ya but you can have the stickiest tires in the world, and they wont do you $#!t unless you have good brakes. same goes for brakes tho. you can have the biggest baddest brakes ever made but if you dont have good enough tire to back up the brakes youl just lock em up, or your ABS will kick in and youll be limited by your tires.
tires and brakes are like "love and marriage, go to gether like a horse and carriage,..... you cant have one without the other"
Both quite correct points.
I've merged your double post, and would ask in future if you could not double post (use the edit button) and please watch the grammar. We do require good basic grammar when posting here, that includes using capital letters when needed.
Regards
Scaff
Tires and contact area with the road surface is Important.
Its arguably the single most important part of motorsport, hence the reason why more battles are fought over tyre choice than anything else.
WRC stages and F1 races have been won or lost over the right choice of tyre, hell with WRC stages it has often gone down to the right cut in the tread.
But bigger brakes will help stop a car faster with the same type of tyres on.
As long as the current brakes are capable of locking up the tyres (i.e. overcoming the tyres frictional limit) then fitting bigger brakes simply allows you to get to that point more easily. That does not and will not stop you any quicker.
Something stationary with a larger surface area applied to a spinning disk with a larger surface area will produce more friction. Its a law of physics. Rightly stated though is the fact that something with a larger surface area will help the brakes cool quicker and because there is more friction heat more quickly.
Yes it is physics.
Now explain to us how that gives you more grip at the tyres?
How many times have you heard of formula one drivers complaining in wet conditions they cant get the heat into the brakes. because of the physics of the game not really taking brake temp into consideration (as far as I know) brake mods dont seem that important. As far as I can tell I dont set off in a high powered car and for the first lap overshoot corners cause the brakes arent heated to optimum temp.
No one is argument that brake fade, cooling, modulation etc are not important, nor that they are not an advantage of uprated brakes (nor has anyone mentioned the down side of uprated brakes as many also exist).
However all these things allow you to repeat the brake event more consistently and with more control. Not a single one of them will reduce your overall stopping distance over and above normally functioning brakes.
I wondered also if the brake mods were left out to stop the single tyre class races been too easy to overcome with the addition of better brakes?
No because it would not have a significant effect at all without brake fade being modeled.
Hell on an average track you can gain around 2 - 3 seconds on the same tyres simply with FC suspension and the know how to set it up.
The reason that multi pot calipers are used is because the force needed on each piston is less to get the same amount of pressing power upon the disk. This as someone rightly pointed out means that since each piston is doing less work the fluid in the piston isnt put under as much pressure therefore doesnt get as hot. If the fluid doesnt get hot the brakes wont fade as badly.
Already covered above.
This only gives you the ability to repeat the braking event consistently.
As it doesn't give you any more grip at the tyres it will not reduce your stopping distance at all.
Take two cars one with stock brakes that are capable of locking the tyres up and the other with brakes uprated as much as you like.
Drive them both to 60 mph and slam on the brakes, which will stop quicker (assuming all other variables are the same) and why?
Answer - them will stop exactly the same, because the uprated brakes can't provide any more grip to the tyres than already exists.
This is all covered in detail in both the pieces of material I linked to, so you have either not read it or you have not understood it.
I do love it when pepole dispute this despite brake manufacturers thenselves clearly stating it. Both the pieces I linked to above come from Stop-Tech a brake manufacturer.
Brembo say this on the subject.....
Q - Where can I find test data on stopping distances?
A - At the speeds that stopping distance is generally measured from (60 to 70mph), the test is primarily testing the tire's grip on the pavement. As delivered from the manufacturer, nearly all vehicles are able to engage the ABS or lock the wheels at these speeds. Therefore, an increase in braking power will do nothing to stop the vehicle in a shorter distance. For this reason, we do not record stopping distances at this time. The Brembo systems will show their greatest advantages when braking from higher speeds, or when tasked with repeated heavy braking. The increased braking torque provides for maximum deceleration at speed, and the ability to absorb and quickly dissipate the intense heat generated during repeated braking insures that the braking system will perform at the same high level each time.
Source -
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/HighPerformance-Brakes/FAQs/
Now here is a challenge for you, find me a brake manufacturer (one that supplies both road and race) that will in writing state categorically that bigger brakes will always stop you quicker.
I've shown you two world class manufacturers (including arguably the most renowned one of all) that clearly disagree with you. One of which shows the physics of the braking event and that states....
The Physics of Braking
Assuming that there is adequate traction (friction) between the tire and the road to accommodate the drivers braking request, the tire will develop slip in order to react the torque found in the rotating assembly
Source = Link in previous post
....once again clearly stating that the limiting factor in determining stopping distance (in a functioning braking system) is the road / tyre interface.
Scaff
check Newtons law if you dont believe me.
