Paddy Lowe to join Mercedes

[DaxCobra]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21571627

McLaren Technical Director Paddy Lowe will step down from his position in McLaren to join Mercedes, it has been announced.

Tim Goss will replace him at McLaren.

Ross Brawn is expected to leave his position as team principal of Mercedes following their recruitment of Paddy Lowe from McLaren.

Lowe is to run the team along with new Mercedes sports boss Toto Wolff from 2014 but he will be employed by McLaren until then on 'gardening leave'.

Brawn will stay on for now but sources close to Mercedes say he will not continue in the long term.

As a Hamilton fan... I might be giggling a little bit right now.

A bit sad to see Brawn go though, but it's been 3 years now and only one race win has come from the team so something has to change.

Thoughts?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Well I think it's a good thing for mercedes and Lewis/Rosberg on the long term which I'm happy about however I think the timing is not so good.

I'm gonna ask a what if question, I know they're not that revelant but still, what if the 2014 Mercedes (made by brawn since the first Lowe car will be in 2015) is the best car of the grid. What will Mercedes and Lowe do and how uncomfortable Lowe position will be just imagine.

Anyway that's all futur talk, I think it's nice for Hamilton/Rosberg and unless Perez do really well, Mclaren dont really have a driver with the potential to win a championship at least not this year so good move for Lowe. 0

 

[DaxCobra]

Well I think it's a good thing for mercedes and Lewis/Rosberg on the long term which I'm happy about however I think the timing is not so good.

I'm gonna ask a what if question, I know they're not that revelant but still, what if the 2014 Mercedes (made by brawn since the first Lowe car will be in 2015) is the best car of the grid. What will Mercedes and Lowe do and how uncomfortable Lowe position will be just imagine.

Anyway that's all futur talk, I think it's nice for Hamilton/Rosberg and unless Perez do really well, Mclaren dont really have a driver with the potential to win a championship at least not this year so good move for Lowe. 0

Agreed on the timing, it will be 2 more years until we see a Mercedes designed by Lowe.

But as you say, McLaren now have two number two drivers IMO, neither of which are qualifying specialists in a time where qualifying seems to be rather important. I think Lowe has left because he doesn't like the way McLaren is going.

 

[astrosdude91]

Jeez, I think I'm poised to join Mercedes. Seems like they're hiring everyone under the sun!

 

[DaxCobra]

Jeez, I think I'm poised to join Mercedes. Seems like they're hiring everyone under the sun!

One thing I am worried about is that they seem to be getting a little top heavy.

You have Wolff, Lauda, Brawn (although I guess he will make way for Lowe) etc... There were even talks of Renault Lotus designer Allison moving there.

Too many cooks ruin the sauce or something.

 

[Ardius]

On F1technical.net, each team has a listing of its senior staff. So its particularly amusing when you see MercedesGP's;

Team: Bob Bell (TD), Aldo Costa (ED), Geoff Willis (Technology Director), Andrew Shovlin (CRE), Simon Cole (CTE), Ron Meadows (SD), Matthew Deane (CM), Ross Brawn (TP), Nick Fry (CEO), Toto Wolff (Exec Director), Andy Cowell (MD of powertrain)

So add Paddy Lowe to that list with yet another special job title.

How on earth can a team have any direction when you have so many senior personnel? How can anyone have any influence or make any decisions when they've got so many who also are in a position to influence?

Talk about top-heavy

 

[Akmuq]

But as you say, McLaren now have two number two drivers IMO, neither of which are qualifying specialists in a time where qualifying seems to be rather important. I think Lowe has left because he doesn't like the way McLaren is going.

You serious? It's easier to overtake now then at any stage in the past 10-15 years, and 3 wins last season does not make Button a number two driver.

 

[DaxCobra]

You serious? It's easier to overtake now then at any stage in the past 10-15 years, and 3 wins last season does not make Button a number two driver.

Qualifying has been a huge part of races more than any time in the last few years. The majority of races last season were won from the front row.

Yes 3 wins, but he was nowhere near Hamilton all season and outperformed him at about two races. Anyway that is for another thread.

 

[Centura]

Seriously, Mercedes? You need even more senior personnel?

 

[Lizard]

Brawn is staying despite new arrival.

http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/f1/lauda-confirms-brawns-place-at-mercedes

 

[Ardius]

If Mercedes fail now, who gets fired? Everyone? Feels a bit like last chance saloon for this team. Kind of like "here, have all of these resources..and more..and more..you can't possibly fail this time!".
One suspects that the secret behind Ross Brawn is the ability to convince manufacturers to spend insane resources on an F1 team to the point where it has to succeed due to sheer brute force (or should I say Brawn? ). Perhaps this team will go through another Honda-Brawn season of spending a crap load of money on a car for 2014 that will blow everyone away.

