Official Shift 2 Physics General Discussion Thread

[brambos]

Ok...here is my Audi S3 tune:

Total cost 36700$, D499

Upgrades:
- high flow cone and intake
- high flow rear muffler
- pro street cams
- street performance valve job
- street spec flywheel
- heavy duty organic clutch
- quick change gear stack
- race coilover suspension
- uprated brakepads
- fast road brake setup
- dual purpose street/track tires

Tuning setup:
Tire pressure (f/r): 50/55
Steering lock: 12 (I suspect this one kills the twitchyness)
Caster angle: 12
Toe angle (f/r): 19/21
Camber (f/r): 25/16
Ride height (f/r): 4/4
Swaybar (f/r): 5/5
Spring rate (f/r): 3/3
Bump stop (f/r): 3/3
Front damper fast bump: 3
Front damper slow bump: 3
Front damper fast rebound: 3
Front danper slow rebound: 3
Rear damper: all settings same as front damper (can be improved I think)
Gear settings (final/1/2/3/4/5/6): 2/0/1/1/1/1/1

My control settings (based on Renown setup):
Steering deadzone 3
Steering sensitivity 5
Speed sensitivity 75

I think these settings can even be further refined, but with my pad controller setup I've been breaking quite some records in the D class events using these as they are now.

Hope this helps someone! 👍

 

[buziii]

I'm going to give them a try. I've been fiddling with the tuning, but I'm not good at it and don't always know what I'm doing.

I was trying to use these as a starting point, but they don't seem to work well for the lower level cars at least.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198682

I see you on my AutoLog often, so it seems we may be in the same ballpark on speed, although I think you're faster in most cases. I can't let you get too far ahead of me!

 

[brambos]

I'm going to give them a try. I've been fiddling with the tuning, but I'm not good at it and don't always know what I'm doing.

I was trying to use these as a starting point, but they don't seem to work well for the lower level cars at least.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198682

I've tried those settings too, but they don't really fit my style of driving very well. They're very quick indeed, but a bit too slidy-slippery for my taste. Maybe they work better with a wheel+pedals.

I also really like the lower level cars and events best. My career isn't progressing very much because I keep going back to the C and D class events and hotlapping on quick races.

 

[buziii]

I've tried those settings too, but they don't really fit my style of driving very well. They're very quick indeed, but a bit too slidy-slippery for my taste. Maybe they work better with a wheel+pedals.

I also really like the lower level cars and events best. My career isn't progressing very much because I keep going back to the C and D class events and hotlapping on quick races.

My thoughts exactly, I could not turn without sliding with those settings. It's hard enough to turn without sliding in this game as it is, I don't need to make it worse.

I'm still in the C & D level events because I've restarted a couple of times now, due to the bonus cash glitch. But I usually enjoy driving the lower level cars more anyway, so I'm in no hurry to progress.

Hopefully, your driving style is similar to mine, and these settings will help me too. I'll let you know...or better yet, you'll know if I start passing your AutoLog times!

 

[UkHardcore23]

Waiting for my replacement wheel to come back from Logitech, and I tried S2U with a DS3 for the first time. I now definitely understand why controller users are so disappointed with this game. I have zero issues with my DFGT after getting it set up properly and some suspension tuning. But IMO this game absolutely sucks with a pad.

It only seems to be an issue with the DS, the 360 pad is excellent for this game especially with ZEROG's settings.

 

[buziii]

Hey brambos - those settings must really be working for you! I noticed last night you beat 6 of my records on Autolog yesterday! Now, I have to work to get 'em back from you!

 

[brambos]

Hey brambos - those settings must really be working for you! I noticed last night you beat 6 of my records on Autolog yesterday! Now, I have to work to get 'em back from you!

Looking forward to it! See you on Autolog tonight 👍

 

[SilverArrow]

i really hope the patch doesn't only fix the input lag because that isn't the only reason I'm finding it so hard to drive. When you aren't able to control your car in a straight line yet confortably go around the corners you know there is something badly wrong and makes me wonder how these issues weren't spotted in testing becuase I realised them in my first day driving.

 

[RomKnight]

I've tried those settings too, but they don't really fit my style of driving very well. They're very quick indeed, but a bit too slidy-slippery for my taste. Maybe they work better with a wheel+pedals.

The feel "slidy" because of the tire pressure. Its to high on every tune shown in the OP. This is based on some tests and other tunes I've used.

Very few cars need tire pressure above 45 IMHO.

