Over-revving damages your engine!

[Der Meister]

Yeh, I do that same as Duke. I shift far beyond the red line, usually i work out to the nearest 100rpm of the engine cut out, and shift just before that. And I haven't noticed this theory of yours, but I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that I've never paid attention to it. It may also come down to the car in question, was it a used car with high milage to start with?

But I don't think that engine wear will bother too many people, and cars that lose to much can be bought back anyway, and winable cars (other than licences and missions) car be won back.

I can't see this really affecting somebodies game dramatically, although it is interesting to know.

 

[iLex]

Yeh, I do that same as Duke. I shift far beyond the red line, usually i work out to the nearest 100rpm of the engine cut out, and shift just before that. And I haven't noticed this theory of yours, but I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that I've never paid attention to it. It may also come down to the car in question, was it a used car with high milage to start with?

Both cars were won, so there was no mileage on the counter.
It's real and it did happen. I hadn't noticed it either, untill, for the first time in my 78% game, an oil change didn't bring back lost hp (after 50 km!!)

But I don't think that engine wear will bother too many people, and cars that lose to much can be bought back anyway, and winable cars (other than licences and missions) car be won back.

I can't see this really affecting somebodies game dramatically, although it is interesting to know.

I agree, but I like to know these things. I've had some games (though not many) that came with a rather long manual that described every aspect of the game, so you know what you're doing.

 

[Nøz]

strange

 

[Duke]

strange

I know you've been contacted after this message was posted, but I wanted to make it perfectly clear that pointless posts like this are not favored at GTPlanet.

You've clearly been postwhoring to make 100 posts for a custom avatar. You've managed to do that in only 4 days by putting useless comments like this all over the boards. In the process you've racked up 2 out of your allowed 3 strikes and probably made no friends besides Alpine.

So now that you've been warned publicly and privately, we'll expect to see no more of this behaviour.

 

[FormulaGT]

This is not dead-set accurate, but while completing high speed runs for the 300 MPH Club, I did notice what I thought[I/] was severe HP loss after about 100 miles. The Minolta I was driving lost around 3-4 MPH off it's top speed average (around ~366.5, give or take a few 100ths).

NB, I never save after a run, as to keep my mileage at 0. All I do is update the setup from memory.

With the same car, I was practicing at Monaco (near full pace), However after ~100 miles, the car had not relinguished any speed at the finish line & and I was still completing laps within 0.8 seconds of each other.

Quite odd, but it would be interesting to nail this one on the head:tup:

FomrulaGT

 

[iLex]

This is not dead-set accurate, but while completing high speed runs for the 300 MPH Club, I did notice what I thought[I/] was severe HP loss after about 100 miles. The Minolta I was driving lost around 3-4 MPH off it's top speed average (around ~366.5, give or take a few 100ths).

Was this permanent or could you bring it back with an oil change?
Could you maybe record the data the next time this happens?
I'm really looking for more data on this, but I don't have the time to go and abuse cars, let alone drive them for 30,000 miles
I'm counting a bit on this community to help me get some data.

And for the people who wonder why I want to know this: I just like to know as much about the game as I can. If there's no manual to help me, then I'll have to figure it out myself.

 

[Metar]

And for the people who wonder why I want to know this: I just like to know as much about the game as I can. If there's no manual to help me, then I'll have to figure it out myself.

And concerning that - some cars aren't re-winnable. As an example, take the R89C. It's one of the rarest cars in the game. I mean, you win it once, and I don't know many people who'd start a new save, do those 10 missions (34 too ), and sell that car, just to have one without power-loss...

 

[MikeB]

Oh god... that would explain the 10hp loss . I drive standard all the time and red line to get more speed out of each gear.

 

[iLex]

Oh god... that would explain the 10hp loss . I drive standard all the time and red line to get more speed out of each gear.

There is also a permanent loss after a certain mileage. Run the 24h of Le Mans with a new car and it'll have less horses afterwards... permanently.
If possible, please let me know what the mileage on your car is and how many hp it has lost (after oil change, as stated in the list in the garage for comparison).

I really wonder if this loss is universal or only for the Giulia/old cars. The Giulia that had 140 bhp when I started this thread is now at 129bhp @ 245.6 km. A smaller loss than with the other one, but still.

