Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[YSSMAN]

So then why basically condemn McCain for it, and not Obama? Obama stands for both sides according to his reports, FAR, FAR more than McCain has even been on record of, and that's a fact. Like I said, Obama has been called worse than a flip-flopper, so he must really have no idea on what he stands for.

From what I've been reading and watching, Obama has done a good job of staying on-track with his recent politics. When McCain is changing his mind weekly, that is a serious problem. I've expressed my concerns over Obama's change in direction on FISA and his rhetoric with Iran, however, that has been mostly with friends and family. Simply put, its a bit of a disappointment that he felt the need to mediate, and I'd like to see his current positions on the issues explained in greater detail, but I am under the impression that it is something that every candidate has to do after the primaries are won; race to the centrist political position.

The difference here, I belive, is that I trust Obama to make a good decision. I really don't with McCain. Remember, I've seen him in person, I shook McCain's hand. I don't like the guy, its really as easy as that.

RE: Resources for political coverage

You're not going to find much out there that isn't slanted one way or another. The differences usually are in what they choose to cover, and how they present it. I've been watching a lot of CNN and MSNBC, all while reading the news from the BBC, Huffington Post and Politico. I wouldn't say that MSNBC or Huff Post is anywhere close to "fair," but they cover issues in a greater depth than others do. As of now, I wouldn't touch Fox News or The Wall Street Journal with a 10 foot pole.

===

@Toronado

RE: Don't trust McCain or Obama economicly

Here is the problem, I don't trust McCain's economic advisers as far as I could throw them. The fact that he is relying on them so heavily is, at the very least, concerning. On the other hand, while I may not agree with all of Obama's economic plans (and I do not recall hearing him say that he has all the answers), he has done a good job of finding balance on the issue with bi-partisan panels and facing criticisms of his plan head-on. I find that admirable, particularly in these intense political times.

RE: Talking about regulation...

Just to make a point, it has been a lack of regulation that has gotten us in a fair bit of trouble as of late. I think most Republicans with a level head on their shoulders would agree to it. The oil issue is the one that is going to split hairs, and while I do not agree with the way in which Pelosi and Obama want to go after industry, I certainly do not agree with McCain's "its supply!!!" tactics either. He knows damn-well it won't make a lick of difference and I hate the fact that people are stupid enough to believe than ANWR will make a damn difference with its three-month oil supply, or for that matter, that we'd even have the capacity to refine it whatsoever. But, that's getting off topic...

You take what you can get, and in the end, Obama has the upper-hand in economics by listening to other ideas. But, that's my opinion, if other people are buying into McCain's ideas, that is their choice, and I'm happy to discuss it with them.

===

@Joey

RE: Third parties

The problem with the third party issue is that we are still at a point in which it is unrealistic to think that either the Independents or the Libertarians stand a chance at getting the White House. For that matter, that they truly represent a sizable portion of the American population and their political beliefs. The nature of the system (generally) is that while third parties may in fact pop-up and become fairly strong (points to populists of the early 20th century), they are often absorbed into the major parties by "stealing" their talking points.

Without a doubt, Bob Barr stands a damn good chance of taking at least 10% of the popular vote. That certainly signifies that there is a change being called for by the people, so in the end, it will be interesting to see how the Democrats and Republicans react to his presumed success. However, the wild card of this issue is going to be the disenfranchised Democrats (Hillary die-hards) and Republicans (people like me) who are jumping ship to the other side. Obviously there are the Independents too...

When people tell me that don't like Obama or McCain, I tell them to vote for Bob Barr. Some people take to heart, others do not. But, its their democratic right to make whatever decision they like, or to not vote at all. What it comes down to, at least for me, is that the political risks are too high to dance through third-party land or to not vote at all. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[McLaren]

The difference here, I belive, is that I trust Obama to make a good decision. I really don't with McCain. Remember, I've seen him in person, I shook McCain's hand. I don't like the guy, its really as easy as that.

No, you trust him to make a good decision because he claims he will. Everyone only likes him because he says he will support their side. The problem is that he's saying this for both sides, so naturally everyone will trust him, just as long as they don't hear about him telling their opponents that. Which, isn't hard since most Obama fans seem to be uninformed on everything their candidate does.

McCain won't get that because McCain sticks to 1 side way, way more than Obama. He won't tell you what you want to hear just because you're not one of his supporters.
However, I now have to ask do you not like him because of what he's saying what he'll do for the country, or do you not like him just because he's not Obama?

