Nintendo Switch

[yabiggoose]

That's because Nintendo takes an alternative approach to games during the Wii and Wii U. They like to make their consoles more accessible and focus on new ways to play without making it expensive and gimmicky. Granted they went too far with the Wii U and only marketed the Gamepad and not even games which is where you see them paying the price. Not to mention Nintendo are the only company now that supports Free Online and Backwards Compatibility.
.

Not 100% true on the BC front, it is on the Xbone. Admittedly not every game but it is still there.

 

[Luminis]

Last year Nintendo claimed the NX is a "third pillar" system

Simple Nintendo bosses have stated the 3DS isn't going anywhere any time soon

I didn't consider that. My bad.

The total unification makes sense, in a lot of ways. However, I still think that, in the grand scheme of things, it seems a little weird to have a home console, a handheld and a home console / handheld hybrid. They somehow need to retain something unique about the Wii U and the 3DS if they're supposed to sell alongside a system that can play the games of both at home as well as on the go. Granted, people quite often have desktops, laptops, tablets and smart phones all at once and they, obviously, have a lot of overlap. Much like the NX, the Wii U and the 3DS might end up having, so it's not like that's unheard of. I'm not yet convinced that that concept also works for dedicated gaming devices, though...

 

[Wolfe]

Nintendo Enthusiast just posted a couple more interesting rumors. First, that the NX will be "cheaper than anyone expects" and targeting the mass market. Second, that it will be compatible with Nintendo's mobile apps like Miitomo and the upcoming Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem apps (but presumably not Pokémon GO because that's not a Nintendo app).

NE also posted a speculative article which makes a pretty good point:

...Another important factor which is often overlooked is the packaging. If the NX actually is a mobile platform with a TV-connected base, it should be able to fit into a small box. In fact, publishers like Nintendo often pay retailers like BestBuy and Walmart to promote their products and expand shelf-space. Perhaps it would be wise for Nintendo to pay Walmart to have a small NX package available at every electronics check-out point.

Perhaps someone is buying a TV, and the salesperson would say:

"Hey, there’s this new Nintendo platform. It has Netflix and Amazon Prime streaming. It’s only $199 and it plays all sorts of Nintendo games like Mario Kart and Smash Bros. Oh, and you can take it on the go! So, your children can use it in the car as a handheld platform."

How would an affordable console like that not sell like hot cakes? With a low price and a nice package, the NX could easily pass as an easy impulse purchase.

Could they actually recapture some of the big casual audience they lost while serving hardcore fans with traditional handheld/Gamepad-esque interface?

Now I'm a bit worried like @Brend that the NX won't be quite as interesting as it could be for fans like us, but if it's comfortably large enough for my hands and the home experience is as smooth as the Wii U, I don't think I'll complain.

 

[Brend]

Nintendo Enthusiast just posted a couple more interesting rumors. First, that the NX will be "cheaper than anyone expects" and targeting the mass market. Second, that it will be compatible with Nintendo's mobile apps like Miitomo and the upcoming Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem apps (but presumably not Pokémon GO because that's not a Nintendo app).

NE also posted a speculative article which makes a pretty good point:


Could they actually recapture some of the big casual audience they lost while serving hardcore fans with traditional handheld/Gamepad-esque interface?

Now I'm a bit worried like @Brend that the NX won't be quite as interesting as it could be for fans like us, but if it's comfortably large enough for my hands and the home experience is as smooth as the Wii U, I don't think I'll complain.

I just want some solid information to be honest. Nintendo are fair holding this one out.

 

[Lain]

If the Tegra X1 information turns out to be true, I see no reason why the system couldn't be $200... that's the MSRP of the NVIDIA Shield TV box that also uses the Tegra X1 chip. A screen will add to the cost, but I assume the production cost will still be under $200 overall.

Plus, I imagine Ninty's getting a minty deal on those chips, since NVIDIA is probably getting a bit uneasy about AMD's console dominance. And the Shield is a set-top box with a remote and a bulky game controller, so the NX will also be able to save money on production costs by using less materials than the Shield. And the NX will probably use SD/MicroSD like the 3DS as opposed to the base mode Shield's built-in 16GB flash storage... so Nintendo can cheap out there with maybe a 4-16GB card, and allow users who need more storage to upgrade at a later date and at their own expense.

Heck, maybe if Nintendo gets with the times and realizes that Sony and MS's strategy of taking a loss on a console at launch is actually very smart, we might even see a base model at around $150-179.


Anyway... for fun, I decided to make my own mock-up based on my interpretation of the rumors.

