Official alignment values thread

[Greyout]

I can't stress this enough. You people have your OUT and IN crossed. OUT is NEGATIVE. NOT POSITIVE. Here, a DIRECT quote from Duke in the Pocket Guide at the top of this forum:



I'm really surprised Duke didnt catch this.

it was stated by someone who has the Japan version that it is labeled differently over there, and it actually says "IN/OUT", with toe out being a positive number

he also PM'ed me and told me that negative weight location is front (in reference to ballast) and positive weight location is rear

 

[d3p0]

I _wish_ you could adjust caster along with a dozen other suspension settings including individual left/right adjustment. I also wish that cars had some range of alignment adjustment stock. Finally, I wish there was some accuracy between different suspension types i.e: fixed axle cars should not be able to adjust camber or toe or even thrust angle maybe

 

[Greyout]

WTF! can you really add camber to a solid axle car?!

 

[KSaiyu]

WTF! can you really add camber to a solid axle car?!

No you can't add camber or toe adjustments to the driven wheels in a live axle car.

 

[Greyout]

No you can't add camber or toe adjustments to the driven wheels in a live axle car.

I mean in the game, not real life...

 

[ledhed]

Well since I know without a doubt that the Mustang Shelby GT350 has a LIVE rear axle..and you can adjust both camber and toe ...I would say ergo sum that YOU CAN ADJUST THE TOE AND CAMBER ON A LIVE AXLE IN THIS GAME..so ummmm whats your point ?

 

[Greyout]

Well since I know without a doubt that the Mustang Shelby GT350 has a LIVE rear axle..and you can adjust both camber and toe ...I would say ergo sum that YOU CAN ADJUST THE TOE AND CAMBER ON A LIVE AXLE IN THIS GAME..so ummmm whats your point ?

my point is that its retarded to be able to do so

 

[ledhed]

Well so is being able to drive at 230 mph into a wall and then keep going with no damage.

 

[arnold]

Is the BMW M3 a good overall car?

 

[Greyout]

Is the BMW M3 a good overall car?

is this relevant to anything?

 

[Pontiac Le Mans]

I agree but KSaiyu was pretty sure it was the other way around....said it was clear in the Japanese version

I found in another thread here a possible explanation for the difference in interpretation of positive and negative values.

A guy who workes at Renault (Scaff) said that they had problems when they took over Nissan because in Japan the toe-values where the opposite: positive = negative and vice-versa.

the thread is here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57013&page=2&pp=20

My personal GT3 experience: a negative (-0,5 or -1,0) GT3 toe-value in the front gives better turning whatever it may be: toe-in or toe-out.

 

[SpeedyGonzalez]

This sucks all! I have seen equal amounts of arguments ,some valid and some not, describing what exactly is toe out and toe in IN GT4! Now some of the administrators here keep citing references to GT3, but that game and its suspension settings are different from GT4. I think everyone here knows what the actualities and values are in real life and that the question at hand is "did polyphony switch the values". So can one of u administrators get on the horn with sony, one of u has got to have some connection to have this question answered. Until we do, no one can acurately say they can feel a difference if ne, until they know what kind of toe theyre adding.

 

[Greyout]

I wrote an email to sony but I am sure I won't hear anything back other then a canned BS call center response.

I wonder if the strategy guide would be helpful? (LOL it probably just says "ADD SOME TOE OUT!")

 

[Duke]

I don't have any cars with adjustable suspension, but as soon as I do, I'll examine the diagrams and report back. It was clear enough to read in GT3.

And no, nobody on staff has any contact with Sony or PD.

 

[Acid X]

There are no diagrams in game to show the effect of toe in or out. And i dont think you can tell which way the wheels are pointing from a photo, because the adjustments seem so miniscule.

I'm pretty sure here in the NTSC version, it's the same as in GT3, where in = positive and out = negative, because i've noticed a little improvement in speed and stability with a positive value up front.

Though i suppose alot of testing needs to be done to tell for sure.

