Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%
  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%
  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%
  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
I can understand what she means by it, but if you're offended, by all means it is your right to be. There are a lot of people who have been dissatisfied by government, what it does (or has done), and how politics have been practiced in recent time. But, you are welcome to take your own interpretation out of the quotes as well, I just don't find her offensive in any way, shape or form.
You've got to be joking. She's worse than Barack when it comes to people complaining that Barack isn't patriotic enough.

I detest the woman with all my strength. She's an absolute b**** who carries the idea that now that her husband is a Presidential Candidate, she now has hope in America. She gives out this attitude that she didn't care about America at all before 2008.
 
I think you guys are reading into it a bit further than what it was meant for, but, that's my opinion. Questioning his and her patriotism over the issue just seems illogical to me. Of course, this brings up the question of how much patriotism is a good thing and how much is not...

EDIT:

I found the video of the whole quote in context. The explanation afterward is good for laying it out a bit better.
 
Last edited:
I think you guys are reading into it a bit further than what it was meant for, but, that's my opinion.
Her problem is that she said, "for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback."

Her adult life began in 1981/1982. So, she hasn't been proud of her country for 26 or so years? So, does that mean she doesn't believe all that stuff about how great things were in the Clinton years?

Questioning his and her patriotism over the issue just seems illogical to me. Of course, this brings up the question of how much patriotism is a good thing and how much is not...
I don't think it is so much about patriotism as it is an insult to the people who have believed in what this country stood for, even in the last 26 or so years. While accusations are made about her patriotism it is more about the patriotism of others that she is insulting that is the problem.

I mean, this woman is not old enough to remember segregation in schools. In her adult life huge strides have been made to break down not just racial boundaries but lifestyle boundaries. And she wasn't proud of her country? When you are making a nationwide speech every word you will be saying has been gone over by dozens of eyes for countless hours. We are not looking into it too much when people who do this professionally had looked into it much, much more. The way it is worded tells me that it even went through changes to make it sound less negative, but the meaning was intended to be kept.

I found the video of the whole quote in context. The explanation afterward is good for laying it out a bit better.
You mean the part where she explains that she now understands that we all have the same problems across the country and we all deal with that and we are all in the same boat together and are willing to stand up together to overcome? Because that shows that she was completely out of touch. Of course, it is hard to understand the plight of an Iowa farmer from within the walls of Harvard.

Or maybe you mean the part where she says that she is proud of her husband?

Or maybe it is the hungry for change comment? The problem is that outside of the war the only change Obama really has in mind is more, more, more. More welfare, more spending, more handouts, and more programs that shouldn't be done at the federal level according to the Constitution (there's that word again).

I don't know, maybe you can give us a quote of her explanation. I didn't see anything that made me say, "Oh, I get it. She loves her country 4evr and wants to be BFFs with it." No, all I see is, "You like my husband. I am so proud of you."


Honestly, just admit it. She, and her speech writers screwed up. What she was wanting to get across was that Obama is the first president she can vote for that she feels she can be behind 100%. But saying that insults Clinton, and they need Clinton supporters. So, they tried to make it sound like an insult to Republicans, but since at the time they couldn't 100% exclude Clinton (I mean, they were running against his wife) they just pulled the country as a whole into their back-handed compliment.

^^^That is the honest explanation, and does not make her statement excusable. Her best bet would have been to avoid the phrase and focus on the huge step forward this represents. But they can't do that, because Obama is trying incredibly hard to avoid race.
 
Last edited:
Her adult life begin in 1981/1982.

Things the US has done since then that I have been proud of:
- Fall of Berlin Wall
- Fall of Russia
- Display of military capability in Gulf War I
- Every single presidential election since then (I love that we can transfer power peacefully)
- DC vs. Heller
- The surge of national pride immediately following September 11 2001
- The Kyoto Treaty
- Star Wars Episode V (1980)
- Clarance Thomas
- Michael Phelps
- Ronald Reagan
- etc.

Times in my adult life when I have been proud of America in General:
- When I began to properly understand the constitution and the concept of limited government
- When reading Ayn Rand
- When reading Milton Friedman
- When properly understanding the importance of separation of church and state
- Every time I go to the grocery store
- etc.
 
