Official Shift 2 Physics General Discussion Thread

[///M-Spec]

This is the official thread for general discussion on Shift 2 Unleashed physics.

When posting in this thread, please try to remember S2U is available on three different platforms and played on different control devices. Player experiences, especially among PC users, can vary widely.

Other than that, keep it clean and try to post something... useful


M

 

[mad_doc_1982]

Nevermind the flamers. Nevermind if either GT5, FM3 (never played it) was realistic. Facts are:

- GT5 is quite realistic until you put racing tires at your car
- I never played a console-based racing sim that could match a PC-only title like GTR or GT Legends.
- Driving at a computer can NEVER match the real deal which might be driving a real car, let it be a race car or not.

Last one leads to my conclusion. Which is:

Whether it might being 'realistic' or not: you are playing a GAME. Not everything comes down to be realistic. And never every aspect WILL be. At games the point comes down to feel RIGHT, might it be realistic or not. Lets be honest: GT feels to be more right then S2U. But nevertheless: Shift is fun. Otherwise I wouldn't play it. Or even put down my two cents here.

Had to edit cause the original thread had been closed before I could answer to the question if S2U was realistic or not.

 

[tyl0r_r]

Shift is fun. Otherwise I wouldn't play it. Or even put down my two cents here.

Neither of your two cents seemed to have anything to do with Shift 2 physics, unfortunately.
---
As far as physics though: in Shift 2 one of the more interesting/annoying/really cool (not sure which) things is that if you take a corner with too much speed and get too sideways you can flip the car completely. Usually this ends the race because Shift 2 actually has damage modelling.

I've never seen anything like this in GT and I don't think I've had it happen in many games at all.

Many seem to believe that in GT cars are far too difficult to unsettle/flip. But when you go over a jump in Shift, you best pay a lot of attention to the landing if you want to maintain control - similar to taking a corner recklessly, you could destroy your whole car.

If GT makes it unrealistically tough to unsettle your car, do you think Shift 2 makes getting unsettled too easy? Or have they got it about right in this respect?

 

[Pakt Sardine]

Yay!!!

I really don't care if it's realistic or not. It's fun. The physics are extremely quirky. I love a racing game with a sense of humor.

 

[FuriousDemon]

The problem with Shift 2's physics is that even when I turn on Elite mode and turn off all the assists it still feels like I have traction control on. Seems like it's a lot more forgiving than other games that are generally considered "sim"-racing. It's good enough, but could be a bit better. However, for NFS series it's definitely the closest it's ever gotten to a "sim".

 

[RomKnight]

I really feel I know the Ford Focus in the game (and the Escort). Although I had less powered versions in real life (I still drive the Focus regularly) the cars do feel like the real ones.

Something must be right with the physics engine at least regarding this cars.

Still, its just a game and I miss a cool sound system in the cars

 

[HeadsoupBob]

I think that unfortunately games like GT, Forza, GTR Evo etc have conditioned us to think that all cars should handle like they've been built for the track out of the showroom. With road cars, that is just not the case. Look at the celebrity laps in top gear's reasonably priced car, how hard it is for most of the people to put down a really fast and clean lap and keep the car balanced, especially with any consistency.

Besides the input lag on consoles and difficulty with getting FFB right, Shift 2 has shown that you really need to tune cars a bit to get them to perform well on a track, as most people who've gone into the tuning in the game have found, they can get the cars to perform very well, matching the other 'sims' in characteristic.
It's just that by default cars aren't set up to run on the limits, but still be driveable on bumpy roads with understeer for safety, and causing 'floatyness.'

I personally think the tyres are a little bit too forgiving still, and it's very hard to force wheelspin on the lower cars, but otherwise Shift 2's handling model feels very advanced and you really do feel like the car is 'at it's limits' when pushing hard.

 

[jamiebird]

@RomKnight: I also owned a Mk5 Escort and agree that its feels right.

