Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%
  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%
  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%
  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
I normally agree with Cramer on most things, but as he says in this, where politics are "personal," I believe that he is taking this all a bit too personal as well. What it comes down to here is that they disagree on policy, and I do not believe that it places him on an "enemy list" of the White House (Rush, well, that happens). What it comes down to is that we're having the proper discussion about what should be happening, and what is most-important is that there are plenty of dissenting ideas out there against the Obama plan against those that are in favor of it.

Did you guys watch The Daily Show last night? Their piece "CNBC Gives Financial Advice" was a good exercise in how silly all of this is right now.

The Huffington Post
The Daily Show on Wednesday was supposed to feature guest Rick Santelli, a reporter on CNBC. Santelli is infamous for his rant against Obama's mortgage plan, calling homeowners who are struggling to pay their loans "losers."

Santelli backed out, or err, "bailed out," as Stewart put it, from the interview. Instead, Stewart launched into a nearly nine-minute take down of the business news channel. Here are some of the highlights:

Mad Money's Jim Cramer telling his audience that Bear Stearns is in good shape. "Bear Stearns is fine... If there is one take away, it's that Bear Stearns is not in trouble." Six days later the investment bank went under.

Another Mad Money moment: Jim Cramer touting Bank of America stock as "now the cheapest and the best." That was back in October 2007, when the stock was worth $16 a share. Its now down to around $4 a share.

Maybe the most shocking Jim Cramer gem is when he is advising that his audience buy stocks: "You should be buying these, and accept that they are overvalued, but accept that they are going to keep going higher. I know that sounds irresponsible but that's how you make the money." On that day in 2007, the Dow was at 13,930. It is now below 7,000.

"If I had only followed CNBC's advice," Stewart says at one point, "I'd have a million dollars today. Provided I started with a 100 million dollars."

There is also an interview with alleged $8 billion ponzi schemer, Allen Stanford. The reporter asks: "You managed to avoid the subprime debacle almost entirely. What told you it was not a wise move?"

Stewart jumps in: "I ran a ponzi scheme! Instead of investing the money, I stole it!"

Stewart says of Stanford and the reporter interviewing him, "**** you. You know, between the two of them, I cant decide which one of those guys I'd rather see in jail."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/05/...
 
CNBC has always been a bunch of bulls (syn. for batters). Santelli was the closest to sane of all the keynesian wackos and overly optimistic monetarists on that station.
 
I normally agree with Cramer on most things, but as he says in this, where politics are "personal," I believe that he is taking this all a bit too personal as well. What it comes down to here is that they disagree on policy, and I do not believe that it places him on an "enemy list" of the White House (Rush, well, that happens). What it comes down to is that we're having the proper discussion about what should be happening, and what is most-important is that there are plenty of dissenting ideas out there against the Obama plan against those that are in favor of it.

Did you guys watch The Daily Show last night? Their piece "CNBC Gives Financial Advice" was a good exercise in how silly all of this is right now.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/05/...
I actually saw that episode yesterday (7:00 rerun), and a large number of their clips were from 2007 and early 2008. Conveniently they had none after this past summer, when the market truly began to fall and it was apparent that this was the big collapse.

But this is The Daily Show, and hardly a non-biased or even remotely credible news source. But hey, if The Huffington Post wants to counter economists with comedians, then I'll let them have at it.
 
OK, so finally I see the president do something I can agree with.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/fir...lift-restrictions-stem-cell-research-funding/
President Obama plans to sign an executive order Monday lifting restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, in the latest reversal of his predecessor's policies.

The move fulfills a campaign promise, and supporters say it will open up a broad front of research to find better treatments for ailments from diabetes to Parkinson's disease.

The goal, administration officials told FOX News, will be to allow federal researchers access to more available lines of embryonic stem cells than currently exist.

Embryonic stem cells are master cells that can morph into any cell of the body. Scientists hope to harness them so they can create replacement tissues to treat a variety of diseases.

Now, the question is, does he approach this in a way that can keep the Conservative concerns down? A little education that this is not going to encourage abortions (maybe not allowing the selling of embryos to researchers?) and perhaps not allowing any federal dollars to be handed around to any and all research despite how little results they may show.

They also need to show that embryonic stem cells will achieve something more than other alternatives. It might be a tough sell as there has been success in growing a living, beating heart in a lab without this. They will need to point out how the embryonic stem cell research could be different or better.

So far embryonic stem cell talk has been a yes or no discussion, with no one explaining the why in terms that opponents can understand, or not argue against. The administration needs to explain these things to avoid looking to be more divisive, and arguably be considered supporting the notion of murder to do so.

Personal note: My stance is that I oppose abortion, but as long as it is allowed then why not do the research necessary. But if the system is setup in a way to encourage abortions then it has some moral implications that need to be examined.