Last edited:
I would agree that it was a poor way in which to get her point across, but I'm not about to get in a tussle over it. I think her point that for the first time in a long time that what would otherwise be considered the "little people" feel as though they can make a difference in this country is a good one, regardless of what your political beliefs are. There isn't any crime in believing in what you're promoting, whether it is Obama or McCain, as I know there are friends of mine on both sides who are committed to their cause, and really feel like they're going to make a change by getting either elected to office. I'm very excited by the fact that this election has so many people eager to vote, to voice their opinions, and maybe take a while to consider how or why they think the way that they do.

Whether or not Obama or McCain wins, I'm under the impression that we will be able to look back 10 or 20 years from now and say, "that was the point where people started caring again," and as someone who loves politics, it would make me very, very happy.

===

Obama does his acceptance speech tonight, and we're supposed to know who McCain's running mate is tomorrow (I'm hearing now that it won't be Romney?), which will be an interesting segway to the weekend...
 
Obama does his acceptance speech tonight, and we're supposed to know who McCain's running mate is tomorrow (I'm hearing now that it won't be Romney?), which will be an interesting segway to the weekend...
Take notes everybody:
images
≠ segue

Anyway, although the race is a big farce to me now, I secretly hope that McCain chooses a woman VP just to throw another wrench into things. I think that would be fun.
 
[semi-satire mode]
I think her point that for the first time in a long time that what would otherwise be considered the "little people" feel as though they can make a difference in this country is a good one, regardless of what your political beliefs are.
While her husband runs on a campaign of increased regulation which does the exact opposite. Nice.

There isn't any crime in believing in what you're promoting, whether it is Obama or McCain, as I know there are friends of mine on both sides who are committed to their cause, and really feel like they're going to make a change by getting either elected to office.
Which just goes to prove that they both have a bunch of clueless supporters.

I'm very excited by the fact that this election has so many people eager to vote, to voice their opinions, and maybe take a while to consider how or why they think the way that they do.
"Change" is not exactly explaining why. I think it is just a motto.

Honestly, outside of your political science courses, how many people can truly explain their reasons without uttering phrases like, "better than Bush," or "Muslim conspiracy," or "baby killer," or any other rhetoric? I try hard to even avoid people that agree with me because they talk utter rubbish and can't actually defend their position.

Whether or not Obama or McCain wins, I'm under the impression that we will be able to look back 10 or 20 years from now and say, "that was the point where people started caring again," and as someone who loves politics, it would make me very, very happy.
This is a joke right? I have been hearing about how each election since 2000 would be this. At first it was about disenfranchised voters, then it was about the war, then oil, then the war, then Sean P Puff Diddy Daddy Super Awesome Mamma Jamma Combs. The fact is that we still have one of the lowest voter turnouts out there. Of course the Vote or Die campaign probably didn't have the intended effect as it seems to be targeting underage groups.

[/semi-satire mode]

Anyway, although the race is a big farce to me now, I secretly hope that McCain chooses a woman VP just to throw another wrench into things. I think that would be fun.
Wait, I know. He can combine the Democratic primary by picking Condaleeza Rice.
 
Damn Segway and segue... Shows how much my education has been worth so far! (lol)

===

I thought the acceptance speech from Obama was absolutely spectacular this evening, I'm really finding it difficult to convey how amazing I thought it was. There was something for everyone in it, and that is going to be the key for wooing undecided voters, Republicans and Independents included. I'd love to hear what everyone else thought of it, good bad or worse...

EDIT:

If you didn't watch, here is a link to the video and the full text of the speech.

This all makes me very excited for the GOP Convention next week. I'm really interested to hear what they have to offer, and to see what kind of plan they have for the next four years.
 
Last edited:
The problem I have is he made a lot... A LOT of promises that I don't think can be kept. There's got to be a catch and that's what I'm afraid of.

His speech though, was great... I mean it was different because it wasn't the same damn CHANGE speech, it went into detail and hit on what ALL Americans needed to hear or know is wrong with this place. He also showed a little common sense about it too, not being caught in this politics crap like we have been for the last 8 years.
 
Last edited:
The problem I have is he made a lot... A LOT of promises that I don't think can be kept. There's got to be a catch and that's what I'm afraid of.

The promises are pretty big, and that's what I'm afraid of as well. At this time in the election, its going to be important to roll a few out, but if I recall the figure they said on CNN and MSNBC, it was 29 big points he put out there. That's HUGE for anything close to something that can be completely accomplished without amazing circumstances. I think the only "catch" here is that you actually have to vote for a Democrat to get it all done (lol)...
 