@HeadsoupBob: I agree - take any untuned stock road car on stock tyres, drive at 70mph+ around a tight race track bend and see what happens! And if we remember what Shifts heritage is then the fact that you need to tune your car makes sense - a lot of Need for Speed titles have been about street car culture, which is all about taking stock cars and tuning them to within an inch of their lives.

 

[Cyber_stig_77]

S2U has really good physics just waiting to be "unleashed" but if you play the game straight out of the box it is a bit floaty and arcade like, but and i mean BUT if you spend a bit of time setting up the car and controller/wheel the physics become quite rewarding.
I use the steering sensitivity to get the steering wheel onscreen to match the steering wheel in my hands at about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn in other words i want the onscreen wheel to be in the same position to my "real" wheel as much as possible. Then use the steering lock setting to adjust the amount of steering input to make the car pitch in the corner , usually at the point my arms cross over or just before. The other thing is tyre pressure ,50 psi is way to high ,it makes the car feel like you are driving on marbles .I have found 32-40 psi to give much more control and stability, it even makes the steering heavier . Go and put 50 psi into your own car and take it for a blast and it will feel very light and floaty as well.
So i think the physics are there you just have to find them.

 

[JackC8]

Some aspect of the physics are quite realistic - running over curbs or other bumps unsettles the car and it takes a bit for the suspension to come under control again. Unlike other games where you can do a 300 foot jump and the car is instantaneously under perfect control upon landing. That adds a whole 'nother level of realistic challenge to the driving which other games simply don't have. Hitting a wall will usually cause you to spin out or crash horribly, unlike other games where it just gently guides you back on track. Going off track is a hair raising experience, unlike other game where the only difference between on track and off is that you can go a little faster on the black part.

Some aspects bother me. The higher powered cars like to get fishtailing on the straights (despite my best efforts at tuning them), and it can often be a major pain to get them back under control. I don't know if that's realistic or not, but it really gets tiresome after a while. The force feedback with a wheel doesn't give you much feel for how much traction you have - or don't have - in the corners, which is really the primary purpose for having force feedback. I've gotten used to it by now, but there are still times when better force feedback would have saved me from a spinout. And the cars are just a bit too drifty in the corners. Again, I don't know if that's realistic or not, but having the option to just toss the car sideways and pass AI cars which are actually trying to drive around the corners feels kind of cheap.

So it's got its good points and its bad; its not like other games are better or worse, just different. The stuff they got right right in this games makes it far, FAR more challenging than other games. The stuff they got wrong (in my opinion) makes it frustrating at times.

 

[Ibonibo]

Well on my case PC with fanatec wheel,
Already installed the Rubber mod (takes input lag out),
but still the game is somewhat unplayable for me with 900° steering.
With 450° it's ok.
still not perfect.
I put it on hold till the GTR/GT- physics mod comes out.

 

[Wdave]

Shift 2, in all respects, makes you weary of a cars limits and makes you respect them.
Thats personally what I find so fun about it.

 

[vrooom]

In my opinion Shift 2 (in elite mode) has by far the most realistic handling model in any console game. Also I think it could challenge (and even surpass) many of the PC racing-game-sims on the physics department.

Shift 2 forces you to respect your car, the opponent cars and the track. You can't push your car too hard, crash on other cars mindlessly, pass them without planning your moves or expect to be able to hit curbs at full speed or slide off track and not get punished. So in this way I think Shift 2 is providing the best representation of track racing than any other console game (even though it lacks weather, pit stops, flags and qualifying).

In a more technical note I find the handling model of Shift 2 impressive cause I get the feeling that there isn't some kind of 'magical' force that pushes the car forward or helps me to steer and keep the car under control. In Shift 2 the car accelerates, steers, spins, rolls and crashes due to the net result of the different forces that are applied to the car, suspensions and tires. I think that's a great technical achievement!

