Official Shift 2 Physics General Discussion Thread

[boomee]

Lol this is rubbish
the cars stick like glue on s2u
thats why its so easy to flip them
I barely have to break before turns all I do is let off gas

Not to mention every single turn on straights the rear end slides out even at low speeds its like burnout paradise

Its impossible to make the car drive smooth even at low speeds

I mean no disrespect but are you sure you know how to drive these cars on the game. i may not be the best driver but im not having any problem keeping the rear on the cars inplace at low speeds and I have only a pad at this time it might be user error on your end. or maybe you should play with the sensitivity of the controller. Again i am not trying to be disrespectful.

 

[YiNG_YaNG_6o4]

He probably messed up the settings trying to get it right

 

[James1436]

I believe the D pad brings out the telemetry.

Yeah, but you can't bring it out during a replay.

 

[JediRage]

There's an awful number of stickied threads.

 

[///M-Spec]

There's an awful number of stickied threads.

Yep. But it's still preferable to a mess of unsticked threads on the same topics over and over again.

Did you have something you wanted to add to the physics discussion?


M

 

[grimskull]

Glad to finally find a thread about shift2 that everyone just trashes it. I think the game is awsome. I'm not very good at setting up the car yet but i'm getting there. I love the fact that u have 2 fight the car tom keep it under controll. The fact that u can feel on the whell when u loose grip on the front end. Coupled with a good set of 7.1 head phones, the in game sounds are incredible. Really gets my adrenalin going. Only prob I have with it is it freezes up quite a bit. Other than that, THIS GAME ROCKS!
Peace.

 

[grimskull]

The physics in this game are truly amazing. In fact, I'll even say they're as good as GT5's, maybe even better. For example, I like how what someone mentioned earlier about the Cape Ring jump in GT5. You can take that jump at full speed and as long as you keep the tires alinged with the road, you can get away without a scratch. In Shift 2 however, I actually have to slow down before taking a jump, or else consenquences will ensue for taking it too fast. Anyway, the game just handles amazingly with my DFGT on Elite. Just some minor adjustments with the steering settings and no tuning at all on any of my cars so far, and they handle excellently for me. This is really odd considering the problems people are describing in this thread.

I can't find anything at all to complain about in this game. Carrer mode is smooth and very rewarding, car and track list is awesome, the customization options allow me to turn any car into full race car, and again, the physics are just great. Really glad I decided to rent this game first and see it for myself instead of listening to the people who were bad mouthing the game's driving. Now, I'm going to trade in a few games so I can actually own Shift 2 ASAP. It's going to be very difficult to go back to GT5 after playing this spectacular game.[/QUOTE


Mind if I ask what are the few minor adjustments with the steering set ups?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Mind if I ask what are the few minor adjustments with the steering set ups?

Unfortunately, I can't tell you at the moment. I wrote that post while I was renting the game, so I no longer have it. Hopefully, I can buy it this week or early next.

 

[grimskull]

Unfortunately, I can't tell you at the moment. I wrote that post while I was renting the game, so I no longer have it. Hopefully, I can buy it this week or early next.

S alll right man.Just tryin 2 get me settings right. Then I can work more on figuring out tuning. Dont quite know what i'm doin in that reguard. LOL. Love the game though!

 

[boomee]

Yep. But it's still preferable to a mess of unsticked threads on the same topics over and over again.

Did you have something you wanted to add to the physics discussion?


M

Finnally someone i fully agree with lol

 

[MortICi]

My biggest problem with the physics is the lack of full control. Its like driving with traction control on, but also with some automatic countersteer, which makes microadjustments in driving unnecessary most of the time where in a real car you would do it. Made more annoying is that the FFB gives the impression that "oh i need to countersteer this" but since the game then appears to correct it by itself if you do countersteer you run the risk of then countersteering far too much, which is making matters worse. So generally keeping the wheel straight and steady, point and shoot works better, removing most of the control from the user.