/edit tire pressure

 

[Minardi]

Shift 2's physics are awesome. There, I said It. Yesterday I had my first serious test of the game and did some C and D events with the Seat Cupra. PS3, G25, Elite. I started off with helmet cam and some minor upgrades to the Seat. I adjusted some wheel settings like you can find in this forum. It takes some time to get used to the driving, but eventually I could do some clean laps and really race the AI. I can recommend the BMW 135i race events, that car feels great. I soon earned cash to get the seat works converted, so I did. Took it to Spa, my favourite circuit where I have done countless of laps in other games. Did nothing with settings, just took It on track. The first lap It looked as If I was a rookie, and even the 2nd. Changed to cockpit view, now that makes a big difference for me, the slower cars are good to drive with helmet cam, the faster are not, at least for me. As I said, It looked as If I was a beginner. But It turns out you really,and I mean REALLY have to be gentle with the throttle and brake. Do a lap half speed and build It up. After a few laps I began to get the hang of It, and I have felt everything from understeer to oversteer, and some serious crashes. Touch the grass at high speed, and most likely you can't correct It, sometimes you can. Unforgiving. I can understand people give up, but It is to soon. There is a great physics engine underneath and once you can get a Works car at a decent pace around the track, there is not much better these days on console. Besides that, you can have great fun in the different events with more forgiving cars to start with and AI indeed is great. Without a patch the driving feels already good, but you have to put some work in It. Elite is not for Rookies.

 

[tinram]

Yay!!!

I really don't care if it's realistic or not. It's fun. The physics are extremely quirky. I love a racing game with a sense of humor.

Shift2, i found funny and fun for a few days until i got to time attack races, then it was just funny and annoying.

On time attack, i have to slide every corner to win the races (24% @ Hard/Elite G25/PS3), How can slipping and sliding be faster than grip driving on tarmac? Now, that's just flawed physics. They should have just made a rally title.

Drifting on the wheel, arrggghhh. The common answer i see here is "use DS3".

The developer should have stopped the marketing folks with the "the most realistic @#$%&*" tag line. I felt like they either dumbed down the physics (which hopefully they can fix) or their physics just hit it's limits.

 

[HeadsoupBob]

I can't understand this, I have not found 'drifting' around corners at all faster then taking the corner with a good line and smoothly. Unless you mean to overtake/keep ahead of the AI?

Being sideways definitely scrubs off speed.

 

[brambos]

I can't understand this, I have not found 'drifting' around corners at all faster then taking the corner with a good line and smoothly. Unless you mean to overtake/keep ahead of the AI?

Being sideways definitely scrubs off speed.

It does, and when you have a well-tuned car then proper driving is always faster than drifting. But it is one of the hate-memes that keeps coming back from the anti-shift crowd (like the 1.5 seconds steering lag hyperbole and the "omg it's undrivable like Ridge Racer!" comments).

 

[UkHardcore23]

If people are sliding every corner than they are not driving properly. 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

Having played Shift 2 initially with DS3 and lately with a wheel, it's certainly a considerably more impressive game with a wheel. The DS3 is a very, very poor method of control for the game - the handling is slow-witted, inconsistent and just not a lot of fun. Using a wheel seems both more responsive and more fun, but it's still not perfect and in similarity to driving a real car it's not a patch on GT5.

Shift does have a much better impression of weight to the car than GT5 and more of a feeling that the cars are reacting to bumps more realistically, but in every other department GT5 is still either a little or a lot better. Cars are more responsive and move around more naturally, and they're a lot better once grip breaks away and you have to control a slide.

Shift's physics model falls apart once the car starts to slide and it's definitely more luck than judgement if you hold it or not. The model used on drifting is also flawed and it's unfortunate that they saw fit to change the steering ratio for drifting - it makes it nearly impossible with a wheel. It's the one mode in the game where a DS3 is a better method of control.

In contrast, GT5 is much more natural when sliding. It's not perfect, there's still a slightly glassy feeling to the traction (it feels like it should be a little harder to break traction) but going sideways and controlling it feels a lot better. Feedback with a FF wheel is better too, though Shift gets brownie points for sending proper rumbles through the wheel when you go over crests or kerbs, when GT5 does not.

Shift is a lot of fun and a decent racing game, but for the pure driving aspect it's still not up there with GT5.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm not sure what you guys are playing, but the driving mechanics on S2U have nothing on GT5.

 

[RomKnight]

Good thing S2U is not a driving but racing game.

Physics wise the one annoying thing about this game has to do with FFB. Gives you an illusion that the physics are wrong when you FFB disapears but I'm used to it now. After its fixed it will change how people see this game. I still believe this but I like the game...