I will admit that there are some flaws in Shift 2. For once it's quite difficult to find the correct wheel settings. Also some cars seem to have either too slow or too fast steering. Thankfully the live tuning feature is a great way to 'fix' some cars that don't seem to handle so well 'out of the box'. But once you tune your wheel and cars correctly you will have a great time in Shift 2. 👍

Frankly, I prefer to focus on what a game does well and not nitpick every tiny detail and omission. I believe when the core game is great you can forgive the various small flaws as long as they don't detract from the main game. I am having a great time with Shift 2 and I am loving it so far. It's a very challenging and fun game with incredible depth! If I ever get a PC fast enough to run Shift 2 I will get a second copy - that's how much I like it!

 

[Nuck81]

The force feedback with a wheel doesn't give you much feel for how much traction you have - or don't have - in the corners, which is really the primary purpose for having force feedback. I've gotten used to it by now, but there are still times when better force feedback would have saved me from a spinout.

Totally disagree with this. The closer the car gets to the edge of grip, the harder it becomes to turn, until you finally break past the edge and wheel goes limp, until you regain your grip, and then bam, the Wheel is pushing you again.

I love it

 

[deftonesmx17]

In my opinion Shift 2 (in elite mode) has by far the most realistic handling model in any console game. Also I think it could challenge (and even surpass) many of the PC racing-game-sims on the physics department.

Shift 2 forces you to respect your car, the opponent cars and the track. You can't push your car too hard, crash on other cars mindlessly, pass them without planning your moves or expect to be able to hit curbs at full speed or slide off track and not get punished. So in this way I think Shift 2 is providing the best representation of track racing than any other console game (even though it lacks weather, pit stops, flags and qualifying).

In a more technical note I find the handling model of Shift 2 impressive cause I get the feeling that there isn't some kind of 'magical' force that pushes the car forward or helps me to steer and keep the car under control. In Shift 2 the car accelerates, steers, spins, rolls and crashes due to the net result of the different forces that are applied to the car, suspensions and tires. I think that's a great technical achievement!

Fully agree 👍

 

[FLIGHT50]

In comparison to GT5, I too have to agree that Shift 2 is a bit more realistic. You have to respect the car, the track, and the opponents, just as in real life. Not doing so will have its consequences. You will loss grip in corners if the car is pushed to its limits. The cars should not stick to the road.

I have said this before some where else, but if you take the three tire compounds in Shift and take those to GT5 on an equal leveled car, see how well you can take corners then. If anything, GT would be the arcade racer IMO. It drives well because it sticks to the road which is why its harder to flip them. My arms get sore racing in S2U on my G27 after 1-2 hours. In GT5 not even remotely sore after several hours. FFB is heavier in GT5 and feels better but hey we can't have everything that another game has. Besides, the G27 is fully supported in S2U, can't say that about GT5. Its up to the game developer to support the hardware, not the other way around.

 

[James1436]

Well, I own Rfactor and Forza 3 before you start reading, everything I am writing is just a opinion . The physics are good, not great, not amazing or bad. 4 wheel drive cars tend to slide to often, the rwd cars slide in occasions but not as much as the awd cars. The cars I have driven in Shift 2 do not have natural oversteer/understeer. You have to really nail the car while turning to actually get oversteer. If a person brakes late and misses the apex, there isn't enough understeer. You can easily go back into the bestline as if nothing happened, but in real life you would go off the track.

There seems to be no wheelspin in S2U. I drove the C6r with full throttle during corners and did not sense the back coming out. Shift 2 is much fun, if i want to test how a car drives I will go to Forza 3/Rfactor, if I want to have a blast its Shift 2.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

In comparison to GT5, I too have to agree that Shift 2 is a bit more realistic. You have to respect the car, the track, and the opponents, just as in real life. Not doing so will have its consequences. You will loss grip in corners if the car is pushed to its limits. The cars should not stick to the road.

