No current model car looks better than its prior generation.
- Thread starter Duke
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Here's one to argue: the mustang. the newer version is a lot better than the boat it replaced. there are varying opinions on this, of course. Another one is the Murcielago. I love it's styling compared to the diablo. once again, IMO. To validate your point, the evo 8 is an ugly mug. the 7 was too, but prettier than this one. Another validation of point: WRX. need I say more? for whatever reason, I like the bug-eyes, but the 04 version looks like a girls car. Another Validation, the impala. Ugh!
*edit* I forgot the 7 series Beemer. Also one to argue. I think they both have their highs and lows.
*edit* I forgot the 7 series Beemer. Also one to argue. I think they both have their highs and lows.
///M-Spec
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Mazda 6. Far, far better looking than the plain jane 626.
A4 and A8. Incremental improvement on previous generations. New S4 is pretty hot looking.
Merecedes. Everything. They ALL look better these days.. especially the E and SL.
Civic. Not that they're all that good looking, but they don't look any worse than they did before. I actually like the way the new Si looks.
Focus. Worlds better looking than the steaming pile it replaced, the Escort.
Corolla. Big leap over older model. Doesn't have that ovid ****box look every compact car had in the 90s.
BMW 5, 6 series. There, I said it. I'm a big fan of the new 5 and the new 6 gives me wood. Way more character and charisma than play-it-safe E39 body.
///M-Spec
A4 and A8. Incremental improvement on previous generations. New S4 is pretty hot looking.
Merecedes. Everything. They ALL look better these days.. especially the E and SL.
Civic. Not that they're all that good looking, but they don't look any worse than they did before. I actually like the way the new Si looks.
Focus. Worlds better looking than the steaming pile it replaced, the Escort.
Corolla. Big leap over older model. Doesn't have that ovid ****box look every compact car had in the 90s.
BMW 5, 6 series. There, I said it. I'm a big fan of the new 5 and the new 6 gives me wood. Way more character and charisma than play-it-safe E39 body.
///M-Spec
GilesGuthrie
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I think that the 2003 VW Passat is better than the previous incarnations. The new A8, A4 and A3 are all better looking than their predecessors. Staying on the German theme, one has to say (and I suspect this will be on Neon_Duke's list) the Mercedes SL is lightyears ahead of its predecessor.
Fiat Stilo > Bravo
Renault new Megane > old Megane
New Range Rover > Old Range Rover
And I disagree with kazesupra: I think that Evo 7/8 are better looking than Evo 6.
I think that
Impreza 2 < Impreza 1
BMW 5 series < 5 Series
7 series < 7 series
Jeep Cherokee < Cherokee
Fiat Stilo > Bravo
Renault new Megane > old Megane
New Range Rover > Old Range Rover
And I disagree with kazesupra: I think that Evo 7/8 are better looking than Evo 6.
I think that
Impreza 2 < Impreza 1
BMW 5 series < 5 Series
7 series < 7 series
Jeep Cherokee < Cherokee
I dissagree there Giles, the Evo 8 doesn't look 1/2 as nice as the 7, but yes the 7 looks better than the 6.
On the other hand, the new Z series looks alot better than the prior Z series, 350z Vs 300z. Not only that the new Civic's the Ep chassis Civic's look a hell of alot better than the Ek civic's....Ek's ...ewww..
On the other hand, the new Z series looks alot better than the prior Z series, 350z Vs 300z. Not only that the new Civic's the Ep chassis Civic's look a hell of alot better than the Ek civic's....Ek's ...ewww..
For the most part I like designs, but there are some designs that are simply, ugly no matter how good the car is. I love the W16 to death, and I love buggatti and italian styling, but the Veyron looks horrible, and it doesn't even have a radio/anything........
The Infinity G35 isn't the nicest looking/sounding car either IMHO, however the 350Z looks great. The Retro Mustangs look like crap, but the newer lambo's look good
The Infinity G35 isn't the nicest looking/sounding car either IMHO, however the 350Z looks great. The Retro Mustangs look like crap, but the newer lambo's look good
There's like six thousand exceptions. Observe:
Acura CL (the old one was average, this is slightly better)
Acura NSX (looks vaguely different, but slightly better)
Audi A4 (all generations look good, though the new one looks better and brings it back up-to-date)
Audi A8 (as per A4)
BMW Z4 (very arguable, but I think the Z4's better)
Cadillac CTS (it's not cute, but the Catera was simply boring)
Cadillac Escalade/Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon/Chevrolet Suburban (as per A4 - nobody ever called any generation of these things 'ugly.' Obscene, maybe, for the Escalade - but not ugly)
Chevrolet Avalanche (old one wasn't too bad in my opinion, but even with my weird views, the de-cladded model is infinitely better)
Chevrolet Trailblazer/GMC Envoy (as per A4; Envoy replaced Jimmy, and all Bravadas since the original 91-94 suck)
Chevrolet Malibu ('04 looks better than the plain vanilla version currently on sale...)
Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon (as per A4)
Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra (I know you hate it, but popular opinion differs from yours - quite often, actually
)Chevrolet Equinox (replaces Tracker next year)
Dodge Viper (as per the correct request of 69dodge_charger - it really is an improvement, and the old one was very, very cool)
Ford Expedition (I never liked the original; current one outclasses everything in looks, ride, price, and standard features)
Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer (as per A4, especially in higher trim levels - lower Explorer levels have that ugly grey bumper insert on the rear quarter that looks out of place)
Ford F150 (as per A4)
Ford Thunderbird (the old one plainly sucked; anything was an improvement)
Honda Accord (I know you don't agree, but I think it's an improvement over the sheer boredom of the old one)
Honda Pilot (replaced Passport, which was a boring Isuzu clone)
Hyundai Tiburon (six zillion times better than the previous models? An exception in anybody's book)
Hyundai XG350 (XG300 was weird - XG350 is slightly less so)
Infiniti Q45 (both generations since the original were odd, the new one looks better than the last one, and buyers tend to agree)
Jaguar XJ (as per A4)
Kia Sorento (anything's better than the Sportage...)
Range Rover (as per A4 and Tiburon - just a good style)
Lexus RX330 (don't have to agree - I like it better because, for me, the old one appeared dated in 2000)
Lincoln Navigator (the old one was average; the new one conveys the right image for Lincoln - obscene wealth. The kind of thing that makes me rich)
Mazda 6 (even if you think it's ugly, which few do - have you seen a 626 recently? Ick! My 6 is downstairs...)
Mercedes CLK (one of the more favourable recent German redesigns, plus, they let the old one go on too long)
Mercedes E-class (as per CLK)
Mercedes SL-class (as per CLK - see a theme?)
Mitsubishi Endeavor (assuming it replaces Montero)
Mitsubishi Galant ('04 kicks ass stylistically, but is still way off in terms of engines - I hate this mediocre bull**** we keep being fed from Mitsubishi)
Mitsubishi Lancer (as per A4; replaced Mirage)
Nissan Altima (old ones were boring - in my opinion, this was the best-ever redesign of a car in so many ways, mostly because of what it made the competiton catch up to... the mark of a good redesign)
Pontiac Grand Prix (as per A4)
Saab 9-3 (as per A4)
Subaru Forester (as per A4; for some reason this point is debatable but I think it should go uncontested - the new one looks slightly above average, the old one looked average - that's Subaru, don't expect more)
Subaru Impreza (first the '02 and '03, then the '04)
Toyota Corolla (debatable, as it should be - it isn't that good, but the old one had an original design that was coming up on a decade - needed replacement)
Volkswagen Passat (no debate here, I assume)
Volvo S60/V70 (replaced the 850/S70; as per A4)
Volvo S80 (replaced the 960/V90; as per A4)
I'm ready to debate any one of these points - bring it on, Dukeface (or anybody).
EDIT: I'm tired, so I chose not to add in the new 5- and 7-series. I'm just sick of having that argument.
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And you didn't include the Dodge Viper SRT-10, being a big dodge car fan, I know it looks meaner than the ACR, RT-10, and GTS. It just looks like it could bite your head off.
Cano
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I happen to agree with your thesis completely, and some of the exceptions listed here arent, really. for starters, everything BMW is doing now is INCREDIBLY, ASTOUNDINGLY UGLY. GM too. also ford. the new viper is ugly as hell compared to the first one. the list goes on and on. and I actually like better the new wrx than the older. oh, and the new civic sucks. stuff like that.
Cano
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OK. I don't really have time to go into deep detail, but here was my exception list of cars that look better now than their previous generation:
- Ford Mustang - way better than the SN95 version, and better than the venerable Fox even.
- Hyundai Tiburon - started out mediocre, got goofier; this one's a near-knockout.
- Dodge Ram - painted grille only. If it's chrome, I like the old one better.
- All Audis. They've got it going on. Too bad the upcoming stuff they've been previewing looks like crap.
- Viper RT-10 only. I like the new, real-ragtop version much better than the 1st gen pop-top. But I like the 1st gen GTS coupe much much better than the new GTS version.
