2017 Formula 1 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand PrixFormula 1 

I was discussing with my friend Bobert, and I brought up this point with him: Why doesn't Mclaren make it's own engine?

I'm not going to pretend I know much about F1, but in the Mclaren road cars at least and in GT3, their engines are rather bullet proof, if not the least of their concerns.

Honestly if this form of poor showings continue for another season, then maybe a split from Honda should be considered?
 
Is this gonna be the year in which Mclaren do not take a single point?

Compare Mclaren year for year here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_Grand_Prix_results

I doubt it, Alonso has shown the car can be in the fight for points, so I'm sure at some point Honda will get it right for at least one race to gain points. Also there is suppose to be another test coming up and supposedly Honda are soon to bring a revamped/new engine to their drivers.
 
NEVER thought I'd be saying this, but I miss Rosberg. Bottas is not showing signs that he will be able to deliver the mail when needed.
 
NEVER thought I'd be saying this, but I miss Rosberg. Bottas is not showing signs that he will be able to deliver the mail when needed.

Where do you guys get your stuff, I mean this isn't at you personally but over the last couple days I've seen people make from the hip comments in regards to F1. After the opposite is shown or justification is given for why things went the way they did. Not to count the fact this is only the third race.

Bottas had a tire pressure issue all race, and caused troubles that didn't allow him to maintain pace. Compare that to the first two races where he matched the leaders and at times was faster. China I'd agree with anyone that Bottas was his own enemy and did a rookie mistake that he shouldn't have. However, it's not really enough to say he can't deliver.

That'd be like say last years Champion can't deliver after he had to let Hamilton through due to an internal issue beyond his control.
 
In what sense? Do you mean compared to other motorsports, or F1's past systems? If the latter, he's a 1st place + 7th place behind Vettel - much the same under the 2003-2009 points system, where he'd actually be a 1st + 6th behind.

This has been discussed before but the current system, compared to 2003-2009, doesn't reward race winners more - it punishes 2nd instead. Which technically does make a difference if it's only a two-way title fight, but if Bottas can get in the mix then it will matter less.
F1's past systems. Like I said I just think 25 points is too much. Let's say Vettel wins the next race and Lewis get's a DNF. Boom, he just lost 25 points in one single race. In my eyes you just lose too many points for one bad race/DNF.
I'd like something like "15P/12P/9P/7P/6P/5P/4P/3P/2P/1P". I think that would make the championship closer and more interesting.
 
I doubt it, Alonso has shown the car can be in the fight for points, so I'm sure at some point Honda will get it right for at least one race to gain points. Also there is suppose to be another test coming up and supposedly Honda are soon to bring a revamped/new engine to their drivers.
This is a depressing prospect for a cooperation that is going into its fourth season.

I could understand these struggles in their first season. But in their fourth year the only team they can actually beat pacewise is the Sauber, and only just the Renault.

It's just unacceptable for a team such as McLaren. They should've been fighting for podiums at this stage. They should've stopped working with Honda after we all knew the alliance was going nowhere during 2015, and McLaren should've gone back to Mercedes engines.
 
NEVER thought I'd be saying this, but I miss Rosberg. Bottas is not showing signs that he will be able to deliver the mail when needed.

This year the cars have changed significantly, we will never know if Rosberg would perform different.

This is a depressing prospect for a cooperation that is going into its fourth season.

I could understand these struggles in their first season. But in their fourth year the only team they can actually beat pacewise is the Sauber, and only just the Renault.

It's just unacceptable for a team such as McLaren. They should've been fighting for podiums at this stage. They should've stopped working with Honda after we all knew the alliance was going nowhere during 2015, and McLaren should've gone back to Mercedes engines.

They where very quick to ditch Peugeot engines after 1994 but for some reason decided to stick with Honda. It seems Mclaren is looking back at the past, too bad Honda was different in the 80s and It´s never gonna come back.
 