Lol this is rubbish
the cars stick like glue on s2u
thats why its so easy to flip them
I barely have to break before turns all I do is let off gas

Not to mention every single turn on straights the rear end slides out even at low speeds its like burnout paradise

Its impossible to make the car drive smooth even at low speeds

 

[vrooom]

Lol this is rubbish
the cars stick like glue on s2u
thats why its so easy to flip them
I barely have to break before turns all I do is let off gas

Not to mention every single turn on straights the rear end slides out even at low speeds its like burnout paradise

Its impossible to make the car drive smooth even at low speeds

Now I am confused...
How can the cars "stick like glue" and at the same time "the rear end slides out even at low speeds"? Aren't these two behaviors mutually exclusive?

 

[jonboy1066]

In my opinion Shift 2 (in elite mode) has by far the most realistic handling model in any console game. Also I think it could challenge (and even surpass) many of the PC racing-game-sims on the physics department.

Shift 2 forces you to respect your car, the opponent cars and the track. You can't push your car too hard, crash on other cars mindlessly, pass them without planning your moves or expect to be able to hit curbs at full speed or slide off track and not get punished. So in this way I think Shift 2 is providing the best representation of track racing than any other console game (even though it lacks weather, pit stops, flags and qualifying).

In a more technical note I find the handling model of Shift 2 impressive cause I get the feeling that there isn't some kind of 'magical' force that pushes the car forward or helps me to steer and keep the car under control. In Shift 2 the car accelerates, steers, spins, rolls and crashes due to the net result of the different forces that are applied to the car, suspensions and tires. I think that's a great technical achievement!

I will admit that there are some flaws in Shift 2. For once it's quite difficult to find the correct wheel settings. Also some cars seem to have either too slow or too fast steering. Thankfully the live tuning feature is a great way to 'fix' some cars that don't seem to handle so well 'out of the box'. But once you tune your wheel and cars correctly you will have a great time in Shift 2. 👍

Frankly, I prefer to focus on what a game does well and not nitpick every tiny detail and omission. I believe when the core game is great you can forgive the various small flaws as long as they don't detract from the main game. I am having a great time with Shift 2 and I am loving it so far. It's a very challenging and fun game with incredible depth! If I ever get a PC fast enough to run Shift 2 I will get a second copy - that's how much I like it!

I totally agree, Shift 2 has rekindled the joy that I used to get from racing before GT5 came along and turned it into a chore.

Tonight I had a league race on GT5, this is the first time I've played GT5 since Shifts release, and the Physics felt....awful, then it dawned on me. GT5's physics aren't realistic at all! How can they be when you can do that big jump on the Cape ring flat out with no consequence? How can they be realistic when most drivers need to use ABS to prevent their brake pedals acting like switches.

Shift2 feels solid and firm and predictable, in comparison GT5 is about as much like a simulator as going to the local ice rink and sliding around wearing oil coated slippers while claiming you are simulating an Ice Dance.....you're having fun and sliding about, thinking you're doing it for real but your not anmd no matter how many times you tell you world you're doing it for real, you're still looking silly.

With Shift2 the physics, graphics, AI, Quality Of tracks, Bumps, Sounds and intensity all come together to give THE most realistic racing experience I have ever felt on any console and I keep wanting to go back for more.

I was disappointed in GT5 pretty much from the getgo, but now Shift2 has shown me what it could have been....and it could have been so much better...I'm done...GT5 is the last installment I will buy, I've bought and played to death 9 out of the 10 GT games that have been out over the last 12-13 years.....but no more!

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Now I am confused...
How can the cars "stick like glue" and at the same time "the rear end slides out even at low speeds"? Aren't these two behaviors mutually exclusive?