- Nissan Altima. Better than the 2nd gen, but not as good as the 1st gen. When it gets the stupid Bugs Bunny grille it's going to be worse than the 2nd gen.
- Ford Thunderbird. Lazy-ass one-trick-pony retro styling - but it couldn't possibly be worse than the previous version. That doesn't mean I like it. It's a cheap shot.
- Chrylser Intrepid and 300M. I liked the old Intrepid, I love the new one. I hated the old LHS, but I like the 300M. Either way, it's better.
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The new V70 replaced the '98 V70, not S70. The S70 replaced the 850/S90.
That's
and
The new one is too damn ugly.
This one hardly counts, but the XC90 looks a lot better than the XC70.
Also, most new Porsche evolutions are better looking than the prior ones, except for the '89 911 Speedster, duh?
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Well, I cant really think of anything in the last three years. For me the Vipers Tie, I like the new look, but that's IMO. There are a few redesigns of other cars that arent as recent:
Corvette: The New version replaces that plain, no design "styling" of the late 80's early 90's models. You were paying for the name, the rest was pretty much junk.
Dodge Stratus: I like the new models rather than the ones from '00 and below. Im not saying that the other Gen was ugly, as I like them, Im just saying they look better.
There are a few backwards ones though.
Hummer H2: I like the H1 better, seemed more "Assult Vehicle", the new one looks more SUV-ish, though I like its design a little and it is just as tough, I like the H1 better. The design of the H1 looks more at home in the woods, desert, snow, what have you, than the H2 does...
Corvette: The New version replaces that plain, no design "styling" of the late 80's early 90's models. You were paying for the name, the rest was pretty much junk.
Dodge Stratus: I like the new models rather than the ones from '00 and below. Im not saying that the other Gen was ugly, as I like them, Im just saying they look better.
There are a few backwards ones though.
Hummer H2: I like the H1 better, seemed more "Assult Vehicle", the new one looks more SUV-ish, though I like its design a little and it is just as tough, I like the H1 better. The design of the H1 looks more at home in the woods, desert, snow, what have you, than the H2 does...
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Crap the pics didn't work, I will try it again later.
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Anywho I might as well make a point. Do you guys really expect a car manufacturer to stay with the same style of car forever, I know I wouldn't want to see the same Dodge, or Porsche cars for twenty years, or the same for Ford trucks, would you? Companies have to constantly change to find something that people like; once they find something the people like, for the next 5 or so years they will base that style of car into all of their cars, then change it again. So don't expect a company to stay with the same style for all of time, they are doing what's best for the company=Making Money!
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Doug and I have had several go-rounds on this subject. No, I don't expect the manufacturers' styling to stay the same forever. But I do think that this latest trend - wholesale backlash against the perceived anonymity of cars from the mid '90s - is doing much much more harm than good. Designers are doing anything they can to change for change's sake, with the most important criteria being "identifiability" rather than any actual consideration of what looks good.
A great example is the Civic, which went from fabulous (1993-6) to mediocre (1996-2000) to awful (current). The Accord did the same thing, at least in America. Nissan will do anything to make their cars look like Nissans, and they don't give a crap about the end product. Ditto Bangle's BMWs.
A great example is the Civic, which went from fabulous (1993-6) to mediocre (1996-2000) to awful (current). The Accord did the same thing, at least in America. Nissan will do anything to make their cars look like Nissans, and they don't give a crap about the end product. Ditto Bangle's BMWs.
My exception list is all correct (all of it!!!). There are some glaring omissions to yours which I just think you're overlooking - the new A4, the new Acura CL, all new Mercedes products (but you don't associate yourself with violent rapists - what?), the new Passat - it goes on and on. I went through the entire new car list for over forty minutes to compile that list - although most of it's opinion, some of it is very hard to refute. Your list doesn't even include the Mazda 6 - blasphemy.
If you really want to get technical (and be proven horribly wrong): the 850 sedan went from 1993 to 1998 before being replaced by the S70, which went from 1998 to 2000. Following this, the S60 debuted new for 2001 and still runs.
The 850 wagon went from 1994 to 1998 before being replaced by the V70 - I didn't mention it in my statement, but that would've complicated things more, which I didn't really effing need. In any event, the original V70 ended in 2000 and was replaced in 2001 by a newer V70.
