Obtaining Better B-Spec Stats ??

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How, exactly, are course points decided? Is it a combination of car/track, battle-experience/track, or something else?

I'm considering, if you answer in a very convenient way, maxing out B-Spec driver's course points, to accompany his full machine skill.

Your plan isn't going to work out the way you had hoped. The Track Battle Points (1/3 of the Track points) contribute a Course Skill of 10, so you won't be able to max out the course skill without a perfect score in everything else.

However, if you are still sitting on that hard milestone score of B-spec:7375, or have kept careful notes on the points earned from tracks since that milestone, maxing out your points should not be all that difficult. It just takes a while to complete all 232 races. Actually, you are done with 29 tracks, so only 203 to go. If you follow the template outlined by the Japanese Author you can check your progress and hunt down stray points when you reach the next milestone.

If you are up for the challenge then I'll see if I can type up some decent documentation with updated information. I need to do this anyway, but so much new information is currently available I'm not sure where to start. Also, I'm still testing some of the new concepts to make sure I understand them properly and considering methods to apply the new strategies.

And for anyone else that is interested; the Japanese Author has outlined a method of locating missing B-spec points, but I need to update all of the information for the North American version. I'm not sure if it will apply to other versions (Japanese version is definitely different). I'm collecting information on cars for this purpose, but I'm waiting for someone with some actual missing points to test if the strategy really works.
 
Comments on:
Test of Battle Skill & 1st place's bonus of Battle Skill

I'm still examining this information, but let's try a summary for now. There are several races documented on this page. Each race seems to express a specific concept for Battle points.

Update: The author has revised the web page with additional comments and information. It would be wise to consider his interpretation of the results from each test. This post has been revised in light of the new information.

All Machine Points were collected before the race. I'm not sure if the machine points were collected from Nurburgring or Suzuka West Short Course. Totals for machine points without battle points are not well documented.

Race 1: As soon as you take the lead you stop earning battle points. However, a (small) bonus for winning will be granted as you cross the finish line.

Can Battle Points be earned if you take the lead but get passed?
Can Battle Points be earned if you lead by a little (on High-Speed Ring)?

Race 2: not available

Race 3 and 4: "Running alone does not earn Battle points". In Race 3 he starts last and finishes last by a long ways and no points are earned. In Race 4 he qualified 1st and lead the whole race. Again no points are earned. Important Point: No 1st place bonus is earned for leading the whole race.

These races are documenting the basic principles of his tests. Got it.

In Race 5 Overtake is OFF. He is racing the M3 GTR Race Car in the Club "M" race so even at Pace 1 I suspect he is following closely. A note indicates that he moved into 5th temporarily. Only 5 points were earned. I suspect he was trying to establish that Overtake must be ON to earn battle points but passing one car confused the experiment a little.

Could the 5 points be a bonus awarded for passing one car?
What would happen in a race with a fast car against slow competition if the pace was set to Fast so the driver could not help but pass all of the cars even if Overtake is OFF? Perhaps only 25 points would be earned.

Race 5 is providing confusing results. An additional race was conducted under similar conditions but again a few points were earned. The Author is apparently examining the save data (with a hex editor?) and is probably able to learn specific information about the B-spec points. He describes the save data as being the same as a Race 3 where no points were collected.


Races 6 and 7 appear to be similar, but the competition is different. In Race 6 he takes the lead at 2'57. In Race 7 he takes the lead at 5'23. The driver stops earning points after taking the lead so Race 7 collects more points. However, a slightly smaller 1st Place bonus is awarded. Race 7 was only 10 points short of collecting all battle points.

5'23 would be between T7 and T8. I may need to adjust my Good Race description.

Race 8 has sector by sector details. In brief, he ran a close race but remained in 6th place for almost the entire race. Race 8 collected points on par with Race 6 which took the lead in 3 minutes.

Race 9 appears to contain surprising data. The points collected are all marked in red so this is definitely the center of attention. The race settings appear to be identical to Race 8, but the comment is "finish, 6th (much 6th)". This Race appears to have collected all of the C-2 Battle points.

I got this all wrong. In Race 9 the author is actively directing the race pace to assure that the driver is always trying to pass the 5th place car. That explains why so many points were collected. In recent experiments we have been relying on pre-defined settings to control the flow of the race and conduct objective experiments where conditions and results can be repeated and compared. I forgot that under normal conditions I can control a race with high precision by making slight adjustments to the pace if the car choice and lineup are appropriate. I suspect Race 9 would be considered an extremely close battle for 6th place, as compared to a very close battle for 6th place in Race 8.

Much 6th? Does this mean that the driver race behind the other cars by a short or medium distance? In Race 8 the car was alway very close to the competition. Never mind. Revised to read "Keep 6th" and describes his active control of the pace. I suspect the original intent was "close 6th" - close enough that the driver is always trying to pass the other car. However, "keep 6th" implies an effort was made to maintain this position and is probably a better description.

Collecting all battle points in a 2 lap race on Nurburgring is not terribly difficult. Any race with a good car that has good battles for 1 lap should work. However, it is surprising that all Battle points were collected for "much 6th" considering how close the battles must have been for 6th place in Race 8.


