NHL Season 2012-2013

[Joel]

Thomas, Rask, Quick, Schneider, Howard, Elliott, Halak, Miller, Price, Brodeur, Lundqvist, Smith, Rinne there is 13 goalies that are better than Luongo.

Rask, Howard, Elliott, Halak, Brodeur, and Smith are not better than him.

Rask hasn't proven he's a #1 yet (Chara makes any goalie look good), Howard has a favourable spot (formerly) behind Lidstrom, Detroit's a powerhouse and his numbers aren't phenomenal. Elliott is a guy the Senators threw in the scrap heap last year, he's had one good season, ditto to Smith. Let's see if they can do it for 5+ years before we compare them to Luongo. Brodeur had a good playoff but his elite days are over. He's still an NHL starter but in no way elite.

I'd take Price, Rinne, Lundqvist, Quick, and Miller next season ahead of Luongo. I left Thomas off the list because he's apparently taking a year off next season. Schneider it's a toss up. I really don't think he's a better goalie, but for contract complications I'd go with him over Luongo most likely. Luongo is a proven and elite goalie. He's worth every penny.

 

[CMvan46]

All because of who he played for and the fact that outside of Vancouver the only attention Canuck players get is negative.for god sakes even the Sedins had back to back MVP years (Perry only had a better second half) and they still don't get any respect out East. I'd like to know how many Canuck games any one of the Luongo haters actually watch. People don't realize just how good he is and the way he can literally steal you games that you have no business being in. Also to adapt to the game he has completely reinvented his style which took two years because of how much different it is, this was an effort to improve his glove hand and it's worked.

 

[Tzun]

All because of who he played for and the fact that outside of Vancouver the only attention Canuck players get is negative.for god sakes even the Sedins had back to back MVP years (Perry only had a better second half) and they still don't get any respect out East. I'd like to know how many Canuck games any one of the Luongo haters actually watch. People don't realize just how good he is and the way he can literally steal you games that you have no business being in. Also to adapt to the game he has completely reinvented his style which took two years because of how much different it is, this was an effort to improve his glove hand and it's worked.

Steal games? Game 7 4-0? What Game 3 8-2? You call that stealing? Even iam better goalie than him!

 

[CMvan46]

Steal games? Game 7 4-0? What Game 3 8-2? You call that stealing? Even iam better goalie than him!

And point = proven. All people remember are the bad games because they don't watch enough to actually know what kind of goalie he is. Yes he absolutely steals games and he has the capability to stand on his head and make saves that few others can make. There are some goalies that just can't do that.

On some nights I'd say Luongo is a better goalie than Schneider but consistency is the issue. With Schneider your more than likely to get a well above average game from him each and every night. With Luongo you could get a #1 goalie in the world performance or the massive blunders like you mentioned.

You need to watch more Canuck games before you can debate with me. You don't see me telling you Rask is a crazy goalie and won't be a true #1. He is unproven yes because he has never won anything and never been truly relied on but I can't sit here and say he is awful because I haven't seen him play enough. You watch highlights or the series against Boston and think you know all there is to know about him.

Did you watch the gold medal game 2010? 3rd period and overtime is my example. Under more pressure than a game 7 cup final and he made some absolutely brilliant saves.

 

[Tzun]

And point = proven. All people remember are the bad games because they don't watch enough to actually know what kind of goalie he is. Yes he absolutely steals games and he has the capability to stand on his head and make saves that few others can make. There are some goalies that just can't do that.

On some nights I'd say Luongo is a better goalie than Schneider but consistency is the issue. With Schneider your more than likely to get a well above average game from him each and every night. With Luongo you could get a #1 goalie in the world performance or the massive blunders like you mentioned.

You need to watch more Canuck games before you can debate with me. You don't see me telling you Rask is a crazy goalie and won't be a true #1. He is unproven yes because he has never won anything and never been truly relied on but I can't sit here and say he is awful because I haven't seen him play enough. You watch highlights or the series against Boston and think you know all there is to know about him.

Did you watch the gold medal game 2010? 3rd period and overtime is my example. Under more pressure than a game 7 cup final and he made some absolutely brilliant saves.

Yea i know about Rask i actually hate him. Gold game, who cares? Stanley Cup is more important.

 

[CMvan46]

Alright I'm done with this. I know hockey very well and I know the Canucks like the back of my hand.I've watched him play 60 and 70+ games a year since he got here yet you feel the need to disagree because you watched one playoffs series. What were the scores in the other games back in Vancouver?

He is an elite goalie and the best option both Toronto and Florida have for finding a veteran goalie than improves their teams. It's that simple.

 

[Tzun]

Alright I'm done with this. I know hockey very well and I know the Canucks like the back of my hand.I've watched him play 60 and 70+ games a year since he got here yet you feel the need to disagree because you watched one playoffs series. What were the scores in the other games back in Vancouver?