Either way, you'll find the truth down the road Brad. This man is screwed if he gets elected because then the time will come when everyone will ask, "Obama, which side did you really support?" And no matter the answer, he's going to be hated by a lot of his supporters. His constant flip-flopping and choosing both sides every other week will be his down-fall.

 

[OZZYGT]

Talk about Flip-Flopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

 

[McLaren]

Talk about Flip-Flopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

YouTube videos are the worst source of information unless the video is giving off a complete video, not a chopped-up, 1 sided vid.

I honestly, ignore any YouTube videos whether they're against/for McCain or Obama. Both of these guys have so many anti/pro videos that are nothing more than videos of cropped speeches & interviews, that you'll rarely ever get the full story.

 

[YSSMAN]

No, you trust him to make a good decision because he claims he will.

I'm trusting Obama because he hasn't given me a reason to do otherwise. When Republicans go about touting their "fiscal responsibility" and end up blowing $1 Trillion in Iraq without thinking twice about it, can you really believe them? What about when they're "against socialized medicine" and yet support McCain's plan that accomplishes the same thing as Obama's plan, can you believe them then? What about energy? Taxes? State's rights?

Being in politics, I know enough to never completely trust anyone. But when we have McCain getting up there on stage lying through his teeth on issues, of course I'm going to look towards Obama who may very well over-promise and under-deliver (that will depend on congress come 2009). That is the nature of the game, its as easy as that. Our current President promised a lot of good things eight years ago, few of which were ever completely accomplished. You roll the dice on anyone, and in this instance, I'm more willing to do so with Obama. The Republicans do not deserve anything at this point.

Which, isn't hard since most Obama fans seem to be uninformed on everything their candidate does.

THAT I whole-heartedly disagree with. There are just as many political zombies in the McCain camp as there are in the Obama camp, and while a bit of sensationalism may have captured the eye of some people on Obama's side, I'd prefer that to those who haven't taken the time to look at the issues, the facts, and make a decision that is their own. I'm not here to condemn them, however, but to say that its a case of pot/kettle/black here.

McCain won't get that because McCain sticks to 1 side way, way more than Obama. He won't tell you what you want to hear just because you're not one of his supporters.

Now, just to ask, is that what the media is telling you or is that what the record shows? Both of them have changed positions a lot, its as simple as that. At the very least Obama will explain his change in tone, McCain tends to freeze in the headlights or deny it altogether. This is what politics is defined by, you live with it.

However, I now have to ask do you not like him because of what he's saying what he'll do for the country, or do you not like him just because he's not Obama?

A good question, but I suspect that you aren't going to get the answer that you wanted. I don't like McCain not only because of his policies that he has laid out (most of which I completely disagree with), but also that he has a level of character that I find completely unappealing. He has sold himself out, changes his political opinion far too often, and in the end offers up nothing new to the political spectrum other than a continuation of Bush's administration four years into the future. Certainly, I respect him and his military service, but when he has the guts to call out people for not "supporting the troops" despite the fact that he wouldn't support a GI Bill, continues to support torture despite being a recipient of some of the worst kind, and makes god-awful gaffes at every opportunity... No mas, no mas.

When he came to Grand Rapids and spoke, I was impressed by his "honesty" when he said flat out "Jobs aren't coming back." In my heart, I know that's absolutely true. But despite his strong record beforehand of doing what he believed to be right and shooting it to us straight, he has lost all of it within just a few months. I cannot trust someone like that, no matter what rhetoric he may take. McCain was a good Senator, and he would have been a good President in the past, but now is not the time.

His constant flip-flopping and choosing both sides every other week will be his down-fall.

You do realize that you can say the same about McCain, right?

Come convention time I suspect we'll see both sides tighten their political stances evenly, as it stands right now, we're still dealing with them through the lens as a Senator, not as a Presidential candidate with the party behind them.

What it comes down to in the future is this; We either try a new path with Obama which may not work, or we continue down the same path we're already on. We must also recognize that this has more to do with Congress than just the President as well, because as most are anticipating a further decline in GOP power in both the Senate and House, even if McCain is elected I highly doubt much of his conservative agenda would be accomplished.

 

[Omnis]

As much as I dislike Obama, he has wonderful graphic designers and typographers on his team.

Yeah, Obama has the best of the best when it comes to PR and design.

 

[McLaren]

I'm trusting Obama because he hasn't given me a reason to do otherwise.