Problem is Honda did that with 3 wind-tunnel programmes. Rather than 5 technical directors.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

You serious? It's easier to overtake now then at any stage in the past 10-15 years, and 3 wins last season does not make Button a number two driver.

It's not how he perform result wise that is relevant, it's how he perform against his teammate and he did pretty badly last year. He had more tyre management problem than hamilton, couldnt find a setup that would suit him when he had trouble in practice etc..

I love Button but if he won the world championship it's because his car was way faster than anyone else in 2009 and because he was faster than his teammate. He was also really good in 2010-2011 but in 2012 he just wasnt on par with Lewis, many time he was half a second slower after qualification.

If Mercedes fail now, who gets fired? Everyone? Feels a bit like last chance saloon for this team. Kind of like "here, have all of these resources..and more..and more..you can't possibly fail this time!".
One suspects that the secret behind Ross Brawn is the ability to convince manufacturers to spend insane resources on an F1 team to the point where it has to succeed due to sheer brute force (or should I say Brawn? ). Perhaps this team will go through another Honda-Brawn season of spending a crap load of money on a car for 2014 that will blow everyone away.

Well I think they dont have many chance left, the big bosses at Mercedes want result and if they can't get it with Lewis and a totally new car and engine then I think they might say stop F1 as a team.

 

[Akmuq]

You guys gotta remember that Hamilton had a terrible 2011, and Button destroyed Alonso and Hamilton so its not a clear case of "Hamilton was McLaren's best".


Granted, if Button has the same tyre problems as last season and Perez isn't on the pace of the top teams immediately(you never know) then McLaren are screwed.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

The speculation I've seen that makes sense to me is that Lowe replaces Brawn and then thins the herd of top-end tech managers.

Do we put this down as another talented guy who couldn't at the end of the day suffer Ron Dennis?

 

[Centura]

Imagine if Mercedes fail in 2014. I imagine they will reverse their strategy if that happens and fire as many people as possible and see if they can find success that way.

 

[Wardez]

Big lol to "Button destroyed Alonso and Hamilton."

McLaren's going to do fine. I think Tim Goss will do more than well enough for them.

I love how everyone's going all out on 2014. It's weird that Brawn is staying though, wonder what he'll seep into. But anyway, Eddie Jordan: right once again. We're definitely going to start taking his rumors seriously after this latest homerun

If Mercedes fails, they'll probably pull out, then the team can be renamed "Wolff Pack Racing" which then frees Lowe and company to be able to concentrate on their own command bringing us a slew of championships from 2016 through to 2020. WOOSH.

 

[Seismica]

Big lol to "Button destroyed Alonso and Hamilton.

I'm more inclinded to lol at Rx-7 for saying that Button only won the world championship because of his faster car.

It's not how he perform result wise that is relevant, it's how he perform against his teammate and he did pretty badly last year. He had more tyre management problem than hamilton, couldnt find a setup that would suit him when he had trouble in practice etc..

I love Button but if he won the world championship it's because his car was way faster than anyone else in 2009 and because he was faster than his teammate. He was also really good in 2010-2011 but in 2012 he just wasnt on par with Lewis, many time he was half a second slower after qualification.

I don't know how many times people need to repeat this, but the world champion is almost always the guy sat in the quickest and most reliable car. I quote myself from another thread:

Having a frontrunning car underneath you is the most basic of pre-requisites to win a world championship, your point is moot. If there is an equal driver in a faster, more reliable car, you aren't going to win. Take 2004; Button finished 3rd behind the two dominant Ferraris. In 2011, Button finished comfortably in second place behind Vettel in the dominant Red Bull (If you question this, question why Webber finished ahead of Hamilton, Alonso and Massa).

Button has only had a pacesetting car for one season in his entire career (That's at a push, realistically it was only the fastest for the first half of the season). It's no coincidence that he won his one and only world championship that year. What more do you expect of him? To win championships in an inferior car?

It's worth noting that for the past 2-3 decades, the World Drivers Champion has almost always been in the quickest car (Any exceptions are highly debateable, though there is a good case for Hakkinen in the 99 season). It's extremely rare for a driver to win a championship in a car which is outclassed by another.