Which is ironic a bit because his speech came off as not any one particular party but as America as a whole which I liked a lot better because not only are they "accountable", but we as a people of America are accountable too.

Did McCain really say that we were Mentally in a Recession? And that we were lazy? lol

I could care less about what he says then, I mean really? You don't know how many house you have? :rolleyes:

Seriously, that decided who I should vote for since it wasn't going to be McCain in the first place. Still... It's not about the talk it's about the action and again, that's what I'm worried about. The only good thing is we can only go up from here. Hopefully, Obama's actions are as good as his words.
 
Well, my first issue with Obama's speech was that my wife was watching it while I was trying to go to sleep. So, he gets negatives right there.


Moving on.

I am reading the text now and will comment as I go:
It is that promise that has always set this country apart - that through hard work and sacrifice, each of us can pursue our individual dreams but still come together as one American family, to ensure that the next generation can pursue their dreams as well.
I like this, but he has always been more on this do for each other (through government) than on the individual responsibility creates a stronger union thing. This does not sound like him.

Tonight, more Americans are out of work and more are working harder for less. More of you have lost your homes and even more are watching your home values plummet. More of you have cars you can't afford to drive, credit card bills you can't afford to pay, and tuition that's beyond your reach.

These challenges are not all of government's making. But the failure to respond is a direct result of a broken politics in Washington and the failed policies of George W. Bush.
And there it is. I see him basically saying, the hardship is partly your fault, not government's (after all government can do no wrong, just not enough right?), but it is government's responsibility to fix it.

BULL. This shows a lack of economic and Constitutional understanding on his part (or pandering). First, if the government hadn't gotten involved in wanting everyone to own a house the housing bubble wouldn't have happened (both parties pushed for that, by the way) and then the credit crisis wouldn't have followed quickly behind it.

Having government bail anyone out of this situation is unconstitutional, as it is a market problem and the best way to support individuals who need help would be through private voluntary charities, not forced government welfare programs.

For over two decades, he's subscribed to that old, discredited Republican philosophy - give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.
Considering this comes after two paragraphs accusing McCain of not getting it I find it funny, because he shows that he does not understand the economic theory he is attempting to make fun of.

Unlike John McCain, I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.

I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow.

I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.
You know, I could swear the Constitution makes a comment about taxes being even across the board.....
But why should he pay attention to that. No one else has.

And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as President: in ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

Washington's been talking about our oil addiction for the last thirty years, and John McCain has been there for twenty-six of them. In that time, he's said no to higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, no to investments in renewable energy, no to renewable fuels. And today, we import triple the amount of oil as the day that Senator McCain took office.

Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close.

As President, I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America. I'll make it easier for the American people to afford these new cars. And I'll invest 150 billion dollars over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy - wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels; an investment that will lead to new industries and five million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced.
So, he is going to throw $150 billion at every renewable energy technology and upgrade to current tech and hope one of them pays out after they get a small chunk of change?

1) The free market would be better at deciding that.
2) Ten years is a laughable goal. Between Democrats not wanting local drilling and everyone in America using oil like we do we will not be able to be independent of Middle East oil in such a short timeframe. It would take a combined effort of beginning drilling as much as possible right now and about half the population switching to a new tech. Since we don't have a new tech yet that switch over is still probably more than ten years off. Heck, we can't get people to buy a better type of TV at that rate, much less something that will cost thousands of dollars extra early on and has to be trusted to get you to and from work on a daily basis.

Now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy. Michelle and I are only here tonight because we were given a chance at an education. And I will not settle for an America where some kids don't have that chance. I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability. And we will keep our promise to every young American - if you commit to serving your community or your country, we will make sure you can afford a college education.
Last I checked education is a state issue. But nice talk.

Now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.
Wait, what is the plan again? It seems to me that every time government screws with health care it gets more expensive.

Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their jobs and caring for a sick child or ailing parent.
What part of private business does he not get?

And now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work, because I want my daughters to have exactly the same opportunities as your sons.
I have yet to run across this issue personally. If there are equality issues somewhere then it means that current laws aren't enforced.

Of course, other factors may play a roll in this as well. As a manager I see some of them.

