. Can't say that I will but I suppose the additional division would enhance the possibility. Would the additional chance be worth requalifying? No. It's entirely different to qualify after you have been racing in the series for a time than to enter it blind. I think the lack of foreknowlege is essential to the qualifying format. Also, I spent far more time on the Q than the series races and do not want to do it again-please.

I'm not sure what the interval for promotions/demotions is, if it's reasonably frequent then everyone should be where they need to be anyway without a re-Q.

Good idea, thanks for listening.

 

[Jake]

I like the current setup, and I would not vote for a new alien division. I have run 25 races here and won D2 once. It was great to win, but I wouldn't want to add a handicap just for those who think they could never beat the top drivers. I accept I will never be as fast as the top racers but who cares?

I put in the maximum effort possible given the time I have for a race. Adding divisions and changing the qualifier would ruin it for me. I just like to race. If some dude is gonna cry because he doesn't get the gold colored font he should look somewhere else to race...

 

[JRadGT]

I think its rubbish. Look at any real life race series, there always seems to be a few racers who are up for the podium. They dont make a whole new division for those few. You must have done something to get to that level, and that something can take you over the top. Just keep on pushing yourself to get there. Im Div 3 and i can only hope to improve my standings here, creating a new Div wont make you go faster. The only thing that will make you faster is coming in 2nd. Good luck to all in week 97

 

[Casio]

Yes, I don't agree with creating new divisions because people aren't fast enough to win in it. Face reality, people will be better then others, and they get rewarded with wins and podiums, the people who aren't as fast don't.

Personally, I'd be happy if we scraped divisions all together.

 

[KLR142]

No need, IMO.

 

[Eggstor]

Don't think I'll be in that boat for a while since I'm barely treading water in D2 . However you guys in D1 want to settle this is more than fine by me, because hopefully some day I'll be in at least the bottom half of D1 (at least as long as we can stay off the dirt, that is ).

 

[kennythebomb]

I would like to see this implemented, I was thinking about this just a few days ago.

Casual GT players, still learning proper techniques, Div 4
Talented drivers who are somewhat fast, Div 3
Fast drivers who can run rings around most people, Div 2
The top elite, 5%, Div 1

Right now Div 3 is my Div 4, Div 2 is my Div 3, and Div 1 is both my Div 1 and Div 2.

As it stands D1 racers like me, Casio, and MisterWeary don't have the time or the insane skills to beat the top echelon of racers, we never will get a podium finish when they run. So I probably speak for myself on this, but I would love the ability to have some tight competition and win a medal, instead of rounding out the rear of D1.

 

[CRXnut]

For the longest time the Div 2 was the biggest. Now it's Div 1. People come and go all the time. I don't feel the need for more divisions.

 

[GPKart]

I dont really see a reason to divide div 1, the only true Alien in all tracks with all cars is holl01 even so he is not going to be racing WRS anymore with us. He was quite alone in his own class IMHO. There are also quite amazingly fast drivers but they use to show up only when the races are in their field.

I don't even see a reason for different divisions, what really maters in the end is our own progress.

I consider myself a good driver at some combos, but there others that I cant perform as good, usualy the WRS races I've been doing are all far from my combo preferences. So I think that even a new qualify wouldn't mean much for me either and I would keep it as it curretly is.

 

[Jetboy.]

I would like to see this implemented, I was thinking about this just a few days ago.

Casual GT players, still learning proper techniques, Div 4
Talented drivers who are somewhat fast, Div 3
Fast drivers who can run rings around most people, Div 2
The top elite, 5%, Div 1

Right now Div 3 is my Div 4, Div 2 is my Div 3, and Div 1 is both my Div 1 and Div 2.

As it stands D1 racers like me, Casio, and MisterWeary don't have the time or the insane skills to beat the top echelon of racers, we never will get a podium finish when they run. So I probably speak for myself on this, but I would love the ability to have some tight competition and win a medal, instead of rounding out the rear of D1.