Another annoying thing is the swaying, in the faster cars I often get this swaying going on where the FFB will push in one direction against my hands, and then swing back in the other direction like a sail boat rocking back and forth.

Through high speed corners you tend to lose all detail in the FFB giving a complete dead feeling that makes it very difficult to judge what the car is doing mid corner, but as microadjustments are mostly not needed and generally you can hold a very smooth and steady turn angle (reminds me of F1 2010) instead of having to balance the car through the corner, you generally just point and shoot.

Traction off the mark is too high, again it feels like you have some sort of super traction control/launch control system in work with every car, i can just floor it at the lights and pass 2-4 cars at the start in every race, with not a moment to worry about wheelspin.


Understeer on the throttle on corner exits is very minimal and you can get back on the throttle before the corner apex without worrying about understeer in the slightest. In cars like the Shelby Cobra (well known to be power oversteer monsters) you can floor the throttle on corner exit without having to worry about too much oversteer, when in reality you should be going sideways at even the sniff of throttle before you're pointing straight


Just to clarify i am racing with the Elite settings.

I wanted to see if I can explain this point. I think this is a proper game mechanic, from a physics perspective and a tire model perspective. If you ever have an opertunity to power slide a rear wheel drive car, watch what happens with the wheel. If you let it go it will naturally spin to its general countersteer point or basically point the wheels in the right direction (the tire wants to roll parallel to the direction/motion of the car) This is simulated in the game, rather than animating and the driver letting go of the wheel and catching it, its just shown that the driver is countersteering for you. When in reality the motion of the car is forcing the wheels to point in that direction.

I am not sure if I am being clear, but basically if you went into a slide, you would actually have to FIGHT the steering wheel to keep the wheels pointed straight with the car ( like so -> || ) but the natural tendacy of the tire is to go in the direction of the slide (so if you were taking a right hand turn the wheels will naturally pull to the left like so \\).

I hope you know what i mean, but this is a great and accurate representation, i don't know how it transfers to the wheel users, as I am using a Dpad, I am picking up a wheel today or tomorrow so i will let you know. I think in general once the natural countersteer is applied you onlly need to manipulate the throttle and light corrections (more or less counter steer) to steer the car where you want.

This translates into basically letting go of the wheel and letting the FFB do the work (need a really good wheel for this, as you can see in the video below the wheel spins very quickly), and catching it once it reaches its maximum point, and then using throttle and fine input to manage the car. This same principle can be applied to drifting.

See this video and watch the wheel as he goes into a slide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK-Smhl2TC4

Again I think this would just be hard to represent in the game (programming and animation wise) thus i think the simpler method was to just make the animation of countersteer.

I could be explaining this too far, but this to me seems like a proper game mechanic, physics model, and tire model. Based on my own experience from autox (91 MR2 Turbo and 04 WRX).

 

[scooterlord]

Hello. Well, I am playing the PC version and have to agree with many others in here that the game is plain awesome -after a few settings. First of all some serious changes to the Logitech Profiler have to take place (using a G25) in order for the FFB to work right and the problem is that I found this in the community forums - EA didn't bother to tell us. My pc is quite fast so no input lags, or anything, shift 2 is running smooth at 1920x1080 everything on high except antialiasing (I am playing on a 40" TV at 2 meters distance so AA doesn't make any serious changes). Am on an i7 960, 6gb ram, Ati 5850.

Luckily for the PC there's been a handling mod that corrects the floatness of the cars. After this one the game is just FANTASTIC. Feels like it should.

After playing shift the last two weeks I even feel lazy running GT5. I prefer GT5 graphics, but other than that (and nurburgring, and weather changes and rally everything else shift does better.

FFB is as strong as it should be. As soon as the car slides it turns loose, gets grip... wheel gets back strong. Everything on the road is felt on the wheel - curbs, jumps, sidewalks, you name it. As stated above I am also so impressed with the jumps. As soon as the car gets on the road it unpredictable how it will act if you are on high speed.

