North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[Keef]

Yeah nukes are bad, but it's not like one going off will destroy the Earth.

Arguable. The spread of many of today's most common diseases and causes of death are almost directly connected on some level to fallout from nuclear testing during the cold war, and there are stronger effects localized around blast sites - Hiroshima and Nagasaki might look fine but shortened life expectancies, especially of older generations, cancers, and infant birth defects and mortality rates are still higher in the local area than elsewhere. A nuclear explosion effectively condemns the local population to die prematurely of radiation-influenced disease. Even worse are the effects of any unmanaged nuclear waste products and who knows what NK is doing with those. There's an entire swath of northern St. Louis with outrageous disease and birth defect statistics as a result of unprotected nuclear waste at the international airport to the south. Now that the information has been made public I'd expect that area of 50,000 people to be effectively abandoned in the next couple decades.

Excuse me while I look up some statistics. I know the St. Louis story can be found on Daily Paul from a few weeks ago.

 

[Exorcet]

I won't argue with any of that. I was just saying that if the North nuked the South, they wouldn't necessarily be left with only a smoldering hole if they decided to invade after.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

North Korea informs foreign embassies that if they want to evacuate their people, now is the time to do it, as their safety cannot be guaranteed beyond April 10:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-06/north-korea-issues-foreign-embassy-warning/4613432

On the contrary, there is absolutely no way the US would not respond in kind if North Korea used nuclear weapons against them.

If they managed to land a direct hit, then I wouldn't disagree with you.

However, if the United States shot down a missile of bomber carrying a nuclear device, a nuclear exchange would not be guaranteed. If I were making the startegic decisions in that case, I'd probably look at using conventional warfare to overwhelm the North's artillery and missile positions and leave Pyongyang untouched to prove to Kim Jong-un that while he might have nuclear weapons, he's still nothing more than a bug.

 

[Dennisch]

The US is smart enough to not seek revenge with a nuke. Just a whole lot of conventional bombs start flying towards the Peninsula.

 

[Motorcycle54]

If it comes to a battle, and obviously it might, we'll not have the same vague feelings of what the point was, that Iraq and Afghanistan inspire. A conventional war against a conventional enemy, whoes leader has conventional delusions of persecution/grandeur.
The meter is running on Kim's 15 minutes.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Even Fidel Castro - one of Pyongyang's few (and oldest) - allies reckons the North has made their point, and now it's time to back down:

The United States has urged Pyongyang to stop with the provocations but says it "would not be surprised" if the North launched a missile.

"We've obviously seen the reports that North Korea may be making preparations to launch a missile, and we're monitoring this situation closely," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.

"We would not be surprised to see them take such an action. We have seen them launch missiles in the past ... and it would fit their current pattern of bellicose, unhelpful and unconstructive rhetoric and actions.

"We urge them to stop with the provocations and to focus instead on meeting their international obligations and feeding their own people.

"They are only making themselves more and more isolated from the rest of the world."

The Pentagon has said it will send missile-interceptor batteries to protect its bases on Guam, a US territory some 3,380 kilometres south-east of North Korea and home to 6,000 American military personnel.

Most experts think the North is not yet capable of mounting a nuclear device on a ballistic missile which could strike US bases or territory.

Tensions have soared on the Korean peninsula since December, when the North test-launched a long-range rocket.

In February, it conducted its third nuclear test and drew fresh United Nations sanctions.

One of North Korea's oldest allies, Fidel Castro, is urging Pyongyang to show restraint.

The former Cuban leader says the North Koreans had demonstrated their technical and scientific advances, and should now step back.

He says the current situation represents one of the greatest risks of nuclear war since the Cuban Missile Crisis five decades ago.

He warns that nuclear war would affect more than 70 per cent of the planet, and both North Korea and its opponents have a duty to avoid that.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-06/north-korea-issues-foreign-embassy-warning/4613432

 

[McLaren]

If you have a man like Fidel telling you, "Hey, that's a bad idea. Knock it off", then you should probably take heed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Meanwhile, we're not making the situation any better, by telling the Chinese to be aggressive:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-05/gillard-to-press-china-over-korea-tensions/4613052

Because apparently being outside the maximum range of the North's missiles means we somehow know how to handle the situation better than the one country that has been most successful in persuading the North not to blow everything up.

EDIT: This is slightly off-topic, but it appears that Bashar al-Assad does not to be out-done by Kim's craziness, and has announced that if his regime in Syria falls, then the entire Middle East will plunge into years of instability.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-06/assad-warns-of-regional-instability-if-regime-falls/4613568

 

[Barra333]

Meanwhile, we're not making the situation any better, by telling the Chinese to be aggressive:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-05/gillard-to-press-china-over-korea-tensions/4613052

Because apparently being outside the maximum range of the North's missiles means we somehow know how to handle the situation better than the one country that has been most successful in persuading the North not to blow everything up.