He is an elite goalie and the best option both Toronto and Florida have for finding a veteran goalie than improves their teams. It's that simple.

Yea im done too. He played bad against LA too. He was an elite goalie. His career is going \/. About Schneider, i dont know if he can handle the pressure by Canuck fans and the management.

 

[CMvan46]

Again watch more games before commenting. He didn't play badly against LA in any way. Schneider was put in just to change things up and give the team a boost. Everybody knew it wasn't because Luongo played poorly he actually was one of the best Canucks.

 

[Tzun]

What you guys think?
-Who will sign Semin?
-Will Toronto make a big trade?
-Is Yakupov right choice for Edmonton?
-Will Luongo get traded?
-Will Parise leave New Joyce?
-Will Suter sign with the Preds?

 

[Clytius]

I don't except anything big from Burke, hes and idiot and has done nothing recently to improve the Leafs. I just don't see Luongo getting traded. I can't remember correctly but I think I heard somewhere that the Canucks made it clear that Luongo is staying. Parise is staying with New Jersey for sure and same with Suter and Nashville.

 

[Joel]

I doubt Suter stays in Nashville, they just don't have the cash. Weber is the priority IMO. A sign and trade is possible but unlikely. Parise, if they cut Brodeur's pay by 1.5M, and add that to Parise's 6M, he'd stay at 7.5M.

 

[CMvan46]

I just don't see Luongo getting traded. I can't remember correctly but I think I heard somewhere that the Canucks made it clear that Luongo is staying.

I wouldn't bet on that. Every rumor coming out of here and every sports station is saying it's more than likely to happen within the week. There is always the possibility it doesn't happen or somebody had second thoughts but at this point everybody is talking like he is gone already including players and sports radio guys who usually do get this stuff right (Bob MacKenzie, Darren Dreger, Pierre LeBrun).


I don't see how Parise stays under the cap either, even if they find a way it'd be tight. I agree with noob too that Sutter is all but gone from Nashville.

 

[Carbonox]

-Is Yakupov right choice for Edmonton?

This is an interesting question because I don't think many Russian players consistently stay in the NHL anymore. There's always a risk of him leaving to play for Russia if he gets a better offer there, so if I were responsible for draft picks, I'd maybe acquire a North American player instead.

But this is only speculation, I don't actually know all that much about ice hockey business. Except for that Granlund is going to play in Wild next season.

 

[Tzun]

Barret Jackman re-signed with the Blues. 3-year contract worth 9.5mill, 3.1mill cap hit. Third important part of the Blues defence right after Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk.

Todd McLellan returns to the Sharks bench.

 

[CMvan46]

And Harding resigns with the Wild. This is looking better and better for the Canucks. God I hope they get something done here.

 

[Joel]

And Harding resigns with the Wild. This is looking better and better for the Canucks. God I hope they get something done here.

For any team looking to improve their goaltending, the market basically just ended. Vokoun was the best goalie available (outside of Luongo) by a large margin, and then Harding was the next best available. As of right now, looking at the UFA goalies available (excluding Brodeur obviously), the best available is probably Dan Ellis, Curtis Sanford, or Martin Biron. That's not really an improvement for anybody .

Teams basically have to choose between trading to get a true #1 top goalie in Luongo, or signing a stopgap goalie or two (Ellis, Sanford, Biron), and hoping to land one of Quick, Lehtonen or Howard next offseason when they go UFA. The only other option would be to try and sign Schneider or Price to a psycho offer sheet that Vancouver or Montreal would likely match anyway.

I really think Luongo's been considered "overrated" for so long that he's actually underrated now. He's not top 5 in the NHL anymore due to his age (although at 33 he still probably has 4 more great years left), but he's definitely in the top 10 still. I mean, the guy was a Vezina finalist two seasons ago. There's literally only 5 goalies in the NHL I'd take ahead of Luongo (Price, Rinne, Lundqvist, Quick, and Miller).

I dunno if the Canucks will be able to get a huge return for him, but I think maybe a package deal with Raymond (he's up for a contract isn't he?) could fetch something good.

 

[Tzun]

Erik Karlsson signs a 7-year contract with a 6.5mill cap hit. (Senators)

Darren Helm signs a 4-year contract worth of 8.5mill. (Red Wings)

 

[Joel]

Karlsson's contract likely complicates negotiations with PK Subban. If Karlsson's worth 6.5M, you've gotta think Subban's gonna get at least 5.5M. I don't think Subban's better than Karlsson or anything, but they are somewhat close and Karlsson's a good comparable. The other thing is Josh Gorges at 3.9M. If he's worth 3.9M I don't think we'll get away with paying Subban any less than 4.75M.

