Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%
  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%
  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%
  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
Perhaps it is a misunderstanding of words between everyone then? If it is Palin's case to demonstrate special examples of capitalism in her state, it is a poor choice of words. If it was Obama's case to demonstrate how his tax plan would benefit the middle class, it was a poor choice of words.

RE: "Its a people's decision"

Governor Crist (R-FL) was on the short-list to be considered for McCain's VP nomination, and as memory serves, Florida has always been a hotly contended state given what had occurred in 2000 and 2004. Laws had been placed on the books by Republicans to shorten early voting days to eight hours, and with the demands by the public to make the best use of these, massive lines were a byproduct, and consequently voters were turned away. For Governor Crist to make it a non-partisan issue to extend the voting days despite the former allegiances to the McCain campaign, well, I find it to be a sign of good-will in the coming days before the election. Its unfortunate that we won't see the same thing happen across the country.
 
Who's tired of Obama trying to "spread the wealth around", exposing more audio tapes of Obama's creepy associations, and tired of his campagin blacklisting news stations for asking tough questions?

Well, I got some relief for you.

Finally, it is time... to DANCE!!!



Daaayuuum, Obama got served!!!11
 
RE: "Its a people's decision"

Come on now, you've gone and changed the quote. Is it "...a people decision", or is it "a people's decision"? The latter insinuates that the people (the word people in this case describes the whole of Florida's voting citizens) howled for the voting period to be extended, while the former (the first one you posted) insinuates that the government made the decision on its own behalf. Which one is it? The government making a decision because they felt a decision was necessary or your later quote meaning that the government's decision was influenced by the people's wants?

EDIT: According to the Miami Herald the quote reads "It's a people decision." That makes me think the government made this decision for, not on behalf of, the people. It also sounds like hypocrisy, because she would probably be one to say that the government is meant to operate on behalf of us, as opposed to for us.
 
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My apologies on the misquote, I misread it in my own head. Anyway, it was a decision made by the government to help the people of Florida in "an emergency," to extend the voting hours to make sure that those who are in line can get the votes in. I really do not think that there is anything wrong with that. To make it non-partisan was a good move for the voters, and I appreciate it. I don't really care who the people are voting for as long as they're voting, and if they weren't able to cast them, that would have been discouraging to others out there.

Granted of course, this is just Florida, not something across the country.

And who is "she" by the way? This is only pertaining to Governor Crist of Florida.
 
Looks like there will be an interesting group watching Obama's infomercial tonight.

picture1.jpg
 
Who's tired of Obama trying to "spread the wealth around", exposing more audio tapes of Obama's creepy associations, and tired of his campagin blacklisting news stations for asking tough questions?

Well, I got some relief for you.

Finally, it is time... to DANCE!!!



Daaayuuum, Obama got served!!!11


Oh dear, the poor old man is getting senile :(

 
And who is "she" by the way? This is only pertaining to Governor Crist of Florida.
I guess Crist being his last name didn't occur to me. Actually, the real reason is because I'm biased against women in positions of power, and the name Crist reminded me of a female.

But either way, I hope he's not reading this...

Oh dear, the poor old man is getting senile :(
Lol. It's my belief that when a politician "mixes up his words" he's actually "telling the truth on accident".
 
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Good read...

October 29, 2008
Exactly Wrong, Again
By Randall Hoven

The message blasted at us day after day by the Obama campaign and its public relations machine, otherwise known as mainstream media, is that we are in a recession, we have been for essentially the last eight years, and the US is unique in this because of the failed policies of George W. Bush.

We are not in recession. The economy of the last eight years has been fine. And we are doing better than our European know-it-alls who favor an Obama victory. At least that's what the most recent economic data show.

A standard definition of recession is two consecutive quarters of negative real growth. However, the last two quarters of data, January through June, were both positive and in fact the most recent quarter was fairly strong at +2.8%. The preliminary estimate of GDP for the third quarter (July through September) is scheduled to come out this Thursday, October 30. So far, we have had zero consecutive quarters of negative growth. If Thursday's number indicates negative growth, that will still be only one quarter in a row.

In the last eight years there have been no consecutive quarters of negative real growth, none. Then why do we say there was a recession in 2001? Because the National Bureau of Economic Research, the accepted recession referee, used a much more complicated formula. And the NBER said there was an eight month recession in 2001, from March to November.

Around that time there were three (non-consecutive) quarters of negative growth, one under President Clinton (Q3 of 2000) and two under George W. Bush (Q1 and Q3 of 2001). An outside observer might think that if there was a recession at all then, it started under President Clinton. Instead, the NBER said it started six weeks after Bush was sworn in.