I read the whole thread and what noone mentioned is that the physics are tied with the AI and crash physics. It's all there. I mean, how can a game have realistic physics but not have realistic collisions? Everything serves its purpose and as a whole the result is astonishing! What I really miss and never encountered it in any other game that simbin's titles is FFB info while braking - Race 07's FFB would rock my wheel so hard I could feel braking to my feet through the wheelstand pro..

..let alone the AWESOME sound, millions of upgrade options, tuning, etc.

Only thing that so far - almost reached GT3, the game on Hard, Elite settings is quite easy. I miss the toughness of GT prologue :/

 

[Sintek]

Just curious if this is the game or the wheel (Fanatec GT3): When I lose traction or slide, the wheel doesn't loosen at all; the dampering stays the same. It feels really strange when I'm used to my DFP giving instant feedback of lost traction.

 

[kikie]

How can they be realistic when most drivers need to use ABS to prevent their brake pedals acting like switches.[/B]

As far as I know, this has nothing to do with the physics engine but all with the potmeters of the pedals (brake pedal). If you should install the Perfect Pedal, you can brake with ABS on 0 and don't get a lock up of the wheels. I could be wrong though.

 

[mattcwell]

^^I just spent 30 seconds trying to figure out if there was a bug inside my screen!

Anyways, until I found pauls thread here:

I thought the physics were awful too. This was because after 1 race or pausing the game, the FFB would go away or totally reverse. If you have a Logitech wheel and have the floaty feeling, you must follow the step-by-step directions on that page and all of your problems will go away.

I too think the physics are at least as good as GT5 if not better now.

 

[Starfirebird]

^^I just spent 30 seconds trying to figure out if there was a bug inside my screen!

Anyways, until I found pauls thread here:

I thought the physics were awful too. This was because after 1 race or pausing the game, the FFB would go away or totally reverse. If you have a Logitech wheel and have the floaty feeling, you must follow the step-by-step directions on that page and all of your problems will go away.

I too think the physics are at least as good as GT5 if not better now.

I've been wanting to try that fix,but i'm waiting for the PSN to come back up before i do though.

Hearing people lose the LE content makes me a little bit cautious.

 

[Dukey_40]

Going back to GT5, well I've hardly touched it since playin Shift 2, it's nowhere near as immersive and adrenalin pumped, I could go on and on ie.Drivin physics, more challenging AI opposition etc..GT5 just seems so stale and predictable now to me...

I prefer Forza 3 personally above all but Shift 2 has run it close for me, even thinkin of tradin in GT5 for SU2 for my Xbox lol..

Anyone know if the online multiplayer on Xbox is 'busier' than the very sedate PSN equivalent? (Current predicament aside ..)

Roll on Forza 4...cant wait!

 

[RomKnight]

Hearing people lose the LE content makes me a little bit cautious.

You don't loose it. It disappears or maybe invisible its a better word. I managed to get it back without PSN.

 

[Starfirebird]

You don't loose it. It disappears or maybe invisible its a better word. I managed to get it back without PSN.

My memory is short so i apologize, i may have asked this already.After using your method does the FFB stay as it does in the first race.I really enjoy how that first race feels.It just stinks when it goes away after that.

 

[RomKnight]

FFB stay as it does in the first race.I really enjoy how that first race feels.It just stinks when it goes away after that.

I have yet to learn how to do miracles so, no

But you can recover the LE

Anyway, you can forget about it now. Word on the street says PSN is up tomorrow

 

[Starfirebird]

I have yet to learn how to do miracles so, no

But you can recover the LE

Anyway, you can forget about it now. Word on the street says PSN is up tomorrow

Ok cool man.

I thought it was just for the LE,but wasn't sure.

I just wonder if PSN comes up will the 2nd patch be coming with it?That would be expecting too much

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Just installed the patch for the PS3 version and I have to say that it only improved the feel to the car slightly. Still floats and slides like hell. I only managed race for 30 mins and almost throw my DS3 in to the wall. Almost.