This is a depressing prospect for a cooperation that is going into its fourth season.

I could understand these struggles in their first season. But in their fourth year the only team they can actually beat pacewise is the Sauber, and only just the Renault.

It's just unacceptable for a team such as McLaren. They should've been fighting for podiums at this stage. They should've stopped working with Honda after we all knew the alliance was going nowhere during 2015, and McLaren should've gone back to Mercedes engines.

Not only that but it gets more depressing that it's claimed Alonso has to Spanish media he will purposely retire the car on the last lap of GP if he isn't in the points.
 
I dodn't think Bottas had delivered on his promise even at Williams and didn't think he was a driver who could challenge in a Mercedes-Benz.

Defintion of a #2 driver to make sure Hamilton has a smoother time this year.
 
Not only that but it gets more depressing that it's claimed Alonso has to Spanish media he will purposely retire the car on the last lap of GP if he isn't in the points.

Well, he's a bit of a drama queen, isn't he?

I can absolutely understand his frustration with the engine and it's overall performance, but the constant complaints over the radio and these kinds of remarks to the press/public eye are quite honestly immature and unprofessional.

The engineers are very much aware of the fact that the engine is not up to snuff and down on power and that their overall reliability and position in general are far from ideal, so there's absolutely no reason to keep bringing the morale down and keep beating a dead horse by constantly exclaiming the disadvantages and frustrations by the Honda powerplant, and let's face it: The only the reason why the McHonda isn't competitive is because of the PU from Honda, not the chassis. Of course, for a 2-time champion, you may expect something else, especially after the development time of 2 seasons now. But a driver like Alonso is also capable to find a seat somewhere else, since his name does carry quite a bit of weight in the league, but he didn't.

I personally wish and hope that Honda will find some needed power and especially reliability in the PU, like they've (roughly) did in the second half of last season to at least compete decently with the midfield. Vandoorne and especially Alonso, as he has shown in all three races, are certainly capable to fight for points as long as the car functions properly, and hey: This time around there were only 3 (?) rounds till checkered flag, so maybe, just maybe we'll finally see a McHonda finish in Russia, maybe even inside the points.

I dodn't think Bottas had delivered on his promise even at Williams and didn't think he was a driver who could challenge in a Mercedes-Benz.

Defintion of a #2 driver to make sure Hamilton has a smoother time this year.

As of right now, yes. Which is quite unfortunate to be honest, I certainly feel like that Bottas has the caliber to actually become a #1 driver, but at the end I feel like he suffers from the Ralf Schumacher, David Coulthart, Eddie Irvine, Mark Webber, etc. - Syndrome. He's an incredibly capable driver, with the actual potential of become WDC, but never actually getting the team behind him to support him 100%. The call today (in my opinion) came way too early today to let Hamilton by, actually showing that Hamilton still is (by far) the #1 driver, which I just think is absolutely sad.

I personally think that especially teams like RBR have found a nice balance in actually supporting the guy that is quicker in that race/phase of the race without really promoting or demoting anybody to be the second driver, but at the end of the day, not every team really has a line up of such evenly matched drivers.
 
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I was discussing with my friend Bobert, and I brought up this point with him: Why doesn't Mclaren make it's own engine?

I'm not going to pretend I know much about F1, but in the Mclaren road cars at least and in GT3, their engines are rather bullet proof, if not the least of their concerns.

Honestly if this form of poor showings continue for another season, then maybe a split from Honda should be considered?

McLaren has plenty of options for engines. They are more than capable of bringing it in house.
They are setting up a working partnership with BMW for road car engines.
Both Honda engines have been developed to mimic the latest Mercedes packaging (so the Merc engine package should be a close fit in the chassis) and the rules state that if left without an engine supplier, one of the manufacturers must provide one.

McLarens biggest issue lies with funds and contract arrangements. They are a long way from the powerhouse they were as the Mercedes works team. Chances are Honda are funding the team and have a watertight contract with a very very expensive release clause.
 