I guess you like people who only tell you what you want to hear then....Shame.

When Republicans go about touting their "fiscal responsibility" and end up blowing $1 Trillion in Iraq without thinking twice about it, can you really believe them? What about when they're "against socialized medicine" and yet support McCain's plan that accomplishes the same thing as Obama's plan, can you believe them then? What about energy? Taxes? State's rights?

Oh, the Republicans are so bad. You realize that since Congress is mainly made of Democrats, they could do something to reduce that. But they don't....

Being in politics, I know enough to never completely trust anyone. But when we have McCain getting up there on stage lying through his teeth on issues, of course I'm going to look towards Obama who may very well over-promise and under-deliver (that will depend on congress come 2009).

How hypocritical. Obama is sitting there lying through his teeth just as much.

That is the nature of the game, its as easy as that. Our current President promised a lot of good things eight years ago, few of which were ever completely accomplished. You roll the dice on anyone, and in this instance, I'm more willing to do so with Obama. The Republicans do not deserve anything at this point.

And why does Obama deserve anything? What says he's going to do anything better? As far as I've seen, Obama is just the next Carter, and even if Bush hasn't been the best President, he's still better than Carter.

THAT I whole-heartedly disagree with. There are just as many political zombies in the McCain camp as there are in the Obama camp, and while a bit of sensationalism may have captured the eye of some people on Obama's side, I'd prefer that to those who haven't taken the time to look at the issues, the facts, and make a decision that is their own. I'm not here to condemn them, however, but to say that its a case of pot/kettle/black here.

Well, you got your wish because that's exactly what seems to happen to Obama supporters. They somehow like him when he speaks, and they don't look at any issues or facts to decide if they really should supporting him.

Now, just to ask, is that what the media is telling you or is that what the record shows? Both of them have changed positions a lot, its as simple as that. At the very least Obama will explain his change in tone, McCain tends to freeze in the headlights or deny it altogether. This is what politics is defined by, you live with it.

So that makes Obama's constantly changing view fine? When has Obama ever explained why he changes his stance, anyways? I sure as hell have never seen him do it.

A good question, but I suspect that you aren't going to get the answer that you wanted. I don't like McCain not only because of his policies that he has laid out (most of which I completely disagree with), but also that he has a level of character that I find completely unappealing. He has sold himself out, changes his political opinion far too often, and in the end offers up nothing new to the political spectrum other than a continuation of Bush's administration four years into the future.

That's got to be the funniest thing I have ever read.
Brad, do you freakin' realize Obama does this even MORE than McCain? Why believe in Obama for doing the samething, yet dislike McCain for it?

Certainly, I respect him and his military service, but when he has the guts to call out people for not "supporting the troops" despite the fact that he wouldn't support a GI Bill, continues to support torture despite being a recipient of some of the worst kind, and makes god-awful gaffes at every opportunity... No mas, no mas.

And yet you're fine with Obama switching on his stance of the troops? Ok....

When he came to Grand Rapids and spoke, I was impressed by his "honesty" when he said flat out "Jobs aren't coming back." In my heart, I know that's absolutely true. But despite his strong record beforehand of doing what he believed to be right and shooting it to us straight, he has lost all of it within just a few months. I cannot trust someone like that, no matter what rhetoric he may take. McCain was a good Senator, and he would have been a good President in the past, but now is not the time.

So, you believe he can't be a good President now, yet you support a Carter?
Again, ok....

You do realize that you can say the same about McCain, right?

Nowhere like Obama. Again, McCain doesn't flip flop anywhere near the amount of Obama, nor does McCain change his stance on everything he speaks on. Obama, pretty much has.

What it comes down to in the future is this; We either try a new path with Obama which may not work, or we continue down the same path we're already on.

Except Obama isn't a new path.

We must also recognize that this has more to do with Congress than just the President as well, because as most are anticipating a further decline in GOP power in both the Senate and House, even if McCain is elected I highly doubt much of his conservative agenda would be accomplished.

So what? At least McCain can try. If Obama is elected, the Democrats are just going to pass everything, good or bad.

 

[YSSMAN]

That's the political cycle then. The Republicans had their turn, they drove it into the ground. Game-over, hand the controller to the Democrats. Certainly I do hope that we see the strong, good-natured Republicans stay in Congress and the Senate (someone, after all, has to bitch about spending and the size of government), but by every measure of the mile we need some kind of change in Washington.