Out of all the opinions listed thusfar, I like Kenny's idea the best, really. It makes the most logical sense to me, anyway. (Props to him.) I like the whole idea altogether, because it's very true. Same guys fight for the top spots. Dare I say it, NASCRAP already implements a form of it to a successful effect.

The prospect of a re-qually for all is nice, but in execution, would provide very messy as FinaL ExaM already pointed out. But still, I want to requallify. The driver I was over 2 years ago is deffinitely different from the one I am today..



Good subject matter, props to you as well FE.👍


Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[MisterWeary]

I think to change the divisional system when we're at the tail end of GT4 would be too much work. I don't mind being at the bottom of the results each week because I just race for fun these days. But I would defnitely be in support of dumping the divisions altogether. I know the fight to rise through divisions is quite fun and I enjoyed battling my way into Div 1 but these days I don't think it's that important.

 

[Tedehur]

A 4th division, huh ?
Well, it doesn't seem to me an easy task. How to define who's div 1A and who's div 1B (or whatever they'd be named) ? The cut-off times used to dispatch racers in the 3 existing divisions were set 2 years ago based on the first 50 or so submitted times.

• Should the current D1 racers be split based on their initial qualification time run 2 years ago ?
  That doesn't ensure that the splitting would be close to 50/50, perhaps almost everybody in D1 would end up being below the new cut-off time which would then be proven useless.
• Should D1 racers be split based on their recent results ?
  Good luck to the one who will take the decision of who's performed well and who hasn't. That promises some quite entertaining arguments.
• Should everybody run a new qualifier ?
  I've considered that option on several occasions last year, but I've never found a way to do it that would spice the WRS enough to be worth trying.

In addition to that, another factor has to be considered IMO : not many racers reached D1 thanks to a natural skill. Most of them started in D2 or D3, practiced hard until they got promoted and eventually reached D1. I've received countless PMs from people I had been promoting to D1 saying something like : yeah, I'm now D1, that has been my goal for the past X months and now I'm promoted. Many thanks.
So my guess is that many D1-ers actually stopped practising like hell once they had reached D1, and if we create a D1+, many of them will practice hard again until they get promoted in the top div. And in the end the additional division would have been useless.

GT4 is already 2 years old, the fashion effect is long gone and many have moved to other games. I don't think that the WRS needs a too complicated structure now, I'd rather suggest it stays rather informal.
And with an average of 20 submissions a week, 3 divisions seems enough to me.

 

[kennythebomb]

Good points Cyril.

I have to say though that if a divison 1b were created I'd probably be more enthused to race more often.

Perhaps just making the D1 drivers do a qualifier right now would settle things... however it seems many drivers simply do not care.

 

[FinaL ExaM]

Ultimately, the descision as to whether or not this will be an improvement to the series is Sphinx's. There are pros and cons as in any situation. once more I'd like to stress that there's no need to go to old qualifying times or additional qualifiers. A simple formula to determine the average Div1 finishing position of the racers in that division will make it obvious who needs to move up.

I'm sure most people here can just name those who should be in a higher division right off thier heads. But for those on the cusp, this formula could be easily implimented

 

[Metar]

I'm against another division - three is enough. Personally, I'm currently battling just to stay above Div3, so I don't think I'll ever land near Div1, but, as others mentioned:

• GT4 is too old for a new system which would require lots of work, and recalls for the whole bunch of racers
• There simply are not enough racers every week to keep more than 3 divisions full & active - even now, Div3 barely manages to get the 3 racers minimum, and in the past 20 weeks, it happened 3 times that only 3 submitted. Div1 was a bit empty, but since Week 74 (and then 79) there's been a major comeback of the aliens, plus new recruits, and Div1 has been running strong ever since - I guess it's something that comes and goes. I suggest we leave things as they are - the division-system proved itself reliable and safe.