I ask the same thing lol
It sticks around corners You can hit corners a bit faster then you should be able to ( which is fine )
on straights if you turn the wheel even a little the rear end slides out a bit so its hard to keep a straight smooth line even when going slow

after playing a bit more i see that when you try to turn a little the wheel turns completely or more then what your actually trying to input
So that gives a feeling that your not in full control of the car especially when trying to straighten the car coming out a corner

 

[vrooom]

I ask the same thing lol
It sticks around corners You can hit corners faster then you should be able to
on straights if you turn the wheel even a little the rear end slides out a bit so its hard to keep a straight smooth line even when going slow

after playing a bit more i see that when you try to turn a little the wheel turns completely or more then what your actually trying to input

Either you haven't enabled elite mode or haven't tweaked your wheel settings and tuned your car. But what you said about the car sticking like glue and at the same time sliding all over the place leads me to believe that you are making things up or that you didn't spend enough time to tweak you wheel settings which is (unfortunately) necessary to enjoy Shift 2.

You can either complain the car is too grippy or that the car is sliding a lot/is too unstable.
You can't complain for both things at the same time!

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Either you haven't enabled elite mode or haven't tweaked your wheel settings and tuned your car. But what you said about the car sticking like glue and at the same time sliding all over the place leads me to believe that you are making things up or that you didn't spend enough time to tweak you wheel settings which is (unfortunately) necessary to enjoy Shift 2.

You can either complain the car is too grippy or that the car is sliding a lot/is too unstable.
You can't complain for both things at the same time!

All settings are off
I use the DS3 settings from here
I did atleast 30 mins of suspension tuning
I still have the problem

Whats not to understand or even make up ? The cars have more grip around corners and on straights its hard to turn the car slightly ( which causes the car to become unstable out of turns and on straights )
The wheel turns completely causing the rear end to come out (NOT SLIDE) more than it should you can see it clearly using chase cam

Im not complaining at all im just responding to a comment
I for one think all of these issues would be fixed if they fixed the controller lag.

I cant adapt to it ( atleast not this soon )

 

[vrooom]

I use the DS3...

That explains it all!
In my opinion Shift and Shift 2 are awful with a gamepad! I can't drive at all with a gamepad on Shift 2 - I am constantly crashing!

But connect a good wheel, enable elite mode, manual gears and tweak the wheel settings and Shift 2 transforms to an incredible, realistic and intense racing experience.

I hope you manage to find some settings to suit the DS3 since Shift 2 is a really great game. But on topic when we are judging the physics of a racing sim-game I think we should use a wheel since a gamepad has very small movement and not enough tactile feedback to accurately simulate the steering of a car and therefore a driving-aid (which can not be disabled) is constantly applied.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

That explains it all!
In my opinion Shift and Shift 2 are awful with a gamepad! I can't drive at all with a gamepad on Shift 2 - I am constantly crashing!

But connect a good wheel, enable elite mode, manual gears and tweak the wheel settings and Shift 2 transforms to an incredible, realistic and intense racing experience.

I hope you manage to find some settings to suit the DS3 since Shift 2 is a really great game. But on topic when we are judging the physics of a racing sim-game I think we should use a wheel since a gamepad has very small movement and not enough tactile feedback to accurately simulate the steering of a car and therefore a driving-aid (which can not be disabled) is constantly applied.

well yea with this game only
I can turn the slightest possible on gt5 and other racing games and games with cars

And since everyone dont use a wheel its good to judge the game physics with a controller

 

[JeffKill]

Waiting for my replacement wheel to come back from Logitech, and I tried S2U with a DS3 for the first time. I now definitely understand why controller users are so disappointed with this game. I have zero issues with my DFGT after getting it set up properly and some suspension tuning. But IMO this game absolutely sucks with a pad.

 

[Bigbazz]

My biggest problem with the physics is the lack of full control. Its like driving with traction control on, but also with some automatic countersteer, which makes microadjustments in driving unnecessary most of the time where in a real car you would do it. Made more annoying is that the FFB gives the impression that "oh i need to countersteer this" but since the game then appears to correct it by itself if you do countersteer you run the risk of then countersteering far too much, which is making matters worse. So generally keeping the wheel straight and steady, point and shoot works better, removing most of the control from the user.