Why did Race 9 collect more points than Race 8? Perhaps the driver was close enough to trigger the collection of Battle Points. The settings were the same in Race 8. Maybe he followed by 100m to 200m instead of 10m to 50m. Trailing by this distance would allow the driver to remain on the good driving line. He would take turns more smoothly. There would be less use of the accelerator and brakes without other cars right in front. These factors contribute to increased Machine Skill. Perhaps Battle Points are collected in a similar manner.

Race 8 Detail: This chart was a bit confusing at first. It's new information so I was not familiar with the format. The information is similar to the Detail of the Machine Skill test, but also includes times and splits for other cars.

Distance with 5th: This did not translate well. It describes the current Gap, or Distance behind 5th.

The points collected by each sector appears to be similar to the Machine Skill points. The data from early sectors is inconsistent and probably depends on race conditions. By the time the driver reaches T7 there appears to be a correlation between sectors that earn more points. T8 and T10 tend to build Machine Skill and Battle Skill faster than neighboring sectors.

If Battle Points are collect in a manner that is similar to Machine Points, then measures tested to increase the collection of Machine Points should also apply to Battle Points. For example; unique motion, hard tires, slow pace, a car that handles well, smooth turns on the preferred driving line, and infrequent use of the brakes and accelerator.
 
Comments on Battle Point Test Race 5-1 and 5-2.

4 or 5 points are confusing the data.
Perhaps these are "Track Battle Points" of the type B-spec:1000-0-10-30, 4 and 9/29th per track * 58 tracks * 4 categories.
The rules might be different than for the collection of "Floating Battle Points" of the type B-spec: 2333 and 24/29th-0-0-70.

Suggested Test: (I don't have access on a save that has Floating Points)
Suzuka Circuit West Course
Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie Hemi Quad Cab '04
Maybe add R3 and NA3 to assure passing or 1st place.
Difficulty -10, Pace 4, Overtake OFF

The Machine Skill Test does not finish the collection for C-2 (585-11-7-0)
In the case of Battle Skill Test Subcategory C-2; B-spec: 663-12-9-0
Is 663 from Suzuka West Short Course of "Machine Points" of type B-spec: 4666 and 5/29-100-70-0?
Or is 655+8, or 654+9 from Nurburgring? (must be Nurburgring or Course Points would be collected)
My guess is Nurburgring, but is it 655 or 654 for Machine Points without "Course Points" of type B-spec: 2000-0-20-0; 8 and 18/29 per track?

-Short version
Track Battle Points: T-Battle
Floating Battle Points: F-Battle

-Grouping
Floating: Machine and F-Battle (7000)
Track: Course and T-Battle (3000)

These terms have long been adopted on this site. I will be happy to offer translations to any terms adopted by the Japanese Author.
 
Test of Track Battle Points and Overtake OFF

B-spec: 9236/100/92/92
Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie Hemi Quad Cab '04
Default +R4 +NA3

Step 1: Collect Category A Course Points from
Twin Ring Motegi - Road Course, 2 Laps practice, Pace 1
B-spec: 9245/100/92/92

Step 2: Family Cup Race with Overtake OFF at
Twin Ring Motegi - Road Course, Difficulty -10, Pace 4
Pass while pushing cars around the corners
Take the lead in the middle of the 2nd lap.
B-spec 9250/100/92/92
(9250 is a hard milestone - no points are missing)

Results:

Track Battle Points can be collected with Overtake OFF
This test explains the extra points earned in Battle Skill Test Races 5-1 and 5-2
The author's hypothesis that Overtake must be ON to earn F-Battle points is supported by all data
 
I just bought a program that will copy my game saves to a USB device. Does anyone have information on the location and format of B-spec information in the game save data?
 
Try asking at the gtplanet Hybrids & Gamesharks at https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13. I really haven't done much investigation into manipulating the saves. I know they are encrypted in some form. I've not kept up with what is and isn't possible in terms of interpreting and/or changing game saves.

Perhaps first read or peruse the posted [size=+1]GT4[/size] hybridding thread. You know the routine. ;)
 
Okay, thanks Sport. That's cleared up a bit of confusion in a hurry. There are hints on the recent Battle Skill test that the JP author was learning something about B-spec from save data, but perhaps this is a comparison of same or different. It doesn't look likely that I can simply map the B-spec points. I still have hopes of defining the B-spec unit - some questions I can't let go of. However, it looks like a good clean beginning save with a maxed out B-spec driver is something people would download. At least now I've got a way to backup my saves. I didn't have enough memory cards to run all these tests.

Sometimes I get results that remind me that the Machine points are not well defined. I keep getting inconsistent results that suggests there are different types of Machine points and they have different influences on skills. Some machine points seem to have very low skill value. It's been a long time since I've considered this anomaly; not since before I finished my first 10000 point collection. It hasn't been until recently that the tool have been available to answer these questions.
 