Are there any other players out there with data on this?

 

[BobK]

It could vary from car to car. I've done a fair amount of testing with a Ford GT and found no evidence of redlining having any effect whatsoever on horsepower loss; only mileage.

 

[Orion]

Exactly, after numerous tests with my Nissan R390 GT1 Road Car, it does nothing to affect damage at all. Just drive a Chapparal 2D or 2J, they go past the redline all the time.

 

[AOS-]

you DO realize a number showing HP doesn't neccessarily affect how strong your car is? I mean have you driven the Amuse CarbonR? the quickstats show it's 8130 RPM. When you see that, that's a good thing. But when you drive it, it doesn't feel like a 8130 RPM car

 

[Orion]

You know used cars and new cars might not have different HP?

Just buy the Audi TT 1.8T Quattro, one used, one new. Give both an oil change.

Go do a race with both of them, and watch them both read the same HP number when watching the replay. Both 221HP. So maybe engine wear is not really happening, except when the oil is gone on a long race or tourney.

 

[iLex]

You know used cars and new cars might not have different HP?

Just buy the Audi TT 1.8T Quattro, one used, one new. Give both an oil change.

Go do a race with both of them, and watch them both read the same HP number when watching the replay. Both 221HP. So maybe engine wear is not really happening, except when the oil is gone on a long race or tourney.

The replay screen shows 120bhp for my 129bhp Giulia and 113bhp for the 121bhp Giulia, so there's a difference.

After driving the Pescarolo Playstation C60 in the 24h of Sarthe it permanently lost about 14bhp. I think this is normal engine wear.

What is happening to the Giulias really seems to be something different. The 129bhp Giullia has a higher mileage than the 121bhp one!

I have had no trouble like this with any other car yet, though...

edit: Since the title of this thread was not reflecting what I meant, I changed the it. I meant hitting the rev limiter and not the redline might damage your engine. Sorry

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

You know used cars and new cars might not have different HP?

Just buy the Audi TT 1.8T Quattro, one used, one new. Give both an oil change.

Go do a race with both of them, and watch them both read the same HP number when watching the replay. Both 221HP. So maybe engine wear is not really happening, except when the oil is gone on a long race or tourney.

The replay screen shows 120bhp for my 129bhp Giulia and 113bhp for the 121bhp Giulia, so there's a difference.

The HP displayed in the replays do not include the boost of HP you get from fresh oil. This would account for why you see these differences.

If you don't believe me, buy two of the same cars. Change the oil for one of them. Then enter them in a race and watch the beginning of both replays. You'll see that it will show that they both have the same HP... when in fact the one with the oil change will have more.

 

[Orion]

D-N, It does show the boost of it for used cars, but not new cars. Maybe new cars with oil doesn't have affected HP values.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The HP displayed in the replays do not include the boost of HP you get from fresh oil. This would account for why you see these differences.

If you don't believe me, buy two of the same cars. Change the oil for one of them. Then enter them in a race and watch the beginning of both replays. You'll see that it will show that they both have the same HP... when in fact the one with the oil change will have more.

I noticed this too. Race replay hp is different from garage hp is different from the dyno hp (when you pull up the power/torque chart as you tune) is different from the hp that you read when the chart is not pulled up. Confusing.

 

[iLex]

The HP displayed in the replays do not include the boost of HP you get from fresh oil. This would account for why you see these differences.

If you don't believe me, buy two of the same cars. Change the oil for one of them. Then enter them in a race and watch the beginning of both replays. You'll see that it will show that they both have the same HP... when in fact the one with the oil change will have more.

This explains the identical bhp values CNG mentioned, but it doesn't cover the fact that "my" giulias have a different amount of bhp, both in the garage and in the replay.
Am I the only one who has encountered permanent power loss in a car at a mileage of only 50km?

 

[AyJay]

yeah i noticed this too. Race replay hp is different from garage hp is different from the dyno hp (when you pull up the power/torque chart as you tune) is different from the hp that you read when the chart is not pulled up. Confusing.

Hey, i noticed this too, I just thought it was because of conversion errors from BHP to Kilowatts . Also, the dealership hp/kw is different Do we know which is the one to trust? Does the value change in the same proportion for all the cars (for vehicle comparison reasons)?

