Nissan cuts 9,000 jobs as its vehicles fail to sell
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Hot take: I don't see this as passing antitrust approval, at least outside of Japan.
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As Toronado said, they could probably do badge jobs or some sort of re-jiggering to keep cars they want in specific markets if they cannot run Nissan/Infiniti there. Surprisingly, both Acura and Infiniti don't seem to be thriving at this point (in my eyes).
Joey D
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Well....this aged like milk.
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I feel like part of it is also to make sure that the Nissan and Mitsubishi IPs stay with a Japanese firm, instead of ending up in the pockets of a European or Chinese company that would no doubt misuse them. And you know there are plenty of companies that are already lining up for those names if they get even the slightest chance to legally grab them.
Though not entirely unexpected. In the last 10 years or so Acuras haven't really looked that much better than the average Honda on the outside, and Infiniti's weirdly bulbous design language has been nothing but off-putting in most respects. Plus fullsize pickups are doing the "living room on wheels" gimmick much better these days for about the same cost, and are probably cheaper in terms of both insurance and maintenance.
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I meant "US won't care" as in they won't do anything to stop the merger and they are the only country whose opinion Nissan need worry about. Nissan has been signaled as the brand you go to if even Dodge won't finance you, but they still have a decent sales presence and deep retail channel. Their problem is that they are clearly and obviously still flogging cars that start at ten years old after wasting hundreds of millions of dollars they didn't really have on obvious dead ends like the second generation Titan; and thus can only compete by selling to people with room temperature credit scores and deep discounts. It's basically the situation Chrysler was in in the late 1970s (and again in the early 90s), which was turned around.
My point was more like if Nissan as a whole is threatened from existence (either liquidation or being bought out for the name) and (as the most prominent example for arbitrarily blocking corporate mergers) the CMA tries to block the merger from happening, the solution would be to just ignore them and leave the UK market than jeopardize the entire future of the company. As mentioned above, the Japanese government probably has some hand in suggesting Honda do this if the overall company is in as poor health as they've been saying publicly; and we've already seen said government treat Nissan executives like they were the 9/11 planners when Renault tried a complete takeover.
My point was more like if Nissan as a whole is threatened from existence (either liquidation or being bought out for the name) and (as the most prominent example for arbitrarily blocking corporate mergers) the CMA tries to block the merger from happening, the solution would be to just ignore them and leave the UK market than jeopardize the entire future of the company. As mentioned above, the Japanese government probably has some hand in suggesting Honda do this if the overall company is in as poor health as they've been saying publicly; and we've already seen said government treat Nissan executives like they were the 9/11 planners when Renault tried a complete takeover.
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The European part already (almost?) happened and as much I would like to see it for chaos, the Japanese government will probably fight tooth and nail to prevent them from falling into Chinese hands.
(Post delayed to avoid double posting, while also ensuring ping.)
Keef
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Let's hope they gut Nissan corporate and management staff. Honda doesn't want this to become a Boeing-McDonnell Douglas merger where they kept the Boeing brand and resources but switched to MD corporate and management staff. And that right there destroyed a once great company.
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Regarding that, Renault is presumably okay with the merger talks:
Though given they're valued higher than Nissan now, they're probably seeing this as a way to make an exit from their partnership without taking too much of a beating.
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Seems there's an interesting reason for Honda's interest being mentioned:
www.theregister.com
Given that Honda and Nissan signed a agreement to share EV development a while back, Foxconn getting a majority stake in Nissan would likely mean that Honda would be forced to use their designs in future vehicles, or at least that Foxconn would try to make the partnership more one-sided in their favor. Looks like this could be entirely a case of buying Nissan just to keep it out of someone else's hands, even if it doesn't do Honda any favors.
Fear of Foxconn reportedly driving Nissan, Honda merger talk
The EV race is well and truly running, and no-one wants to be left in the dust
Given that Honda and Nissan signed a agreement to share EV development a while back, Foxconn getting a majority stake in Nissan would likely mean that Honda would be forced to use their designs in future vehicles, or at least that Foxconn would try to make the partnership more one-sided in their favor. Looks like this could be entirely a case of buying Nissan just to keep it out of someone else's hands, even if it doesn't do Honda any favors.
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The difference is that Mercedes was performing what was functionally a corporate raid of a healthy and extremely profitable company with a model lineup that was class leading (among the domestics) and modern that they pretended was a merger and Chrysler's board cashed out to stay quiet about it and threw Chrysler's best (of the domestics) engineering staff to the wolves.
Honda gutting Nissan would be a net positive.
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It’ll definitely help Honda over here. Since the Fit/Jazz is gone, the non-Civic Type R is upmarket and I can’t see the Accord doing anything in its segment, Honda needs something. Anything to get people in the showroom.
Prelude is a start. With success of the 86/BRZ and how many people have gobbled up Mustang and MX-5, the price point needs to be right for a Honda sports coupe.
Prelude is a start. With success of the 86/BRZ and how many people have gobbled up Mustang and MX-5, the price point needs to be right for a Honda sports coupe.
CodeRedR51
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Keef
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I've always been curious why Honda never entered the full-size truck market and I don't think it would help them without hurting Nissan. The Patrol is a trusted name in the rest of the world, however due to Nissan's complete lack of market analysis the Armada has never been close to competing with other full-size SUVs in the American market, and particularly Toyota in the off-road/adventure/lifestyle full-size market.
That could possibly change with the new Armada and given that it's not a hybrid it might actually defeat the Toyota Sequoia for this adventure market, comparing the TRD Pro to the Pro-4X. Currently, the best product Nissan makes is the Frontier, and the new Armada when it goes on sale. The Pro-4X trim is an attention-getter for them whereas the rest of the lineup is completely anonymous. They should go whole-hog into this market in the US and Canada since it's so vibrant. They're going to debut a "Project X" at SEMA this next year which will undoubtedly be a revival of the Xterra name which is a good one that still gets a lot of attention in the used market.