The 9-series Volvos were six gazillion times more complicated: the 940 began in 1991, and was joined by, but not replaced by, the 960 in 1992. The 940 was cancelled in 1996, but the 960 went on to 1997 unchanged. In 1998, it returned, but renamed as the S90, and its wagon variant was named the V90. They never appeared in 1999, but the S80 did, and it still continues today, but without the wagon.
So the 850 and S90 are wholly seperate - duh?
Yeah - they do. For some reason, they're completely opposed to any kind of change - some people even see it as a major threat. It's why I didn't include the new BMWs in my list - I don't want to have another three-page argument with twelve people talking about how the line on the trunk of the new 7-series isn't how it should be. Almost always, but especially in the case of BMW, I wish they'd all quit parroting stupid criticisms and either shut up or get some new material. There's more complaining than about the old, boring models, and there's more sales. Maybe that means something.
EDIT: In general, you'd rather have boring:
Than different:
Just as generally, I prefer different - especially when the different car is, nine times of ten, the better equipped vehicle at a better value - and don't think I haven't checked that.
GilesGuthrie
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Doug, you're correct, but you misunderstood the philosophy.
850 was restyled at the time Volvo were thinking about reinventing their range. They wanted to have a small car (40), a medium car (70) and a big car (90). However, they'd already assessed that the 70 series was straddling two classes, and the 90 series wasn't selling, so they brought out the 80 and 60.
"S" denotes Sedan/Saloon, whatever. "V" denotes Versatile, i.e. "We don't just make cars that you can put chest freezers in, and we're refusing to admit that we make Estate cars". Therefore the 850 was replaced by BOTH the S70 (sedan) and V70 (wagon).
The S70, which - let's face it - was one of the ugliest cars ever made, was phased out and replaced with the S80 (even uglier) and the S60 (really quite pretty). The V70 continues, albeit not selling very well since it's now an old car and all of its rivals are better.
The 9-series is easy enough.
Originally, both sedans and wagons were available with a 940/960 designation. The 940 had a 2.2 litre 4 cyl 8v engine carried over from the 740, which had power, but was rough as a badger's arse, and drank fuel. They replaced this with a 16v 2 litre, 4 cyl engine, and was completely gutless. The 960 first came with a 2.5l 6 cyl engine, and then a 3.0 6cyl engine was available. Both as non-turbo petrols.
It got slightly more complicated insofar as a 940TD came out, which had a 2.5L 6 cyl Turbo-Diesel engine fitted (thus breaking the 940=4 cyl, 960=6 cyl hegemony). Immediately after this, a blown four came out which was designated 960 Turbo, apparently further muddying the waters. However, these two exceptions were fairly easy to work out.
Of course, when the S/V designations came out, the 9 series lost its saloon (already selling poorly, and the S80 was only 9 months away), and so only the wagon was carried over to become V90.
See? Easy!
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BMW M3 '02 > BMW M3 '94
Porsche 996 turbo > Porsche 993 turbo
Merc 500SL '02 > Merc 500SL '94
EDIT:
yip, i didnt read the title.......
Porsche 996 turbo > Porsche 993 turbo
Merc 500SL '02 > Merc 500SL '94
EDIT:
yip, i didnt read the title.......
I didn't lump them together, you did.
You said: "The S70 replaced the 850/S90."
I said: "Volvo S60/V70 (replaced the 850/S70..."
My original Volvo comment was facts only - I didn't pass any judgement about what replaced what, except the logical conclusions from the model years and numbers (ie 70 became 60; 90 became 80). If you want, though, I'm happy to go through it, as boring as it is.
Nah - in the US, at least, the 960 sedan and wagon didn't debut until 1992, whereas the 940 sedan and wagon debuted the previous year.
Not sure if this is a difference in trim leveling based on our respective countries, but the 1991 Volvo 940 debuted in the US with a 153-horsepower 2.3L (in GLE trim) from the 760 and a 162-horsepower 2.3L turbo (in SE and Turbo trim). It was replaced in 1992 with a terrible 114-horsepower 2.3L from the 240. When the car itself was cancelled in 1996, the engines went with it.
Throughout the 960 sedan, 960 wagon, S90, and V90's entire US life, it had a 2.9L inline-six, which originally had 201 horsepower, until 1995 when it was tuned for emissions to put out just 181. That never changed.
Ah - since I've been keeping track, the US has never received a diesel Volvo.
In the US, there was an S90, and I'm proud to say I've seen a few - they're really quite rare, as they were sold for just the one model year, and are identical in style to a 960, so even if you've signted one it's hard to be sure - a search on Google images turns up several, the best picture of which is far too large to post here.
...and that's certainly more than you ever wanted to know about that. 👍
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