F1's past systems. Like I said I just think 25 points is too much.

But then the points for a win in the past was also too much. The larger numbers are misleading, scale it so the amount for a win is fixed and it becomes clearer:

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Most places are worth pretty much the same, with the exception of 2nd which is worth noticeably less. In a certain way a win is worth more now - particularly when for the past few seasons we've had 2 drivers finish 1st and 2nd almost all the time - but really it was 2nd place that was made to suffer. A win compared to 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th are almost identical. If Bottas can get in the mix and him, Lewis and Seb are trading podium/top-5 places often, then the title race has the potential to be as close as it would have been with the old system.

Having said all that, I'm not at all against a system where the gaps between the top positions are smaller than either now or the past, like you suggest. It's hard to judge what would be the "best" system though. There's different pros and cons for all of them. Unless F1 decided to go full NASCAR............the reaction from the diehard fans would be something to behold at least. :P

it wouldn't punish you as hard if you have a race where your car or team fails you.

This works both ways though - any system that stops the winners from pulling away, can also make it more difficult for others to catch up. So say Hamilton is a race win behind Vettel, but then for the next few races he finishes 1st with Vettel 2nd. With your system it would take Lewis 5 races to draw level again..........currently it would only take him 4 races.

IMO DNFs being punishing isn't so much a problem of the points system, but more that the top teams are usually very reliable, and consistently ahead of everyone else. A DNF would be punishing if you know your rival is pretty much guaranteed podium finishes for most of the season...........a more competitive grid would go great lengths towards mitigating this.
 
I was discussing with my friend Bobert, and I brought up this point with him: Why doesn't Mclaren make it's own engine?

If billion dollar companies like Honda, Renault and Ferrari have struggled to make a competitive PU and they have been making engines for a very long time, there's no reason to think McLaren who have never made an engine in F1, could do it anytime soon, much less get it right.

That said I feel bad for Alonso. The McLaren is on another level to the cars it is scrapping with. Alonso drives rings around them in the corners, but loses a hundred metres on them each straight. The engine is detuned and still failing. They're right back to 2015.
 
I think we all knew McLaren was going to be bad this year, but this is pretty shocking. Would it be appropriate (or some breech of sponsorship/FIA contract) if they took a half-season technical sabbatical and simply said "look, we need to get the car sorted". Has a team in Formula 1 ever pulled out mid-season and returned a following season? (outside of being bankrupt, say).

I feel like McLaren is just throwing money away at each race. They said they had a new round of innovations that may be ready for Canada - should/could they just pull out until then?
 
I think we all knew McLaren was going to be bad this year, but this is pretty shocking. Would it be appropriate (or some breech of sponsorship/FIA contract) if they took a half-season technical sabbatical and simply said "look, we need to get the car sorted". Has a team in Formula 1 ever pulled out mid-season and returned a following season? (outside of being bankrupt, say).

I feel like McLaren is just throwing money away at each race. They said they had a new round of innovations that may be ready for Canada - should/could they just pull out until then?

No we didn't, they were generally building this season up as redemption for the fans. No one could suspect that Honda would crap the bed again.

Edit: I would've loved to see what Rosberg could do with the new cars, a 3 horse race is better than a two horse race.
 
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I think we all knew McLaren was going to be bad this year, but this is pretty shocking. Would it be appropriate (or some breech of sponsorship/FIA contract) if they took a half-season technical sabbatical and simply said "look, we need to get the car sorted". Has a team in Formula 1 ever pulled out mid-season and returned a following season? (outside of being bankrupt, say).

I feel like McLaren is just throwing money away at each race. They said they had a new round of innovations that may be ready for Canada - should/could they just pull out until then?
They learn a lot more doing the races than doing nothing at all. They have contractual and sponsor obligations as well.