And Democrats, we must also admit that fulfilling America's promise will require more than just money. It will require a renewed sense of responsibility from each of us to recover what John F. Kennedy called our "intellectual and moral strength." Yes, government must lead on energy independence, but each of us must do our part to make our homes and businesses more efficient. Yes, we must provide more ladders to success for young men who fall into lives of crime and despair. But we must also admit that programs alone can't replace parents; that government can't turn off the television and make a child do her homework; that fathers must take more responsibility for providing the love and guidance their children need.
Hey, individual responsibility. Now, if he would quit trying to make it government enforced.

But what I will not do is suggest that the Senator takes his positions for political purposes. Because one of the things that we have to change in our politics is the idea that people cannot disagree without challenging each other's character and patriotism.
So, does this mean he will get his speech writers to word Michelle's statements better? Cause a lot of the patriotism issues I heard came from their statements, not their policies.

No, I only use his policies to question his understanding of economics and the Constitution.

I know there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan Horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values. And that's to be expected. Because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from.
I will say that I don't think he is using these things as a Trojan horse to hide some evils scheme. No, I believe he has good intentions. Most bad policy comes from good intentions.




OK, so that is my last point.

In all it was a good speech. He was charismatic, and he has the ability to make people want to do something. Honestly, if I didn't understand the economy and the Constitution better then I would immediately want to jump by his side and support his ideas. But I do understand.

His ideas are either not plausible, not in line with the Constitution, and/or are things that the federal government has no place in dealing with.

He talks about change, but so do I. My problem is that when I talk about change and getting back to what we once had, I do not talk about getting back to eight years ago. That system was broken too. When I say I want change and to get back to what we once had I am looking back more at the government of nearly 100 years ago. You know, when it didn't mess with things, money represented something tangible not pieces of paper, and the education system worked, despite not being mandatory.

Obama's change is not change that we need.

I have thought this all along and his speech only reinforces that idea.

Just as I gave Obama a chance I will give McCain a chance, but I see him as no better.
 
Lets complete the quote:



...and in the speech immediately following...



I can understand what she means by it, but if you're offended, by all means it is your right to be. There are a lot of people who have been dissatisfied by government, what it does (or has done), and how politics have been practiced in recent time. But, you are welcome to take your own interpretation out of the quotes as well, I just don't find her offensive in any way, shape or form.

As if we have nothing else to be proud of in the last 20 years except finally becoming smart enough to be unhappy with GWB?

Like I said before - what a presumptuous bitch.

[edit]

Oh, and I guess just like all teenagers think they discovered sex, the Obamas think they have discovered "change". As if every non-incumbent politician since the dawn of recorded time (at least, since the dawn of recorded republics/democracies) hasn't campaigned based on the idea of change.

Anyway, although the race is a big farce to me now, I secretly hope that McCain chooses a woman VP just to throw another wrench into things. I think that would be fun.

And here you go!
 
Last edited:
Now I am popping popcorn for the debates, this will truly be entertaining.

One thing can now be said, whoever wins, it is a first.

In all honesty, it is likely a try for the feminist disenfrachised Hillary voters.

And just to add a picture to this.

082908_mccainpalin.jpg
 
***Dissects Obama's Speech***


You went easy on him. I was going to do that after reading YSSMAN's post, but saw that you had beaten me to it. Thanks for saving me a few hours. :)

YSSMAN, it's not a matter of liking the speech or not. Like FK showed above, just about every sentence out of Obama or McCain's mouth makes me want to throw something at the TV. Neither of them understand economics, the constitution, the concept of limited government, or the concept of individual responsibility.

I could find something unconstitutional, immoral, and just plain dumb with damn near every sentence of that speech.
 
I could find something unconstitutional, immoral, and just plain dumb with damn near every sentence of that speech.

You nattering nabob of negativity. Barack is for change, man! Change! How cool is that?!

Whoo-hoo! What do I win? (How ’bout a Libertarian President? I think that’s an appropriate prize.)

Speaking of change...
 
I have to say, objectively speaking, the McCain pick was well played. That possibly has split the Democratic Party even further.
 
YSSMAN, it's not a matter of liking the speech or not. Like FK showed above, just about every sentence out of Obama or McCain's mouth makes me want to throw something at the TV. Neither of them understand economics, the constitution, the concept of limited government, or the concept of individual responsibility.

Bob Barr 2008, then?

No worries, mate. I found FK's analysis interesting, and in some cases, similar to my own critiques on some of the smaller issues. It was an amazing speech, clearly populist in origin, but there were some shortcomings. I'll happily concede to that. The 10-year energy plan had me cringing a bit, but, we'll see what happens.