My digital racing self is crying silently.
Still like a quad zillion bugs freezes and lags.
I feel like a passenger in the car. No control what so ever.
I beats the hell out of me cuz the game has the best atmosphere in a racing game at the time.

Maybe I have to sell the game finally.

And where is that Ian Bell guy??!
Are they even listening to the community or just carried away by the "EA pays me to lie" HC players.

And for the sake of Jesus and Mohammed don´t cry because my grammar is not perfect!

 

[Starfirebird]

Just installed the patch for the PS3 version and I have to say that it only improved the feel to the car slightly. Still floats and slides like hell. I only managed race for 30 mins and almost throw my DS3 in to the wall. Almost.

My digital racing self is crying silently.
Still like a quad zillion bugs freezes and lags.
I feel like a passenger in the car. No control what so ever.
I beats the hell out of me cuz the game has the best atmosphere in a racing game at the time.

Maybe I have to sell the game finally.

And where is that Ian Bell guy??!
Are they even listening to the community or just carried away by the "EA pays me to lie" HC players.

And for the sake of Jesus and Mohammed don´t cry because my grammar is not perfect!

I heard adjusting your steering lock between 7 and 10 works wonders for the DS3.There has been many players who are enjoying the game more after the first patch of two.The 2nd one should be here shortly i would think.

 

[brainfade]

Just installed the patch for the PS3 version and I have to say that it only improved the feel to the car slightly. Still floats and slides like hell. I only managed race for 30 mins and almost throw my DS3 in to the wall. Almost.

My digital racing self is crying silently.
Still like a quad zillion bugs freezes and lags.
I feel like a passenger in the car. No control what so ever.
I beats the hell out of me cuz the game has the best atmosphere in a racing game at the time.

Maybe I have to sell the game finally.

And where is that Ian Bell guy??!
Are they even listening to the community or just carried away by the "EA pays me to lie" HC players.

My thoughts exactly on the subject of physics.

And for the sake of Jesus and Mohammed don´t cry because my grammar is not perfect!

You forgot Brahma, Abraham, Unicorns, Leprecauns, Keyboard Car and The Flying Spagetti Monster

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Dead on. Why is it that only slight negative or positive criticism is considered legit and meaningful?? So far every time that I try finally screaming my thoughts loud enough for someone to care I only get insults or attempts to silence me in return?

 

[tinram]

Just installed the patch for the PS3 version and I have to say that it only improved the feel to the car slightly. Still floats and slides like hell. I only managed race for 30 mins and almost throw my DS3 in to the wall. Almost.

My digital racing self is crying silently.
Still like a quad zillion bugs freezes and lags.
I feel like a passenger in the car. No control what so ever.
I beats the hell out of me cuz the game has the best atmosphere in a racing game at the time.

Maybe I have to sell the game finally.

And where is that Ian Bell guy??!
Are they even listening to the community or just carried away by the "EA pays me to lie" HC players.

And for the sake of Jesus and Mohammed don´t cry because my grammar is not perfect!

I'm not expecting floaty and slidey physics to be fixed.

If you call your self the "most realistic racing" and have an Elite "Most Realistic" mode, you would expect it to be everything your physics engine is capable of, and sadly i think that's what we got. Physics will have to wait for Shift3 "the ultra realistic racer".

 

[UkHardcore23]

I'm not expecting floaty and slidey physics to be fixed.

If you call your self the "most realistic racing" and have an Elite "Most Realistic" mode, you would expect it to be everything your physics engine is capable of, and sadly i think that's what we got. Physics will have to wait for Shift3 "the ultra realistic racer".

It's really odd your still really struggling with the physics...is it because you just want GT5's unrealistic glued to the road physics? If so have you used the GT1 and 3 cars? They are tuned fantastically well and although it's not quite super glue material it's probably the closest you'l get to GT5 , Also you should check out some of the tunes at the top of the page instead of racing with standard road car's which of course aint going to feel great on a racetrack.