There is nothing in that article that says anything about Gillard being aggressive. The trip to China was planed ages ago, and the original point of the visit was nothing to do with NK, but obviously is on the agenda now.
The point I get from that story (and what I saw on the TV news last night) is that Gillard is telling China that we dont like what is happening, and making sure that China are in the same boat, then urging them to talk Kim Jong-un down. Assertive, maybe. Aggressive, no.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/politics/koreas-u-s-/index.html

The US is trying to ratchet tensions down after semi-acknowledging its own actions may have contributed to building them up, according to this updated CNN article.

There is no more mainstream organization than CNN, surely having best of relations with the administration and the Pentagon, thus assuring us this article is the best available truth - or the best available propaganda.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Mic_Col]

When I'm turning on the TV these days, I half expect that it's going to be some special news coverage of the unthinkable in the Korean peninsula.

 

[Peter.]

 

[Ardius]

^Let's hope Kim doesn't (or does?) have nut allergies

 

[Chris123]

This is why the human race will fail, maybe not now, maybe not in the next 50 years, but eventually we'll become our own worst enemy and enemy of every living thing on this planet

 

[terminator363]

I almost fell out of my chair!

 

[Tired Tyres]

This is why the human race will fail, maybe not now, maybe not in the next 50 years, but eventually we'll become our own worst enemy and enemy of every living thing on this planet

We are our own worst enemy and always have been. Nothing hurts us as much as we hurt ourselves.

 

[Slash]

We are our own worst enemy and always have been. Nothing hurts us as much as we hurt ourselves.

It kills me to think that some people still don't realize this.

 

[Lizard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22056387

 

[gtone339]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533778_357872514318304_1857032006_n.jpg

Never knew he was the Korean rapper, PSY!!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22056387

On the one hand, it's a smart move, because it won't be misinterpreted.

On the other, it might embolden the North, making them think they can make demands and America will comply with them.

 

[Ranman20]

We are going to exterminate humanity before any natural disaster does.

 

[Peter.]

We are going to exterminate humanity before any natural disaster does.

We're not that stupid. We're smart enough to not do anything that will threaten our existence, which is why there will never really be a nuclear war.

 

[Ranman20]

We're not that stupid. We're smart enough to not do anything that will threaten our existence, which is why there will never really be a nuclear war.

I really hope so.

 

[Matty]

What annoys me with most of the news agencies is that they forgot to mention or mis-inform people of the fact the North and South are STILL in a state of war.

I read yesterday in a newspaper that the North and South fought against each other briefly between 1950-53 and it annoyed me since the war still goes on.

North Korea has issued a series of unusually strong threats since it was sanctioned by the UN in March for carrying out a third nuclear test.

It has threatened nuclear strikes on the US, formally declared war on the South, and pledged to reopen a nuclear reactor in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22056387

That also annoyed me as it will mis-inform many into thinking war was declared between the two states since March. I just wish news agencies put things as they are rather then putting their own take on things.

 

[Famine]

What annoys me with most of the news agencies is that they forgot to mention or mis-inform people of the fact the North and South are STILL in a state of war.

I read yesterday in a newspaper that the North and South fought against each other briefly between 1950-53 and it annoyed me since the war still goes on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22056387

That also annoyed me as it will mis-inform many into thinking war was declared between the two states since March. I just wish news agencies put things as they are rather then putting their own take on things.

It depends on what technicality you prefer.

No peace treaty was ever signed to conclude the Korean War, but the two sides did sign an armistice - similar to the one we remember every November 11th regarding the First World War armistice on the Western Front. The relevant peace agreement of the Treaty of Versailles wasn't signed until the following June - yet everyone remembers 11.11 11/11/1918 as the end of the war itself.


So technically the Korean War in 1953 ended (and Naughty Korea claimed to have won it...) but technically no peace treaty was ever signed - meaning that technically Naughty Korea's declaration of war is both a resumption of the war and a new bout of hostilities.

And actually is meaningless, given the total lack of military action and inevitable result of it should it occur

 

[Ryanswannell]

Am I woorying too much? I live in the Uk and I find myself thinking about this situation for the majority of my day.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Am I woorying too much? I live in the Uk and I find myself thinking about this situation for the majority of my day.

Probably. The more I think about it, the less of a threat we're at - probably because there's a load of countries between us and them who could shoot down any missile they fire at us.

 

[Ryanswannell]

This whole situation is ruining my half term holiday. I want to enjoy myself but I just keep thinking of the worst case scenario and its getting me down.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

This whole situation is ruining my half term holiday. I want to enjoy myself but I just keep thinking of the worst case scenario and its getting me down.

Why are you worrying? Worry about it if it actually happens.

 

[Alex.]

We're not in range for their missiles anyway, and William Hague has said our intelligence has found no signs of them actually setting up for an attack.