In fact, George W. Bush has the distinction of presiding over the only recession of the 20th century in which there was no year-to-year negative real GDP growth at all, as well as no two consecutive negative quarters. Thank you, NBER.

Since 2001 there has been only one quarter of negative real GDP growth: the fourth quarter of 2007, at -0.2%. However, that quarter was preceded by two quarters of strongly positive real growth: +4.8% in each of the previous two quarters. In all, GDP growth was +2.3% in 2007.

The real GDP growth under all George W. Bush averaged 2.3% per year so far. The individual years were as follows.

2001 +0.2%

2002 +1.9%

2003 +3.7%

2004 +3.1%

2005 +2.7%

2006 +2.4%

2007 +2.3%

2008 +1.8% (first half only)


If you don't have a feel for what is considered "good", I recommend the four-point scale just like in school. GDP growth of 4% or above is an A, 3% a B, 2% a C, 1% a D and below 1% is an F. At an overall average of 2.3%, George W. Bush earns a C. His only F was in 2001, with a recession inherited from President Clinton, nine months under Clinton's federal budget, and the 9/11 attacks.

In fact, Bush got his best marks in the middle of his two terms, suspiciously matching when both houses of Congress had Republican majorities.

GDP does not measure everything, of course. But unemployment averaged 5.2% under Bush, exactly the same as under Clinton. And the recent level of 6.1% is not considered all that high by historical standards. In fact, the level was at or above 6.1% for 19 consecutive months under Clinton. Inflation has been tame. Real disposable personal income grew. We're OK. Or at least we were through June.

And how does this compare with our better, wiser European counterparts? Unlike the US, which showed positive growth of 2.8% in the second quarter of 2008, Europe's GDP declined 0.2% . In particular, France's GDP declined 0.3% and Germany's declined 0.5% .

Now tell me, if George W. Bush is the problem, why has Europe's economy declined while the US's hasn't? Is Europe leading the world in laissez-faire economics and deregulation -- is that the problem?

European stock markets have nothing to brag about when comparing themselves to the US.

World Stock Markets

Country (Market)


Dec-00 (pre-Bush) Oct-08 (now) Change

US (S&P 500) 1,320 877 -34%

UK (FTSE) 6,223 3,883 -38%

Germany (DAX) 6,434 4,296 -33%

France (CAC 40) 5,926 3,194 -46%

Switzerland (SSMI) 8,135 5,675 -30%

Sweden (OMXS) 304* 187 -38% *Jan-01

The real story is exactly the opposite of that being told by the Obama campaign and mainstream media. The problem is lack of free markets.


* The federal register in 2004 held 78,851 pages of regulations, or the equivalent of 30 New Deals. The equivalent of almost two New Deals was added between 1999 and 2004.
* Sarbanes-Oxley, adding onerous new regulations on corporations designed to hopefully prevent future Enrons, was enacted in mid-2002. It didn't quite work with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac or investment banks, did it?
* The first increase in the minimum wage in 10 years came in 2007; a second increase came in the summer of 2008. In May of 2007 (before the increase), the unemployment rate stood at 4.5%. The latest rate (after two minimum wage increases in two years) stands at 6.1%.
* The housing and financial crisis can be attributed directly to federal regulations and mismanagement at the Government Sponsored Entities of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.


If there was a failure to regulate hedge funds, Credit Deposit Swaps, etc., then that failure was worldwide and not something dreamed up by George W. Bush. If you haven't noticed, banks are failing around the globe, virtually every stock market around the globe is in decline (usually more than US markets), and Iceland is essentially bankrupt.

Iceland. Tell me again how George Bush destroyed Iceland's economy.

It is possible that this Thursday's real GDP growth estimate for the third quarter will be positive. What will everyone say then? If it is, that will mean a full year of recession talk coming from the media with absolutely zero real data to back it up. Even if the number indicates negative growth, it would not necessarily mean recession, since that would be only one quarter so far. And if we are in recession, then it started very recently, and after the recession in Europe.

Here's a tip: stop imitating Europe. A government should not need to spend 40% of a country's GDP, for example.

Frankly, I'm surprised our economy has done as well as it has for as long as it has. Virtually everything the government has done to "help", hurt. Stock markets are down about 30% since the bailout was passed, for example.

Or is it since an Obama victory looks likely?

Randall Hoven can be contacted at randall.hoven@gmail.com or via his web site, kulak.worldbreak.com.
 