===

RE: Palin as VP?

At least in my opinion, while it is a very interesting choice, ultimately I think its a bad one. If they're trying to grab Hillary votes, it won't do the job, as she is pro-life and very committed to overturning Roe v Wade. If hes going to try to sell her on "experience," its laughable, since she has even less than Senator Obama. Generally, on the whole, she is not a well-documented politician...

Politico has an analysis of the choice here.

Apparently shes already in trouble in Alaska over the firing of her brother-in law, a state trooper. Not to mention the whole Ted Stevens thing that will likely come up...

====

Pop the popcorn kids, this is going to be one helluva election season!
 
So, exactly how ticked would Hillary be if McCain wins now?

I mean, if he wins then he just stole any chance she had for thunder.

I am going to love watching the pundits tonight.

Danoff, I may be distracted during our FFL draft.
 
Now I am popping popcorn for the debates, this will truly be entertaining.

One thing can now be said, whoever wins, it is a first.

In all honesty, it is likely a try for the feminist disenfrachised Hillary voters.

And just to add a picture to this.

082908_mccainpalin.jpg

Never thought she'd go for it. Oh well. At least there is hope for the future in Mark Sanford. He could have picked Palin as a failsafe of sorts should they lose. Fortunately or unfortunately, the worst part of this ticket is still Mr. McCain.

edit: You know what the worst part about this pick is? Joe Lieberman could actually wind up being the secretary of state! UGH!
 
Last edited:
Not really election related, but is anyone else enjoying the nuclear melt down at MSNBC during the convention? I can't wait for their RNC coverage...
 
PalinFamily_Outside_web.jpg


I don't know, man. Bristol Palin is only 17. Not legal... not even in Alaska. I like Meghan McCain a bit better:

meghan-mccain.jpg


God damn, a Mac Book Pro, a Blackberry, and a Bud Light. Can't get any hawter than that.

On a side note: The rumors about the Palins are just despicable. The intellectual retards at dKos, HuffPo, and the social rejects at Digg just amaze me. Those on the Left, the base of the Democratic party, just create things out of thin air. One more reason why the Democrats will lose... again.
 
Who is Sarah Palin?

John McCain makes me so sick. Way to pander to women you old fart. I swear you guys, McCain is going to croak of a heart-attack or something like two years from now, and we're going to beat to the drum of Sarah who? Are you joking me. Mayor/hockey mom is going to be the Commander-in-chief of this country? I'm going to be so disappointed if Hillary voters if they vote Republican. Sarah somebody is the opposite of what Hillary is.

I feel Obama's VP on the other hand is a great pick.

McCain gave away the election. Ha.
 
You are going to be very disappointed this November, Matt R.

edit:

WHOOP WHOOP... WHOOP WHOOP! DIDDY/OBAMA BLOG... DIDDY/OBAMA BLOG!

Content warning:



Diddy reminds me of you, Matt R.
 
Last edited:
Who is Sarah Palin?

John McCain makes me so sick. Way to pander to women you old fart. I swear you guys, McCain is going to croak of a heart-attack or something like two years from now, and we're going to beat to the drum of Sarah who? Are you joking me. Mayor/hockey mom is going to be the Commander-in-chief of this country? I'm going to be so disappointed if Hillary voters if they vote Republican. Sarah somebody is the opposite of what Hillary is.
Ahahaha.

How ironic. You talk about how negative Sarah Palin will be for the country, and then you end your rant with, "She's the opposite of what Hillary is".
It's hilarious how your ignorance and lack of political knowledge just turned your whole rant into basically saying how great Sarah would actually be for this country.

Matt, your post is exactly that of what people call a sheep following Obama.
I feel Obama's VP on the other hand is a great pick.
Which is a hypocritical choice. Obama preaches change, and then he picks a VP whose been in office since 1973. :rolleyes:
McCain gave away the election. Ha.
McCain just won the election, if that's what you mean. If anything, the Hillary supporters who detest Obama, just found Sarah as their beacon of hope.
 
You know, I could swear the Constitution makes a comment about taxes being even across the board.....
But why should he pay attention to that. No one else has.
Someone I was discussing politics with made a comment on this. He said that that part of the 16th Amendment meant that the taxes had to apply across the country evenly rather than being uniform based on wages. Any help on this? I dunno which one is right.
 
Back