New WRS Racing Division??

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Those are some good points Lotus. We are thinking along the same lines.

I know for sure that if my system was the actual WRS system, I would race a lot more often. But that's me and me only that I can speak for.

Realistically, it probably is too late in the 'season' to be changing the structure.

So at least for GT5, we could implement something similar if popular opinion decrees it.
 
Hugo Boss
The real glory is to be had in a BC.
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Still find it funny ive done better in Both BC's than any GT4 WRS ive run (though i think i got 3rd in WRS 5). WRS to me is/was? more about competeting with/against your mates or similar drivers week in week out and trying to improve rather than winning and podiums. Dont get me wrong when i acheived the later i was very thrilled and happy, but not as happy as beating a few key drivers i was having a battle with that week. While the chances of me ever beating the likes of Hotboi/Holl01/Hugo/Zoky were slim to none, if i put in some really hardcore effort i could expect a decent result. But i never have found the motivation to run so hard in a WRS. However i have had some brilliant battles with CFM / Sphinx / Mr P and a few others week in week out trying to beat them. Basically the sad truth is.. someone has to loose, not everyone can win or get a podium every week otherwise if they did it would have no importance and nobody would care. It would become normal. If you really want a podium or a top 5 then you can BUT you have to be willing to put in the effort a podium requires. And Kel do i have to remind you of your speed in GT3?, if you wanted to you could become as fast as that in GT4, but you simply dont play it as much as GT3??. It wont happen overnight but if its something you really want and prepared to put in the effort than a WRS podium is not out of reach no matter the division. Believe it or not Hugo didnt just wake up one moring being able to "win when the mood suits" Hugo has put in the hours and practise and effort over the YEARS to become where he is today and is now getting the rewards of his effort. And Holl01 has played the game FAR more than anyone i know which is why he was so god dam fast. For sure these guys have talent and many think that they dont have as much, which in some cases may be true, but im telling you now that effort and practise gets you a LONG way, talent only shows when you reach the very top, thats when you start reaching a limit where the amount of practise wont quite make up the difference. But have no fear this limit is just about always higher than a WRS podium.

We cant just put 3 people in a division and have about 10 divisions just so everyone can get a podium.

I dont think we need another division.. As far as im aware ive only had 1 GT4 WRS podium and i havnt won a single GT4 WRS, i was always just behind the "uber aliens" that being said 9/10 times i didnt try as hard or practise the week as much as the guys whom beat me, so i didnt deserve to finish any higher anyway.
 
lotus350
Well I can see your point Hugo and totally understand where you are coming from, but if you look at it this way
"I don't want promoting to D1 because I'll never get to podium again no matter how much time I spend on a combo " I'm sure a few of the D2 racers feel the same way (could do with some of their input here)
D1 is the same every week (depending on who takes part) D2 is different every week almost and a good battle is usually had by most.

Take FE for example; sure he's been winning D2 for a few weeks now,and he's good yeah, but when will we next see him on a podium now he's been promoted? When do guys like ren-tec and misterweary win?
There's pro and cons as with everything and of course there's going to be different opinions amongst us, you've posted yours and I've posted mine.

This thread could do with some more opinions on the matter, not just the fast guys who can win whenever the mood suits IMO ;)
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I agree with your basic point there, Kelly. Div1 is a little different from the other divisions, since it includes both the fast, and the really-fast. The pace-difference between those is sometimes larger than that between the worst and best of D3 - which is quite a difference... But, there just aren't enough uber-fasts to compete & fill such a division.

And on FE's matter - just before the results we exchanged some times-related PMs. I mentioned his result would probably kick him up to Div1 - and he wasn't very happy with that.
I myself decided to wait with my promotion until I could actually reach the level neccessary to compete in Div2 (when I won my first races, I was still quite a bit behind the bronzes in Div2). However (and this is where my opinion differs), I know I may never reach a podium - but it doesn't really bug me. I'm on the lower-half of Div2, and I know that. If I train, or race hard, I might even gold a gold sometime in the far-away future. In the meanwhile, the hard competition is what keeps me giving my best, when I finally find the time to race. This week, I actually managed to run pretty well (splits-wise). Last time I ran, I came second-to-last. It varies in Div2 enough to make it interesting, But I see your point - Div1 should be frustrating...
 