Randell Hoven
Now tell me, if George W. Bush is the problem, why has Europe's economy declined while the US's hasn't?

:lol: What? I think they've both done their fair share of declining. The market is a freaking roller coaster (for some reason he only mentions S&P and not all the markets we have here), the housing market has collapsed, the auto market is on it's way to doing just the same, and one of our biggest companies (GM) is begging for money. He thinks our economy hasn't declined why?

I don't agree with a lot of what Hoven is saying, he seems to think America didn't play any role in the global downfall when in reality they were one of the many reasons of the global economic crisis. The US plays a huge role in global economies, as do several other countries. When one gets weak in the knees they whole globe takes a massive dive due to fears.

That article really comes across as pro-Conservative hooey written by a Bush cheerleader. Bush's administration played a role in the global instability, but so have several administrations before as have many other leaders from around the world. There is no one cause of the downturn.
 
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for some reason he only mentions S&P and not all the markets we have here
The Dow Jones is only down 16.7% from what it was on the final trading day of Clinton's presidency.
Furthermore, the S&P 500 is the second largest watched stock market index in America.
So I ask: What is your point?


The market is a freaking roller coaster
Which has happened something like 4 times since Reagan left office, all in similar amounts to what has been seen recently.

the housing market has collapsed,
As a result of poor decisions stemming from the late 90s.

the auto market is on it's way to doing just the same,
As a result of poor decisions stemming from the mid 90s.

and one of our biggest companies (GM) is begging for money
Which is directly related to the above bit.

He thinks our economy hasn't declined why?
Because there is no tangible proof of it yet?

Bush's administration played a role in the global instability, but so have several administrations before as have many other leaders from around the world. There is no one cause of the downturn.
There is a difference between playing a role in an economic downturn (and I wouldn't even go that far with such a claim) and being directly responsible for the entire world recession. Obama has been contending time and time again that this world recession is directly the fault of George Bush, and the scary thing is that people are buying it.
 
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The market is a freaking roller coaster (for some reason he only mentions S&P and not all the markets we have here)
From Wiki, because I'm lazy:

S&P 500
The S&P 500 is a stock market index containing the stocks of 500 Large-Cap corporations, all of which are from the United States...After the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the S&P 500 is the most widely watched index of large-cap US stocks. It is considered to be a bellwether for the US economy and is a component of the Index of Leading Indicators.

Now:
Bellwether
A bellwether is any entity in a given arena that serves to create or influence trends or to presage future happenings.
And literally, the word bellwether is directly related to--get this--predicting the movements of a flock of sheep. :lol: And I guess I now know why the term "sheep" is used so often on the net...

Index of Leading Indicators
The Index of Leading Indicators is an American economic index intended to estimate future economic activity.
So there you have it. It's important. Now, a couple other examples:

FTSE 350 Index
The FTSE 350 Index index is a market capitalisation weighted stock market index incorporating the largest 350 companies by capitalisation which have their primary listing on the London Stock Exchange.

CAC 40
The CAC 40...is a benchmark French stock market index. The index represents a capitalization-weighted measure of the 40 most significant values among the 100 highest market caps on the Paris Bourse (now Euronext Paris).
I gather that all these markets are major ones, and that they're used to track the biggest companies in the present and estimate their futures.
 
...and the name Crist reminded me of a female...

The first time I heard of him a while back I had to ask my friend sitting next to me in class if he said "Christ." That'd be awkward in a state like Florida...
 
I never said the S&P wasn't important, the Dow and NASDAQ markets are just as important as well. I'm just curious why he didn't mention other ones when they are clearly important with the Dow probably being the most important one we have here in America. If it wasn't then the news wouldn't be filled with headlines talking about it.

And seriously there is no proof our economy is failing? Where have you been? I can drive around my neighbourhood and tell the economy is tanking.

I'm not saying Bush is the cause of anything, I'm saying his administration was a contributor to it along with many many many others.
 
I'm just curious why he didn't mention other ones when they are clearly important with the Dow probably being the most important one we have here in America.
He probably used the S&P because it took the hardest hit out of the Big 3 Indexes since Clinton left office (as you have to ignore the Nasdaq index in this example).

If it wasn't then the news wouldn't be filled with headlines talking about it.
The same news also neglects to remember that this same thing has happened twice since Bush has taken office. By which I mean twice before the current situation. And neither of those times had anything to do with the Bush Administration being in office either.

I can drive around my neighbourhood and tell the economy is tanking.
In Michigan. Where the U.S. automakers are bleeding money. Because of bad business decisions made in the mid 90s. Which had absolutely nothing to do with the government (be it the Clinton or Bush Administration) at all.
The American auto industry crisis is completely separate from the housing collapse and world recession, and would have happened anyways. Therefore, "Oh no Michigan is in an economic hole" doesn't apply to that article.