 

[Speed Drifter]

I'm in the process of driving a stock Subaru 360 which I won as a prize, a couple ten thousand km's to see how much it's losing the power.
So far I'm at 5500 odd km's without initial oil changing and it has lost only few percents of the original power.. and I'm not using b-spec at all

 

[iLex]

I'm in the process of driving a stock Subaru 360 which I won as a prize, a couple ten thousand km's to see how much it's losing the power.
So far I'm at 5500 odd km's without initial oil changing and it has lost only few percents of the original power.. and I'm not using b-spec at all

Interesting. Please keep me posted! 👍

 

[Orion]

iLex, sorry I made a mistake, I meant when you add oil to a car, on replays there isn't no gain to stock HP,(or it appears that way in replays) unless the car is used.

The Audi TT Quattro had 221HP in replay without oil, and still 221HP in replay with oil.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

This explains the identical bhp values CNG mentioned, but it doesn't cover the fact that "my" giulias have a different amount of bhp, both in the garage and in the replay.
Am I the only one who has encountered permanent power loss in a car at a mileage of only 50km?

I haven't driven a car in GT4 yet far enough to experience this but I think what you're saying is true...this isn't new info by the way, I've come across a few GT4 threads on this very subject (permanent power loss).

I just wanna say this: I just finished the final Pan-Euro race at the Ring. I qualified first but during my qualifying I did plenty of redlining in a BMW M3. I'm not sure how many times I went too far and the engine hit the rev-limit...I'm guessing maybe 4 or 5 times (which means it was probly twice that). I was letting it redline because the peak power is at 7,900 rpms and the redline is 8,000 so I'd let it go a bit further.

Anyways, before my qualifying, I had full stage 3 power of 514 horses. After qualifying it had fallen to about 491!!!!!

dismayed, I went and got the oil changed to bump the power back up. Well the power went back to 514, but since I "left" the track i was now in 6th place! Well that won't do.

I did another qual-run...this time being careful to shift earlier. Occasionally the M3 would redline but I never hit the rev-limiter...and voila...after my run I still had 514 horses! Interesting.

While my car didn't suffer permanent loss (yet) it was an eye-opener to see so much power get temporarily lost after those few minutes of qualifying. 💡

 

[iLex]

I haven't driven a car in GT4 yet far enough to experience this but i think what you're saying is true...this isn't new info by the way, i've come across a few gt4 threads on this very subject (permanent power loss).

I know there are threads about permanent power loss, but I only found info on the loss by high mileage, not after 50km. Then again, I haven't done a search after I started this thread almost a year ago (!) and I haven't been here for a few months so maybe there is some more info now

I just wanna say this: i just finished the final Pan-Euro race at the Ring. I qualified first but during my qualifying i did plenty of redlining in a BMW M3. I'm not sure how many times i went too far and the engine hit the rev-limit...i'm guessing maybe 4 or 5 times (which means it was probly twice that). i was letting it redline because the peak power is at 7,900 rpms and the redline is 8,000 so i'd let it go a bit further.

Anyways, before my qualifying, i had full stage 3 power of 514 horses. After qualifying it had fallen to about 491!!!!!

dismayed, i went and got the oil changed to bump the power back up. Well the power went back to 514, but since i "left" the track i was now in 6th place! Well that won't do.

I did another qual-run...this time being careful to shift earlier. Occasionally the M3 would redline but i never hit the rev-limiter...and voila...after my run i still had 514 horses! Interesting.

While my car didnt' suffer permanent loss (yet) it was an eye-opener to see so much power get temporarily lost after those few minutes of qualifying. 💡

That's interesting indeed. Thanks for the info!
It's too bad I barely have time to play GT nowadays, but I really want to take some cars to the test track for a serious beating and see if I can recreate the (early) permanent power loss.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I've got a Camaro in game, which I don't abuse at ALL. 6k, shift. Why? Well, that poor 400hp LS1 DIES past 6...

560 miles, regular oil changes. The chassis is worn, but the (oil changed) engine with a level 1 NA, chip, and semi-race exhaust still makes all 401HP (395, but 400 sounds better and shows up in the settings as 406)

Seriously, at NYC I gain approx. 10mph on the straight just by short-shifting.