I see lots of good points which have switched my opinion slightly ...

In the WRS we have some very long term thoroughbred racers so to speak who can find most of whats available in a certain combo in a relatively short amount of time compared to some not as seasoned at the game!

I could choose 10 racers easily who could fill an elite / pro division but getting them all to race together would be like getting blood from a stone and would then end up being 3 or 4 pro drivers finishing per week which would simply not be enough for creating the suggested elite / pro division in the first place :dopey:

The D2 racers who get promoted to D1 are ultimately at a loss in way of podium finishes unless they dig really deep .. simple as that! and sometimes it will still only result in a mid pack finish in D1 .. but nothing should come easy or everyone would win :P .. silly as it sounds?

How's about this for a suggestion? ... WRS drivers who have ever podiumed in the renowned 'BC' or people with a damn good chance of doing well in one should be put into a category of their own ( maybe titled old time racers or something not over glorifying .. vets .. etc ) which would then seperate the vets from the casual racers? I would end up in this category against my own preference and would never win a race in this division anyway but I am starting to look at the simple fact that people advancing through the divisions will never really see any praise for their efforts unless the top dogs are extracted from the picture, how would someone know if they qualify for this category? ... well! ... If an Offical World Ranking system for GT was about then the best drivers would be sure to get in the top 10 / 20 list .. Obvious people to make this list would be .. Holl01, Hugo Boss, Kart38, GTmaniac etc.. I would push damn hard also and would push until my thumbs bled to work my way up this list until I knew my limits :sly: The usual supsects know how good they are and that they could make this list ;)
The point is we have some world class drivers that should be noticed for the skill factor they have and put into a category as such .. I'm happy to be moved from D1 and put in a new category and finish last every week 👍 .. My eyes are open now lets see something done about this .. and more opinions :cheers:
Ron.
 
Small_Fryz
]WRS to me is/was? more about competeting with/against your mates or similar drivers week in week out and trying to improve rather than winning and podiums.
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That's because you've settled for that Dion it doesn't have to be so boring just racing in mid pack all the time.
Don't get me wrong,I know it's not all about winning, I'm not on a power trip or something ;) This idea and the wrs is not about racing to win/podium every week, it's about competing and having fun, I know that, and I don't care if I finish last in my Div even with a lot of effort, but some weeks when the combo is right I will try damn hard to get to the top! If I was in Div1 I know for a fact that no matter how hard I tried (forget about GT3 days) I wouldn't be able to podium even if I spent hours a day trying. That's not because I'm crap, I truly believe I am div1 material when I put in the effort, but even so there is a league out there that is just above the rest of us, and to me they should be in a league of their own as they are an elite category

Take this for example: I'll spend 3 hours on a lap getting the best time I possibly can in that session and felling proud of myself, in comes Ron and decides to have a few laps...15 minutes later he has crushed my lap time and my confidence! Does that mean because he put a lot of effort into it in the past or whatever that he beat me so badly? no, it means that he really is a much better/skilled racer than me and he is an elite racer wether he likes it or not.
The only time an elite racer will really put in hours of effort and commitment is if they are racing another elite racer. Other than that they can beat us within a few hours even the rest of D1 and they know it!

And it shouldn't matter if only 1 or 2 guys submit in that division or maybe none, look at Div3 for example...


Btw...when is GT5 released?
 
I can imagine people wanting to see some success after giving their best effort. But like stated above by others, success doesn't come easy. When I was ill for 8 months about 5 years ago, I played about 10 hours a week average. I made a huge step forward in my driving back then. I still profit now from all the hours I've put in this game, along with some talent and all the racing related experiences in my life. If everybody would have success on a regular base, you wouldn't experience it the same way as when you finally have some success. GT4 isn't about winning for me anymore for a long time (except the BC then), just about having fun and getting runs I'm personally content with.