Poorly-drawn diagram:

Scale comparison the some assorted devices that I drew inspiration from:

(Assorted devices are: Wii U Gamepad, New 3DS XL, PS Vita 2000 Model, Wiimote, Nexus 7, and Apple TV Siri Remote)

 

[Sanji Himura]

And the NX will probably use SD/MicroSD like the 3DS as opposed to the base mode Shield's built-in 16GB flash storage... so Nintendo can cheap out there with maybe a 4-16GB card, and allow users who need more storage to upgrade at a later date and at their own expense.

Not so fast. Just watch:

 

[Luminis]

Could they actually recapture some of the big casual audience they lost while serving hardcore fans with traditional handheld/Gamepad-esque interface?

That's gotta be tough. Personal impression, but recapturing that super-casual audience that made up large chunks of the sales of the Wii and DS probably means competing with the iOS/Android gaming market. That's a considerable uphill battle, since everybody and their mother has a smartphone these days

Heck, maybe if Nintendo gets with the times and realizes that Sony and MS's strategy of taking a loss on a console at launch is actually very smart, we might even see a base model at around $150-179.

I thought MS and Sony went with Nintendo's approach (for the XB1 and the PS4, at least) and attempted to make profits on hardware sales from day one Be that as it may, Nintendo hasn't been participating in the processing power arms race since 2001, so I don't think they need to sell the NX at a loss. Cutting the hardware short to meet their target price seems more in-line with what they've been doing previously, or so I believe.

 

[Wolfe]

That's gotta be tough. Personal impression, but recapturing that super-casual audience that made up large chunks of the sales of the Wii and DS probably means competing with the iOS/Android gaming market. That's a considerable uphill battle, since everybody and their mother has a smartphone these days

Kimishima has said he thought the Wii U would be a tough sell to consumers of the Wii because they were already content with the Wii. He may have the same thought about competing against mobile gaming, but while those consumers are hooked on mobile software, they've proven to be very willing to buy new devices all the time.

So the NX might simply sell itself on its feature set and form factor while the casual audience only uses it for a handful of "real" games, like an Xbox that is used for Netflix more than anything else. The Wii was back when Nintendo still thought a console should only be about games, even though it had a Netflix Channel and stuff.

 

[Luminis]

they've proven to be very willing to buy new devices all the time.

This is what I'm perceiving as the core issue; you're absolutely right, people throw oodles of money at smartphones and they're buying them at a maddening rate (in my opinion). Buying a new phone every other year and shelling out more than what a fully-fledged home console costs is perceived as normal by a lot of people. However, from my understanding, those phones don't solely sell based on their set of features, but also on the drive of the target audience to always possess the latest and greatest in smartphone status symbols. From personal experience, people will question one's decision to fork over $200 for a 3DS but they won't ever think twice about spending twice that on a phone. It might sound like a cop-out on my part, but I really do believe that dedicated gaming devices aren't nearly as socially accepted as smartphones. As such, the audience might be willing to buy new phones, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're as eager to buy gaming hardware.

Some sort of mobile Netflix device that plugs into any TV you might run across sounds like a plan. A handheld that doubles as a portable media hub, maybe. I'll be honest, I don't know whether that's something current phones won't do, but... Eh, I don't know. The sheer ubiquity of smartphones makes it feel like it's neither easy to sell dedicated gaming devices to the super-casual audience, nor do I know whether it's profitable to try (considering the chances of success, of course).

 

[Lain]

Not so fast. Just watch:

Hmm? I was talking about the NX's internal storage. Of course the physical media will be a proprietary cartridge and could have significantly more storage capacity.

I thought MS and Sony went with Nintendo's approach (for the XB1 and the PS4, at least) and attempted to make profits on hardware sales from day one Be that as it may, Nintendo hasn't been participating in the processing power arms race since 2001, so I don't think they need to sell the NX at a loss. Cutting the hardware short to meet their target price seems more in-line with what they've been doing previously, or so I believe.

MS and Sony went with a "try to get it as close to breaking even" approach this gen. The PS4 and Xbox One were both slightly cheaper to manufacture than their MSRP (about $15 and $30 respectively), but taking into account other factors (shipping, support, honoring warranties, advertising, etc) they were likely just breaking even, give or take a few dollars. Certainly not Nintendo's traditional approach of making their systems very firmly in the green.

And you don't sell systems at a loss just to be able to cram in as much power as possible. You sell them at a loss to get the biggest possible initial install base to make your platform enticing for developers. Right now Nintendo is in a position where they need this system to be a success, otherwise the'll probably have to bow out of the hardware game. And when you're currently the 3rd wheel in the console market and your bread and butter is the slightly niche handheld market, the price needs to be very competitive to pique the interest of consumers.