McLaren taking time off wouldn't help Honda make a better engine any quicker, the car itself is actually quite fine.
 
Best race of the season so far. Lots of great action and great passes and a solid battle up the front for the win.

But for me, more disappointment with McLaren once again having a double retirement, makes it worse when one of the cars didn't even start the race. That means, a McLaren-Honda has only finished once in the three rounds of racing. Given that there's two cars, that makes it a dismal 1 out 6 in terms of finshes. That's a 16.66% finishing rate. That's just unacceptable. Whatever Honda has in store in terms of this engine upgrade better be good otherwise it's well and truly crisis time for McLaren-Honda. I feel horrible for both Vandoorne and Alonso. Two supremely talented drivers being wasted having to haul around a literal garbage fire of an engine in a McLaren chasis that seems to be quite good.
 
Nice back-and-forth for Ferrari and Mercedes. Fun stuff. Slightly better than Rosberg v Hamilton seemingly every race weekend.

I'm embarrassed for McLaren / Honda. Zero points... ugh. Here's hoping things pick up soon.
 
Toto admitted the pump failed on the grid and they couldn't drop the pressure in Bottas' tyres.
I have a mechanical gauge the lets air out of tyres and tells you how much is left. Fits in your pocket too.

#conspiracy theory?#
I don't think he was supposed to beat Lewis in qualy...so the team "fixed" it.
Sounds like Mercedes have already made him a number 2....
 
Toto admitted the pump failed on the grid and they couldn't drop the pressure in Bottas' tyres.
I have a mechanical gauge the lets air out of tyres and tells you how much is left. Fits in your pocket too.

#conspiracy theory?#
I don't think he was supposed to beat Lewis in qualy...so the team "fixed" it.
Sounds like Mercedes have already made him a number 2....

I don't believe that, cause if they sabotage him they can't assure he'll finish runner up even or ahead of the second Ferrari. They probably think he is better than the other Finn but can't safely guarantee it especially after China. So they wouldn't compromise him just for Lewis. Mercedes isn't Ferrari, the WCC is more important that WDC

I know that this is a conspiracy but I like to try and shut that kind of stuff down with reason before it gets massive. Though considering this is GTP and not Reddit, we're usually better about not letting conspiracies get traction. I think yet again it's just a goofy failure on Mercedes end like so many thing in the past years with them.
 
I can wrap my head around that for the start, but what about the tires they put on when he pits? They have control over those tires before they go on the car, right? Like if a driver complains about tire pressure and when he pits they give him tires set with slightly different pressure? Just like how they do minor tweaks to aero?
 
Ok that was a bit irresponsible, I wasn't totally convinced myself, but I saw it as I wrote the first 2 lines. :P
The sabotaging from the inside is unthinkable, although it was a blatantly weak explaination from Toto to say they couldn't do anything about the tyres on the grid.
Valtteri said it was very strange that the balance was gone from qualy to the race...but hey these cars are very susceptible to minor changes.
 
Who was voted as the driver of the day? I believe Perez drove a monster race :cheers:

I voted for Perez. Thought Grosjean deserved credit too.

Ok that was a bit irresponsible, I wasn't totally convinced myself, but I saw it as I wrote the first 2 lines. :P
The sabotaging from the inside is unthinkable, although it was a blatantly weak explaination from Toto to say they couldn't do anything about the tyres on the grid.
Valtteri said it was very strange that the balance was gone from qualy to the race...but hey these cars are very susceptible to minor changes.

Not really, if the method is pre-approved by Pirelli and the FIA, then simply taking out your pocket gauge which isn't even as sophisticated, would probably be frowned upon. Especially if the tires come in under pressure, and your argument to the FIA is "well we were forced to use Bob's pocket gauge instead of our multi thousand dollar pump and gauge"

To me this isn't at all surprising the most over engineered teams in a race series, and they suffer from the most trivial of things to you and me. All because they're overly engineered in the first place.
 
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