I don't see it as a problem if there will be an extra division, but I think it's just a temporary solution for the people who want to see some success. I know it ain't fun if you never see success, but it only is an argument when you really go for it week in week out. If you have success on a regular base, it will become less important everytime you have it.
 
Gingiba
And on FE's matter - just before the results we exchanged some times-related PMs. I mentioned his result would probably kick him up to Div1 - and he wasn't very happy with that.
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A few things on this: First, When I have private conversations, they are just that. If I want everybody to know how I feel about something, I'll post it in a public thread. It's ok, I know you mean no harm and it's really not a big deal. Just understand where I'm coming from with that.

Secondly, with as few words as possible, the bottom line is that whether or not division 1 is broken into 2 divisions technically, in reality it already is. And with all due respect to Hugo and his opinion, he's not one of the racers who is negatively effected by this reality. I created this thread long before I was pushed into Division 1. Personally, I have no problem competing with the Division 1 racers. My problem is having to compete in the same class with racers who are in faster division obviously. My contention is that everybody should have a chance to make the PODIUM, not win. In the current structure of Division 1, that is simply not possible.

My suggestion would be to have everybody give 10 names that they think should be included in an elite division. Submit the list privately to ensure no bias among those who have not voted yet. Which ever 10 racers receive the most votes move to the new elite division. I believe that almost all of the names on every list will be virtually identical, further evidence that this elite class already exists regardless of whether we acknowledge it or not. Thanks for listening.
 
Weeks 94-98. I do not have a Maxdrive but I verify all runs via Sharkport and all have been 100% clean including the Week 95 DQ where I was late in submitting the replay.
 
That's good enough for me. 👍 Just wondering why a newbie is so concerned about changing the system. I'll go with whatever Sphinx decides but it seems like this thread has run it's course.
 
Good luck with the outcome in here .. I have posted my thoughts and now i'm staying out of it totally 👍

Have fun :cheers:
 
jake73
That's good enough for me. 👍 Just wondering why a newbie is so concerned about changing the system. I'll go with whatever Sphinx decides but it seems like this thread has run it's course.
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While I don't generally accept the concept that somebody has to have seniority or stature to speak out about something they think could use improving, I do completely understand that this is as much a part of online message boards as the phrase "ROFLMAO!"

Since I know I'm just a newbie, I'm sorry if my actions here have offended any older members. It just looked to me like the addition of the new division would would make the series more enjoyable and rewarding to more drivers involved in it. It was never my intention to be imposing or overstep my bounds. If I have, then I apologize.
 
No problem, I understand your excitement about the WRS. It's a great series for all of us GT fanatics...:)
 
FinaL ExaM
Ultimately, the descision as to whether or not this will be an improvement to the series is Sphinx's.
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Nope, I’m just the Race Admin.
The only reason I can think of that would allow me to deny any changes would be the extra amount of workload it would create that falls directly at my feet. Other than that, it’s up to you guys.

My opinion on this is somewhat mixed. Although I can see the point being raised here, I cannot however support it 100% because why do we need to create another division so the slower drivers can reap the reward. If you are division 1 material and you have reached as far as you can go in terms of driving ability then why not be satisfied with that?

I don’t accept that we need another division. However, relegation could be a possibility if any driver wants to be demoted to a lower division. In fact, we could have a mass demotion of division 1 & 2 driver’s to level the playing field if there is a need to. For example, a selection of div1 drivers are demoted to div2, and then a selection of div2 drivers are demoted to div3?
 
Sphinx
My opinion on this is somewhat mixed. Although I can see the point being raised here, I cannot however support it 100% because why do we need to create another division so the slower drivers can reap the reward. If you are division 1 material and you have reached as far as you can go in terms of driving ability then why not be satisfied with that?
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A very noble notion Sphinx and one that I certainly can appreciate. Unfortunately I am both human and a competitor. Why not take it a step farther and have 3 more drivers thinking they have reached as far as they can go in terms of driving ability and also got something for it. This proposition changes nothing except that more drivers will be rewarded with a tangible prize (podium position). Isn't that great added treat to knowing you did your best?