New information is available at the web site of the Japanese Author.

raising B-spec Skill 4666 only Suzuka Circuit West Course

The Japanese Author was kind enough to answer a persistent question: How many Machine Points only can be collected in each subclass? By collecting the points on Suzuka West the author was about to avoid collecting any Course type Track points. This information will be very useful when confirming various machine point collections.

The new page is a complement to:

raising B-spec Skill 7000 only Suzuka Circuit West Course

Note that Photo Mode can be used to collect floating points from rally tracks or other courses without Track points. Suzuka Circuit West Course has been defined as "the course without Track points" because it is unique; it allows Family Cup races so Floating Battle points can be collected.

Notes on Adding Points: The author notes that the points collected from each track are probably not integers. Always expect fractions to be included with any number that is not a hard milestone score. But don't expect the fractions to resolve using simple math. Sometimes the prediction can be off by 2 points due to how the game retains and resolves the B-spec fractions into points.

Notes on Battle Skill Test: The Battle Skill Test page has been revised. The author's interpretation of the test results have been removed because of translation difficulties.

I am disappointed the interpretation of results has been removed. I hope my early summary of the Battle Skill Test page did not contribute to this decision. I am very grateful for the effort the author has made to translate this work into English. The translations have been far superior to translations of the Japanese web pages made by software translators. Also, the Japanese web pages for B-spec have not been updated with recent information so there is nothing for the software to translate. Perhaps a dual interpretation with English and Japanese side by side would allow the readers the greatest chance for understanding.
 
Ah, useful information on making the transfers. Thanks. I suppose I'd better actually test one of my backup saves just to make sure it works, but I think I've got the basics worked out. GT4 didn't make a fuss about compressing and copying the way some other games did.

My main problem now is that although I bought this program to backup my GT4 saves so I wouldn't need to keep restarting and repeating races for cash (and now with the new B-spec Category tests I need the licenses as well), I discovered how to create highly customized saves for San Andreas on PS2, so I've been busy coding and testing the features and converting the saves. So far it's been working out very well, but I want to get back to the B-spec testing. A lot of progress was being made in a hurry.

And from why I gathered from the Hybrid thread is that the save file is encrypted so there isn't much hope of figuring things out simply by poking around with a hex editor. I suppose that's why there aren't any garage editors available for GT4.
 
Here are a few Super Speedway tests that I posted on another site. If the same time and position is achieved it should confirm that all points are collected on this track for that class of car.

Prepare a new car (don't change the oil) save, and reset. The tests rely on the restart lineups. Reset after each test so you have the car in the original condition in case additional tests are necessary.

Run the Family Cup with difficulty 0. Turn on Overtake, leave the pace at 3, and let the simulator run the race.


Class A - Opel Corsa Comfort 1.4 '01, 90HP, 11.145 PWR (default)

Restart Lineup:
Suzuki ALTO LAPIN Turbo '02
Daihatsu STORIA CX 2WD '98
Nissan SKYLINE 1500Deluxe (S50D-1) '63
Suzuki MR Wagon Sport '04
Daihatsu MOVE SR-XX 2WD '97
Opel Corsa Comfort 1.4 '01
1st Place, 2'02.322


Class C - Ford GT '05, 558HP, 2.600 PWR, add R3 tires

Restart Lineup:
Saleen S7 '02
Audi Le Mans quattro '03
Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3 '02
Mercedes SLR McLaren '03
VW W12 Nardo Concept '01
Ford GT '05
2nd Place, 1'23.930


Class D - TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00, 809HP, 1.260 PWR, add R3 tires

Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car '02
Mercedes SLR McLaren '03
VW W12 Nardo Concept '01
Tommy kaira ZZII '00
Cadillac CIEN '02
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00
1st Place, 1'20.676

I tried to keep the cost of these cars to a minimum but still provide a car that the B-spec driver likes to drive. There are a lot cheaper Class A cars, but the B-driver loves the Opels. The HPA Motorsports is a lot cheaper than the Ford GT, but he doesn't perform well with the HPA.

Class B

This setup is a bit more elaborate. I took this race from my scripted collection topic. I am much more confident that this race definitely confirms all points are collected.

Go to USA, Chrysler, New Cars.
Buy and enter a Chrysler Crossfire '04 for 35670 credits.

Change the Oil, -50

Tune Shop, B-1 Tuning for Crossfire
* NA Tuning: Stage 2 (NA2), -12000
* Clutch: Twin Plate (Twin Clutch), -2600
* Flywheel: Sport (Sport Fly), -430
* Limited-slip:Full Customized (Full Slip), -6300
* =289 HP, 4.711 PWR, S2 Tires, (Downforce 0)

Change the Full Slip settings to:
* Initial Torque = 10
* Limited-slip Acceleration = 40
* Limited-slip Deceleration = 20

Go to USA, Chrysler, One-make Races. Crossfire Trophy
Enter Motegi Super Speedway
Set the pace to Cruise, Turn on Overtake (ASAP)
Let the simulator run the race. Don't touch a thing.

You'll either collect your missing point, or you'll get a race time of 2'24.554 with a MOV of 0.070.
 
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