Another annoying thing is the swaying, in the faster cars I often get this swaying going on where the FFB will push in one direction against my hands, and then swing back in the other direction like a sail boat rocking back and forth.

Through high speed corners you tend to lose all detail in the FFB giving a complete dead feeling that makes it very difficult to judge what the car is doing mid corner, but as microadjustments are mostly not needed and generally you can hold a very smooth and steady turn angle (reminds me of F1 2010) instead of having to balance the car through the corner, you generally just point and shoot.

Traction off the mark is too high, again it feels like you have some sort of super traction control/launch control system in work with every car, i can just floor it at the lights and pass 2-4 cars at the start in every race, with not a moment to worry about wheelspin.


Understeer on the throttle on corner exits is very minimal and you can get back on the throttle before the corner apex without worrying about understeer in the slightest. In cars like the Shelby Cobra (well known to be power oversteer monsters) you can floor the throttle on corner exit without having to worry about too much oversteer, when in reality you should be going sideways at even the sniff of throttle before you're pointing straight


Just to clarify i am racing with the Elite settings.

 

[brambos]

I just tuned an Audi S3 to the point I can drive it super accurately without any sense of floatiness, wobblyness or twitchyness. It's so good that I can now switch off all the driving aids (except ABS) and drive it with a DS3 to within a second or two of the fastest wheel-users on my autolog. And I'm far from an ace-driver.

It also doesn't slide like most cars with their default setup. It's grippy and handles like you'd expect from a lightweight turbo-engined 4wd car.

This proves to me that the handling is fully dependent on the choice of car and the tuning setup you create. In other words: the physics model seems fine to me, and it's all about mastering the tuning options Shift 2 offers and setting up the controls right in the first place.

It's unfortunate that SMS chose such lousy default settings, because it's the reason why some lazy people give up after the first 2 races and start badmouthing this game on the GT forums.

I can post the tuning settings if anyone would like to try for themselves. 👍

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

I just tuned an Audi S3 to the point I can drive it super accurately without any sense of floatiness, wobblyness or twitchyness. It's so good that I can now switch off all the driving aids (except ABS) and drive it with a DS3 to within a second or two of the fastest wheel-users on my autolog. And I'm far from an ace-driver.

It also doesn't slide like most cars with their default setup. It's grippy and handles like you'd expect from a lightweight turbo-engined 4wd car.

This proves to me that the handling is fully dependent on the choice of car and the tuning setup you create. In other words: the physics model seems fine to me, and it's all about mastering the tuning options Shift 2 offers and setting up the controls right in the first place.

It's unfortunate that SMS chose such lousy default settings, because it's the reason why some lazy people give up after the first 2 races and start badmouthing this game on the GT forums.

I can post the tuning settings if anyone would like to try for themselves. 👍

Post them
I spent hours tweaking everything from suspension to the controllers setting
and it doesnt fix the input lag at all
it may help out a little bit but not to the point were its completely fixed or unnoticeable

I think its dumb to have to tune a stock car to give it the handling a stock car should have off the lot
that makes no sense

 

[buziii]

I just tuned an Audi S3 to the point I can drive it super accurately without any sense of floatiness, wobblyness or twitchyness. It's so good that I can now switch off all the driving aids (except ABS) and drive it with a DS3 to within a second or two of the fastest wheel-users on my autolog. And I'm far from an ace-driver.

It also doesn't slide like most cars with their default setup. It's grippy and handles like you'd expect from a lightweight turbo-engined 4wd car.

This proves to me that the handling is fully dependent on the choice of car and the tuning setup you create. In other words: the physics model seems fine to me, and it's all about mastering the tuning options Shift 2 offers and setting up the controls right in the first place.

It's unfortunate that SMS chose such lousy default settings, because it's the reason why some lazy people give up after the first 2 races and start badmouthing this game on the GT forums.

I can post the tuning settings if anyone would like to try for themselves. 👍

Yes, please do!