 

[Tzun]

Karlsson's contract likely complicates negotiations with PK Subban. If Karlsson's worth 6.5M, you've gotta think Subban's gonna get at least 5.5M. I don't think Subban's better than Karlsson or anything, but they are somewhat close and Karlsson's a good comparable. The other thing is Josh Gorges at 3.9M. If he's worth 3.9M I don't think we'll get away with paying Subban any less than 4.75M.

I think Subban is better all-around d-man who is worth 5-6mill. I think Senators over-paid Karllson. Id made 2-year contract with 3-4mill cap space to see if he repeates his 70-point season.

 

[Joel]

You can't low ball a guy like Karlsson. The guy put up 78 points as a D-man, that's insane. If they tried to do a 3-4 million dollar contract, Karlsson would just pull a Shea Weber (take them to salary arbitration and get his money). I think 6.5M might be a slight overpayment right now, but 2 or 3 years from now it'll probably seem like a bargain, or at least fair value.

 

[Tzun]

Why is everything about the money?! I would just ask enough for myself. If i scored 70-points but team is low on money id ask like Vokoun 1.5mill.

 

[Joel]

It's easy to say that when you're not in that situation. Professional athletes have a 10-15 year earning window, and you want to maximize your pay in that time, because you never know what can happen. If he were to sign for 1 year at 1.5M, what happens if next year he blows out his knee and can never play again? 1.5M is a lot of money, yeah, but at 22 years old it's not really enough to live on for another 60+ years (assuming you don't invest it and live off the proceeds). 6.5M, on the other hand, is more than enough. It's about securing a future after your time in the NHL is over.

I know if I was in that situation I'd be trying to get the biggest contract I could. Especially if I was as highly sought after as Karlsson. I guess the other thing too, is that I'd rather see young talent like Karlsson getting 6.5M than a billionaire owner pocketing profits directly related to people being fans of Karlsson.

 

[Tzun]

It's easy to say that when you're not in that situation. Professional athletes have a 10-15 year earning window, and you want to maximize your pay in that time, because you never know what can happen. If he were to sign for 1 year at 1.5M, what happens if next year he blows out his knee and can never play again? 1.5M is a lot of money, yeah, but at 22 years old it's not really enough to live on for another 60+ years (assuming you don't invest it and live off the proceeds). 6.5M, on the other hand, is more than enough. It's about securing a future after your time in the NHL is over.

Yea your right but still 7-9mill is over the limit.

 

[Joel]

Yea your right but still 7-9mill is over the limit.

Depends on the player really, for Karlsson, yeah 7M is an overpayment. It's fair value for Doughty IMO, and would be fair value for Chara. 7.5M is what Weber gets, and that's fair value to me. 7.2M is fair value for Pronger (or, at least it would be if he weren't injured).

 

[Tzun]

You guys know where i could watch the NHL awards?

 

[Tzun]

Just one interesting thing popped into my mind. Calgary Flames they're getting old. They should trade Kipper to Leafs or Panthers maybe? Iginla+something for like Bobby Ryan? Cammaleri for some prospects? Jokinen and their 1st for better pick. Bouweester/Giordano+something for Edmontons 1st?

 

[Tzun]

Sorry for triple post but had to because these are so different posts.
Trophy winners:

Norris Trophy: Erik Karlsson
This one was a huge suprise for me because what we are looking for is best D-MAN not best offensive d-man.

Ted Lindsay: Evgeny Malkin
Not really a suprise. Hahahah Malkin sucks in English.

Jack Adams: Ken Hitchkok
Not really a suprise again but Tortorella had a chance as well.

William M. Jennings: Jaroslav Halak & Brian Elliott

Rocket Richard: Steven Stamkos

Art Ross: Evgeny Malkin

Calder Trophy: Gabriel Landeskog
Really big suprise for me. I tought Nuge will win because he had as many points as Henrique and Landy and he missed 20-games.

General Manager of the year: Doug Armstrong

NHL 13 cover athlete: Claude Giroux

Frank J. Selke: Patrice Bergeron!!!
He deserved it over Backes and Datsyuk.

Bill Masterton: Max Pacioretty
I wanted to see Joffrey to win but Max deserved it.

King Clancy: Daniel Alfredson

NHL Foundation Award: Mike Fisher

Mark Messier Leadership award: Shane Doan

Lady Byng: Brian Campbell
This trophy went to the right adress.

Vezina: Henrik Lundqvist
Didnt deserve because of team he played for. Quick should had won.

Hart: Evgeny Malkin
Again?! No he deserved it.

 

[Joel]

Draft tonight! Hoping the Canadiens take Galchenyuk or Grigorenko at #3.

 

[Tzun]

Draft tonight! Hoping the Canadiens take Galchenyuk or Grigorenko at #3.

I hope Leafs take Galchenyuk because they need that 1st line center for Kessel. You know any stream i could watch the draft from?

 

[Clytius]

Jackets just acquired Bobrovsky for draft picks. They traded three draft picks to Philly.