I do concede that Button lacks pace when the car isn't balanced and also lacks ultimate pace in qualifying relative to Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso. When the car is working underneath him he's easily one of the quickest drivers on raceday, even if he doesn't have the pace in qualifying. Plus, when was the last time Button crashed his car on raceday? The likes of Hamilton manage a couple of self-inflicted DNFs per season. I can't remember the last time Button put himself out of the race.

It should be noted that in 2012, Hamilton and Button were taken in two different setup directions. Button struggled with his setup, switched to the same direction as Hamilton and suddenly the balance and tyre wear problems were solved.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well I think it's a good thing for mercedes and Lewis/Rosberg on the long term which I'm happy about

Really? You don't think that Mercedes have too many technical directors at this point?

 

[Wardez]

I don't know, I don't exactly see how the "too many cooks spoil the broth" idea can work against them unless they all have crazy egos or something. I think it's bad that they're spending all this money, possibly sacrificing car development resources, but know one but them knows their strategy.

I don't really think you can have too many though, having each one focus on different areas of the car is extremely valuable.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'm more inclinded to lol at Rx-7 for saying that Button only won the world championship because of his faster car.

You're right. Button won the world championship because of his faster car AND because his teammate shot himself in the foot with a disastrous brake change.

 

[DaxCobra]

You're right. Button won the world championship because of his faster car AND because his teammate shot himself in the foot with a disastrous brake change.

This. 👍

You guys gotta remember that Hamilton had a terrible 2011, and Button destroyed Alonso and Hamilton so its not a clear case of "Hamilton was McLaren's best".


Granted, if Button has the same tyre problems as last season and Perez isn't on the pace of the top teams immediately(you never know) then McLaren are screwed.

2011 was Hamiltons worst year in F1, Button said that he has never driven better than he did in 2011. Both ended up with the same amount of wins. When Hamilton is on form and Button is on form, it is rare that Button comes out on top.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Looking at the points over the last 3 years of those two being teammates, it shows Button comes out on top (Although Hamilton beat him 2 - 1) but the races that they both finish, Hamilton almost always beats him.



Anyway can we get back on topic?

 

[Nessy]

Doesn't take long for a thread to descend into a Button vs Hamilton battle eh?

 

[DaxCobra]

Doesn't take long for a thread to descend into a Button vs Hamilton battle eh?

I was just thinking that haha.

 

[Nessy]

Anyway can we get back on topic?

I know. 👍

Personally i think McLaren will do just fine without Hamilton and Lowe, they still have 2 great drivers, and a good team of designers. I think it's great that Lowe will be going to Mercedes and working with Hamilton though, hopefully Mercedes as a team, will be able to improve on their 2012 season and turn things around in the next couple of years.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Really? You don't think that Mercedes have too many technical directors at this point?

Well when I wrote this up, Brawn was supposed to leave Mercedes, so Lowe would have been the main designer of the car, but yeah , they do have too many directors and it probably will cause problem even more if Brawn can make a good car in 2014.

It will all depends as well on how Wolff and Lauda will manage everything since I think they are the head of the team.

Having too many bigshots can work tho if they all work toward the same goal and not trying to step on each other foot.

 

[Seismica]

Isn't Brawn's role at Mercedes purely team principal? I don't think he has much input, if any, on the technical side of things anymore. Though I do question why they need more senior technical personnel, didn't they take on 2 people for the same position before the start of last year? IIRC they were Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis.

Providing they have some stability within the team from now until 2014 they should be good. If they keep replacing their senior personnel year on year, they won't be going anywhere and will just yo-yo in and out of the points like Toyota.

You're right. Button won the world championship because of his faster car AND because his teammate shot himself in the foot with a disastrous brake change.

Because Barrichello requires a stable car under braking in order to be fast? I can't think of any other drivers who don't perform when theres something they don't quite like about the car, none at all...

Apparently that logic can be used to explain why Button's teammate underperformed, but when it happens to Button (Early-mid 2012 for example) it's all his fault because he's rubbish. I mean, he's certainly not better than the likes of Hamilton, but it doesn't mean people can write him off for the championship either.

But anyway, enough about that. Rx-7 started it

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I like the term 'gardening leave' websites are using, in Paddy's case, he will probably take it literally as he is into his lawn mowers .

On a more serious note, this is very good news for Mercedes as they will get short-term knowledge in more detail than Lewis will be able to provide and no doubt Paddy's brain will still be ticking over thinking about next years car especially regarding Mercedes in the long term.