Also, in continuing my trend of not bashing the president today:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/08/business/shelby.php

Top Republicans say banks should be allowed to fail
By J. David Goodman and Brian Knowlton Published: March 8, 2009

NEW YORK: John McCain and Richard Shelby, two high-profile Republican senators, said Sunday that the government should allow a number of the biggest U.S. banks to fail.

"Close them down, get them out of business," Shelby, the senior Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, said on the ABC television program "This Week With George Stephanopoulos." "If they're dead, they ought to be buried."

While the Alabama senator did not say which banks should shut down, he suggested that Citigroup might be on that list, saying the bank has "always been a problem child."

McCain, appearing on "Fox News Sunday," echoed that sentiment without identifying banks. McCain, who lost the U.S. presidential election in November, accused the Treasury Department of avoiding the "hard decision" to let "these banks fail."
Seriously? Mr. we have to cancel the debate so that we can go to Washington and be sure this bailout measure passes, is suddenly saying banks should be allowed to fail? Hey, maybe you should have said that before you voted to throw $700 billion at those banks.

Has he really seen his error, or is he just trying to get back at the president now that he realize the American people do not want their money being handed out to banks that are collapsing and taking the rest of America with them?


And on that same note: Danoff, I think you will find this opinion piece fitting to your current situation.

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/03/07/diamond_taxes_obama/
Hey, Mr. President: Who You Calling Rich?
By Stephen P. Diamond, Jr.
Progressive Blogger/Street Sweeper.com/Attorney

Last week, millions of Americans were surprised to discover that they are rich.

Well, not really.

But under President Obama’s proposed budget, many taxpayers earning more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 for married couples) and less than $500,000 have suddenly found themselves lumped together with the likes of Stephen Schwarzman and Donald Trump, even though they don’t own a private jet, live in a baronial mansion or bring Rod Stewart in to sing for them at their birthday parties.

I applaud the President for ramming through a massive stimulus package to kick start the economy into recovery. But his idea to fund it by raising taxes on the very people who will need to pick up where the stimulus package leaves off, is myopic and dangerously misguided.

Fortune magazine’s Shawn Tully has called these people “HENRYs” –aka “high earners, not rich yet.” They are doctors, lawyers, consultants, managers and small business owners who have prospered in recent years. At first glance, the president’s plan to make the rich pay a bigger share of the nation’s tax bill would seem to make sense.

The only problem is that the HENRYs are not rich.

As Tully explains, “‘Rich’ means personal wealth, or net worth, not income.” Raising taxes on HENRYs at a time when much of the value of their assets–their homes and retirement portfolios–has evaporated, could have unintended negative consequences for the economy and the president’s plan for recovery. Why? Because the HENRYs are big spenders. They are “the bulwark of the professional and entrepreneurial class that drives the economy,” writes Tully.

He’s not kidding. A 2007 HSBC Direct Consumer Survey found that people earning between $50,000 and $100,000 save more regularly than people earning between $200,000 and $250,000 per year, and revealed that 49% of respondents earning at least $250,000 a year failed to save more because they “want some spending money.”

On top of their discretionary purchases, HENRYs carry significant mortgages, pay heavy property taxes, make charitable donations and sock money away for their children’s college education.

Under the president’s plan, beginning in 2011, HENRYs would see their federal income tax rates rise from 33% to 36% and, in the highest tax bracket, from 35% to 39.6%. More importantly, the president’s plan would reduce the amount of mortgage interest and charitable donations that HENRYs could deduct for income tax purposes, from 35% to 28%.

Faced with declining asset values, tough economic times and higher tax bills, HENRYs will very likely rein in discretionary spending this year and next.

That’s bad news for a consumer-driven economy like the United States, which saw consumer spending in the fourth quarter of 2008 plunge to a 26-year low. But reducing mortgage interest deductions makes even less sense when the federal government is trying to reverse or at least stabilize falling housing prices–which, lest we forget, is how we got into this mess in the first place. One of the main incentives for HENRYs to buy a house (or anyone else for that matter) is that they can deduct more than a third of their annual mortgage interest payments from their adjusted gross income. Why buy a house when taxes are climbing and the housing market is tanking if the government is removing your ability to afford the payments?

In fact, the president’s decision to squeeze more taxes from HENRYs is pregnant with potential negative consequences.

Dual income families, in which one spouse’s salary is just below $250,000 and the other’s is significantly less, may decide that the increase in their marginal tax rate negates the benefits of the second salary , when combined with existing high childcare expenses. Many of these families could move to cut their tax liability and expenses by having one parent stop working to raise their children. Childcare companies would see smaller revenues, household spending would decrease and the U.S. labor force would contract even further (both from parents leaving the work force and childcare company lay offs), to name just a few possible ramifications.