I've never seen power loss from my Cougar at the strip, and that's usually matting the gas and popping the front tires.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I know there are threads about permanent power loss, but I only found info on the loss by high mileage, not after 50km. Then again, I haven't done a search after I started this thread almost a year ago (!) and I haven't been here for a few months so maybe there is some more info now



That's interesting indeed. Thanks for the info!
It's too bad I barely have time to play GT nowadays, but I really want to take some cars to the test track for a serious beating and see if I can recreate the (early) permanent power loss.

Oh I see. You're talking about permanent loss after just 50k. A bit off topic but here goes: I've seen folks here saying gasoline has no effect on weight but i have a little proof it does. Again I was at the Nurb, doing the 1000 Miles! race. My car could hit about 149 mph towards the end of the long straight (before it starts to curve) with a full tank. Again and again. 149 149 149. Well the race wore on and I'm in the habit of not filling the tank when I go in for pitstops unless I absolutely have to. So my tank was now just 1/4 full.

I'm driving down that long straight again when I noticed I was now pulling 152 mph in the same spot! 💡 Tank full...back down to 149. 👍 Pretty cool.

I've got a Camaro in game, which I don't abuse at ALL. 6k, shift. Why? Well, that poor 400hp LS1 DIES past 6...

560 miles, regular oil changes. The chassis is worn, but the (oil changed) engine with a level 1 NA, chip, and semi-race exhaust still makes all 401HP (395, but 400 sounds better and shows up in the settings as 406)

Seriously, at NYC I gain approx. 10mph on the straight just by short-shifting.

I've never seen power loss from my Cougar at the strip, and that's usually matting the gas and popping the front tires.

Yeah some muscle cars (and some non-muscle cars as well) have early horsepower peaks, which means it's a bad idea just to let them redline; you won't be hitting that "swell" of power in these machines if you drive an automatic or don't shift early enough. As a side-benefit, you'll never run their engines down, too.

 

[iLex]

Oh i see. You're talking about permanent loss after just 50k.

Yes, that's the issue. I know about the permanent power loss at high mileage, but this is not like that. And it's a fact. One of my cars has lost a significant amount of bhp after only 50km.
I can't find any other explanation than the fact that it has to do with bad shifting... I was learning how to manually shift in this car (amongst others).

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yes, that's the issue. I know about the permanent power loss at high mileage, but this is not like that. And it's a fact. One of my cars has lost a significant amount of bhp after only 50km.
I can't find any other explanation than the fact that it has to do with bad shifting... I was learning how to manually shift in this car (amongst others).

'
Maybe cars have different tolerances programmed or something. Like CNG and Bobk were saying--they both drove certain cars (CNG had a couple supercars) that didn't suffer any loss...while a "normal" passenger car like my BMW did experience loss.

 

[BobK]

'
Maybe cars have different tolerances programmed or something. Like CNG and Bobk were saying--they both drove certain cars (CNG had a couple supercars) that didn't suffer any loss...while a "normal" passenger car like my BMW did experience loss.

The Ford GT I tested certainly did suffer horsepower loss. However the mileage at which the loss occurred was completely unrelated to either redlining or bouncing off the rev limiter. I still haven't located my notes from the experiment, but here's a quick summary.

I started with a factory fresh Ford GT equipped with a FC transmission and an oil change, then saved the game.

I then went to the Test Course and set the gearing so at full throttle the car would come close to, but never touch, the redline. I ran the car until the mileage began to drop, and noted the mileage. I continued until no more power was lost, meanwhile recording the mileage as I went.

I then reset the game, so the Ford Gt once again had 0 miles (but still with the oil change and FC tranny). I set the final drive so the car was continuously over the redline but not hitting the limiter, and repeated the test. Again I monitored the mileage when horsepower loss occurred.

I reset again, and this time I set the gearing so at full throttle the car was always bouncing off the rev limiter. I drove the car full throttle monitoring power loss, just like the previous two runs.

The result was the power loss occurred in all three cases at the exact same mileage. Graphing horsepower vs mileage produced identical curves. Conclusion: redlining/rev limiter had no effect on power loss; only mileage had an effect.

 

[LMCarsRule]

Does this happen at the start of a race when you hold the gas during the 3...2...1... or is it only when driving (and not shifting)