I'm saying his administration was a contributor to it along with many many many others.
And I'm sure you have some sort of tangible evidence of this, because all I see is stupid people buying things they couldn't afford with loans given to them by stupid banks.
 
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Therefore, "Oh no Michigan is in an economic hole" doesn't apply to that article.

Here is where we reach a problem, however. Its not just Michigan that has been facing terrible economic problems for the past eight years, its been Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, West Virginia, Florida, etc. Most of those examples, yes, are a part of the economic industrial backbone of our economy, and when they begin to perform poorly, it is a bad sign for the rest of the country no matter how "peachy" things may be in California, Arizona, Texas or New York.

It is difficult for people outside of these zones to understand what we have been dealing with for the past several years, and while I do not expect you to, nor to change your position because of it, I would hope that you would at least understand that we're just as important as the rest of the country, and like it or not, much of your own success is determined by the success or failure of those of us that have otherwise been left behind.

Either way, we can point to all sorts of positive or negative economic indicators under the supervision of any President, and consequently, many of us are smart enough to know that it is never a direct connection between the performance of the NYSE or NASDAQ with whomever is in office. That does not mean that their policies will not effect it in some way, but it isn't as though they are in control of the leaver either. It is one of many paradoxes of the presidency, but nevertheless, the average American voter makes that connection consistently. It is not a lie to say that Bush oversaw a massive economic slide under his administration, but we can certainly stretch the truth in any direction in how we wish to paint his action/inaction on the issue.
 
Good read...

So if the economy is fine why does McCain insist that it isn't as well? I seem to remember a backtrack on his statement that "the fundamentals of the economy are strong".

Sure, the US economy may not be in recession yet but it has been having **** all growth the past few years, and the lack of proper regulation which caused the financial crisis stemmed from the USA and has then gone on to affect world markets. Obviously Europe is going to be having a downturn as well since it's so interconnected with the US economy, I don't see the point this guy is trying to make...that Europe are hypocrits because they're suffering due to a **** up in the USA?
 
This has to be the most important election in the history of the modern world, and I can't buy a vote! Yet, its a vote that will have a massive impact on my life. Still, I'm easy about that, my life isn't my own anyway. I just hope that the right guy wins.

I think the right guy is Barrack Obama. I'm not jumping on the band wagon here, I voiced my support for him almost two years ago, and its nice to see that my faith in the man, has not been misplaced.

I'm usually indifferent towards American politics (and very confrontational about America in general), but Barrack is like no other politician I have ever seen. He makes me watch him, his power and presence makes the hairs on the back of my neck stick up! More so than anything else, he make me believe in America.

It might surprise you to know that one of my greatest hero's was John F Kennedy. I was never fortunate to live within his life time, but his words and ideals strike a cord with me. Barrack Obama feels to me like JFK, even more so.

A lot is said of Obama's lack of experience in foreign relations and such, but that is irrelevant. When Tony Blair won election in our country, he was in the same situation. What experience had Tony Blair had before he was elected Prime Minister? What he did do though was to bring the country out of a dark period, and onward into a brighter future. I'm not saying that Blair never made any mistakes (he made a few), but our country has changed (and I believe) for the better.

Barrack Obama will do the same for America, you just need to believe. It seems to me that the only weapon that the Republicans have left is fear - its a recurring theme in their rhetoric. Fear of terrorism, fear about the economy, fear about change, even fear of fear itself! Is that how you are supposed to run a country? I don't think so. Hope is where its at!

Vote for Barrack Obama, he's had mine since day one!
 
...my life isn't my own anyway.
Sounds like you've been brainwashed by a typical European socialist economy. Or something near it, at least. That's what we sensible Americans are trying to prevent over here. I believe Americans have gumption. I can't imagine that people would forget what it means to be an American and end themselves up in a situation like England and many other Europeans nations. The thought blows my mind.
 
Barrack Obama feels to me like JFK, even more so.
One was fighting socialists while the other is reading economic policy from their playbook. Odd.


EDIT: Since tone is hard to read online; it is a joke.
 
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One was fighting socialists while the other is reading economic policy from their playbook. Odd.

No... JFK was fighting against Communism, not Socialism. They are different.