I'm not here to change anyone's mind about McCain, it is their right (and your right) to believe that he is the best choice. The only difference here is that I don't agree with that position, and certainly, I am willing to discuss it.

===

Just to sum up on Flip Flops...

The FlipFlopTracker (anti-Obama) lists seventeen major changes to Obama's positions so far.

Alter-Net (progressive news organization) has a page for McCain, 61 changes in position listed so far.

 

[Danoff]

As for being rational at the moment, I believe Obama has the upper hand. That of course depends on your politics and what you see fit at the moment.

Who is rational does not depend on my politics. It doesn't depend on me at all.

Why don't we just all find third party candidates if we dislike the Democrat and Republican ones? We have other options then the two main idiots running.

Good idea.

The difference here, I belive, is that I trust Obama to make a good decision. I really don't with McCain. Remember, I've seen him in person, I shook McCain's hand. I don't like the guy, its really as easy as that.

You don't have to like him to think he'd be a good leader.... don't get me wrong, he wouldn't, but whether you like him is totally immaterial. How can you "trust" Obama to make a good decision when his advocated solutions are so awful?

Just to make a point, it has been a lack of regulation that has gotten us in a fair bit of trouble as of late.

How's YOUR economic background? Because the above statement suggests that you lack some of the same education that Obama lacks.

You take what you can get, and in the end, Obama has the upper-hand in economics by listening to other ideas.

I don't want a president who will keep an open mind on economics. I want a president who understands economic theory and can apply it.

I'm trusting Obama because he hasn't given me a reason to do otherwise.

Trust should be earned.

There are just as many political zombies in the McCain camp as there are in the Obama camp

Don't you ever get tired of building your guy up by tearing the other one down? They both suck. Your inability to tout Obama's policies, ideals, or plans really speaks to that.

That's the political cycle then. The Republicans had their turn, they drove it into the ground. Game-over, hand the controller to the Democrats.

Drove what into the ground and how? And you should have a reason to think the democrats will do better. I really hate the "well that sucked, let's give the other guys shot" mentality. LISTEN to what they're saying, and use your head to try to figure out whether it's any better. I prefer to vote for someone who I'd actually like to see in office.

 

[Tornado]

What about when they're "against socialized medicine" and yet support McCain's plan that accomplishes the same thing as Obama's plan, can you believe them then?

I still don't understand this mentality (note, I'm commenting on your attitude and the attitude of many Obama supporters I've heard rather than the issue itself, as I've decided to ignore any socialized medicine talks from either side because they aren't going to happen regardless). By your own apparent tone what Obama is doing is apparently just as bad as what McCain is doing, yet somehow the way they present themselves in their essentially identical terrible idea makes McCain somehow worse than Obama on that individual issue. I'm not saying McCain is any better, but the fact that the two candidates are equally wrong on an issue does not make the one who presents his solution in a more agreeable way any more right. Everytime the discussion turns to Obama's economic policies or healthcare ideas you take this stance, and it is puzzling.

even if McCain is elected I highly doubt much of his conservative agenda would be accomplished.

Even if the Democrats sweep both pieces of Congress, very little of Obama's ideas will pass either.

 

[McLaren]

Just to sum up on Flip Flops...

The FlipFlopTracker (anti-Obama) lists seventeen major changes to Obama's positions so far.

Alter-Net (progressive news organization) has a page for McCain, 61 changes in position listed so far.

You don't check your links, do you?
The link you posted for McCain is obviously anti-McCain, and a sad one at that.

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn't.

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn't.

These are hardly worth noting as flip-flop issues. What's worse yet is the link for both these sources are same page. How incredibly low.

What's even worse is that McCain is being called out on that issue, but when Obama was in the same situation with Wright, all the Obama supporters were fine with it as long as Obama said he no longer wanted anything to do with it.

I'm not going to bother taking your McCain link seriously Brad, if it's just going to take 1 source, and try and turn it into multiple reasons when it really isn't.
BTW, why is it that the FlipFlopTracker can link multiple sources, but every source on the Alternet website goes back to 1 website?

 

[High-Test]

My .02: I think we're going to get violated again with farming equipment when the Jesus voters go to the polls. They're as bad as any partisan, if not worse.

Rick, did you miss the fact that one site is Anti-Obama and the other is Anti-McCain? Yes, Mr. Hannity, you don't have to take anything seriously.