 

[KSaiyu]

Can you tell by setting in the NTSC version -4 values of toe and taking the car on photo mode and seeing the difference? Make sure it's in the default position and try - I'll check if this works on the Japanese version.

 

[Acid X]

I would, but it's pretty late right now. I'll try to get you a response tomorrow.. Or maybe someone else with NTSC can try.

 

[neurokinetik]

I _wish_ you could adjust caster along with a dozen other suspension settings including individual left/right adjustment. I also wish that cars had some range of alignment adjustment stock. Finally, I wish there was some accuracy between different suspension types i.e: fixed axle cars should not be able to adjust camber or toe or even thrust angle maybe

Agreed. A totally stock Miata for example, has adustments for caster, camber (front and rear) and toe (front and rear). It was probably too much bother for PD to implement that granular level of suspension tuning into the game, however.

Oh, and I've heard that some of the guys with solid rear axles have been known to have the axle housings bent to obtain camber or toe. Obviously, this is not exactly good for the differential, but it can be done to a limited extent.

 

[iknight0]

I think a positive number for the rear toe angle means toe in for the rear wheels (or / \). I did a test with the Ford GT on the Nurburgring, setting the rear toe angle to both extremes (-4 and +4). I chose the Ford GT because I find it very unstable at high speeds on straightaways. With a -4 for the rear toe angle, the car was very hard to keep on the road. A slight tap on the brake would send it into a spin. With a +4, the car was much more stable, and I was able to improve my previous lap time by 16 seconds. I'm not sure what a positive or negative number means for the front wheels.

 

[Greyout]

I agree with the above

My Audi S4 understeers more with a positive toe rear setting. This goes away with a negative rear setting.

 

[Pontiac Le Mans]

There are no diagrams in game to show the effect of toe in or out. And i dont think you can tell which way the wheels are pointing from a photo, because the adjustments seem so miniscule.

I'm pretty sure here in the NTSC version, it's the same as in GT3, where in = positive and out = negative, because i've noticed a little improvement in speed and stability with a positive value up front.

Though i suppose alot of testing needs to be done to tell for sure.

Hi Acid X, I think you're right. What you observed corresponds to what I found on the Advanced-racing website: www.advancedracing.com/chassissetup.php

"The toe setting on a particular car becomes a tradeoff between the straight-line stability afforded by toe-in an the quick steering response promoted by toe-out"

I had some discussions on another "toe-topic" here, where I erroneously recommended toe-in for better steering, believing (following Gasmans guide) that negative GT4-values concern toe-in. But my initial feeling that a negative front-value gives better cornering, (and thus a positive value more stability) is confirmed by your observation.

CONCLUSION: Front settings:

- TOE-IN: positive GT-values: means more stability
- TOE-OUT: negative GT-values: means better cornering

 

[BiZKiD]

hi guys, just a quick thought - in gt3 the f1 car's rear toe was a negative value - i.e. moved to the left of the settings bar... i always followed this when setting up other cars and i presume it was toe in... seemed to work for me - great for drifting.

my first post yay!

 

[Iron_Weasel]

CONCLUSION: Front settings:

- TOE-IN: positive GT-values: means more stability
- TOE-OUT: negative GT-values: means better cornering

So would the opposite be true when setting the rear?
Toe In = Negative GT value.
Toe Out = Positive GT value?

 

[flanderz]

People, people....your making this toe in/out a huge discussion for naught. This is how it is based in reality:
Rear wheel drive high power cars require additional toe IN due to the fact that at higher speeds there is tendency for the front wheels to straighten themselves out, or aim more or less dead on straight ahead. FF cars require a more neutral setting because they are both the steering wheels and drive wheels.
Now, for cornering, camber is a bigger factor than toe. Fast cornering requires NEGATIVE camber, about 2-4 degrees (real world based). Negative camber simply means that the TOP of the tire leans IN farther than the bottom, therefore when cornering there is the tendency for the tire to straighten up, planting more surface area of the tread onto the tarmac, and ultimately giving better grip. Use this info to adjust your GT4 cars and you'll be miles ahead in the game. A lot of the time I don't even change the settings for toe or camber, but rather ride hight, spring rate, and stabilizers to prevent body roll in corners.
Oh, btw, I'm a 3 yr. college grad of auto diagnostics and a 20 yr. vet in the trade, so yes, I am basing the info on experience. Good luck and I hope this info helps.