Obama is using some Socialist ideas because are current system is obviously not working. You people should be thinking of your whole country, not just whats in your pockets. If your afraid of raising taxes from those big CEO's? They 're the ones making Billions of dollars, and getting tax breaks. You know why they pay more? They make more. What we pay now in taxes is less then minimal, and compared to the Reagan era we are paying absolutly nothing.

You say donation moneys are suppost to help the people that don't get the chances these rich ceo's have? Guess what, not nearly enough people donate. Personally, I would much rather have a healthy prosperous country with people actually being happy, not where one group of people make all the money.

Now for the candidates, if I could vote it would be on the Nadar box because I like his 0.01% tax on all stocks which would pretty much cure are economic problems over night. Thats 0.01%, absolutly nothing for one person, but it adds up with the billions and trillions of dollars in the stock market. Now if I was in a state that was closer it would be Obama because I would never be able to live with McCain who spent his life being spoon fed everything, he was disrespectful to everyone, but no matter what he did he could get away from it because of his father and grandfather. You guys think being a Conservitive makes you a real man and shows you worked hard. McCain is the biggest wuss ever. The only thing I could ever respect him for doing is actually seeing combat unlike Bush who just cheapshotted his way into the National Guard.

Also McCain does have cancer and doctors gave him only a few years to live. What does that leave us with? Oh yeah Palin the Parrot. If you think Obama and Biden are trying the dodge the hard questions, Palin is dodging all questions. She just says "Thats not really my field of play" But if your likely going to be President of the United States you better have a better awnser then that. Oh yeah you better have a background, going to 4-5 different colleges for a year or two each on Journalism, then being a Mayor of a small town of seven thousand? Then Governor for less then two years of a not very populated state? Hell I would feel better with Arnold as President.
 
No... JFK was fighting against Communism, not Socialism. They are different.
It was a joke.

Obama is using some Socialist ideas because are current system is obviously not working.
It was working fine until government got involved.

You people should be thinking of your whole country, not just whats in your pockets.
If I was purely thinking of what was in my pockets I would vote for Obama since he wants to give me money someone else earned.

If your afraid of raising taxes from those big CEO's?
Why would I be afraid? I am not afraid to do it, I don't believe violating the Constitution and violating someone's individual rights is the correct thing to do no matter who they are or what they do.

They 're the ones making Billions of dollars, and getting tax breaks. You know why they pay more? They make more.
If you had a big house with tons of rooms that you never use it would not be right for me to take some bricks from it to build a one room shack. Why is it right to take money from someone who has more than they need and give it to anyone else? When you do it outside of taxes it is called stealing.

Personally, I would much rather have a healthy prosperous country with people actually being happy, not where one group of people make all the money.
Personally, I would rather have a country where people are responsible for themselves, make their own happiness, and when they have money have a sense of accomplishment in the end. I would also rather a country where individual rights are recognized and principles are upheld, not one where we sacrifice those things just so that everyone can feel good about having money they didn't earn.

You guys think being a Conservitive makes you a real man and shows you worked hard.
I am trying to find who on GTP said that, but I am having trouble.


Note: I have ignored all your McCain comments because, as you can see in this thread, I have not supported him, nor did I vote for him in the poll.
 
No... JFK was fighting against Communism, not Socialism. They are different.
Ever heard the Married With Children theme song? You know, AL Bundy and the family? You can't have one without the other. Socialism only works well the government controls everything, and then it all goes to pot. Therefore, neither work.

Obama is using some Socialist ideas because are current system is obviously not working.
The reason our current system is troubled is because our government has imposed and the idiots have voted for too many socialist policies.
 
Sounds like you've been brainwashed by a typical European socialist economy. Or something near it, at least. That's what we sensible Americans are trying to prevent over here. I believe Americans have gumption. I can't imagine that people would forget what it means to be an American and end themselves up in a situation like England and many other Europeans nations. The thought blows my mind.

It was once said that there is no more a deluded fool, than that who thinks he is free (or words to that effect). Are you free or are you deluded perhaps? I know I'm not free (and thus not deluded).

As for brainwashing, I don't think so. If you class patriotism as brainwashing then maybe, but I'm anti on most things European, so I fail to see how I have been brain washed by anything.

I have to ask, what 'situation' you think the United Kingdom (not England!) is in, because we have the 4th largest economy in the world! Do you believe that is that a bad position to be in?

keef
I believe Americans have gumption.

Explain to me then, how George W Bush got elected twice? :lol:

One was fighting socialists while the other is reading economic policy from their playbook. Odd.

Odd indeed. I thought JFK was fighting the communists, not socialists! I will agree that there are similarities between socialism and communism, but they are not the same entity. Or are you calling us Brits communists? ;)
 
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