 

[tinram]

It's really odd your still really struggling with the physics...is it because you just want GT5's unrealistic glued to the road physics? If so have you used the GT1 and 3 cars? They are tuned fantastically well and although it's not quite super glue material it's probably the closest you'l get to GT5 , Also you should check out some of the tunes at the top of the page instead of racing with standard road car's which of course aint going to feel great on a racetrack.

And you are still defending Shift2's flawed physics, i guess nothing has changed.

Cars should not appear (even slightly) to be four wheel drifting on corners and still be fast. Most of the video with good drivers going fast shows this, i do not see why you don't see this. It might just be one of my pet peeves, and most folks just ignore this and have fun. But this just bugs me.

 

[UkHardcore23]

And you are still defending Shift2's flawed physics, i guess nothing has changed.

Cars should not appear (even slightly) to be four wheel drifting on corners and still be fast. Most of the video with good drivers going fast shows this, i do not see why you don't see this. It might just be one of my pet peeves, and most folks just ignore this and have fun. But this just bugs me.

Ok, try this out......

Buy a LP-560, Works Convert It and use this tune

Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4, Version 3 - Works Converted

PI Rating: A-2029

Tires and Brakes

F. Tire Pressure - 34.00
R. Tire Pressure - 37.00
Brake Balance - 50.00
Brake Pressure - 11.00

Alignment

Steering Lock - 18.00
Caster Angle - 10.00
F. Toe Angle - 23.00
R. Toe Angle - 21.00
F. Camber - 23.00
R. Camber - 19.00

Stance

F. Ride Height - 1.00
R. Ride Height - 4.00

Differential

L. Slip Acceleration Lock - N/A
L. Slip Decceleration Lock - N/A
L. Slip Preload - 0.00
Visco Electronic Lock - 10.00

Aerodynamics

F. Downforce - 18.00
R. Downforce - 18.00

Springs

F. Sway Bar - 5.00
R. Sway Bar - 3.00
F. Spring Rate - 1.00
R. Spring Rate - 1.00
F. Bump Stop - 5.00
R. Bump Stop - 5.00

Dampers

F. Damper Fast Bump - 0.00
F. Damper Slow Bump - 1.00
F. Damper Fast Rebound - 1.00
F. Damper Slow Rebound - 2.00
R. Damper Fast Bump - 1.00
R. Damper Slow Bump - 1.00
R. Damper Fast Rebound - 2.00
R. Damper Slow Rebound - 0.00

Drivetrain

Final - 6.00
1st - 2.00 [Actual: 8.59]
2nd - 4.00 [Actual: 7.38]
3rd - 3.00 [Actual: 5.33]
4th - 3.00 [Actual: 4.04]
5th - 3.00 [Actual: 3.30]
6th - 3.00 [Actual: 2.38]
7th - N/A [Actual: N/A]

Disclaimer: Precision vehicle with a hint of understeer and lift-off oversteer. Steering response is a bit laggy but is very straight-forward despite the lag. Fastest lap at London River: 1:10.504 (S).

Renown Tuning - Driver Discretion Advised.

If your still having major trouble controlling the car then it is your driving or your control setup that is wrong....

Let us know how you get on. 👍

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

It's really odd your still really struggling with the physics...is it because you just want GT5's unrealistic glued to the road physics? If so have you used the GT1 and 3 cars? They are tuned fantastically well and although it's not quite super glue material it's probably the closest you'l get to GT5 , Also you should check out some of the tunes at the top of the page instead of racing with standard road car's which of course aint going to feel great on a racetrack.

You realize that some of us have wasted several hours to get our IRL road racing setup experience to shift2 with awful results? Its not the setups. It doesent have to feel like glue. But still theres something wrong when a GT1 machine four wheel drifts like hell in a really fast corner, in full downforce, in a downhill...