 

[McLaren]

Rick, did you miss the fact that one site is Anti-Obama and the other is Anti-McCain? Yes, Mr. Hannity, you don't have to take anything seriously.

Yes, I obviously did miss that fact. That's why I said Alternet was Anti-McCain.

I know the FlipFlopTracker is Anti-Obama. It's aimed at him pretty much. I didn't know Alternet was anti-McCain though because I had never heard of it, and not all political sites are 1-sided.

 

[YSSMAN]

Almost all political websites have some kind of lean, same goes with most of the news organizations. I think the only "moderate" political website out there is Politico, but that really depends. As far as news organizations are concerned, the only one who seems to report the facts is the BBC. Odd...

I purposely chose one anti-Obama and one anti-McCain website (I figured the "progressive news source" would give that away) just to show whats going on. One of the news organizations (it was CNN or MSNBC) had a flip-flop tracker as well, but I'm having a hard time finding it.

===

While we're thinking about economics:

I was listening to one of Obama's speeches today, it was recorded I believe, and he was pushing the windfall profits tax again. This time he put a spin on it in which we'd all get $1000 checks to offset energy costs.

...Bad move...

I can understand his notion to cut taxes for 95% of Americans (those who make less than $150K per year), but that doesn't sit well with me, not even remotely close. Am I going to change my vote because of it, no, not hardly... But I will certainly make an issue of it with my friends who are working in the campaign.

 

[Danoff]

While we're thinking about economics:

I was listening to one of Obama's speeches today, it was recorded I believe, and he was pushing the windfall profits tax again. This time he put a spin on it in which we'd all get $1000 checks to offset energy costs.

...Bad move...

I can understand his notion to cut taxes for 95% of Americans (those who make less than $150K per year), but that doesn't sit well with me, not even remotely close. Am I going to change my vote because of it, no, not hardly... But I will certainly make an issue of it with my friends who are working in the campaign.

I don't see how you can support someone who advocates such a piss poor (and fundamentally immoral) economic policy. This is exactly the sort of thing that demonstrates that he doesn't have the credentials for the job. Not that McCain does either, mind you.

 

[FoolKiller]

I can understand his notion to cut taxes for 95% of Americans (those who make less than $150K per year),

I can't, but then I have a crazy notion of following the Constitution:

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Of course, expecting the Constitution to be followed would also mean that I expect any taxes not contributing purely to the debts, common defense, and general welfare of the US to be revoked. Silly me.

 

[Danoff]

Of course, expecting the Constitution to be followed would also mean that I expect any taxes not contributing purely to the debts, common defense, and general welfare of the US to be revoked. Silly me.

Heh... expecting the constitution would mean that lawmakers (see regulatory agencies like FDA, EPA, OSAH) have to actually be VOTED for. Silly you.

 

[FoolKiller]

Heh... expecting the constitution would mean that lawmakers (see regulatory agencies like FDA, EPA, OSAH) have to actually be VOTED for. Silly you.

Honestly, I am tempted to go back to the National Archives building (went in sixth grade) to make sure that Article 1, Section 8 is still there. I might want to check on that first page of amendments while I am at it.

They both seem to be overlooked quite often.

 

[Omnis]

My .02: I think we're going to get violated again with farming equipment when the Jesus voters go to the polls. They're as bad as any partisan, if not worse.

Rick, did you miss the fact that one site is Anti-Obama and the other is Anti-McCain? Yes, Mr. Hannity, you don't have to take anything seriously.

"Jesus Voters" hate McCain. They'll probably vote for Chuck Baldwin if they're seriously going to vote "Christian".

Mike Huckabee won the Values Voters debate, with Ron Paul coming in second. McCain didn't show up and, needless to say, was near last in the delegation's post-debate poll.

Honestly, I am tempted to go back to the National Archives building (went in sixth grade) to make sure that Article 1, Section 8 is still there. I might want to check on that first page of amendments while I am at it.

They both seem to be overlooked quite often.

Have you read Tom Woods's new book, Who Killed The Constitution? ? Basically, one of the points he writes about is that the biggest mistake we've ever made is letting government have control over the document that controls government.

 

[Keef]

Have you read Tom Woods's new book, Who Killed The Constitution? ? Basically, one of the points he writes about is that the biggest mistake we've ever made is letting government have control over the document that controls government.

I wonder how the government would act differently if the physical Constitution were actually kept and cared for by a private company or group of companies. Assuming they didn't simply declare that a monopoly and take the document back.