 

[Com Fox]

And you don't sell systems at a loss just to be able to cram in as much power as possible. You sell them at a loss to get the biggest possible initial install base to make your platform enticing for developers. Right now Nintendo is in a position where they need this system to be a success, otherwise the'll probably have to bow out of the hardware game. And when you're currently the 3rd wheel in the console market and your bread and butter is the slightly niche handheld market, the price needs to be very competitive to pique the interest of consumers.

Not sure you're aware but sales wise the Wii U is actually have more of its units sold than the Xbox ONE, and "niche" isn't a word I'd describe the handheld market when this gen, it is around the 70 million of the 3DS and PSVita combined when the main consoles Xbox ONE, Wii U and PS4 are just nearly out of the 60 million.

Not saying the Wii U was a success, 13 million isn't something to be proud of when the predecessor hit over 100 million, in fact all of this gen's consoles are doing 🤬 compared to their last gen counterparts.

Also processing power = more successful console is absurd. The only reason why the PS4 is the only console that isn't sucking at sales (except 3DS) is because Microsoft scared people with the original Xbox ONE plans and Nintendo spent all their marketing on the Gamepad and not the actual console or its games that are in the works. Outside of this gen, the most powerful console has never won the console wars.

If Nintendo learned from their mistakes and actually focus on the games coming out on the console and not focus much on its gimmick, then their should be more interest in the console.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles (while it is wikipedia, it comes with references from other sites with details.)

 

[Lain]

Wii U was launched a whole year before Xbox One, the Xbox One sales figures are a vague "> 10 Million", plus the Microsoft sales figure is circa 2014 whereas the Wii U's has been updated as of 2016. Never mind the fact that the Xbox One, while priced near its actual production cost, certainly wasn't priced anywhere near what someone would consider "competitive" when the more compelling PS4 was $100 cheaper.

And when I said that handhelds are slightly niche, all I meant was that most people are going to need compelling reasons why they should buy one when they've got a smartphone capable of gaming. A solid line-up of games is one reason, but it won't stop a high pricetag dissuading a lot of purchases. And when a device's function isn't really seen as anything special anymore (mobile gaming), what the general population will perceive as a "high" price will be devalued. Hence why the 3DS rather quickly got its price slashed when initial sales weren't up to snuff.

 

[Wolfe]

I thought the 3DS's problem was that it was originally priced like a home console, not that its function was being compared to phones. I suppose the two aren't mutually exclusive, and they reflect the reaction of gamers and the general population respectively.

 

[Com Fox]

I thought the 3DS's problem was that it was originally priced like a home console, not that its function was being compared to phones. I suppose the two aren't mutually exclusive, and they reflect the reaction of gamers and the general population respectively.

I thought its problem was that, not only price but that no one wanted a console with only Zelda 3D and Nintendogs + Cats as a bunch of 3DS games were released during the holidays.

 

[Lain]

Yes you're right, the price ($250... not quite home console launch price, but that's what the XB1's now going for these days) was the biggest reason why the 3DS's sales were so abysmal at launch. (That and the rough launch lineup @RESHIRAM5 mentioned)

And now that smartphone gaming is much more ubiquitous these days, it might not take a $250 price tag to make most people scoff at the thought of a purchase... even $200 might be be too high for most to justify it. Even though I'm of the opinion that Nintendo should price it at a loss, they're far too stubborn for that... At best they'll price it so that they just break even, which could be as low as $170.

Anyway, re-did my diagram for fun:

 

[Wolfe]

The Wii was $250, and every Nintendo console and handheld before it was $200 or less. That's also why the Wii U's price was a bit of a problem even before anyone could compare it to the PS4/XBone.

 

[Earth]

Just realized how heavy the thing is going to be. The Wii U gamepad is heavy enough to bother you during extensive gameplay sessions. I bet this new thing will be even heavier and even more of a pain if you play longer then 30 or so minutes. It doesnt work as a portable device IMO.

They should have just made a normal console

 

[Lain]

Alright, so something that popped up a while ago that most seem to have forgotten... Nintendo's patents regarding "supplemental computing devices" and cloud-based sharing of your supplemental computing.

So how I think it'll work is something a bit like this: There's two versions of the NX, a handheld and a set-top box. Not unlike the PS Vita and Playstation TV. Of course you only need one or the other but, if you happen to have both, they can supplement each other's computational power and provide a superior experience.