 

[Cyber_stig_77]

I've had this game for a few weeks now and I'm becoming more impressed every time i play it especially when it comes to physics ! . I've done my fair share of racing over the years in go-karts , motorcycles, speedway and motocross and when any of my old racing buddies have a go of S2U the first thing they say is **** this is full on then after about 15min the next comment is " that's heaps more realistic " in reference to the previous "real driving simulator" they had played prior to S2U and with some fine tuning i would have to agree. People complain about the steering going light but i have come to like it more and more because it really lets you push the car to the limit and make the car push the front into some of the corners, when your on the racing line , on the limit of grip there is no better feeling than being able to push the front and still maintain your line!

My weapon of choice is the logitech G25 and here are some of my personal tuning tweaks for anyone who would like a try.

Handling mode - elite
FFB - 100 %
Steering sensitivity - 67 %
Steering dead zone - 1.
Wheel rotation - 900*
Steering lock - 27. (very important)
tyre pressure - 38 / 38.
most of the other setting are default more or less.

all suspension/brake settings to middle of range (stiffness, rebound, dampening etc) ridehight 2 or 3 front and back

I use this as my default setup for basically all cars on all tracks and then work from there to individually tune each car.

hope this helps.

 

[tinram]

I can't understand this, I have not found 'drifting' around corners at all faster then taking the corner with a good line and smoothly. Unless you mean to overtake/keep ahead of the AI?

Being sideways definitely scrubs off speed.

Who said drift?

If people are sliding every corner than they are not driving properly. 👍

Have you done the time attack on hard/elite with a wheel?

 

[JJ72]

I can win the time attacks with a second or so to spare just by driving a clean and rapid lap.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Who said drift?



Have you done the time attack on hard/elite with a wheel?

Yes but with a 360 pad, i'd imagine it would be much easier with a wheel. Also those time attack cars are loan cars which are standard roads cars hence the handling is soft...do you still have bother with sliding once you have upgraded and tuned your cars? If so you should check out Reknown Tuning thread...it's great! 👍

 

[homeforsummer]

I can win the time attacks with a second or so to spare just by driving a clean and rapid lap.

No kidding, you win time attacks by going quickly?...

I'll add to my previous comments above that I had a good few more hours with Shift 2 last night and in the car and track combos I used and the races I did, it was very, very good and got pretty close to GT5 in the impression of actually driving.

Firstly, there's a confidence barrier to get over between cold and warm tyres. GT5 has a good transition between cold and warm but it doesn't really affect the lines you take, more the speed you go - you have to brake a little earlier on colds, go a little slower in the bends, but essentially you drive the same.

In Shift there's a marked difference, as if you can actually feel when the tyres are warming up, you gain confidence in pushing harder, start feeling how hard you can chuck the car into a bend. It's impressive and adds to the experience of really being "on it".

I did an hour or so in a bone-stock 911 GT3 RS yesterday at various tracks doing time attacks and it was some of the best fun I've had in driving games and not just fun, it felt realistic too. It's still not quite there in terms of feel and response as GT5 (tried S2U back to back with GT5 in as similar car as I could manage, the RUF RGT, and GT5 still has the edge for accuracy and feeling how the car moves around) but it's very, very close. As for immersion it's probably a little better - it's amazing how much difference a little more fighting with the wheel and some great engine sounds can make...

 

[vrooom]

I have already said that I love the physics of Shift 2 and that (with a well tuned wheel) are by far the best on consoles and comparable (and sometimes better) to the physics of the best PC racing-sim-games.

I just completed the GT3 events of Shift 2 with a well tuned Corvette GT3. It was the most fun I ever had in a driving/racing game! I made the car lower, the suspension stiffer, a bit more downforce, less steering lock (I have a 180º wheel and I needed to make the steering more precise) and tweaked caster angle. The car was amazing with all aids off, controllable and I found the handling to be very precise, realistic and rewarding! Tuning makes a real difference in this game and you have many options to change, much more than comparable games! 👍

I could enter a corner, balance the car and when I sensed understeer I could correct it with throttle and opposite lock! The way the game was communicating to me (via visuals, sounds and ffb) the state of the car and the way I was in control to make adjustments using throttle and steering inputs was extremely rewarding and proves to me that the physics of Shift 2 are amazing and very realistic! Coupled with great racing mechanics (AI), graphics and tracks I am extremely satisfied with Shift 2!