I agree with CodeRed51 here that the Prelude is probably going to be a flop. The Civic Coupe was dropped for a reason, because even in Si trim it didn't sell enough to justify itself. The Prelude is not only a non-Si but doesn't even have the essentials that sold the Si in the first place, namely being a relatively simple enthusiast product with a manual transmission. Honda is currently finding themselves with a massive enthusiast gap below the Type R and the Prelude won't fill that. Enthusiasts are not going to buy a Civic Coupe Hybrid that literally doesn't even have a transmission at all. It's not a CVT like you said, it's an ICE+generator separated by a clutch from a traction motor, and those two units only engage the clutch at above highway speeds where tradition electric motors run out of steam. There is no transmission at all. It's actually pretty close to being a range-extended EV. It'll be a total flop just like the CR-Z was. A total misread of market demands, which seems like a colossal mistake given how well the Type R is selling. Literally all they needed to do was drop the Si drivetrain into the Prelude and it would sell buckets. Or just skip all that new development for a dumb new product and just keep making the Civic Coupe in Si trim.
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CodeRedR51
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Honestly the Sentra is a good car. Sure it doesn't have a hybrid trim, but it can still get 40+ mpg. I hit 49 mpg on my '24 SV and so far 43 mpg on my '25 SR. Still looks good, interior isn't bad, seats are comfy.
Frontier needs a bad ass offroad trim like Colorado ZR2, Canyon AT4X, etc. Pro-4X trim just isn't cutting it. But as long as they can hold on to the V6, it'll have a leg up on the other midsize trucks.
Keef
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The Prelude is going to flop first of all because it's a coupe and second because it's a hybrid coupe. Nobody wants that. The only coupes that sell are enthusiast coupes, but Honda already dropped the previous-generation Civic Coupe and Si Coupe because they weren't selling enough. If the enthusiast product wasn't selling then what makes them think they'll sell a less practical and more expensive hybrid to normies?
The main reason the enthusiast product, the previous-gen Si Coupe, wasn't selling is because of Honda's refusal to improve the platform. The current-gen Si Sedan still has a 200hp engine although for the past couple generations its been in turbo guise. Mazda has improved the Miata, Toyota has improved the 86, Honda has refused, and after literal decades of selling a Civic Si with the exact same output which eventually fell behind similar entry-level enthusiast cars, including from Hyundai. Hyundai and Toyota have stolen all of Honda's steam when it comes to enthusiast products because Honda has refused to take any risk.
What I meant by "good" is something people actually care about. I drive all these economy cars from all these OEMs all the time as rental cars and while Nissan desserves their due in making effective cars, that's literally all they are. Nissan's autopilot is rather good but besides that the cars are completely anonymous and uninspiring. None of them do the job of driving interest except for the GT-R and Pro-4X. A new Xterra would certainly be a driver, or an IDX or Silvia, although honestly an easy-to-develop SE-R trim would probably work. The enthusiast products might not sell much but they make news and get regular people interested in the brand.
Mazda in comparison makes genuinely impressive cars that stand out from the sea of Nissans and Kias et al in the rental car lot. Hell, Mazda's products and brand are so exciting that they don't even need enthusiast trims to grow sales. Their decision to finally allow fleet sales was a great one because now it's clear to rental customers how much nicer Mazda's cars are than the competition. Nissan needs something because they currently have very little. Same with Mitsubishi. A once-iconic brand that has been reduced to uninspired rubble.
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CodeRedR51
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I can agree with that. Before I got my ‘04 EP3, I was holding out because I knew Honda would do the normal update to the ‘02 in two years. Thought they would upgrade to the Type-R spec when I saw the update had five-lugs instead of the previous year four-lug. I was disappointed that wasn’t the case, but went and bought the then new ‘04 model anyway. Should have had the same output as the RSX Type-S, but it’s funny people used to ask me if my car was a new hybrid(especially when I removed the badges).
The coupe thing is a weird one as well. I asked a Mustang owner here why Mustang is the top selling sports car here. He said the price. The small back seat is a non-issue. People like the look and it comes in a fast four-cylinder and convertible options. Even with the boom in SUVs, the Mustang is still hot. It’s been on sale here for ten years.
It’s why I’m thinking the Prelude could do well for Honda here. Of course, if it does flop in the USA, that’s certain doom for the rest of the world.
Edit: @CodeRedR51 Yes!
My wife just recently drove one while her a/c in the Falcon was getting degassed. She was saying when she put her foot down it’s like the car was stuck in first gear all the time. I don’t recall it when I had one as my drive car when I worked for Mazda, but I didn’t care, as at least I wasn’t walking.
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Keef
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The reason the Ecoboost sells is because it's relatively cheap and looks cool like a genuine sports car. But in America the GT sells almost as much as the Ecoboost despite the former being propped up by fleet sales, and it does that because it's an absolute bargain of a serious sports car.
The Mustang Ecoboost starts just under $32k and has 315hp. The Civic Hybrid sedan starts just under $29k and has 200, but also just looks like a regular Civic and has no cachet at all. This Prelude doesn't look like a sports car at all, it looks like a feminine space ship just like most of Honda's bigger coupes have always looked, and it's going to have the same drivetrain. There's no way that a model planned to sell less and with a unique body design will be cheaper than the existing car, and at that point the thing is competing directly with a Mustang Ecoboost on price. It's not even a competition.
If it was an actual sports car, either an Si coupe or a legit grand touring Prelude with the previous Accord's 250hp engine it would have a chance of selling.
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