Furthermore, users will be encouraged to share their device's computational power on the cloud when they're not actively using it (this may be exclusive to the set-top box since sharing a mobile device's power is logistically more challenging with battery life being a concern)... so if you don't happen to have both, you can still enjoy enhanced power by tapping into the cloud.

Games will have to be able to run on an individual NX unit by itself, but realistically that shouldn't be a problem... every gaming experience today ought to be able to run on it (even if the graphics have to be scaled back). And by allowing the devices to pair together and increase the platform's capability, the games will be able to scale the graphics back up to modern console levels.

I think there will be 3 SKUs... the handheld, the box with a standard controller, and the box bundled with the handheld.

Price guesses would be (minimum/probable):
Handheld ($150/$180)
Box + Controller ($100/$150)
Box + Handheld ($230/$300)

 

[Com Fox]

Just realized how heavy the thing is going to be. The Wii U gamepad is heavy enough to bother you during extensive gameplay sessions. I bet this new thing will be even heavier and even more of a pain if you play longer then 30 or so minutes. It doesnt work as a portable device IMO.

They should have just made a normal console

The gamepad never bothered me whenever I extensively played Mario Kart or Smash Bros. the ZR ZL placement allowed my fingers to keep balance when sitting to play games and lying down while gaming is always easy.

As for just making a "normal console" Nintendo can't win at that game, that would be suicide, the Gamecube proved that it isn't going to work as their is just too much competition, as when making a "normal console" you can't do anything to make it distinguishable from another "normal console" anymore (controllers use to do it, but they are hardly unique anymore). Not to mention nowadays, Sony and Microsoft are trying compete against PC which is causing upgraded version which is putting hefty prices on these consoles. Nintendo can't go that route.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Just realized how heavy the thing is going to be. The Wii U gamepad is heavy enough to bother you during extensive gameplay sessions. I bet this new thing will be even heavier and even more of a pain if you play longer then 30 or so minutes. It doesnt work as a portable device IMO.

They should have just made a normal console

Nothing official has been shown yet. Just interpretations of what people think.

 

[Luminis]

Certainly not Nintendo's traditional approach of making their systems very firmly in the green. [...] And you don't sell systems at a loss just to be able to cram in as much power as possible. You sell them at a loss to get the biggest possible initial install base to make your platform enticing for developers.

The approach is similar, though (namely: target costing), regardless of motive and margin of profit. Base the price on what (you believe) the market is willing to pay, consider desired profit margin and pick your hardware based on that. Sony and MS didn't seem to adhere to that during previous generations.

As for just making a "normal console" Nintendo can't win at that game, that would be suicide, the Gamecube proved that it isn't going to work

And the Wii U proved that having some innovative stand-out feature isn't going make your console sell itself, either.

Nintendo's strength lies in its IPs, I'd say. Regardless of what their console is like, having it backed up by a solid line-up of your biggest, best known franchises at launch ought to be a no-brainer. Launch the new console with an exclusive Zelda, exclusive Smash Brothers, exclusive Mario title and the Pokémon MMORPG people have been screaming for for years (I know that isn't happening) and I firmly believe it's going to sell, regardless of whether it's a traditional console or not. And I agree with @Lain, sell it at a loss to max out the installation base. The third parties will come afterwards.

 

[Com Fox]

And the Wii U proved that having some innovative stand-out feature isn't going make your console sell itself, either.

Nintendo's strength lies in its IPs, I'd say. Regardless of what their console is like, having it backed up by a solid line-up of your biggest, best known franchises at launch ought to be a no-brainer. Launch the new console with an exclusive Zelda, exclusive Smash Brothers, exclusive Mario title and the Pokémon MMORPG people have been screaming for for years (I know that isn't happening) and I firmly believe it's going to sell, regardless of whether it's a traditional console or not. And I agree with @Lain, sell it at a loss to max out the installation base. The third parties will come afterwards.

I say it is a balance. I'm not saying just a unique console will help Nintendo solely but making it more traditional would be to comparible to make any profit even with amazing IPs. The Wii U overshot the balance the other way of the spectrum being so almight about its features.

You need a balance between something that works and something distinguishable (this also includes games too like Nintendo IPs). I do think if the NX had an amazing lineup that is promoted first instead of the actually console then it would do well.

 

[Luminis]

You need a balance between something that works and something distinguishable

Yes and no.

We're talking marketing here. What you need is a unique selling proposition, one that obviously appeals to your potential customers. It really doesn't matter what that is. It might be hardware, it might be the OS, it might be the games, it might even be just the image or the design. Distinguishability is a considerable factor, but hardware doesn't need to be the distinguishing factor, as can be seen between Sony and Microsoft at the moment. The hardware is largely identical, as is the overall concept of the consoles. The differences come from the game libraries (software), pricing and image, mostly (or so I think).