If higher income taxes force HENRYs to cut back further charitable organizations, public school systems (many HENRYs send their children to private schools), automakers and other public and private sectors of the economy will pay the price. Such unintended consequences would work to counteract the potential benefits of the economic stimulus package the president signed last month.

I applaud the president for ramming through a massive stimulus package to kick start the economy into recovery. But his idea to fund it by raising taxes on the very people who will need to pick up where the stimulus package leaves off, is myopic and dangerously misguided.

Japan proved during its so-called “Lost Decade” that raising taxes during an economic downturn has a negative effect on consumer spending. “To counter mounting debt created by government stimulus packages,” observed former Secretary of the Treasury (and State) James Baker in Monday’s Financial Times, “Japan increased taxes in 1997. Consumption dropped and the country’s economy collapsed.”

The Japanese experience holds an ominous warning for President Obama.

Make no mistake–high net worth Americans (i.e., the truly rich) can afford and should pay higher taxes. But the president has cast too wide a net in his attempt to capture the big fish. Under his plan he will also trap the smaller ones that need to be let go. His recovery can’t work if he follows his current plan. Unless he wants his economic initiatives to fail, he should let the HENRYs go.
I disagree with the author's support of the stimulus package, but he makes a good point regarding where the president has drawn his rich tax.
 
My bosses are exactly in that category. They founded their own business 3 years ago and thanks to a good client the company has made a fair amount of money. Since they are sole owners, all that money is basically taxed at income rates for them, even though they are actually not taking home that much of it. One of my bosses, thanks to the current market, is having to refinance his small townhouse this year in order to pay his income taxes.
 
FoolKiller
Now, the question is, does he approach this in a way that can keep the Conservative concerns down?
I think the larger question is "Is he doing this just to bolster Democratic support?" A.K.A. "Riding the Bush hate train."


On the opinion piece: I still have never heard anyone explain why the rich should have to pay proportionately more taxes. Even better when they claim its fair that they should.
 
I think the larger question is "Is he doing this just to bolster Democratic support?" A.K.A. "Riding the Bush hate train."
The answer to that lies in how much he really believes his own line regarding putting science in its rightful place, as if Bush brought in a whole bunch of witch doctors and started performing exorcisms on terrorist prisoners. Honestly, outside of stem cells I don't know what Bush did to remove science. I'm not even sure if he did more than voice his support for an intelligent design discussion in schools.

As for Bush's personal thoughts...I don't know.

But I think you are on to something. How much care the president puts into not letting stem cells become a heated debate will likely be answered by how much he is just trying to save face in light of his economic follies.


On the opinion piece: I still have never heard anyone explain why the rich should have to pay proportionately more taxes. Even better when they claim its fair that they should.
Because they can and if you make others have to pay for it then your guilty conscience for not giving willingly is relieved.

All you have to do is listen to Hollywood celebrities talk about how they want their money taken away and given to these things to realize that they don't trust themselves to not be too greedy to not care unless they are forced to. If they really cared that much they would have a moderate home with a compact car and be giving everything else away. Instead they buy a huge house in every city they shoot a film in and then keep them as vacation homes while tooling around in luxury sedans.
 
I'm sad to hear that the government is directly funding stem cell research now. That's really gotta put a knife into some people.
 
From Obama's Speech Today:

Barack Obama
"Our government has forced what I believe is a false choice between sound science and moral values," Obama declared as he signed documents changing U.S. science policy and removing what some researchers have said were shackles on their work.

"It is about ensuring that scientific data is never distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda - and that we make scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology," Obama said.

I think Bill Nye would approve.
 
Except such science is not a legitimate purpose of government.

And they're stealing money from people who abhor what is being done with it.
 
HEADLINE: BROWN GETS DVD MOVIES FROM OBAMA, *HOPES* THEY'RE REGION 2.



Biden should have told Obama about the website number explaining why region 1 discs won't play in the UK. Cause, you know... Obama is all hip-hopped on technology.
 
I read on another site that U.K. law doesn't even allow Brown to keep the movies unless he pays for them. As if the movies themselves weren't already a slap in the face as a thank you.
 
From Obama's Speech Today:

"It is about ensuring that scientific data is never distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda - and that we make scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology," Obama said.
So, does this mean that when global warming and environmentla concerns come up he will let all scientists discuss it, or just the ones that agree with his political agenda?

Also, I wish he would do the same when it comes to economics, instead of just making up lies about how every economist is on board with him.

I'm sorry, but this president is just as full of BS as nearly every other politician.

Except such science is not a legitimate purpose of government.

And they're stealing money from people who abhor what is being done with it.
And then there is this too. Using tax dollars to fund embryonic stem cell research is basically forcing pro-lifers to fund what they consider to be murder.
 
