Nine-Year-Old Accidentally Kills Instructor With Uzi

There seems to be enough discussion of the incident to warrant its own thread.

Unless it's already run its course. Not sure if it has or not.
 
I have seen the video in youtube.personally if i were the instructor i would have not let the lil girl try full auto.i have fired a few fully automatic weapons and it is in my opinion she could have waited till she was older to try full auto.
 
The video is on YouTube and the comments are full of stupidity as usual. Who would let a small child fire a fully-automatic weapon anyway?
 
I'm not sure which one bothers me more, that people will put anything on youtube, or that people will watch anything on youtube.
 
You'd think such a video would violate YouTube's Terms of Service.
 
Well reguardless my heart goes out to both the instructor and the lil girl.the death was needless.that lil girl will carry that to her grave
 
There are people in the America thread defending the fact that a girl was allowed to fire a Uzi.

Such a tragic accident, very very sad. But it shouldn't be allowed, she's 9, 9!
 
There are people in the America thread defending the fact that a girl was allowed to fire a Uzi.

Such a tragic accident, very very sad. But it shouldn't be allowed, she's 9, 9!
There's literally nobody in the thread that said it was a good idea. I understand it can be hard to read from your high horse though.
 
There are people in the America thread defending the fact that a girl was allowed to fire a Uzi.
Rational people tend to shoot down poorly thought out emotional ideas when they do more harm than good. Some of the outcry against this event is as ridiculous as claiming that 9 year olds shouldn't be allowed near roads because 1 of them could die from something that has near zero odds of happening.

Mistakes were made, but 99% of the backlash seems like kneejerk reaction that lacks thought. She's 9, that's plenty old enough to shoot a gun safely. The result of her going to the range was far from obvious or inevitable. People half her age have gone shooting successfully, and details from the event suggest that the fault doesn't really lay with the girl.

I think what people should focus on is what went wrong. Figure that out and pass it around so that others are armed with knowledge and can prevent a repeat situation. Screaming about guns and how that one time something bad happened around them does nothing.
 
There's literally nobody in the thread that said it was a good idea. I understand it can be hard to read from your high horse though.
Rational people tend to shoot down poorly thought out emotional ideas when they do more harm than good. Some of the outcry against this event is as ridiculous as claiming that 9 year olds shouldn't be allowed near roads because 1 of them could die from something that has near zero odds of happening.

Mistakes were made, but 99% of the backlash seems like kneejerk reaction that lacks thought. She's 9, that's plenty old enough to shoot a gun safely. The result of her going to the range was far from obvious or inevitable. People half her age have gone shooting successfully, and details from the event suggest that the fault doesn't really lay with the girl.

I think what people should focus on is what went wrong. Figure that out and pass it around so that others are armed with knowledge and can prevent a repeat situation. Screaming about guns and how that one time something bad happened around them does nothing.

I didn't say anyone said it was a good idea, but there are some that defend the fact she was allowed to do it. It's not right for a 9 year old to be allowed to fire an automatic weapon. 9 is too young in my opinion. 12 or 13 is not too bad.

I have seen the video and it certainly appears that mistakes were made. That is definitely something to learn from for the future, so that guns can be used safely and young people educated. With proper training children should be allowed to fire a gun but not too young.
 
I can't see any objective reason that makes 9 too young. What specifically is different between 9 year olds and 13 year olds that makes the latter shooting OK? What about those younger than 9 that shoot successfully?

Out of curiosity, how many incidents have you heard of before now involving people shooting at age 12 or less?
 
It just makes sense to me to have an older minimum age for using a gun. It's 8 in the US right? You can't drive until you're 16, 17 or 18, so why should anyone be allowed to fire a gun at half that? Even in controlled environments under instruction.

I have not heard of an incident like this before, not one that I remember. Although that probably has to do with where I live. It does show a remarkable safety record, and how good the instructors are. But 9 just doesn't seem right to me at all.
 
This is why no one under the age of 18 should operate a gun (you can add vehicles to that as well, except motorsports cars). It's very tragic what happened and my thoughts are with the instructor's family.
 