This isn't to say that an innovative / unconventional concept is necessarily detrimental. It might work out just fine. However, I'd guess that, typically, you'd also incur higher R&D costs by going with an unconventional design and maybe higher manufacturing costs (adding a screen to the Wii U's controller is bound to jack up the manufacturing costs for the controllers, for example). Whether that's worth it ought to be determined by some proper, in-depth market research, obviously, but my current impression is that an unconventional design doesn't sway considerable chunks of the market either way.

I know the Wii was hugely successful and was featuring an unconventional design - but correlation doesn't imply causation, as they say, which, I think, Nintendo themselves kinda forgot. Which, then, made them come up with the Wii U...

 

[Brend]

The Wii was $250, and every Nintendo console and handheld before it was $200 or less. That's also why the Wii U's price was a bit of a problem even before anyone could compare it to the PS4/XBone.

Over in the UK, the 3DS launched for a staggering £230 with games launching at £40 RRP. Absolutely insane, the only game I owned for it for the first amount of months was Ridge Racer. It was a horrific launch in every sense of the word.

 

[Wolfe]

@RESHIRAM5 @Luminis -- I think you're both right. I always say that hardware is nothing without software, and that's what Nintendo is working on right this minute, putting together a compelling launch lineup to draw people whatever the NX is, instead of making a "normal" console and expecting games to flood in from other publishers and Playstation/Xbox fans to flock over. The third parties that vocally snubbed the Wii U wouldn't follow up on their demands for parity in hardware until after the console is a success first, and the "if only Nintendo made a normal damn console with no gimmicks for once, I would..." refrain is mostly hollow.

 

[Lain]

A bit of info I just found slightly perturbs the NX concept I came up with.

Now, I generally take any official word from Nintendo on the NX with a grain of salt, since I tend to assume they're just putting political spin on things so they don't undermine the sales of their current systems... but Miyamoto stated something in late June which piques my interest.

"There's an idea that we're working on. That's why we can't share anything at this point, and I don't want to comment on the other companies. If it was just a matter of following advancements in technology, things would be coming out a lot quicker

The other companies? Matters not involving technological advancement?

Hmm.

That makes me think. What if... it really is just a home console?

The controllers might look something like this:

It'd be a bit disappointing if all this buzz about portability was all for naught, however... so what if these partnerships with "other companies" allowed you to do this?

(Insert Android device there if that's your preference)

Now this raises some questions. Would this genuinely turn your smartphone/tablet into a bonafide NX Portable, or does it just alllow you to use it as a Wii U-style NX Gamepad?

My guess is... both. If you have a smartphone that is powerful enough, then yes it'll act as an NX Portable (presumably the controllers will contain a cartridge slot for this purpose, or there will be some additional accessory that serves that purpose). If you've got a less capable smartphone, games might play with reduced graphics or your phone might be limited to just serving the role of a glorified Wii U Gamepad.

All my previous speculation (not baseless mind you, considering N filed patents about this) about devices sharing compute power could still apply. You get home, you plug your phone in to charge... oh, except now you plug it into your NX so that your phone can share its processing power whilst charging.

 

[Sanji Himura]

IT'S HAPPENING!!!

 

[Luminis]

IT'S HAPPENING!!!

What's happening? Two guys at a kitchen table discussing NX rumours?

 

[Sanji Himura]

What's happening? Two guys at a kitchen table discussing NX rumours?

It was more confirmation that we have now compared to last week, admittedly.

There is supposedly going to be an unveiling around September, I think at Tokyo Game Show (September 15th to 18th), and the device is going to be marketed more as a handheld than a console which could mean that Nintendo could be out of the dedicated console race, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Nintendo for years has the market cornered on the handheld market, and if a three pony race becomes a two pony race, Nintendo could create a very nice corner for itself in the handheld department, which is already dominated by the 3DS and mobile phones. By being basically the only game in town in mobile gaming, Nintendo could be in the green sooner rather than later since they only have one set of hardware to develop for now.

 

[Lain]

Anyone wanna place bets on whether the NX will be unveiled at Gamescom tomorrow?

I mean, the supposed reason why it wasn't shown at E3 this year was because they feared other companies would copy their idea. But of course Nintendo has to reveal it sometime, preferably with a reasonable amount of time before it launches... So it's either now or in a month at TGS. And is it really worth waiting another month to reveal it, like that'll be the difference between companies stealing your idea and not?

I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the odds of NX being at Gamescom are 40%.... Ehh, maybe 30% actually.