Also: Now that GT4 got this old, the main runners are those that do it for the fun - it got more and more like a close bunch, with results becoming less important (or, at least that's what I've noticed) - so perhaps scratching the whole idea of divisions could be usefull?
Or, I remember Brad had this idea a while back.... Something like a "WRS Tournament", of which I don't remember the rules. Anyways, I've thought about it, and it might make a good idea, teaming up two drivers (preferably close-results ones) for a match each week, with the battles 'forcing' each driver to give out his absolute best in order to go up the ranks. Say, I do a match with Laurence[numbers], the winner fights the winner from the match between two others who are, comparably, close. Then it goes on until each division has a winner, with the loosing side battling for the places below...


I dunno. I just don't know.

 

[Hugo Boss]

The possible premiership division would be empty most of the times I think. Mr.P still runs regularly, but Holl01 retired and GTManiac, Kart.no.38 and myself just hop in now and then. So when there are less than average submissions in Div.1, anybody can win it.

Although I'm flattered to be qualified for a possible 4th division, I don't really see the need for it. Unless it's for a separate Pretty Men Division. But it's hard to judge who would qualify too then... So my vote would go to stick with this system until GT5 is out.

 

[MisterWeary]

...Unless it's for a separate Pretty Men Division.

Casio is a pretty boy, he'd qualify for that kind of division.

 

[Casio]

Casio is a pretty boy, he'd qualify for that kind of division.

You saying I'm not a man yet Colb?!

(And off on a little tangent. This keyboard at uni is the worst thing I've ever used. The F-Keys are touching the top row. And all the other keys have about .001mm of space between them.)

 

[Kelly]

As it stands D1 racers like me, Casio, and MisterWeary don't have the time or the insane skills to beat the top echelon of racers, we never will get a podium finish when they run. So I probably speak for myself on this, but I would love the ability to have some tight competition and win a medal, instead of rounding out the rear of D1.

Been thinking about this and looking through all the posts and I think Kenny makes the point the best, and coming from a D1 driver I think his post says it all.
I personally have no motivation to get promoted atm.
I like battling for a podium (most weeks) and to get promoted would give me no chance!
I think myself and a few other D2'ers could quite easily give the bottom half of D1 a run for their money, but what is the point if there aint going to be podium to battle for? I'm sure a few other D1 drivers would race a bit more often knowing they were in with a chance at least.

The possible premiership division would be empty most of the times I think. Mr.P still runs regularly, but Holl01 retired and GTManiac, Kart.no.38 and myself just hop in now and then. So when there are less than average submissions in Div.1, anybody can win it

I disagree, with that Hugo. If there were a premiership division maybe you top runners would compete more against each other as there's a bit more glory to be had?

 

[Hugo Boss]

The possible premiership division would be empty most of the times I think. Mr.P still runs regularly, but Holl01 retired and GTManiac, Kart.no.38 and myself just hop in now and then. So when there are less than average submissions in Div.1, anybody can win it.

I disagree, with that Hugo. If there were a premiership division maybe you top runners would compete more against each other as there's a bit more glory to be had?

No thanks, Kel, that wouldn't count for me. I join a week when I have some decent time to spend and when I like the combo ofcourse. The real glory is to be had in a BC. A premiership division just sounds too braggy for me. And where does it end if we create another division? In theory Div2 is big enough too to separate in 2 divisions. If you're at the bottom of a division, you just have to accept imo that others are faster, or better see it as a challenge to decrease the gap to the top drivers in each division.

 

[Kelly]

Well I can see your point Hugo and totally understand where you are coming from, but if you look at it this way
"I don't want promoting to D1 because I'll never get to podium again no matter how much time I spend on a combo " I'm sure a few of the D2 racers feel the same way (could do with some of their input here)
D1 is the same every week (depending on who takes part) D2 is different every week almost and a good battle is usually had by most.

Take FE for example; sure he's been winning D2 for a few weeks now,and he's good yeah, but when will we next see him on a podium now he's been promoted? When do guys like ren-tec and misterweary win?
There's pro and cons as with everything and of course there's going to be different opinions amongst us, you've posted yours and I've posted mine.

This thread could do with some more opinions on the matter, not just the fast guys who can win whenever the mood suits IMO