I personally think automatic and assault weapons should be banned for civilian use completely. There's no point for a civilian in a developed nation to own an automatic or assault weapon other than to shoot people with. I'm sure they're fun to use at a shooting range. But they're too dangerous when in the wrong hands, or even when in the right hands in the wrong circumstances. This incident shows how dangerous automatic weapons can be. One slip-up and someone dies. It's the same reason why you can't have an F1 car on the road. Sure, in the hands of an F1 driver they're fairly safe, but in the hands of a 17 year old? It's too hard to control for someone who doesn't have the experience, and could easily cause one or more deaths. To drive an F1 car you need a special license which takes years of experience and training to get. And yet to shoot an automatic weapon, something even more deadly, one need merely travel to a select American shooting range at the age of 8 or above. And to buy an assault weapon in the USA? All you need is money and to look like an adult. The BBC actually proved it by having one of their editors buy an AR-15 without showing ID or getting a background check.

TL;DR: Automatic weapons should be banned for civilian use in developed nations.
 
I personally think automatic and assault weapons should be banned for civilian use completely. There's no point for a civilian in a developed nation to own an automatic or assault weapon other than to shoot people with. I'm sure they're fun to use at a shooting range. But they're too dangerous when in the wrong hands, or even when in the right hands in the wrong circumstances. This incident shows how dangerous automatic weapons can be. One slip-up and someone dies. It's the same reason why you can't have an F1 car on the road. Sure, in the hands of an F1 driver they're fairly safe, but in the hands of a 17 year old? It's too hard to control for someone who doesn't have the experience, and could easily cause one or more deaths. To drive an F1 car you need a special license which takes years of experience and training to get. And yet to shoot an automatic weapon, something even more deadly, one need merely travel to a select American shooting range at the age of 8 or above. And to buy an assault weapon in the USA? All you need is money and to look like an adult. The BBC actually proved it by having one of their editors buy an AR-15 without showing ID or getting a background check.

TL;DR: Automatic weapons should be banned for civilian use in developed nations.

You start with talking about automatic weapons and then segway into AR-15's which are just another form of semi-automatic rifle and completely irrelevant to the risks involved with automatic firearms. Automatic fire is inherently dangerous to untrained shooters for the reasons displayed in the OP. Semi automatic fire is generally not, and there is nothing inherent to an "assault weapon" that makes it any more risky than any other semi automatic rifle.

You can buy AR-15's in Canada too, they're not inherently more powerful than other rifles just because they're "military style". It's policing based on looks, the scary looking tactical grips and flashlights are the equivalent of automotive bodykits and wings. Functional in some cases when used for specific purposes, but most of the time they're the gun equivalent to a Civic with a body kit and stock engine.

That's really the best analogy I can come up with, a 9 year old dies in a Viper on a race track, and then someone proposes we ban all the riced out Civics because nobody needs a race car for the road.
 
You start with talking about automatic weapons and then segway into AR-15's which are just another form of semi-automatic rifle and completely irrelevant to the risks involved with automatic firearms. Automatic fire is inherently dangerous to untrained shooters for the reasons displayed in the OP. Semi automatic fire is generally not, and there is nothing inherent to an "assault weapon" that makes it any more risky than any other semi automatic rifle.

You can buy AR-15's in Canada too, they're not inherently more powerful than other rifles just because they're "military style". It's policing based on looks, the scary looking tactical grips and flashlights are the equivalent of automotive bodykits and wings. Functional in some cases when used for specific purposes, but most of the time they're the gun equivalent to a Civic with a body kit and stock engine.

That's really the best analogy I can come up with, a 9 year old dies in a Viper on a race track, and then someone proposes we ban all the riced out Civics because nobody needs a race car for the road.

I'm aware of what an AR-15 is. It's a tool designed purely for harming and killing people. Assault weapons are not dangerous for the reasons automatics are, but why should civilians be allowed to have them? There's no point other than for attacking other people.

An AR-15 is just an example. The only weapons civians will ever "need" are hunting grade weapons, either low powered or single action, or both.

High powered weapons are generally only for show or for crime. When you go hunting you only need one or two shots, and in a self defence situation you only need one or two well placed shots from a low powered handgun, rifle, or shotgun.
 
I can't really fathom why that man was teaching a 9-year old to fire a weapon in the first place. What was she going to do with that know-how? It just doesn't seem to me like the type of thing that should be taught at such a young age in a safe, civilized country like the US.
 