Another small detail I noticed in Shift 2. When the car is stationary and you are revving the engine you can sense the car rotating round the crankshaft axis. Shift 2 represents this, like most comparable games, while a certain 'driving simulator' doesn't! I noticed that when I had the physics display overlay enabled and was revving the engine, the circles representing the pressure applied to tires were slightly changing! This (along with other more important things) in my opinion proves the attention to details of Shift 2 physics and that Shift 2's handling is based on a physical model.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

The physics in this game are truly amazing. In fact, I'll even say they're as good as GT5's, maybe even better. For example, I like how what someone mentioned earlier about the Cape Ring jump in GT5. You can take that jump at full speed and as long as you keep the tires alinged with the road, you can get away without a scratch. In Shift 2 however, I actually have to slow down before taking a jump, or else consenquences will ensue for taking it too fast. Anyway, the game just handles amazingly with my DFGT on Elite. Just some minor adjustments with the steering settings and no tuning at all on any of my cars so far, and they handle excellently for me. This is really odd considering the problems people are describing in this thread.

I can't find anything at all to complain about in this game. Carrer mode is smooth and very rewarding, car and track list is awesome, the customization options allow me to turn any car into full race car, and again, the physics are just great. Really glad I decided to rent this game first and see it for myself instead of listening to the people who were bad mouthing the game's driving. Now, I'm going to trade in a few games so I can actually own Shift 2 ASAP. It's going to be very difficult to go back to GT5 after playing this spectacular game.

 

[HeadsoupBob]

I like that if you just buy a few upgrades and slap them on the car it doesn't always instantly mean you have an awesome handling/faster car. You actually have to go in and play with the tuning to match the upgrades. I never bother with tuning in other games because it never seemed necessary unless chasing leaderboard times (which I also never did until Autolog, which is awesome), but in Shift 2 I'm doing a lot of tuning becuase I really notice it on the track!

It's fun to take a stock car that handles like a floaty production car, add tuneable suspension (if necessary) etc and tune it for the track and really see/feel the rewards of doing so

 

[///M-Spec]

On time attack, i have to slide every corner to win the races (24% @ Hard/Elite G25/PS3), How can slipping and sliding be faster than grip driving on tarmac? Now, that's just flawed physics. They should have just made a rally title.

Who said drift?

I think some clarification would be helpful here.

Tire slip is defined as the difference between the direction a tire is pointed in and the direction it is actually traveling in. Since a (modern) tire produces max grip when slipping by a few degrees, it would be accurate to say tire slip is required for fast laps. Therefore a program that has a tire model that simulates this would be 'realistic'.

On the other hand, sliding is colloquially used to describe a tire that has 'lost grip', characterized by extreme slip angles. Drifting would fall into this category.

I haven't gotten to the B or A events quite yet. Only about 13% in and driving cars with little to no downforce. But in my experience so far, the tire models in S2U feels reasonably correct. Sliding around is definitely showing up with slower laps, while keeping the tires working at modest slip angles, intelligent lines and clean driving is rewarded with quick times.

It's not perfect though; I feel the street tire model has slightly too much grip, and recovers too quickly -- and the R-compound model is slightly too forgiving. I'm on the PC, Elite with a wheel, btw.

It would probably help if you could upload a video of your driving, so we could see what you're talking about.


M

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think the problem is the same as early builds of iRacing. The slip angle where max grip is achieved is too high...therefore all the cars look like they are constantly drifting around the track. All you have to do is look at a replay from S2U.

 

[///M-Spec]

Are you referring to the AI cars or the player car?

The AI cars look like they have their own (simplified) physics.


M

 

[James1436]

I think some clarification would be helpful here.

Tire slip is defined as the difference between the direction a tire is pointed in and the direction it is actually traveling in. Since a (modern) tire produces max grip when slipping by a few degrees, it would be accurate to say tire slip is required for fast laps. Therefore a program that has a tire model that simulates this would be 'realistic'.

On the other hand, sliding is colloquially used to describe a tire that has 'lost grip', characterized by extreme slip angles. Drifting would fall into this category.

I haven't gotten to the B or A events quite yet. Only about 13% in and driving cars with little to no downforce. But in my experience so far, the tire models in S2U feels reasonably correct. Sliding around is definitely showing up with slower laps, while keeping the tires working at modest slip angles, intelligent lines and clean driving is rewarded with quick times.

It's not perfect though; I feel the street tire model has slightly too much grip, and recovers too quickly -- and the R-compound model is slightly too forgiving. I'm on the PC, Elite with a wheel, btw.

It would probably help if you could upload a video of your driving, so we could see what you're talking about.


M

Once you get to the higher ranks, can you try testing out the lamborghini lp-560 gt3? I drive it in game, and I can see the car sliding. Im not sure if its the slip angle though, it seems as if all 4 wheels are sliding sideways more then usual. Also is there a way to see the telemetry during a replay,like forza 3?It would make so much more sense how the physics are working.

 

[JJ72]

I believe the D pad brings out the telemetry.