I'm sorry, but this president is just as full of BS as nearly every other politician.
What do you expect from politician funded by major corporations? Thats why some of our early ones were so good, no outside influence to 'change' their ideas. If Obama doesn't follow what the little mouse tells him, you can say bye-bye to funds next election.
 
I can't get behind the stem cell funding. If it's such a promising area, let private industry fund it. There is no need to pour tax dollars into this controversial area. I would oppose making stem cell research illegal for sure, but funding it federally is silly at best.

Nice article FK. It knows me a little too well.
 
I can't get behind the stem cell funding. If it's such a promising area, let private industry fund it. There is no need to pour tax dollars into this controversial area. I would oppose making stem cell research illegal for sure, but funding it federally is silly at best.
That is where I think the division is: Bush was practicaly trying to make all stem cell research illegal (he definitely put enough stigma on it, including non-embryonic) and Obama is wanting to make it a government pet project, as if it holds the cure to everything.

If it can be setup in the middle, where it is allowed but done privately, then these multi-billion dollar companies can fund it themselves and customers can vote their moral convictions with their dollars.

Nice article FK. It knows me a little too well.
Just seeing the title made me think of your post in the Announcements thread.
 
Why doesn't everyone make as much sense as we do? Gosh!

So, anyway, today is voting day for two of my city commissioners. Basically, it's a political hell. It's non-partisan, but at the same time it is like a purification of the stupidity that is the democrat-republican stranglehold on civil discourse. I can't get any meaningful information on any candidate. Everything that's published is the retardo-condescended crap that's typical of the cliche politico. The worst part is the mudslinging, though. The straw man is everywhere. This kind of stuff makes me cringe, especially since I have my firm convictions in favor of localization as opposed to nationalization. But then I am reassured that localization will make my city suffer until it ousts this idiotic atmosphere and the operators who manipulate it.

If it's a write-in ballot, I swear I'm gonna vote for Batman.
 
If it's a write-in ballot, I swear I'm gonna vote for Batman.

Vote for God. Hey, what would be better than a guy that's omnipotent, omnipresent, impossible to bribe or buy, know by a lot of people and that can do miracles for president?
 
So, anyway, today is voting day for two of my city commissioners.... I can't get any meaningful information on any candidate. Everything that's published is the retardo-condescended crap that's typical of the cliche politico.

Its Lauderdale, right?

Hmmm. I can understand, we have a similar issue here in Grand Rapids. I only know one of the city commissioners, and its only because he is pretty active in local politics overall. The rest of them seem to otherwise be "disposable" at best. Although I think ours is allowed to be partisan. I can't remember...
 
Its Lauderdale, right?

Hmmm. I can understand, we have a similar issue here in Grand Rapids. I only know one of the city commissioners, and its only because he is pretty active in local politics overall. The rest of them seem to otherwise be "disposable" at best. Although I think ours is allowed to be partisan. I can't remember...

No, Plantation. I wanted one guy to beat this other lady, but he got crushed. The other race was close, but the incumbent lost. The lady incumbent who won is too ambitious for me. She's salivating over becoming the next mayor because her dad used to be our mayor for a long time. She's on a real ego-trip. When I saw that she was endorsed by our congressbitch Wasserman-Schultz, I knew she had to go.
 
Local elections are often worse than national ones, but often times, they get to be the most-interesting. Seems like most of the rotations around here happen because of corruption, or higher levels of aspiration that lead them elsewhere. Although, for the most part, the city stays pretty clean... Its the county commissioners and school board members that seem to be in the biggest heaps of trouble now and then.
 
HEADLINE: THANK GOD AIR FORCE ONE HAS DIRECTV



You would think the President of The United States would have something better to do than to fill out a bracket for Sports Center. You know, since The Messiah is the only one who can fix the economy, his majesty's Economic Stimulus spending bill, finding nominees for the Treasury department who know how to use Turbo Tax, the war on terror man-caused disasters, and so on.

Where are the 67 users who voted for Obama in the thread poll? How can you defend this? Do you even get it? Are you brain dead?
 
Solid, you gotta understand that people like Barack are users. They have a team around them to do everything, all the time. He's the kind of guy that would be a part of a cheaters ring in school. Now, of course, he has his cabinet doing everything while he's just the talker.
 
Did any of you guys watch his townhall meeting earlier? I turned it off after he mentioned, like he has before, that "they're rich...they can afford it" when he was talking about his 3% tax hike on people making 250k plus.

Those people already get 36% of their income taxed!? That's astonishing. My taxes plus SS plus medicare, health insurance, etc hardly add up to 30%!
 
It's too bad that everything Obama says doesn't mean a damn thing after he signs trillions of dollars of spending.
 
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