This is why no one under the age of 18 should operate a gun (you can add vehicles to that as well, except motorsports cars). It's very tragic what happened and my thoughts are with the instructor's family.

But when you learn to drive you don't really start with a 700Hp AWD supercar do you, same rules apply.

Start with a weaker easier to control car/gun then upgrade later.
 
I'm aware of what an AR-15 is. It's a tool designed purely for harming and killing people. Assault weapons are not dangerous for the reasons automatics are, but why should civilians be allowed to have them? There's no point other than for attacking other people..
Wrong. Can you honestly not even consider any other purpose that someone would want one than killing people? These things get bought outside of America too, the guns you see at gun clubs in the US are the same as the ones you'll see here, and nobody buys them to attack people in either country.

I can buy all the same assault weapons that an American can. What I can't buy in the same way are handguns, and those are what make up the bulk of the gun deaths in the US. What I find strange is that you're reasonably OK with handguns for personal defense, yet they're used for murder more than any other method in the US. It seems odd to me when the discussion hinges on purpose built for killing, it becomes centered around guns that are a drop in the US gun violence bucket (we're talking ~300 murders using rifles and 6000+ with handguns).

An AR-15 is just an example. The only weapons civians will ever "need" are hunting grade weapons, either low powered or single action, or both.High powered weapons are generally only for show or for crime. When you go hunting you only need one or two shots, and in a self defence situation you only need one or two well placed shots from a low powered handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

So where is the line drawn when it's too powerful? The way you're using high powered suggests to me that you don't know how this stuff all works. The round an AR-15 uses is actually fairly low powered in the grand scheme of things, substantially less powerful than the rounds that any of the standard issue rifles in WWI used.Most people wouldn't even consider it enough for deer hunting, they'll use shotguns or a .308 (M21) or a 30-06 (M1 Garand). Get into moose, elk, or bear hunting and people regularly use even more powerful rounds.

Civilians use AR-15's for hunting, defense, and sport shooting for various reasons. Mostly it's a combination of the accuracy, low recoil, and light weight of the rifle. Two of those 3 are the qualities of the round it fires, and that doesn't change whether it's an AR-15 or one of the hundreds of other guns that use the same round (both sporting and assault weapon type). AR-15's in particular are a convenient platform for a sport shooter because accessories and parts are affordable and easy to work with. The overlap in this case is that military and sport shooting (and defense) uses are similar in their requirements.

Once again, it's the Honda Civic of the gun community, right down to there being an equivalent to the V8 muscle guys that think they're not powerful enough and a real man uses a .30 calibre. All the pistol grips, foregrips, flashlights, lasers, and other "tactical" stuff that you'll see attached to them are the fartcan and ricer bodykit of the gun world. It's often just stuff to look cool with mild practicality, just like ricers want their unmodified cars to look/sound fast, and they don't make the rifle any more powerful or capable.

I'm not trying to just go gun nerd on you here and argue about semantics. I'm bringing up specifics because they're important to this discussion. There are a ton of misconceptions about assault weapons and their capabilities that can influence this kind of discussion. Think of a round as a car's engine, just as the same engine might go into a small car, full size car, and minivan, the same round might be used in an assault, bolt action, and other types of rifles.
 
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I say she should have only been allowed to fire on semi auto. I've shot a few fully automatic guns and they are a handful.
 
I can't really fathom why that man was teaching a 9-year old to fire a weapon in the first place. What was she going to do with that know-how?
I'm guessing that it was a novelty holiday thing. You know, you pay $150 and you get a ride-along in a rally car. But here, you pay $X and get to fire a machine pistol.
 
Oh boy the "assault weapon" people are back.

@Beeblebrox237, using that term is probably the quickest way to show that you are completely clueless about the actual function and capability of firearms.

We have a Guns thread if you want to discuss policy rather than the incident. Then again, starting that up again would just amount to quoting the last time your argument got destroyed...
 
The reason why banning automatic weapons now won't work, is because all you're doing at this point is taking them away from the responsible people who would follow the law. The criminals who buy automatic weapons illegally (And force people to buy legal ones to protect themselves) would just keep there illegal guns
 
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