 

[Omnis]

I wonder how the government would act differently if the physical Constitution were actually kept and cared for by a private company or group of companies. Assuming they didn't simply declare that a monopoly and take the document back.

Well, as far as I know, it was actually cared for by the states at one point. Half seceded, lost against the subsequent invasion, and thus began the road we're on today. I haven't read the book yet (but will after I finish school), but Tom Woods is the historian, not me.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't see how you can support someone who advocates such a piss poor (and fundamentally immoral) economic policy. This is exactly the sort of thing that demonstrates that he doesn't have the credentials for the job. Not that McCain does either, mind you.

Like I've said before, its a sad state that our political system is in. Everyone runs around screaming "I have the answer!" while the others do the same, arguing over who is right and wrong, and nothing gets done. That very well could explain the 8% approval rating of Congress...

Their respective economic positions that they give on their websites, at least in my opinion, are both a bit vague. I do prefer having Obama target the middle-class folks, but I'm noticing that not everything is there. McCain's stuff is just as bad, clearly catering to the upper-class folks. But, that's party differences there.

 

[McLaren]

Looky, looky! Obama flips again!

Brad, what were you saying about McCain and off-shore drilling again?
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign5-2008aug05,0,4069072.story

 

[YSSMAN]

Obama's plan to sell off the 70 Billion oil barrels is a new one, and at least in my opinion, not a good idea. I do recall it being something Pelosi had been pushing a while, so I'm sure it came down the chain to Obama.

As for the extra oil drilling, I'm severely disappointed. I've noted the rising favor for it in the polls recently, and I'm very surprised that the campaign caved to those figures. Anyone with a modest understanding of the oil industry knows it wont effect a god damned thing, particularly when we can't even refine what we're already getting from outside (Canada, BTW, is our biggest oil supplier).

*sigh*

Chalk this one up to populist politics, plain and simple. Either way, I'm not happy that he'd consider it (doesn't sound like the LA Times are either), but I understand that the polls are going to dictate things on occasion. I suppose that I can at least take some level of comfort that the attention has been off ANWR.

EDIT: This paragraph is key, however...

Republicans, too, have responded to such pressures. McCain only recently endorsed expanding offshore oil drilling, embracing a pro-production GOP principle that he had previously opposed. And in Florida, where offshore drilling has been anathema, Republican Gov. Charlie Crist has dropped his stalwart opposition to such exploration.

No one is immune from the oil issue, I think. Its effecting too many voters to not do stupid stuff like this. I'm in the camp that wants to see idiots suffer so they make better choices, not have the government (under the direction of any party) extend the "fun" for people who bought SUVs and can't afford them, commute too far, or hadn't taken action previously against the rising cost of fuel. With the oil pricing leveling off and both parties cooling their rhetoric towards oil traders, it seems like the debate over supply/demand and how to quickly "solve" the situation will come first. Hooray for short-sighted Americans everywhere!

 

[Joey D]

I don't really support offshore drilling, it's costly and by the time the geological surveys are complete and the platforms built the "oil crisis" might be a bit weaker. It really would just be better for both candidates to figure out the best way to lower I need for oil by committing to try and get better energy in the US, mainly nuclear, wind and solar. They won't but I just say what I would like to see.

As Brad pointed out, "hooray for short sighted Americans"....hooray indeed .

 

[TheCracker]

It really would just be better for both candidates to figure out the best way to lower I need for oil by committing to try and get better energy in the US, mainly nuclear, wind and solar. They won't but I just say what I would like to see.

Nuclear, wind and solar powered vehicles?

 

[Joey D]

Nuclear, wind and solar powered vehicles?

Unlike the rest of the world we still burn oil to produce electricity.

 

[TheCracker]

Unlike the rest of the world we still burn oil to produce electricity.

Hardly at all from i can see. From what i can see, you have 11 oil burning power stations in the whole country. Compare that to the 104 Nuclear and 1493 coal-powered power plants you have. Unless you were referring to domestic heating?

 

[livemusic]

Use water then.

 

[Joey D]

Hardly at all from i can see. From what i can see, you have 11 oil burning power stations in the whole country. Compare that to the 104 Nuclear and 1493 coal-powered power plants you have. Unless you were referring to domestic heating?

Hmmm maybe I confused the numbers between coal and oil, or they were just combined. With that said then I retract my statement. However, I did forget about domestic heating, which easily could be solved with another form of energy or better yet, better built homes that are more energy efficient.