I know that going up against the status quo is always a very tough proposition and I probably have already made enough people around here mad at me for challenging it so I rest my case. Hopefully everybody will realize how the added hope to drivers won't only affect the drivers that race every week, but the drivers who steer clear because they are not content with hanging thier hat on a bad placing facing drivers that obviously belong in a different class.

Who knows? Maybe there are even some drivers in lower classes who could be much better but they don't bother realizing thier potential because it would just result in a promotion and subsequent kick in the nuts.

Again, I am sorry If my suggestions arguments have offended anybody. Being a new kid on the block isn't fun when you're universally disliked.
 
FinaL ExaM
A very noble notion Sphinx and one that I certainly can appreciate. Unfortunately I am both human and a competitor. Why not take it a step farther and have 3 more drivers thinking they have reached as far as they can go in terms of driving ability and also got something for it. This proposition changes nothing except that more drivers will be rewarded with a tangible prize (podium position). Isn't that great added treat to knowing you did your best?
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By being a "competitor" you can already take things further and get something from it with the 3 other drivers, by competing against each other for either the Gold, Silver or Bronze rewards that are already in place and given out every week to every driver.

I'm more of a Div1 Silver kinda guy myself. What are you going to be in Div1?
 
I think the work involved outways the benifits....

Besides, by the time gt5 comes out a special div may very well be needed, perhaps the grampa div? :lol:

I compete against a select few who are all faster than myself, I measure my progress against them and don't care much for medals really. Respect of fellow racers is all that matters in my humble opinion.
 
Sphinx
However, relegation could be a possibility if any driver wants to be demoted to a lower division. In fact, we could have a mass demotion of division 1 & 2 driver’s to level the playing field if there is a need to. For example, a selection of div1 drivers are demoted to div2, and then a selection of div2 drivers are demoted to div3?
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This sounds like a proper solution :) The difference between the top and bottom of division 1 is mostly bigger than the difference between the bottom of division 1 and the top of division 2. Maybe we can make a selection of mid/bottom drivers in divisions 1 & 2 that can decide if they want to be demoted to a lower division. I think we'll see more drivers scoring golds then and probably a bigger variety in division winners. The current division 3 runners will be disadvantaged, but on the other hand they don't have to feel left out, since division 3 is mostly the one with the least submissions these days.
 
Hugo Boss
This sounds like a proper solution :) The difference between the top and bottom of division 1 is mostly bigger than the difference between the bottom of division 1 and the top of division 2. Maybe we can make a selection of mid/bottom drivers in divisions 1 & 2 that can decide if they want to be demoted to a lower division. I think we'll see more drivers scoring golds then and probably a bigger variety in division winners. The current division 3 runners will be disadvantaged, but on the other hand they don't have to feel left out, since division 3 is mostly the one with the least submissions these days.
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This is all very true but only if you are resigned to there being only 3 divisions. Sure Division 1 drivers could drop to Division 2 but then what happenes top the top Division 2 drivers? They get the shaft. Why not let them keep thier podiums, the slower Division 1 drivers get their podium, and the Elite class drivers get thier podium?

I know I sound like a broken record but the fastest Div 1 racers should be in the class they are already driving in....thier own. The new Elite division is just a natural adjustment to conditions that already exist. There's no need to protect the status qou simply because it is.
 
FinaL ExaM
This is all very true but only if you are resigned to there being only 3 divisions. Sure Division 1 drivers could drop to Division 2 but then what happenes top the top Division 2 drivers? They get the shaft. Why not let them keep thier podiums, the slower Division 1 drivers get their podium, and the Elite class drivers get thier podium?
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I can follow you on that, but we also need to treat all drivers in the same way. That would mean another extra division for the bottom division 2 drivers, if we decide to create an elite division. We would go from 3 to 5 divisions in one step. I don't know if that will be the right decision. It's a big change and brings more work along for Jerry.

Since the changes aren't affecting my position, I just want to give an objective view on this. It's by no means my intention to reject all suggestions and changes.
 
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