 

[Pontiac Le Mans]

So would the opposite be true when setting the rear?
Toe In = Negative GT value.
Toe Out = Positive GT value?

Normally not: in / out has to be seen in the driving direction, so it is the same in the front as in the rear.

 

[MadDogDrifter]

I kinda glanced through the first 2 pages, my settings are usually set at negative, my Spec C is at -4/-3 is that even good for an AWD???

 

[MartyU]

It does make it clear in the Japanese version:

Under toe it says in brackets (IN<->OUT), and the slider when moved towards IN is negative, while when it's moved OUT is positive, so from -4 to 4.

Then the US version is different, assuming that's what I have. NO reverence to In vs Out in the 'Toe Angle' setting. Just -4 to 4. None in the scrolling text either.

Without these adjustsments having much preceptable effect, I'm still wondering what a - or + is supposed to mean for toe-in or toe-out.

Dumb. Didn't PD have any beta testers?

 

[mksetzer]

People, people....your making this toe in/out a huge discussion for naught. This is how it is based in reality:
Rear wheel drive high power cars require additional toe IN due to the fact that at higher speeds there is tendency for the front wheels to straighten themselves out, or aim more or less dead on straight ahead. FF cars require a more neutral setting because they are both the steering wheels and drive wheels.
Now, for cornering, camber is a bigger factor than toe. Fast cornering requires NEGATIVE camber, about 2-4 degrees (real world based). Negative camber simply means that the TOP of the tire leans IN farther than the bottom, therefore when cornering there is the tendency for the tire to straighten up, planting more surface area of the tread onto the tarmac, and ultimately giving better grip. Use this info to adjust your GT4 cars and you'll be miles ahead in the game. A lot of the time I don't even change the settings for toe or camber, but rather ride hight, spring rate, and stabilizers to prevent body roll in corners.
Oh, btw, I'm a 3 yr. college grad of auto diagnostics and a 20 yr. vet in the trade, so yes, I am basing the info on experience. Good luck and I hope this info helps.

Haha, oh man...when I read the first sentence of your post I thought you were the one who was going to give us all the answer.

The original post wasn't asking what to do to make our cars more stable or what to do to make our cars corner better. Basically this thread is trying to figure out (most likely for the North American version) which side of the sliding bar is TOE-IN and which side is TOE-OUT. According to all the posts, everything is so scrambled! Half are saying toe-in and toe-out are positive and negative, respectively and the other half is saying toe-in and toe-out are negative and positive, respectively. Once we figure out which one is which we'll be one step closer to knowing how to mess around w/ these settings in GT4.

 

[Duke]

I ran the R246 Reverse race in the Japanese Hall Japan Championship last night, using my RX-7 RS-R tuned to about 425 hp. With the unadjusted race suspension, it was unstable on the high-speed straights, particularly through the slight offset in the front straight, with the following slight dip.

I added 1 notch POSITIVE toe to the rear, which helped stabilize it at high speed. This supports my theory that in the North American NTSC game, toe values reflect the NA/Euro convention that POSITIVE toe is TOE IN at both front and rear.

 

[Balfa]

I added 1 notch POSITIVE toe to the rear, which helped stabilize it at high speed. This supports my theory that in the North American NTSC game, toe values reflect the NA/Euro convention that POSITIVE toe is TOE IN at both front and rear.

I totally agree. I just played with the rear toe settings in my Daihatsu Mira. The following is the final truth:

Toe IN (stability) is POSITIVE
Toe OUT (response) is NEGATIVE

There is absolutely no doubt. Close thread.